Unknown Speaker 00:01 Director Ross Toomey programs, undergraduate services at Columbia College Unknown Speaker 00:08 are intelligent Unknown Speaker 00:12 enough to program and step programs to show some of the things that she speaks. And we'd like to welcome you to our session on public policy changes, we like to share at least some of our vision and our themes, invite comments and conversation within three continuous activities. Unknown Speaker 00:41 I'm going to start off my talk with a look at public policy from the point of view of looking at the New York state goals. And those goals, the look at access, excellence, effective use of resources, diversity, Employment and Economic Development. As we have seen how they come down the form of actual programs. I'm going to look at a number of I have notes all over the place here. So I'll be referring to one note to another. And we would, as Kevin pointed out, we will have a discussion at the end. When I took a look at looking at access and looking at opportunities, and looking at the need for them, I have to first start off with why it is that we need to look at at policy. And we know that push you may be far better were denying some of the current data and research that we have with respect to the need to look at programs are going to be addressing the significant amount of minorities pursuing higher education. And the blacks and Hispanics showing the sharpest drop. After 1975, the College Board for the show the disproportionate number of blacks to fight to the rich in college. And of course, the literature indicates that 94 40,000 fewer black students were attending college in 1976. And during that same time period, white students showed a moderate decrease. But the reason for the major decline in the minority students was identified as the excessive high school dropout rate, the rigorous testing and initiative standards and reduce financial aid. The EPA, we also look at the number of women, young women to complete high school. And we look at the kind of parental expectations that are around for younger and more fortunate going to school, but isn't there many of them do not have the incentive to go on and we have an eye during the campaign now one day GOP program, are we looking for young women from disadvantaged backgrounds to make sure that program is coming to bottom right and 72 such programs or the state of New York who are looking at disadvantaged students to come into programs for the purposes of bettering their lives, so they can perform in competitive economic development that we've been talking about. That's been a force to some people that has focused on the six things that when they were a number of opportunities, a number of policies that we developed in order to have access for disadvantaged for minority students, for most parts of intercom, that what we found happening is that they were discouraged that they're completing school and going out into the workforce and getting those degrees, there was nothing, there's still nothing available for the toilet floors. That's so insane. So that when we look back now it's two and you say to students now, why is that you now should be thinking about this? Is this really something we should be doing? Considering? You we looked at a number of reasons that they are given one, they do not feel they're prepared. And indeed Unknown Speaker 04:39 and we look at the number of black men in particular who are going off to the armed services as being the Armed Forces as being the avenue to make it successful. And we look at the young women who have decided that they either want to go directly To intermarriage is still likely to be a big option for some women under the age extreme COVID-19. And we've actually decided they're going to go on and work or they become pregnant. And the number of young women who became pregnant under the age of 19, has escalated from 33,019 93 to 60,000. According to what makes me so important, the governor's task force with ls pregnancy. So all I'm doing is coming up. So you already know that is that we do have a very serious situation, we do have a number of barriers to education, and which makes the need for the policy great. And for programs that are developed that are going to address that. Recently, we did get, I suspect, some again, for women, and that is civil liberty suit against the State Education Department, discriminating against music, discriminatory practice in their awarding of merit scholarships, to students based on their high school performance, as opposed to the based on performance and what they use, as you may or may not know the SAP results. And that is that you can no longer take results. But you must also use it in combination with the weekly average. That was a game, but we didn't, there's still a lot of ways for us to go. And when we look at that, and it was just Academy talking about that when we look at that kind of thing, which is again, but we still look at disadvantaged groups and blacks and Latinos are still forming those national average expect LSAT scores. Blacks of the average verbal scores to 51 for the weekend is 360. Other Latinos between seven, and the black math scores would average to be 77. Because those scores 400, and other Latinos for a non that, what it's what it says to me is that somehow we have to have some very, very creative kinds of policies to dip down and to not only excite students about above, not only to excited about education being really viable, wonderful opportunity, but to really look at how you can get at the deficits that we have Unknown Speaker 07:31 in students, academic. Unknown Speaker 07:34 So then do a combination. Unknown Speaker 07:37 Before you go on, because we were both a part of the ACLU sued against New York State in their attempts to eliminate women or young women from getting the kinds of scholarships that they needed to come into college and they were using SATs scores as chief method of evaluating those to 2 million who is recruiting all women for Varna college that the series but it was especially service to the school like one we call it a human 93 became co Ed and his being overwhelmed. And still we attract a speaker substantial male population. But we have been successful in each class because 1983 and bringing in about 40% women into our schools. So we're opportunity programs, which really rely on certain state criteria, which give us leeway in admitting students based on things other than standardized tests, such as strength of character, or competitiveness of curriculum, this would have been an instrumental, really mature Columbia College, especially with a great deal of damage to movies forward to bringing women into higher ed through our system of Opportunity Programs. Unknown Speaker 09:06 So thank you. So that both on a on a federal level, as well as in the state level. There is a big emphasis now to come up with these programs that are going to move the students from point A to point B in terms of the academic preparation. And I'm going to talk about some of those programs program that we had before. But just wanted to note the black Issues in Higher Ed talked about it's a separate issue. The American agenda report to at that time President Elect Bush from before ex President Jimmy Carter and before that, that said the national debt, as I say, quote is a symbol of our unwillingness to match our resources to our demands. And our own hands to find make critical choices among competing priorities. And then they diverge that, that they're that they somehow present push someone to eliminate money as a variation, individual education. And to that end, they were really pushing for funding will pull funding for Headstart chapter one, pipeline programs with the Prepare minority disadvantage, just attached into the future. And we and we also have a urge in there are some other scholars or educators and particularly in areas of science, but in education as well, in general who, who are urging President Bush to put up with some kind of funding, but the fear is that President Bush is going to be focusing his energies on programs that are going to be specifically for science, or science or any kind of programs. And that field there is that in kind of policy of programs that we're going to gear to building up are not really no not needed, building up science and technical skills in a population that we're in that we look for gifted students, I think that somehow shows the potential to walk into the sciences that will not be listened to vote. Because the majority of those particularly now we're looking at the disadvantaged population, the reason we have to look at this, because we're looking at the demographics of the year 2000, the majority of the population, somethings as a college age population, are going to be those who color so it makes sense to begin to focus there. But if we look at those students in those nine groupings, or are going to be able to show some potential for the sciences that I think we are going to be missing. Because the the critical mass, as I call it, are those students who are poor, who are at the point of dropping out of school where we have you heard what 70, or 60%, of black and Latino doing, who are not going to school who cannot read and write, for boys to be the cool boys to be the ones that we're going to have to rely on to do some things that we want them and we're all in our own day or night, here at this point. But so that we do need to direct our emphasis there. Here's some of the things I've done in that portion of the federal on the federal level, there's still a field programs, you know, we still have the upper bound programs, which have been around for 25 years, we still have talent search programs, and we still have special services programs. And I can talk about those later if you're not familiar with those. But the the upper bound Townsend's programs are high school oriented programs and Outward Bound is supposed to be targeting the CD students, those students make seem to these schools and help them with their skills and bring them on to higher ed. And the chances program is supposed to be targeting the age who needs more information about college to help fill out patients given information and that type of information and Unknown Speaker 13:24 the programs that we have now currently that we have at Barnard. On the preparation side, we have the STEP program, which is a Science and Technology Industry Program, which is this program is talking those students who have shown some potentially some of the whistleblower criticism, it is talking some of those students have shown potential. And that program has is a year round programs where students come on campus and live during the summer was intended as a program. And then during the academic year, come to campus on Saturdays for classes. And the intent is to stay with those students who and you take them from seventh through 12th grade to save them hopefully from seven ways in the town to graduate. There is a need for those kinds of programs. But there's another program that really does excite me. It's the Liberty partnership. And you may have heard about the partnership, which is the program that comes from the Governor Cuomo was big on just coming out of this year. The child local thing is mandates now with children and to educate them has come up with legislation and his fight. Those of us who would like institutions to unite with community based organizations and community school districts, and then to come up with programs that will target those students who are listed in our school, which is where I as I said before, I think is really the critical mass. So I'm excited about that program and closable that we'll see what happened. That program, we are all looking at the consortium, the effort with Bank Street School of Education, and with the adolescent Cancer Prevention Program, which is housing. We also have here, a GOP program, as was mentioned, and EIGRP program has been here now for about 18 years. And currently, that program does give us the kind of diversity that we talked about, we want to bring to college campus. But he itself is not a it's not a minority program, it is not a description. It is a program for disadvantaged youth. And many of those students fall into that grouping of black and Latino. We also have Asian and white students who we are going to come back and we'll probably have a discussion about some other things. But Jeremy Campbell is going to talk now about how to read and respect to administrators and how to win and faculty. And then we'll come back. Unknown Speaker 16:14 Well, in the areas of public policy and education, when we talk about the region's goals, and Vivian has talked about access and excellence, and diversity, one of the areas that is of greatest interest to me is that of employment and management, and effective use of resources. For one, I think the spelling and I was alluding to the fact that in the eighth year in the Reagan administration, there were educational changes that affected policy and institutions. For us at Columbia College, one of the changes that we had to make, because our funding sources are drying up on the level of federal government more and more of the responsibility of assisting students in college, and then placed in the lap of the state, and especially on the ladder to college. So at Columbia College, we decided that if we're going to deal with access to higher ed, and in light of the types of public policy that we had to deal with a particular time, why not leave our immediate area, go across the country, and look for students, students of color, which include So for our purposes, Asian students in that number, especially with demographics that say, in the next half another years that greatest numbers of our students are going to come from the West Coast, California, this is typically Texas, the Midwest, and we're seeing that I think every day in our recruitment efforts. So we decided that we would in terms of expanding the pool of students that we could recruit from, and why do we want to keep diversity alive after college, that the college and university would fund a program that would meet students needs across the country? Unfortunately, I guess with any of the kinds of programs that we're talking about, we're talking about limited numbers, talking about small numbers, small groups at a time. I think the hope is that over a number of years, some of the policies that have been initiated within programs such as ours, and we know that it happens, I think a yearly basis become expanded to the grant population. That's what has to happen. In light of the kinds of changes that education has to deal with. One of the areas that I want to talk about deals with employment and effective use of resources, when in line with the region's goals, and are encouraging students to take advantage of higher ed options and driving school education was one of the things that I think at Columbia College, first class women who came in and 98th grade, one of those women graduated and went on to Columbia, and sorry, went on the carbon, BBs Grad School of Public Policy. And so hearing action, I think we could see because of public policy, that we had not only used all of the opportunity mechanisms to bring in students support them, and graduate them, but we've sent them out and sent them out to do the kinds of things that I believe in light of the kind of goals that we've set in higher ed, for students and perhaps reaching out to their communities and whether Pre law, medicine, education, public policy and bringing back Unknown Speaker 20:06 some of all those good things that we've given them in terms of education to better their communities and their families. In early March, I saw an article in The New York Times written by John Anthony Lucas Pulitzer Prize winner, that part of the School of Public Policy and the headline, Bradley talked about charges of forbidden training its people to the technocrats. And that in light of how the school was first established, almost 50 years ago or a little over 50 years ago, to train people to come out and to be involved in public service that Mervyn King had changed some of its directions over the years was beginning to make a change, yes, and how it was going to educate these young people, and how they would, of course, react or interact in our society and support us. So this was of great interest to me, because we had, as I said, to put in school, like through the undergrad level, and go to her summer internships and public policy. And here she was at school with supposedly policies that in light of what our needs are, and what we were trying to do, might not have been as supportive, as we would have liked to see perhaps the school's direction. And so for me, that work to mine, some framework and public policy, and education, and how the equations seem to change back and forth, and how they're questions that perhaps so we will share some answers to, and how people of color, and especially women, fit into these changes as the government changes from year to year its policies. One of the actions that's happening now has to do with minority scholars and opportunities, and especially in the recruitment of minority faculty in the US, and we're going to talk about changes in public policy, education. If we talk about human curriculum, I think the list of educators has to be reversible and diverse pool, chronicle of education, printed an article battle panel chaired by mer Adams, who's the Assistant Vice Provost at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, and their institution sponsored conference on minority scholars in November of 1987. And some of the results in that conference, recently published, and one of the things that I'll read directly from the article had to do with federal efforts I've been criticized, so I read, the report was prepared by panel and 34 scholars and administrators. Most were black Hispanic, or American Indian groups that the panel members that had been historically disenfranchised. Despite much discussion and action to date reports a guest was currently missing as a set of clear statements to guide policy and development on leadership. I think when we talk about our programs, in recruiting students and supporting students that maybe more frequently than people comfortable, there's a lot of work to do. But those of us are in the field, in this particular aspect of higher ed, are doing, and there are new people every day, we know more and help us and support the issues that are important to us. What we do know that this lack of guidelines and policy development, some major coordination on the part of federal and state government really leaves us out there. How do we recruit students, tell them about higher education bring into the institutions in which we have we don't have programs that are of importance to them when we talk about I've recruited from the Midwest, to American Indian students. Columbia is not known to inaccurate numbers in terms of student populations, American Indians, but when we talk about curriculum, when we talk about topics of interest areas of studies that may be important to individuals that they might want further study on. It's another available, it's unavailable, because we haven't set into place and more policy guides us on curriculum, including the major aspects of American society, and people of color, and especially women, women. So this has been a problem for us at the university, not only in terms of faculties and scholars. But also in terms of the judiciary, I think the same type of things that we see in the larger aspects of education in terms of the pool are many of the people in leadership positions, whether we talk about presidents of Ivy League institutions, or if we talk about principals of schools, we're talking about men, predominantly white men in positions of power in higher ed, if we talk about administration, in terms of human beings of colleges, who are the Dean of Student Affairs, we talked about the ones who can manage the downs in life. And what students are crying out to us for is much more diverse. And diversity, not only in color, the diversity in thought, diversity in interests, bringing nice people to the university is for us, and we're talking in higher ed, especially about monies, and we're talking about salaries this morning. The judge referred to mommy track, and lots of upset about that. But we've talked more about that here. But we do need to talk about what that means at the types of positions that women, especially people of color have in higher ed, and what that phrase is, we can use mommy tracking or bringing it to women of color means for us, personally, it means that because we haven't gotten to positions in higher ed, that allow us that kind of leeway to take the time when that time is needed. And I think it was stated this way, that when we talk about issues of flexible time, and barriers and work hours, we're not just talking about women in higher ed, I hope not, I hope that we need to reach down to those people who are on levels that don't necessarily mandate that they get a year off for maternity leave many of us in this room, that's not an option that we have going for us, we need policy, set reminders that will allow all of us to take advantage of the time to accessibility of ours. And one of the things that at this point hasn't happened in higher ed. Robert Wright, one of the people at Horam, has put forth an idea and our view about the responsibility of those who deal in public policy. And he says that it's not simply to discover as objectively as possible with people wanting themselves, including Chairman to implement the best means of satisfying those wants. It's also provide the public with alternative visions of what is desirable. And think in light of our topic of access to higher education, public policy, that there is more that needs to be done in terms of alternative visions, and in terms of what is desirable, not only for those who perhaps have not been helped themselves, but I think in the largest scheme for all of us here in this country. I think it can be a result one way or the other. The hiring policies definitely start to add some stuff, we certainly want to discuss an issue. Unknown Speaker 29:22 I'd like to say something, I think that all these programs are key often step are extremely, extremely important. Because just based on my experience, I think that this should all start at the elementary school level. And I think that the students who do go on to places like Barnard and Columbia and then on to grad school are those people who are encouraged to engage intellectual activity and courage from the start scholarly activity. And there needs to be there needs to be money in programs to support this type of thing because all of this really builds on have a sense of self. And if you have a really positive sense of self, and people have been supporting you through these programs, you can definitely go end up in places like Colombia. And I will add that I'm in graduate school in the sciences and communication program. And there is definitely a need for more minority people, minority women, especially in the sciences, especially in biology, whether or not even any white woman needs. There's a definite need to propagate women who go into the sciences, because it's definitely needed. And then this strong sense of self that these key off programs, step programs and program that you mentioned, giving it that FOMO is a movie partner delivering a partnership are very important, because when I was a foreigner, and as a student from 81, to 85, I found that being in an environment with all women was a wonderful supportive environment and I flourish. When you get into grad school, you're interacting not only with women, but with men, who have very preconceived notions about the position of women in society, particularly about the position of women in the sciences, they a lot of these men do not think that the women should be in the upper echelons of the scientific community. And I think that it's very important to be, again, to be supported and supported and supported by all these programs, so that when you finally get to college, you can perpetuate yourself, and then perpetuate yourself out of graduate school, because they really, I find that there is a lot of sexism in graduate school. And if I were a black woman, it would be about 25 times worse, and I'm a white woman, and I'm American, etc. And I'm from New York state. So I'm nothing atypical. But I'm in Albany, and I find that there's an intense amount of sexism. And you have to have nonlinear to be very bright, but you have to have a strong personality. And I think he's qualities, very aggressive. And I think these qualities have to be fostered specially. Unknown Speaker 32:19 I think you're absolutely right, it certainly is a parallel with the kind of support that no matter if it's college, and actually what students of color, and I can specifically talk about Unknown Speaker 32:36 black students. Unknown Speaker 32:38 And they store some of the research that that can get implemented with them. That was talked about the kinds of experiences that black students have had down the white institution. And, and the way that experience is different for black students accompany black college. And the difference being to where you treat the kind of Unknown Speaker 33:10 close up. Unknown Speaker 33:22 That that kind of support is critical, because you you're in an environment where no one is now going to look at you because of any particular characteristic that you have, or a particular way that you want to do all that that you're all in this together, that's all about then what you actually can do, how you're actually doing when you're doing on the content or the or the actual substance of what is happening, as opposed to any other kind of scary look at. So I think that's critical there is they're still on palm. So take a look at with a GOP problems. And many of the students that come in here who are of color that we bring to campus even like going on Columbia that that we try to work with, because we bring in students during the summer that are going to be freshmen in September. And a lot of our counseling has to do with like what's going to be like for you here at a predominately white institution and just to talk or frankly about that. And again, your feelings and what's it last year we had a big session on just to talk on, on racism where we want everyone to and then when there are some students who will say to you, I've never experienced that. I don't know what that's that's about like then they go through the year and they get back to him. I can't believe some of the things have happened. I don't believe I think I was I think something has just happened to me. I mean, it isn't have clear about anything that maybe just happened. And and if we had, and you get to talk about it, let them share the particular incident and so forth. And even to the point where we have a faculty who maybe unknowingly even I didn't even may share some things, one student was telling me that that a professor just slipped and said to her I was surprised that you that you got to be, you know, your your backgrounds, this is very difficult stuff. I'm not sure. I think, you know, I think it's I was just insulted, I'm not, I'm not quite clear. And then, of course, we deal with professors, it's a whole different kind of complex, you know, and then in the student is in a position where it's really how to react to that what that means is situations is very good. There is a support base, there is a place you can go, you can even cry about that there are even people who are able to take some action for saying, here's some things that can be done. That kind of thing is not tolerated. That's not That's not what we want to happen here. Because not with Barack Obama or Columbia, for that matter. And here are some steps that we can take and let's educate that person. Or if not, that's fine, if it's blatantly something that we don't like them as a person as if it is indeed the racism that we needed to put people in and bring to the forefront. So So I am saying on say that you're absolutely correct in saying that these programs need a support base in the United States, I set up a 60s when a number of students have come aboard on on campus look without the white campuses, and they have since found out failed, didn't work. There was no support base, no support did not have to be that support mechanism to make that work. You bro you brought them here, you say there's medications that they that they are, right. They many of them lack the same kind of study skills and get you through a competitive place and get to a good school. That's right. And then I'm coming from a home base where, where you just can't go any other movement and pick up the library book. But that was it, there was certainly a resource there in that environment. So it wasn't mistake, a lot of those things the way it was set up. I think it was set up to fail has results certainly did. And now the whole thing is that you programs certainly coming down from state legislatures and just public to and that is to just apply for them should be ones which which had a support base, maybe that will be counseling, they will be tutoring, in the case of the partnership, we're talking about when we're talking about students who are at risk of dropping out of school, you got to do more of this provides an educational process, you're gonna have to provide social support, social service support, that being that you're going to now have to connect with the family. With the parents, that is not the programs, or the policy that comes down has is going to have to make those pieces because I've assumed is not dropping out. students dropping out of school. Right back at school, it was just blown up as for tenants already the does fairly good grades aren't gone that good. I was able to see progress and feel that good about himself. Unknown Speaker 38:17 I had to suggest going to the family actually because some families are not the most supportive in the world. Unknown Speaker 38:23 No, no, I mean, what's the family the sense that you've got to now provide support for families to help the child this one, right? Because that made me Tell me to refer the you may have that helping to refer the parent for Educational Counseling himself or herself. It may involve even setting up daycare referring parents with a period of looking at where alternative housing possibilities, often the family, these these are going to be ways and then to do parenting time workshops. We help the parent to to know how to help the child. I'm just saying it's a whole Yeah, Unknown Speaker 38:59 it's a whole new way to suggest something that is well not so radical. But I was also thinking that there should be a large psychological support center where there are blocks, therapists who are trained in various orientations, you know, like behaviorally oriented cognitive psychotherapy, existential psychotherapy analytic so that because I took many courses in Psych being a bio psych major and I remember doing studies on racism and that sometimes the black white into a relationship in the psychotherapeutic situation is not the most beneficial. I think there should be an extension of psychological services so that if someone is, you know, failing and giving up you're getting to see him as very upset and the parents are 2000 miles away or you don't have the greatest emotional core with the parents that there are psychological support services. So they can go to to to you to heat up but they can also go I sit down and say, Look, you know, I'm going into this process of learned helplessness, this professor just said to me, Well, I got to be in a course, which I thought was rather good. But his perception was that he didn't understand why that would be. And there's some discrepancy in the perceptions. And I'm very confused. Am I supposed to be here? Or am I supposed to be getting a lower or, you know, the sending of mixed messages can confuse an 18 year old and I think there has to be a broader base of psychological support services I universities. Unknown Speaker 40:36 I'm not sure if I would ever have psychological services, or that kind of counseling, but we have to be very careful about the use of psychiatric, psychological kind of testing, particularly for students to come in they will experience with that, I would I will need to put a question we do have a component of that, but only for cases where there is silly or there was some evidence that when did you want to go deeper and do more psychological or even have a therapy recommended? What caught on hold? General? I wouldn't do it if it would turn students off. And I don't think it's actually needed. I think if you have a counseling support or a sensitive staff to talk about experiences within that, I think you've got to you got to do okay. Of course, we had Unknown Speaker 41:30 it would you unfortunately missed out on Columbia now has a group of women and I are both on the advisory board, full car coalition acting for racial awareness. It's a university wide unit. And students traveling all divisions and graduate school levels are now part of a support team, which deals on a weekly basis with racial incidents, rate racial epithets, that have been a real problem at the university by the system. They're getting support for the use of the social work department, Teachers College, in dealing with issues. These are students of all folks. And it's been a great to have students supporting each other white students, understanding perhaps the sources of your own prejudices are hurting that. And we also now have this is only in its second year, a peer counseling system. Their counselors will be trained by Psychological Services at the University, and again at university Why is embargo. Unknown Speaker 42:47 So I don't know, I think this is based on my record years here, and the people I knew here and the problems that arose, and my major, which was biosign, there were five people and three of them were black women. And then the course loads were demanding and never had enough time to complete things and just all the academic pressures, sometimes it is good to have either counseling service or peers, you can go to and say, look, the course load is overwhelming. You know, and I don't know if I'm going to graduate on time, or you know, I'm not doing well, our Unknown Speaker 43:18 next one we need to do for students having Unknown Speaker 43:25 like a teacher's college campaign. Columbia is the number one question I'd like to group here is, since we do know, the demographics will be changing, there's going to be a larger minority population in higher ed, what is the long term plan in terms of curriculum, which, you know, the emphasis seems to be on recruitment now. And yet when students come here, part of my work at TC also, you know, I sense that at the graduate level coursework, the programs and curriculum, what really what the needs of those students, specifically in terms of socio economically, but in general, academic, and how did they How did these institutions I mean, how will they help these people develop their professionalism, Unknown Speaker 44:18 the diversity that they use to Unknown Speaker 44:20 society? I don't know. I'm not sure I'm following Unknown Speaker 44:25 you. But you're right. And you're right on the money. And I think this is really what we've been leading to in terms of public policy, that the action is in place and the issues of there, and they're going magnified. And certainly, and certainly, you know, some of the ideas that at least we've begun to develop with you in terms of hiring faculty, hiring administrators of diverse back For those who support students who are coming in and developing programs on a program, unfortunately, I think it's much more general Melanie says, you know, the numbers of years that it takes to put these things in place and wait now, to do some things that we're going to need in a very short lot, I mean, we need it now. But it'll be most pressing effective in the next few years. And it's, it's how do we get public policy people to move on those interests to really commit, not just to say it in words, but to commit to the dollars. And I'll come back to you, I mean, the commitment appears to be right down. And if you can fill in here, a very private thing of every city and state oriented kind of endeavor. For instance, I get that reward free schools, we have something called the Oliver scholars, which is a city fund to support students of diverse backgrounds in need. We have the island a dream scholarship, we have the prepper prep program, small groups, but not routes that are being overseen by any public mandate by individuals who have a commitment, we have Columbia dollars that are being used, as best they can to encourage research to support certainly areas of academic interest to minority students to support academic never thought of minority students. But it's their their small, isolated pockets. And in something a whole lot bigger. Unknown Speaker 46:47 I just want to be clear that you talked about the diversity in the regular equipment and let things go I think this needs to happen about two years now, changing education community recently attended a seminar. Unknown Speaker 47:17 And they were dealing with Unknown Speaker 47:18 choice and how it impacts their city, schools and future. So the concerns that's in here listening to this stance, which is the tuition tax credits for the National System, or whatever, and I'm wondering if you might be able to speak on this choice system and the point, Unknown Speaker 47:40 very good Unknown Speaker 47:43 extent examples where it has worked, but we are looking at the vision of the year 2000 choice. Unknown Speaker 47:53 One example. Unknown Speaker 47:55 Looking at the program, couple of blocks primarily they focus on states unifying, diverse patient. Fortunately, the one presented there was intimately connected with the new wave choice net next, including the Unknown Speaker 48:26 Go to Effect we're working with the soda Money Follows child Unknown Speaker 48:34 education system to watch Unknown Speaker 48:36 schools that are good, Unknown Speaker 48:39 survive those that don't have kids and young policy work fails in the corner. I don't have kids. But you just need to address that choice impacting you connected to this, where we are really big achievements plus pros and cons. direction are Unknown Speaker 49:06 you referring to now, to make one I guess, where they are foundations, I guess a different point now than some others that that can give students an opportunity to go to private schools that have choice as opposed to public schools. Unknown Speaker 49:25 Public policy where your copy of the pie chart tell us if you will, foreign strongly to Unknown Speaker 49:33 the market Unknown Speaker 49:41 is not required to go to Free to Choose with an open space. I'm interested in how to change between Gordon Columbia I mean, I've always been intrigued with Estonia. So in the environments may have Unknown Speaker 50:07 Why did you do that? Unknown Speaker 50:20 Less having been in the weather and in front of classroom or linen administration in New York City for almost 20 years of higher education, I can imagine the state of New York, that choice for the inner city areas is a way to go and implement what's good right now, too. Marry, Unknown Speaker 50:57 the wealthy have always had choice. So what is legally speaking the way to go? If this is a direction that public policy is trending? How do we if you will Unknown Speaker 51:18 track it perhaps a little more favorably Unknown Speaker 51:20 for your inner school system, but it lasts a week. So education is the system? Unknown Speaker 51:30 Well, I mean, I think from what I hear, you're saying, at this point is an option for some places, obviously, is going to have to be something that each state is going to have the decision to take part in, at least from where I sit, it's not what I have to say, I've not never been in a great third of the centralized school system, there are kids on school buses hanging out at 6am in the morning, they're coming home at 6pm in the evening, and that's what it sounds like it's going to be it means you have the freedom to go wherever and we can get back to families that many of them don't have a system just for this. Unknown Speaker 52:22 Well, I was just gonna say that I'm right now I'm system principal in a public school besides an elementary school, and they have a very diverse population of kids from who have made the choice and I guess that they have had some type of choice. And I think it's very successful. I find that it helps the school that I'm looking at on East 66th Street so that the kids live on 66. We've also got a wide variety Unknown Speaker 52:56 of learning that goes on, if your cultural learning goes Unknown Speaker 53:00 extremely fine, and you can duplicate that 700 times or whatever is needed for growth. Unknown Speaker 53:08 That's just what I was going to say that's going to be an excuse to put money into certain schools and that it's not going to serve this type of service. Well, I'm glad to know that there is something that is working with students and getting tendons and Unknown Speaker 53:25 I'm curious what moves are being made to increase black faculty at Columbia because it sounds good Jackie. site and quad are pretty men who I know the freshman English. Those are the two month faculty I know at Columbia. Unknown Speaker 53:42 In addition to that, no it's even both really Unknown Speaker 53:45 limit the length we can get the choices. I guess it will work out well that we couldn't we have to go deeply. Unknown Speaker 53:56 That is monitors night. That is fun. We are recruiting we certainly make every attempt to to talk about what we consider to be the strong points of bar and we should not have any way to put down a Columbia we talk about Colombia as being a it's like getting your cake and eat it too. It's kind of a it's kind of a way is that we typically we see that students who choose our newly choosing because they they want to be in this kind of small setting where you can wait they also have the larger university at your at your beck and call. And of course if you have New York City and New York City Of course can also be terrible to the prices but sometimes you can also fill it to make that also an exciting that choice for For those who are out of state accepting, so we take it from a very, very positive point of view that if you're looking for her one on one verse of positive environment where women can flourish who may be only want to be and that, that and that we talked about in terms of the women, those women graduating and going on to patient programs that we just talked about a weapon themselves, and those that Unknown Speaker 55:35 are right next to each other for me, we find that there are young women who would prefer to be in an older woman's environment, the intellectual pursuit, we come floating, you know, factor in terms of, you know, how they feel, they will miss be able to endure a little higher ed. And some of it is also in programming as well. I said one could really feed into the other in terms of their mentors. And they're looking for women, especially black women, they're more performance campus and there are Bernard is doing substantial job perhaps in recruiting to women of color and others, then faculty. Faculty, students at Columbia College have taught at the college think is much slower. Yeah, we're allowed to use faculty and English. Full time changes and other tenure track. You're amazing that gets exactly. Unknown Speaker 57:10 It's more time. I guess it says the longer the record will go on, we can start getting some objectives, statistics on that. The extent to which one do women go sign to extend to these Columbia bindings? And things like that? A little bit early to tell that I was always curious about the subject. And I would always ask the Barnard students how did you have to choose? inconclusive answers, it was always like, Well, I went to a single sex secondary school when I wanted something I wanted to go I mean, it doesn't really, it's a partial answer. Well, I can answer in terms of oh, they have a better industry partner. And are they? Unknown Speaker 58:02 I can answer I came in in 1981, which was before the coeducation. But people I knew it transfer. When I was a junior, he was three, he then had spoke what occasion there were people I knew transferred to Columbia. And the reason I didn't transfer was because I like being in an all female environment. And in my mind, of course, this is my opinion, my biases, biases, but being in an all women's environment, and now being in graduate school, where I'm outnumbered, I feel that the environment bartered was very supportive for women and barter. You want to if you wanted to go win the Nobel Prize, and go do it. It was so supportive, you know, if you did well, and you were very intelligent, and that's all there was. And I never felt inhibited in the classroom. I always could ask questions, you didn't have men? I don't know you didn't have men sort of laughing at you because you asked intelligent questions. And this was not the thing that women did. I sit in graduate seminars and the women. This isn't Albany, but I'm leaving after the masters and going somewhere else for the PhD on I sit in graduate seminars. And the women are very apprehensive about asking questions about being assertive about finding out information in the classroom. And in order to this never occurred because you had predominantly a woman's environment. And women asked questions and whether they were not very intelligent questions or intelligent questions. People didn't sneer at you people didn't snicker at you whereas at Columbia. Well, a few instances it you sounded intelligent you were laughed at. If you sounded stupid. You will also laugh that because some men are made to feel very uncomfortable by both experience and that's Just my personal experience that needs to isolate and choose when you're looking to go. Well, when I was 18 years old, I had this realization because I was not high school. And I thought, well, you know, and I had come here and study on public classes before I had. Seems like I didn't have lunch. And that's why I came here because I couldn't come here I was sitting on boxes. I also went to Harvard, and I sat around looking men and women. And I found that the women in the CO educational institutions that I went to Brandeis, Harvard, where I went, Kevin bio lectures, and I sat in on Grimore, and Barnard. And I contrasted that the women seemed less inhibited in the classroom situation than trying to seeking information in the classroom situation. That's my opinion, in my experience, take it or leave it for what it's worth, you know, Unknown Speaker 1:01:08 based on my evidence I mentioned with Jeff Fleming before softer, talks about the last four years of undergraduate education has been that what you called Identity resolution. And that is when you're going through that, that process and human environment that's supporting you through that it gives you that basic springboard to the gap. So it's based on something very much on a theoretical basis here. Oh, by the way, my husband and my husband, I'm so glad to see them. Unknown Speaker 1:01:51 You know, what you said about choice? And I'm still thinking about it, because it's, I guess, one of the perhaps very few actions that you see, as you say, that is public policy being said, you know, in action, at least in one part of the country, what's your opinion on because I think it really is important wasn't trying to, you know, push what's happening at your school in the background, but being a Tennessee person in teaching in growing up in education, I just always very concerned about models that work well, for a half a dozen schools and leave the majority. Maybe we just want more. Unknown Speaker 1:02:39 One thing I really articulating? Because as I'm looking at it, and saying, here's this to me, because I thought sleep a little bit, what vouchers, people just back away. And I was surprised to attend a seminar to find out okay, this out here, this is cultures. And so I'm looking at this, what is the whole probability, a policy that is coming into wholeness as opposed to color, we'll come into that again, and look at reality. And in between what's happening here, and what we need there, there's this voice to get from point A to point B, I'm not even sure what what one means together. And so that's why there's just not an articulation. But in terms of the voice, I check myself, the President was intimately involved with COVID was so good to listen to choice is a tool and it can be used or you can it can be used in some useful manner, such as the program here. So so that is a very important thing. Keep in mind that there are aspects of it that can be very useful. One is they focus on the need to have grassroots involved and have choice last six, grassroots involvement, being here, take their money, and go to school and I call it wrong. But the other side of it is the need to clearly involve the teachers in the community. Parents have some direction in terms of what needs education are too soft or too far. Unknown Speaker 1:04:44 They don't always agree that there's going to need to be at least a minimum standard set that all schools of choice was to be a way of life that all schools must maintain. And it's not a whole lot Looking for now, perhaps with a mandate to make sure that those minimums are being met by all schools, and hopefully choice, making it that much better. And it's what's supposed to happen, perhaps the sales price of this wisdom. Unknown Speaker 1:05:22 Or what I'm hearing is that the community comes together to form a school. Back basket weaving is needed. And they needed to make a link and said, Well, there's an economic basis on this decision, that basket weaving, this was the future, we're going to eat off the basket, because there's this, it's difficult because there's this real sense of you equal the system, the market system works that well does the market system will, will, in effect, have her do well on the market system will, in effect, produce an education system that will more and here's where it gets a little nebulous before, build an impression on what needs to be a market system and to be quite frank. And that's why I bring it up. And the really surprising thing to me, because my background is with National Congress of parents, teachers Unknown Speaker 1:06:35 are near Unknown Speaker 1:06:40 the children unless you have questions, and they're assuming the same age as the State University is not the base of operations outside the city, but it is the truth, right. Unknown Speaker 1:06:54 It just says it as a smokescreen, for siphoning off the monies that are much more needed in the inner cities in the minority communities is a team member. And we and air t have long fought the voucher system when it's ready to take during Reagan's administration. And we're not surprised when we started this whole kind of nonsense again. And what they're doing, they're changing this and changing the semantics voucher system didn't work and tuition tax system didn't work. Let's use the word choice. Unknown Speaker 1:07:30 Like the whole dorm room rating doublespeak, and let's let the American people actually believe that they are living in a democracy and controls. And so let you put up all these kinds of things. So I hope ramifications. Needless to say, as it stands now it is a board. And it has just a huge set. It is not a mandate for change. And I don't see and I see it as definitely neoconservative way to chain and to actually be sabotage as it were, what we need, basically, and we know why your mental, I think we all know that nobody's going to Division Three of mine you met because I teach junior high kids in the inner city. And I know how you feel about higher education. But I really feel that if we do not store with our pinch store, and when we're starting in the school, where I am a pre school special ed class Bible. And I can't tell you how difficult and how many years we've worked to get back to get monies. I mean, this is public, this is not a private, this is a public preschool special ed classes coming into our community. And that's what I'm working with. That's what we need. We need it for their preschool special ed petstore. For minorities, for women, for everybody coming in, through the workforce into the school system, we have to start there. You can't just pay kids or take people in these programs, when they have had all of these experience all of these negative experiences, all of this lack of support for and I had many single families and would have been working three jobs and everyone struggling and needing so much help. And we needed to work, you know, really from that level, not to minimize, certainly all the other programs. But I really don't see any kind of change until we really get as part of the matter and working towards your case. We're limited everyone, helping families, children, everybody that we can work because I see as a teacher teaching about and passionately about 25 over 25 years, and I see the schools we need to do more and We have money to do more we can do it, you get all your screens and glasses and we can get more psychologists on staff and what social workers we can do and we will do the job. Well, we all need all of this nonsense, all the smoke screens, you know, to take away from from what type of money Unknown Speaker 1:10:31 okay, I just want to think of the specialist just just because I just need more special. I'm wanting special in the sense that I know that there are a number of different classifications that are within Special Ed Newlife, neurologically impaired and so on. I mean, in terms of that, for the for the bulk of the of the youngsters, are you talking about special ed in the sense that there will be more one to one or the or the teacher student ratio would be lower? I'm just wondering, in terms Unknown Speaker 1:11:16 of physically. Where we are, yeah, I see you, I see the point you're making over the course. And the fact that we are very careful before any of our students who are at Teach, ever enter a special program, that we do not use clothes, and other aspects that have to do with this program. And that is about that is our prime concern. And what we're trying to do more and more is to have alternative programs, of course, and to get away from all the labeling, and I teach in New Jersey, and we cope by 1992 to destroy labels. Oh, yes, absolutely. And what we're trying to do now, of course, is to when I say free school that I mean, really, neurologically impaired case where you have absolutely the one to one, and all the programs needed, but also to develop resource room programs. And all the alternative ways, because we have an idea actually changes decided, especially over the years, where it was a dumping ground, and issues to overhaul and because of teacher advocacy, parent advocacy, advocacy, everybody, not really advocacy will change. I do not advocate, eliminating special ed programs. I've been in them too often I see them work. But certainly what we're trying to do now is change the whole way we assess a topic. And that's important to talk about Unknown Speaker 1:13:01 some, it's a small school, they have a dynamic principal, who came in two years ago, Unknown Speaker 1:13:07 who is also a professor part time after college. Unknown Speaker 1:13:11 And she has managed to eliminate Unknown Speaker 1:13:17 no child has a destiny score. They have learning centers, and it's actually very similar to private school. Unknown Speaker 1:13:26 It just it seems Unknown Speaker 1:13:28 I understand the Unknown Speaker 1:13:30 reasons behind not wanting to save money out Unknown Speaker 1:13:36 of certain schools and whatnot. But, sir, I've worked up in the Bronx in the South Bronx that summer, Unknown Speaker 1:13:42 and suddenly it's headed Unknown Speaker 1:13:44 down there as well. Unknown Speaker 1:13:46 The school systems, obviously not Unknown Speaker 1:13:49 the choice. Unknown Speaker 1:13:56 We refer to it as kind of a variant in the magnet schools, too, and they had to put limits on Minnesota because it couldn't be used in a way to offset the racial imbalance in schools too much one way or the other, then the choice is restricted but I think your point is well taken to vary across the board and the fact that they are plays itself out what happens if everybody wants to go to the same Unknown Speaker 1:14:36 white course that some something else will step in to fill the market need to absolutely amazing, great marketing thing. And I guess the reason why is because you There needs to what they will really sell it is Listen, what we have now is so bad. And I've been I just sat in my see, but if we can see the handwriting on the wall, and we can see what we need, again, any discussions we can be, but there are certain aspects to look at this is the period, if you look at your adoptive school for many pieces of the choice system. And one of the worst parts of the choices is when they reserve the right to choose the students that are coming to school. And that's the end. So you can say there's not a there is elements that are good, and it needs to be pulled out and to make it to work and to hold me is that here we are a point at your easy enough to to draw out all business involved because that's where you're talking to an informant who says that then we have your your student body, education, your last name on me born and I don't Unknown Speaker 1:16:42 know wrestling, but these are challenging times. And it's just not only issue of education, obviously, this is a matter of legislature and law and who our representatives are and how we influence them in terms of their voting, whether they will even allow the kinds of issues that appear to take place. And so it means that on every front, the challenge is to be different to have coalition's and to be alert, and wise and direction. That's not going to be any one way Unknown Speaker 1:17:18 of saying what the educational Unknown Speaker 1:17:19 issues. And those are going to be part of that challenge. The future in America status appears to be Unknown Speaker 1:17:32 that just as we hope women's issues Unknown Speaker 1:17:36 and education issues are not certainly involves a lot of knowledge on the part of parents and being informed about schools because otherwise leaves itself open as you were saying, school that's a nice course in basket weaving or jazz. And that's where all the TV shows. Please, Unknown Speaker 1:18:04 I know time is limited, but what keeps coming up in my mind, it's what's really happening with financial aid, because I know that that's such a big part of anyone's decision as to where they can go as well. And you said the concept to I love that the writer edited certain schools may have more resources to kind of begin with dollars, but yet, you know, many times you see students making choices based on solely a financial dollar, how much are they going to be in debt? At the end of the year nevermind medical school and law school after that, and fills out what factors that play very significant. In anyone but especially athletic minorities. That means a black swan like who when it comes to this Unknown Speaker 1:18:53 value? Well, I have the means or reality that choices are a choice. It really is. Because the alternatives that are now being placed before us is that the states are taking greater load and share that level of money to be shifted to the federal government appears to be back and forth, whether it's work study, whether it's the Pell Grant, etcetera, when they're easing out. And the situation unless there are emergencies what's happening is that I can see it I went to college in the 60s and it's looking in terms of how you fund yourself economically closer and closer to at least that period of time for me if you can't work if you can't go to city university or state university or resources. Unknown Speaker 1:19:50 Cutting only needs Unknown Speaker 1:19:53 an effectively picture but in reality Unknown Speaker 1:19:56 it is right to slavery congressional methodology To answer you, I understand that recently Unknown Speaker 1:20:01 there were some federal regulations that were proposed having to do with funding. Student Student Aid. Is that right? That where they were going to delay, one of the parts of it was to delay getting the funds until after school. That's trumpet that much was sort of interesting. Yeah, words worth the length of Yeah. In other words, instead of usually your intuitions do, you know, before you set foot in school, and they were going to not send me sending the money in until like, I guess, a ride on the on the carrier, what would they do that they many different ways it's being done right now, if a student doesn't finish a substantial portion of the semester, and maybe no funds in the student starts and withdraws without officially going through a process that may forfeit payment for another semester. And, of course, I mean, some of these things, rightly so there's a great deal of waste. But the other hand, for some people, if we're talking about supporting academically, students, many problems and reasons why semesters to finish, we can find that students out where we Unknown Speaker 1:21:31 make up a large portion Unknown Speaker 1:21:32 of the package. So that you know, and then there are many proposals about working in order to earn tuition dollars, and we see it all coming down. It's a reality, I think it's fast approaching. Unknown Speaker 1:21:49 You were just talking about the congressional the new congressional methodology that financial aid officers are, must now operate under for student financial aid, and for those dollars are coming from the federal government, that and the thing that does, it takes the students base your income and consider that income aid. So that what happens and add to this crazy stuff, I'm just trying to what happens is that it ends up double counting the students money, any monies, let's say, for example, that student earns money during the summer, or in the past, or even when you first coming in it was but you didn't have to really kind of count that. But now they do. It was you know, how old that as as part of a that you had, I mean, tell us about this document this fact, any and of course, anything over anything over tuition, and fees for tax dollars, when he financial aid that you receive, it's, it's really gotten to be a mess. So what I'm saying in essence, is that it double cash and money, you have to force save a certain amount of money for the summer, you have to do it anyway. Because we have to get back in and then you have been unnecessarily counted and again, as part of your income, it's crazy. It's but it's it's, it's that's the way things are working out with financial aid in terms of looking at the student's income. Well, we didn't look at it Unknown Speaker 1:23:31 before. And now it's more of a vast my personal life through GSL, thank you, maybe one fill out the forms, you sent it in six, six weeks, you had $2,500 now and 98, my first year of grad school, well, we want your financial aid transcript from Barnard, we want your income tax returns from 1985 to 1988. We want a statement that you're independent, we want a letter of acceptance from the SUNY that you're in the Ph. D program that we want to budget, and after like, all this rigmarole and you know, they would get the money but a breaking important, depending on the school. That's right, they break it in half the GSL, you get half of it in the first semester and half of it in the second. So if you're if you don't have money during the summer, you're out of luck till November. You don't have money, I mean, essentially, Unknown Speaker 1:24:23 and so maybe you're not even available to get we would change the the income guidelines in terms of when you can get even the loans, you know, like they used to be left with plus loans and even parents could get up to that now they've changed that. And the middle class could be Unknown Speaker 1:24:44 but it's becoming more difficult call the work study portion that the employer pay in the coming year will be greater and so therefore it's probably going to bring back the number of hours in community as well. With people like Unknown Speaker 1:25:00 that. But the other thing though, is maybe just in terms of students of color, or minority students, they get mentioned and opportunities for scholarships. So aid isn't going to end and make choices about schools. There was a college and I'm not sure if it was overland trying to American down. No Overland. There was a was a survey that was done in terms of looking at Maori students and making choices about college based on getting scholarships or getting aid. And the results is I remember horse pricing. In that he was a school like overland, which did offer students full packaging. I mean, they didn't do the they do a need based thing with board with differential packaging. Based upon the law, if you were a student of color, like one of those those students, and if they wanted to get more black or more Latino students, and they were forced to give more money in aid, what they found those, what happened was that students were not making choices based on that, well, we're making choices based software that will support this with a similar kind of thing we bought before, where they could go and they wouldn't, they would it would be okay, they can make it through a school that would be comfortable, as opposed to which really surprising the online thing given. So I'll just bring them up. Unknown Speaker 1:26:31 Here for Sir, it is such a battleground that I have, because we have a national program that you have no guarantee of perhaps increasing numbers. In black Latino communities, people are self identifying as many things. And I mean that seriously. So the fear of finding that money that perhaps we intend to have that money for us, is really the view of quarter percent of the general public or in American Indian, and people are identifying based on that, and scholarships. So I would say that, that's what's gonna happen is a lot less of that, and we're going to be available, portion it out in some other way. Really, creativity is the challenge the self to try to stick to go for society. Versus, Unknown Speaker 1:27:36 and just speaking challenges. Another Unknown Speaker 1:27:37 challenge that we didn't mention was that black males who are just almost you can find one of these days of power. That Unknown Speaker 1:27:49 goes right back to what you're saying you're going right back to preschool is that the state? That's wrong? Very, very, Unknown Speaker 1:28:05 very severe and very severe situation. And, you know, you're talking about women as a black woman now, in terms of they would like, some some professional black woman in the talking about those two, who still think about marriage, that, you know, what is what is that pool gonna be like? What's the availability? And those are some real issues that women talk about, and that they talk about in relation to their daughters that what's you know, what, what, what, what is what's going to be happening in the marriage Unknown Speaker 1:28:38 this issue of matter of our own personal interests to me that there is it there might be some way that this choice of St. could work to an event, not a full plugin, but if you think Unknown Speaker 1:28:59 that they're probably going to allocate dollars per head, isn't that Unknown Speaker 1:29:03 isn't that big a plus one. Now they do Unknown Speaker 1:29:07 that it makes it makes it worth the school's while, keep kids in school. I mean, something like that could work against a dropout rate. Well, the only thing that I hear when he talks about choice though, if it's connected to industrial needs or corporate needs, then it's doing things because you can have old school for factory where he's at least students going in their direction. It goes That's where they can figure out a match with all that stuff. Unknown Speaker 1:29:47 Well, it gets income based on the number of students that they have process. You know, it certainly makes it worth their while. I think, you know, this now, any school, I mean, you're going to get your funding basically, whether you have, you know, 50%. So if there's some way I can like, some way like, Unknown Speaker 1:30:25 use that aspect of it Unknown Speaker 1:30:27 to, to improve, you know, to put some sort of onus on the schools to to, you know, Unknown Speaker 1:30:36 meet the needs of a selling point, Unknown Speaker 1:30:39 however, so since you know, nobody. And of course, the idea there is that, well, it will be so economically attractive to educate the students use will be so many dollars attached to the students. And yes, Unknown Speaker 1:30:54 that was the last time. So, let me just so, Unknown Speaker 1:30:57 but again, just there are pieces of that that need to be looked at very closely. Yeah. Point out something that would certainly would have a vested interest in keeping students, then maybe the way that you have assessed interest in giving there is to give what is wanted rather than what is needed in terms of what constitutes education in terms of being able to function? Unknown Speaker 1:31:41 Well, I don't see why you have to have the industrial dollars attached to that, why couldn't you have the choice to move to Sydney would with keeping the private sector out, and just have each child have? So that's how I first understood what you were saying, I Unknown Speaker 1:31:59 didn't realize Unknown Speaker 1:32:00 that there was five seconds. Unknown Speaker 1:32:04 Right, but I have Unknown Speaker 1:32:06 no problem with it is a way that you would go because that's perhaps where a Unknown Speaker 1:32:12 lot of results would come from? Well, I Unknown Speaker 1:32:15 think the I think this way back now that just for business offices, the chance that we'd have for a liaison to now we'll go into what we're to now work with the cooperation of businesses, toward the end of certain kinds of programs, which fits right into food phones, this factory when asked to contact and talk to that person in terms of getting the supply of energy support some of the programs program, instituted Unknown Speaker 1:32:45 schools, where your schools get all that wonderful video equipment. 12 minutes of news that obviously the teacher can teach you what to say in Harvard, I swear to God. The problem with this is that they're going Unknown Speaker 1:33:05 to have a captive audience Unknown Speaker 1:33:06 for those commercials. And this is the whole idea is learning. You know, it was a perfect report that says, you if you have a school and you are going to get all these goodies to try this thing and then throw them out and hopefully they'll have enough sense in that picture, you know, we'll try it for a year and then you get the key. Unknown Speaker 1:33:31 You get all the hardware. Unknown Speaker 1:33:33 I like to suggest also that y'all should also should be programs for minorities that fosters study in humanities because I think it's a shame with this increasing technological society of ours that less and less people that I know are are studying things like people or philosophy and are going into academic disciplines on class.