and I had to teach sociology at Columbia University hear my first book was on the politics of looking women in Britain and pleasing which is where to find a reason I'm here or do I just finished on health-care policy Britain and Canada I'm lost and I teach history here tomorrow noon for stage when I guess that's one way from 9 p.m. also put up the volume headed to Boston in Swedish however wishes on the current debate they are over Civil Society versus the public sector which part of the date bars from the USyou're welcome her to the session on your about delighted that there was a question about the other countries so this morning and I managed to get that proof the quick answer which incorporate later than I thought we would do if that I'll start and just give you a few remarks very general overview remark about what the situation is like in in Europe, with regard to family coffee and then boss will pay something go get more details about the country's an issue areas that too but he knows about first I want to start with the idea that most of the European countries the time that we are interested in and start with the ones that lost and I know most about what it's called Social Democratic you out there todayand that's to be distinguished from what the United States is in Britain and that is liberal Democratic welfare states we're all welfare states there's no known welfare state and defense anymore in this set of countries called the advanced industrial societies but the big difference is that in the European social democracy two things are going on first of all as we know those government send a lot more on social programs and what that means is that those governments also are very reactive and proactive and social program and in their intervention in the economy in general but the other point that is closely related especially with that ladder point is that organized labor is very important in the development of social policies in the European social democracy why did that Europe has been able to develop the kind of policies that they have if her focusing then just on family policy if you know what what I want to be able to say is that there isn't a separate legal category call Family policy or welfare to the same extent as there is in the United States and Europe family policy is very much embedded in a whole next is about equality and they include on the one hand cause I have to do with education and housing and Healthcare but as important as such as I think more importantly on the other hand family policies have to do with policies that are connected with work and workers interest and that include income and income supplementation and other kinds of policy that have to do this look so that's the main ideas go a long way in explaining their the questions raised this morning if then why did that they could do it and we can't and also well let me just start with a few facts first of all with the idea of women and work the latest oecd figures that I've been able to find doodoo show that as far as work goes do you guys not that different from your we had a lot of women working out of jail what does the macro figures show that if you look at just women aged 15 to 64 years of age about 70% of these women work in the United States about 74% in Sweden Sweden every once awhile because of the way at the top of all these are figure and if you look at the the rate for mothers with children under 18 that 67% of This Woman's Work in the United States in about 90% And I'm not going to take too much of it with a woman's work with regard to things like an team against cremation legislation and Insulin but one area of the resort that I think is important for family policy is the area of equal pay for equal work to call we all still generally use that phrase but the fact is that in Sweden and other European countries especially now other European countries take it more seriously because of what's happening with the year the idea of of if I can take comprable work has gone much further is the figures are not as revealing the latest want that I've been able to get a notice revealing as I'd like to be able to ride to show elevation in order to get these probably figures you have to do a lot of detail analysis but the figures to show that in the US with a full-time case for working women as the proportion of men's if it's now at about 74% but in most of the European countries it's a well over 80% and it is still a long way and saying something about what income mean for a work in the European country and of obviously this is the policy area that Labor organized labor has been very involved in developing something else about women and work that I think is it important in the difference between Europe and and United States anytime this idea up part time work there are many more women in Europe than in the United States that were part time when we say part time work at it is but we generally mean is women who work under 35 hours a week and then that person but nevertheless they count count it as part time but tell him again this is this this is going to be a policy is particularly focused on family color are related because it is with children that are going to work part-time here is one policy area and I'll try to note it a few more where there is as much debate in Europe as it is in the United States about all the invitations of working part time at the idea that what does it mean for gender roles on what does it mean for women's ties to the labor market and so on yeah I want to say these things whenever I can because it will be in in the United States look at your weekend to put on these roads are glasses to relieve Arch fire dies and and sometimes is Justified in doing so but at the same time it's not always warranted there are debates on this traditionalism in Europe you know, I'm just as there is here but this is one area part-time word where there is a value but they're two policies that are important in that support part time work in Europe when is Parental leave and the other is a laborer protection legislation Nu Look Like I said that you were right to work part-time at is considered to be part of a family policy and and to support that parents do have a very generous leave policies no matter who they are and the primary caretaker can take quite a bit of time off work at berries as to whether or not it's a one year and some countries of three years and other countries in some countries there is the possibility or taking time at 6 months at the beginning and then using the rest of your your right over the course of several years as a child grows up these are variations that are a very interesting and important and the other side of this parental leave it with that that that . most countries Approximately 80% of the income if it's guaranteed but actually it's not in those countries and only a few countries but 80% of income is guaranteed and in most countries there is a flat minimum allowance them that that is given but but parents aren't going to lose a whole lot of the internet they do in the United States that they take part time but but I think more importantly is that parents in Europe know that they are going to get their jobs back is that income for that Employment Security that is very important that comes to loans are parental leave however another problem with part-time and parental leave part-time workers Grandpa leave in a tiara is that as in the United States it is taken mostly by women Sweden is the outlier in this regard any other times we wanted to talk about Sweden because so much is going on but it is unusual in a lot of things going on with the area it is a case that is sweet about 25% of men now take parental leave. For sure. this is one issue area that it would be interesting to watch as time goes on because there's there's there's a lot of contention the part time work one attention at all that I'll mention with regard to the European Union which is the forming a social contract such a charter rather for its member countries and the idea to try to stand it odd number of the policy area we just simply don't know which one did he respond to Ariel Under the Sea Level and other countries like Sweden so that's parental bees and the importance of a part-time work a lot of women in in Europe do work part-time and take advantage of you another very important called the area that supports women's work and that is very much a part of family policy in Europe is daycare for children you probably know that the most advanced countries are France and Sweden in this regard public Vision system East countries are most of the Care is in public daycare centers but I think it's time fascinating that both of these countries have developed a very good Home Care Program as well and they developed these by employing women who work in their own homes but these women are under public regulations and they're paid by the government and therefore they are eligible for all the government benefits time off and working all the rest of the rights that workers have most of the countries do have primarily public care but I do want to mention something else about these developments in in in Europe where the public and private sectors are going to get in 1 C in the daycare more than the sum of the areas where the government encourages the private sector to be a provider in the area and encourages it by giving various kinds of a subsidies to parents or tax credits to parents so that they can use public or private facility so that their the facilities are necessary only in the public sector but the public sector is involved in supporting the private sector and of course their tax credit communities so when I'm going to be on that show you are going to have the United States well Lisa features and and more of what family policy is in your van and gets family policy that supports women Woman's Work I think take a very special significance in the in the in the case of an issue area was focused on this morning to get our policies that have to do with single mothers before the most part on tour I'd like to suggest that this issue area welfare mom as we know it doesn't exist in Europe it in there on top of countries that are at exceptions Britain is an exception too much of what I'm actually saying today which is much more like the United States and it been fiddling students working and it it's the relatively low benefit rates with regard to welfare there's one other kind of exception of 1814 American dollars focus on his other kind of exception countries like the Netherlands where there is a great deal of criticism because of income support in in the benevolent considered by some to be too generous and too easy to get so that what tends to happen is that young people are supported by the government and these tend to be young people who choose not to work or work in what we might call unproductive job. That you can the art and this is a problem becoming more of a problem, but I think that those are exceptions to the overall picture of what we call walk there is like in in European country most policies for poor single women in Europe to be distinguished from Whole Foods in in the United States in public characteristics in particular. It states tend to identify a group of persons who have special problem and we isolate what happens with this group from other developments are there other developers that have to do with wings work or other than elements that have to do with social policy that is precisely not the case in Europe in the European countries whose policies for pushing women are integrated into the whole gamut of other cancer policies on the one hand policies that are for low-income families. General on the one hand and policies that have to do with working women on the other one just a little bit about these the first feed the integration of policies for poor single women into policy for low income families is usually achieved through Universal kind of a program that has to do with child allowances for example of and every every country in Europe don't have a universal program a child allowances and within this Universal program there will be some supplements for low income parents and then within that supplement there is a another supplement additional supplement for single women for the most part a single parent what I want to run and precise about this is that the universal framework is what makes for a normalization if you don't any of the particular category again that the distinction is that we identify that group and put them outside of the big policy area and we can you get the special selective measures for that group of women that we say we call this target the problem is that targeting becomes isolation separation targeting the only works well to find me when you've got this biggest I program you can so we don't we can't find you because we don't have the bigger I've been taking some recipients Europe but the whole situation is much more normalized, because of the young again either bring them I'll just have them look negative note there are some especially now with the economic strength and many other European countries there are some policymakers that would like to look at that on these child allowances because they they do tend to be regressive in that if any amount is given to a wealthy family that support for me. Some of that approach that is costly but they are they are considered to be anytime by most people and am I'm not sure what they are going to need every touch her back another issue that will be important to watch as your tries to will come to terms with the economic concern will probably the most important feature of both any property and family policy in Europe for me is their clothes and systematic linked with employment policies there are a few countries in Europe Germany has won Germany has very strong journalist values of the Orca say more about this there are few countries in Europe which women are given the choice of two words are not as we do this phone had done for a long time with the afdc in the United States but for the most part this is not a choice the judge says you know I said before that there is a set of a universal framework Summit everybody does the same thing this occurs with regard to the area of work as well it is it is assumed that women are going to work and poor we're not going to work just like you when you were single mothers are going to work just as married mothers are going to work it is those countries that have a higher employment rates for women that this kind of attention can just to run to make the contrast remember I said it would be getting in the United States we have high employment rate for women to but we don't make this assumption two-year lease an extent report they will come in there and it's all either well and it shouldn't work or else now they have to do and it's just this kind of of Separation segregation of her fate that is so very different from the more integrative framework within which are considered an imminent in Europe the batch of women working and poor women working at for single women working in Europe is facilitated by very active labor market policy it isn't anything like what we thought in the United States labor market Harvey Park for everyone in most of the European countries AAA pay consists of the gamut of programs such as a public employment agencies there are a lot of them are set up on every young man in every District there's no public employment agency where there is a job skill Matt Shane going on counseling going on but most importantly very big programs for training and retraining for everybody again I guess he wanted to emphasize that it's for everybody and then within that Universe afraid of corrective measures for pushing on women the important of these are activating Market programs in most of European countries where they can't be overemphasized a and an end to a point where show me the European countries spend more on these active labor market programs than they do on unemployment insurance that was criticism because for some some some people consider these activated Market programs to be a form of unemployment insurance but I think it's money that is spent and then the other and indeed to do the job well it is if it's important to spend a lot of money on these kinds of program it's not me you better keep in mind as we try to develop no more work orientation welfare reform now it is on the other side of the coin has you know employment has increased tremendously in Europe in these last several years but we've noticed a couple of things first of all the unemployment rate for women are not any worse than they are for men in European countries that especially in those countries where women employment is high chair cover countries such as France and Italy and Nazi Germany as well wear women's employment rate for a relatively low and it's in those countries where unemployment rate for men and not just snow indicate that are expected to work they were integrated but the other one I want she went out with regard to unemployment in in European countries at the United States to see what we're doing about unemployment to the situation in our rates look wonderful tonight and they are sizing us up for Market orientation and so on but I'm trying to keep track of this and I have noticed that they're sizing us up but I'm not sure they're going to do it there continues to be a lot of expenditure for labor market program active labor market programs in the European countries and it is still considered that the best way of tackling unemployment but there's other things that need to come into the picture that that really take this issue a family part of the outsider another area but I I have to sound for it is if somebody said this this morning it's the economy stupid that family calls me all about your try to understand why it is that there is a problem with jobs in the changing nature of job then but Europe is more able to think about industrial policy can you do that is until I feel a little bit more hopeful that that that they're going to they're going to be the bigger picture and be able to make the transition of the level of work. There are albums that are developing a sure employers complain that they have been held back by the high cost of them and they're cut their contributions to these various programs and so the government are reducing the cost to employers trying to increase employee flexibility so long and it will see the kind of tinkering but I think the general sense of the importance of active labor market programs to retrain trying to keep people in BO2 with changing the economy will help again I'm like in the united states in the United States the only country on the market training program in these last few years well I am I find it to him very interesting that but which way which European countries spend money on these various Cove and they spend a lot of money on the early stages of pocket and dependent and what temperature did you take care of a figure is that overtime your visit near that kind of has been left on any property for rent because he will become it takes a lot at the beginning a lot of fun of expenditure you have to think I'll just finish your as an investment for the future as a European countries do in the United States the poverty rate before you even think about what happened with the government program to poverty rate is hired a band in European countries and then after you take into account the effect of these government program there is much more to change dependents in the United States than in your throat because of the type of expenditure the early stages of those as well. I'll just close by saying is give me this one figured that I just turned heard the other day we have 21.5% of our children in the United States living in poverty it's a Dupree used to be over 25% let's be happy same time we have now a decreased but never left our mortality rate is 9 of 1000 of a wonderful decrease but it's hard to call me right goes the next highest country is Canada at 13.5% this is embarrassing for such a rich country of ours to attend. Just to put together some of these ideas I just want to go back to what I was saying at the beginning why I hope you were able to do with it has been because of the collectivity of interest that has been able to be developed by organized labor that has promoted family policy is a part of workers in your attic. Kind of an emphasis on group and the economy. All these separate things are different but family far from under consideration when a little longer that I should have apologized but he turned around too long to do that and then we'll finish talking maybe I can make up some time many other says source of inspiration in her for a really good book on comparing England or Britain I should say in Sweden if it's more than I and many others also referred too costly for yourself and then I will try to continue and place my discussion little bit within what you've already heard which which gives a good broad overview and I would I would talk but thinking about Sweden or to reach a certain level of specificity is also quite the case of Sweden has been until this a three or four years ago how about this is as a model has a hold him big literature on that and just start by by noting and I'll just leave you some some observations from an American critics of the wealth or what the plan to be what is good about it on here tonight to Sociology Stayton Papa know who he is working its not too far from here just down the street and then that's what's up baby but anyway p.m. he wrote a book on family policy in general when he was in a comparing family policy in various countries it's called disturbing The Nest is already there and gives you said something directions to Sweden on the Swedish family he knows that a waning social institution the family of the further and Sweden the internet and the other Western industrialized country advances the family to clients and of course he is coming very much from an American family values on perspective however he makes it in own observation here and I'll call him again with just you know it history of course alarming but unless correct he he says Swedish family is almost exclusively concerned with the situation of the individual family member and indeed it goes on the welfare state single-minded pursuit of egalitarianism amounts nothing less than he puts it packed between the individual and a welfare bureaucracy that excludes the family you now this is a position for me this station which is in fact not I won't be incorrect and we want to take me or know that's right because there's no disagreement between some of my views of what constitutes that good Society refused terminology that that we m i often use here in the US and in fact some Swedish on Experian family Polly how do we want to understand that it really revolves around something that has little dramatic you one of my call to Swedish theory of love by that I mean that in the ocean that eat primary organizing value needs to be that of autonomy and Independence of a person with my Thursday before having any kind of healthy relationship you have to be at one with an autonomous that takes on the concrete forms money so that it before you can have a healthy relationship within a family then individual family members first of all have to be independent of each other each other because the husband and wife and children now this is a value Which Wich on I would argue that she is very deeply rooted in Swedish culture is Canadian a lot of what I'm saying the clarity I'll just use the switch case at the values of Independence are in that says not products of the welfare state is some you know service would would argue that is the result of Arizona state is pollicis but they appear to be much more deeply rooted I revolves around an old suspicions of a privilege by Swedish democracy that says they're different from US democracy in that is not based on a generalization of what used to be the gentlemanly Privileges you think about human rights are really an extension of the rights of the Nobles in Erskine in case you really talk Universal station of the of The Local Peasant Connie privilege indifference write a relative homogeneity and that then these two together has meant that Swedish family policy social policy General from the very beginning emphasized that has Mary was suggested Universal types of them there was some of your family with a mirror dolls who were toying around you know with social engineering like thought of you know the station have a role in the NFL ordering people around but that never really materialized would materialise was a different type of social policy which which one time formulated instead they decided to to give the people cashing and leave them alone and that then was linked to exactly what you were talking about it for the line of any kind of attempt at ascertaining mean so you don't have social workers running around asking people you know do you have mad house to make do make so much money there I want to introduce an infestation which which way which didn't come in early in the earlier discussion at Mary baby that is sick the liberal Democratic mall last one crucial in a different site but we have to really major models and one is the Social Democratic one Scandinavia the other one is what they call the Christian Democratic Germany France but also where to place a much greater will come by that I referred to in concrete terms on the receiving end the family but and on the giving and we talked to you about it DSHS of companies like private insurance companies for sale much more mixed economy this state is space but then The Family Place much longer now there is no such thing as being taxed together is only individual taxation student loans the same thing that you're a woman and you want to go back to work I mean to school used to be that your your husband's income was take me to the time you have this problem in the u.s. today you have a husband and make some money then you can't get a loan from the government but I do have to go talk to your husband about your husband may feel that this is not really important right in any Swedish case the other than spouse is not taking into account goes back to his notion right Swedish theory of love that was referring to earlier that is different if you look at where family members are expected to fully and I take responsibility for each other which includes the other family members have responsibilities Legal Assistant that you that you see in Princeton area so I think it is it is it going to the first principle of the Swedish word for Primacy a personal time and it struck me this morning went when I was listening to it to call edel Brick talked about the question of locating the family with it at least helpful disorder try to decide on that there are many different kinds of family right because you're still stuck in on the same problematic rather the radical solution would be the sacred and direct your attention to the individual individuals are engaged I wrecked in the social contract that questions like sexual preference in a race gender all of that is de facto taken care of and Andres you don't need to get engaged in complicated form of politics of identity of the sea Old Dominion in the u.s. left wing the right is right here but we have to promote Community we have to promote a family's right it's just that we don't want to promote it but try to solve that level of policy is it's probably not the easiest thing to do took one look at the developers find Family policy vented in Sweden what we see is very much wood would when Mary was telling you before that is a say that the right to understand Swedish family policies is Thoroughly in the context of Labor Market policies that is to say there was a moment in the 1960s 70s when there was a great need for labor some of that the man was met by immigrant labor but the major Discovery was that women power as in a resource in the end in the labor market and in order to have women working and have to have daycare that's what you be finding out in the US now didn't famous descansen program for something like what are they doing they're they're supposed to say money they're spending a plural nouns because they discover if you want for women to work you got to deal with it with daycare right now isn't what I wanted to be under the guise of some kind of ant well first thing was there any of doing the sconces recreating this week as well for steak know which is a very interesting curious Paradox right now they may not to go on my phone so that might be why it's interesting being that the party of the man working plants towards really workers in general and in fact you see a shift of support so a lot more women start support social democracy which experiment still the case today the labor market participation on income rates if I'm half the Swedish government right now Social Democratic representation in there but first irony is that this is not the result of feminist politics rather is a feminist issue we did not become controversial embedded within a broader program ultimately rooted in this primary value baton Independence and work on it but you have to work for a man is Swedish hard to get money for nothing but sweets tend to be like American conservatives and that's insane that you know you're not going to get anything unless you produce and that means he do you work for your unit training program so you know the kind of free money that you have more in Catholic models but so in that sense Swedish Swedish social Democrats and American conservatives have something in common when it comes to this be a patient with work as the only source of meaning in life when is the kind of limitation of speech culture I would argue as well so where have we ended up with his in in in from the point of view of women first in Sweden today there is only one hand clearly the situation where women have gained as as one East German of them days was told me at least remorse is most similar to this week we got the money to throw the Rascals out right so there was a crisis in American situation but you you know you could make that decision right because there was no longer the dependency on pain man but at the same time is that part time they tend to work in the public sector they're very poorly represented in the private sector especially at higher levels so what we see is an interesting difference between Swedish and an American feminism that is it say The Swedish famine ISM senses and better than social democracy has served I would argue but poor middle-class lower middle-class women very very well write the date the women who would not be aspiring for for jobs high up at any rate okay there have done very well by this morning on the other hand it's astounding fact that this business Social Democratic type of feminismDouble Jeopardy right now that is a they are overwhelmingly employed within the public sector right-handed carrying business nurses teachers to traditional women's job if you if you if I may say so depending on the public sector for service-related going to the families in various ways why do to help out with rent a battery of programs that that that are related to this and hear it when you have high unemployment right which is new thing as we can until three four years ago there wasand Devon ability Works in are you may lose your job right but after you lose your job that means that they're also less they care because that's what's going on you're coming down and got all kinds of potential problems where women are much more vulnerable men were involved working for a what is it a vibrant part of the economy which is said the export-oriented Private Industry so that's one thing but you know we can get back to discussion to explain disparities in labor markets Oley by reference to discrimination glass ceilings male dominance so forth you know 20 30 40 years really a very very gently pull education so for the someone and then neglected area which is women's power and women's interests are to hold on to power in the domestic sphere particular in their reluctance to share power it in within the family setting itself Eddie the unequal figures that he talked about when it comes to bread to leave for example I don't know man or taking on more and more but they're doing is not an easy way to his name is actually a whole new interesting area of struggle you know gender of struggle going on here and what we see is the evidence suggests that is not just merely a matter of Officer men being unwilling to take apart within the family and listen to kids but there's also a regular on the willingness on the part of women to cede power my dear and Seed a benefit life differently at the same time in India economy of March right so there's a relationship there which I would already cannot explain just merely with with them and by reference to 22 yards through the traditional model like I'm looking at discrimination is important and then it is a discovery that they write for the first time dealing with with the kind of another former glass ceiling when men divorce rates are like here store near Lehigh my part because of his butt on it which makes it easy but so you have a lot of cases of what do you do with the kids but he is only for men honey full access but if I see that controls the investigation you know is Thoroughly dominated by women right who are you get the public sector right and it kind of a default judgment in favor of women are when it comes to at who gets the kids but and there is an emerging struggle there on a kind of the basis for men's movement it's going to be that which is rather different from the mess. He has his kind of you know the Robert light kind of variety of finding your you know your masculinity whatever the children the lights in Alton's trying to leave and it's an inch of State individual contact doesn't apply absolutely because I believe it I should give it to the spouses together in one little provision that is that the least one month has to be taken by the parent that doesn't take the other way she has been translated into a diadema okay so you know I am a friend of mine it was not his story man with with three kids we wrote an article which was very first response in dog is near that was why don't we just say that 9 months apart for the for the father and 9 months for the mother okay and no discussion that was all to problems it would provide equality within the family and will stop this idea that women are unreliable and please try to serve the cause of gender equality you know I couldn't we argue against that kind of a mythology of of a female virtue of particular you know capacity on the part of women and so forth right so it turned out to be very responsible for this reason but isn't interesting that are buddy-buddy new debate I think it's going to be that where where you know it's hard to recognize that he or Force but it but I think it for those of you went to to to kind of look down so and I think I was stumped there I mean I have a things but I mean it would be nice I think you have some time for questions and discussion so I think I'll just shut up stop being passive expiration immigration and that's one thing that affects. A broker the cracking down more so you know what this is something I found interesting was in Sweden in the early days I think Swedish immigration policy was actually rather tight and it was precise date for the reason of understanding that if immigrants come into the country etcetera they will take up more public expenditure and so on and demand Freedom decided to look for when there was a demand for labor decided to it look more at the indigenous population than women to fulfill that demand of course it was a demand that that Swedish wound if he'll feel better because it was a demand for expansion in the public sector and so on and then Swedish policy immigration policy did open up somewhat but I think all over Europe now what we are seeing is the Crackdown a lot more as in the United States and in this is one area in which I don't think there is a whole lot of difference then what are you doing on just make that very just I mean I think that there is a really interesting problem here in Europe and when did we have to remember right is that the welfare state is an intensely National social contract social contract in u.s. is what some idea of what the democracy is like really you know being questioned and we can swim and of course the point of arable with with with all of his anti-immigration feelings but let's face it right we are blind if we don't recognize that there are limits to how attenuated you can make community and still make people feel like they wanted to take part in the social contract so this is a real big problem and it's not in any directions well because what Visual Voice Canadian states is it that's the welfare mothers and he's not as your numbers but that's the key part time indeed it was like a black and a city nursing mother so the whole issue of race and frost African American curly the Nerdist what to know when traveling Europe when you make it to the church you know injuring to be black tight different groups for that whole racial issue I think I just want to get as a comment on that and I was also thinking about the the anglo-american situation cuz I think they're too and I was curious as to when weather UK has always been thought to be Social Democrat was about of no statute ain't never been to talk about her pistachio Cena was at the model initially is a model initially of the beverage plan running a little bit more Britain's welfare state is really just focus on the Healthcare System the NHS is the only true welfare state program in any and every other way it is like the u.s. immigration raids is one in particular that I think it is important in this in this regard when I said before it would put on Rosy glasses when we look at it at your own this is one area where I think the kinds of tensions and problems are just the same in Europe at the United States be there at the same time of separation desegregated stigmatisation and some of that going on you're the only difference isn't it is to try to get you to see whether or not they are a severe in their consequences we both of these processes of differentiation and integration are going on all the time everywhere and and and so the the the the point is to try to see whether the consequences are as intense in Europe and what else happens in your try to minimize the consequences of differentiation stigmatisation cuz you're going to have so many more internet and now the control of her so if you look at it might have to be like I was telling Mr I mean that is 1 you disable the consequences of a country is going to be I guess proportionally it'll be the same it's just going to be so much more we are here because there's so many more than his and also because this is a very gracious I'm not sure why but let me try this very abstract way of putting that I figured you in this in this regard that all of these differentiation are exacerbated when you got primarily a market basis for social organization and what you said is that we don't content control at to know that's that's the way Americans say violation. Are we allowed to Market to be the determinant of whatever is going on and in that kind of a of a social system that exacerbates when you got a political system where government doesn't agree more does take more than had any more likely to find that it's the market you know Thursday is the one thing I want to see what your future is great it is actually disappointed his problem here in migration during the numbers for doable B they were jobs so after generation these have been specifically mentioned they don't have is a politics of difference it was once that is being introduced into the case and everything begins to fall apart because assimilation is has been given someone comes to your country then it's no no discussion about the fact they have to you know learning language and adopt the culture go to the public schools making swedes out of not peasants but out of immigrants now you have a different kind of dry cleaning of groups right then things get very much more complicated then I'm not so sure that the traditional assimilation is Solutions right will be very cooperative and is not clear you know what's there when I am I do if I may just want to say kind of broccoli what I see happening is I would say that we are much more likely just wanted to sit here and try to did mice American society think what we going to see in Europe is Americanization and I don't see any organization of America this is a terrible thing to say it doesn't mean we should think about the broad secular Trend certainly are not in that direction actually that's that's what the then you end up by saying we're not going to we're not going to be like that here is even worse even worse there are many many people who argue that it is not economically viable in that they will not be able to stay there stay then I wonder if you just got the Nobel Prize for his main pieces was that we should all have bigger deficits why not spend so what you're saying is it in urology if a particular interpretation of what the economy is all about this at this interpretation that we have you know here that makes sense you would use the deficit you got more money than you've ever. But on the other hand so the fact that we we spend so much on social social programs in so much I know who's to say what's enough and what's not enough the economy is subject to interpretation that Europeans so just feel it's worth it to spend more than I actually brought these questions that data it is the case that Europeans to ride it can country survive more of their total GDP from taxation but it is not from income taxes on individuals and families there are a variety of more kinds of taxes that the Europeans you there at variety of kinds of the Santas a difference is it with regard to Corporation taxes then that in the United States but if it's really much more complex then then just raising taxes when I don't understand the differences. What is the read about the Friendship expression though you know the whole thing what is it I'll be adopted. It'll give me a ride home what kind did I need the appreciation of why it is that we don't do those sorts of things you know what was the fundamental difference in the political philosophy of government was how that's going to change who knows what this kind of a video of a political situation I think but Mark was just saying is Well it is important to Jonas Parsippany suspect the economy is doing well in the United States we tend to do things D and that kind of a situation Europeans are looking more to how they can American Life very, D&M and it will have implications on other social politics remotely near future I'm at now come to the defense that the only thing that I knew that he has to work or if intrumental Improvement you know I will just work on Healthcare went out for a few more people eligible for Medicaid and do more people eligible for Medicare and that kind of income is Andre Pickett Instagram I think there were a few other do they not do they do they do things differently on that little bears and they have well I mean but I think that there is a total tax permit to look at right b a t by value-added taxes around 20% send it into to add up and then you have property taxes in life and in a different system up here I bless you no options as far as it did in the dark. As well so but the Swedish prime minister it just now it is interesting to see because they have done a lot for the economy in the last two three years so they call me now know we always look behind you read New York Times last 3 or 4 years old here is nearly collapsing while prostate know what you see now is actually that the budget know it looks much better on deficit you better so you have a very different tone of voice there so I don't want to exaggerate the problem here either I mean I think that they would they were excessive the rate suggested that Suites were the sickest people in the world because the rules related to too sickly or so generous that you actually got 90% on your first day so I had to do something which we should be used to call the mental health day mental health day of every month 2 days if you have to pay yourself and then everybody can can handle that right now they are the healthiest people in the world that you can can do so I think I think it's economically level things are doable but now they have to be dealt with at european-wide level at that point up earlier Social Democratic model for a Christian Democratic women have an interesting question within Europe that relates to look at the us because he clearly has 812 family attitude you know whether it's a family or or or some kind of more diversity pack of family so you had fun huge differences serious problems created Dynamic call Houston German Social Democrat but also because I'm alive. all German sentence with their ability to take care of people they had the song right I think that the Germany and the enormous enormous I have no idea it's just going on right and that's very costing I didn't see the advantage that the Germans have though is there is the principle of subsidiarity why does Catholic notion original just now becoming kind of them be the organizing principle that is to say that everything that can be done at the lowest possible level should be done there right now that's a very good news State Devolution and then write in a you have a little bit unfunded mandates thank you that is something what you see and that's right so you say okay just has to be solved at the private local family level and then we come in with you. That is runs against the grain basic principle so that's why I think it's it's cold over the situation in Germany in a certain way right another way structurally they are better equipped at dealing with absolute more optimistic they're what began to happen a lot of European with the expenditure to what you were saying for getting out of hand or a so-called and there's some kind of realized that we need to be going on but my sense is that that the basic model basic Paradigm is not going to be destroyed as a result because it was quite which it was quite for more promise I'm going to come in as you as you bringing things down a little bit more but some of these rights are so fundamental to European that I can't see them changing that much and also again because labor continues to be strong and involved in some way are organized all are there I can't I it's not it's it's going to decrease indeed but I don't think it's going to be destroyed Jessica Schmidt flavor Virginia what are they thinking good Nike sport is organized labor during which I assume is the most impressive for never was but it did not know how it's going to be in deep who knows what's going to happen they can't even get the Emu going but the first area of a report that's right exactly one of the first areas where will have to do with labor and the mobility of labor but it won't be the old kind of Labor new labor unions during the industrial organization that that very much is changing and it isn't the same kind of organization but I think it it it now becomes the idea of a people working and there needs to be some kind of both protection for people working no matter where it is because indeed there is there is open movement of people now you don't have to have passports but any more to go around but it is it true the different country so there's more of that but sound very some unit that will continue to protect although it's not the Union as a mule day if there'd be something more will develop if the idea that people work that I think is important and that the rule of government is to protect people to do government not just that day is not a nation state level the government if you didn't get the bigger eating but if that's where the I think the basic model just gets transformed from the country to run something a little earlier it's too very abstract thought but but but nevertheless there that different Dynamic they're going on then in the United States again we're in a Recession Proof that it could have it for you to do it erupted Lexington Market Union soldiers not white hair Alexa so they're not part of the political system way they're not they have in some ways they have held back industrial change restructuration at the economy and that's why I think that there will be an opening up Union green or what labor means without destroying today the second shift right right yeah no I think there's no there's no place I mean actually just two states that I've seen this indicate the both both men and women in fact want to do that in the first right so they said the breakdown of what men and women like to do Fat Daddy's there's actually similarity there but what is a research report indicates that women are more far more likely to end up doing other things less interesting aspects of of the household right question and the answer was obvious you know not being lazy or not wanting to do things about two maybe maybe women are just more sensitive to this issue not so much do you have anything to do with men right to know but there's certain type of internal logic among women the other woman right and I was out of the room or less actually I've been doing a lot of research and there's a lot to that when you look at trying to find out if motivational why are women acting in this way right and that's that's why I was suggesting before that that one of the interesting to look into this a bit more gender roles in a in a situation where you can't just hire a maid type of thing in the United States it's very easy not to have to confront these sorts of issues because it's a very good for women who are professional women in the US by profession when they get in trouble time because they they lose their jobs and government because they do it illegally but I mean you can do it conflict within families being resolved simply by paying for it this week because it's a secret thing and it's a very touching that is not tax-deductible least expensive