Unknown Speaker 00:01 To get dietary into the patient's chart, what's the other thing that they do that's not recognized efficiently? My concern is that they have to coordinate all the people who do. In particularly a large medical center where Unknown Speaker 00:37 there's a lot of particularly Unknown Speaker 00:44 an extraordinary amount of time spent on the going wandering. And then involves a lot of people and it involves a lot of people. And the job of a secretary is to mesh those somehow involved in a lot of complexity is not always so nice. So in a sense, except the health care coordinator, which is not to take away what nursing does a lot of excellent. But very different way, because nurses are associated with Secretaries of the open, everybody what you're saying Unknown Speaker 01:43 the nurse is also involved Unknown Speaker 01:47 in the entire board overseeing that. Unknown Speaker 01:54 You know, because at that time, that might not be where you're coming from, but it wouldn't necessarily have the administrator program. Unknown Speaker 02:11 Several, I mean, I'm not saying that I'm generalizing for hospitals. First of all, the other side of things that I see. But it's really interesting. How invisible to even notice. Particularly are it's less so Unknown Speaker 02:38 at least in my experience, the Coordinating Board secretaries before it gets pointed out to them. Definitely not visible to have a real now that let me read to you. Here's a standardized Department of Labor American Hospital Association, job description, job description for hospitals. Unknown Speaker 03:24 What that is, is a couple of reasons from hospitals. And for one secretary. The job requires a high school education, no previous experience. And the working traits expressed his ability to understand procedures and verbal instructions. And its Secretary should have a preference for establishing preparing schedules and verifying they should be important to carry out repetitive operations on a specific coordinate system. It says absolutely nothing about people skills. Working with board secretaries you say will tell you Unknown Speaker 04:09 right away that they will Unknown Speaker 04:12 move on the hospitals we run the wards nothing will happen. If we didn't do it. They had a walkout and demonstrate to the hospital. Now I guess what I'm gonna take off with something that Cheryl was saying about black women, both in the workforce in families and having a history and being at the center of the black community. My experience here is that most of the women are black, came out of high school that a fair number of them had while in high school. So politically racist civil rights kinds of movements. They had also from family and church backgrounds a sense of themselves is to talk about themselves and about their job. I mean, they criticize supervisor bad supervisor. Bad management is somebody who doesn't treat somebody supervisor who does exactly what hospital description says they're supposed to supervise, tell somebody how to do it, it says absolutely impossible to do. The kinds of theories a contradiction between having to coordinate specialized technicians, nurses who are higher up on the color sex hierarchy than they are without, without bossing trying to teach them another set of insights, support, like real health care, this delivered to the extent that we treat each other interpersonally with kind of inter adult respect. And that flies in the face of hospital with doctors a classic face is important. That sort of status doesn't have anything to do with anything else. What there is a kind of informal social network by which we're secretaries treat each other. And one of the things is how to handle these kinds of things. And the standard rule is get taken out of the public sector, hierarchical scheme with public support, and put them in a setting where they have to deal. In that kind of a context, they are able to establish relationships. And it's interesting how consistent people are in sharing. There is a kind of behavior that's appropriate, from one adult to another, and they have to socialize people out there, that this is the way to do all of the public socialization, particularly if they're white, and this could be different. Okay, now, there's also you can do this, with Secretaries have to do to sustain the practice to do their job, but you don't, but that doesn't necessarily involve confronting the official, racist and sexist of work secretaries in the hospital. There are ways that they can act collectively to change where, for example, several women will get together stop one particular which involves a certain amount of risk and a certain amount of collective action, but it simply sets out how far a supervisor can get away with it. It doesn't change the rules of the game is that it's very frustrating to have to each time new personnel. Turnover nurses, and patients and doctors basically show me saying it's a time when they say every year we only get one crop socialized. And he comes in another bunch of times in July, and we got to start all over. And the nurses are always changing. So we got to use and they're aware of the difference between Assam establishing an interpersonal level, it's time to change and this is what they saw themselves doing. Unknown Speaker 09:05 A number of things. Unknown Speaker 09:10 What probably the single clearest summation of what underwrote the walkout was just about running the hospital. So it was really clear that they wanted recognition for the skill that was involved in their job pay, which is not only combined with which is the standard American way of working. And they walked out. It's one of the peace assessments of one Unknown Speaker 09:43 but not only one hospital walked out. Unknown Speaker 09:47 What was interesting was the one who got laid As an administrator, who had said, have one secretaries that does this Literally when they have marvelous time I mean everybody told me this is what has happened to us Unknown Speaker 10:15 before people say you should assume Unknown Speaker 10:22 supervisors didn't know how to work and people who had not been involved with organized labor said you know somebody on the hospital Unknown Speaker 10:43 don't underestimate Unknown Speaker 10:52 what's necessary Unknown Speaker 11:05 part of the stigma Unknown Speaker 11:18 what are the kinds of Unknown Speaker 11:21 interesting because health care jobs a lot of sort of double bonded changes what happens when they call it? Unknown Speaker 12:37 Nature of management systems tell us about that initiate started to spread their responsibility for supplies under the secretaries clerks now the new managers are not US citizens So, as far as what I what I hear in my own personal feelings I have to do the job of the Union most Unknown Speaker 13:31 every patient Unknown Speaker 13:34 trying to get away with the hospital Unknown Speaker 13:40 just changing over again Unknown Speaker 13:49 but there's one respect so, I was wondering Yeah, it sounds what you described as he Unknown Speaker 13:58 sounds more like super fun Secretary so make up people to enjoy Unknown Speaker 14:18 they'll do it themselves, but Unknown Speaker 14:22 I have to say something about the power differences it strikes me that there's always this thing which nobody Unknown Speaker 14:46 I think is going to just quit residency Unknown Speaker 14:51 went to medical school. I'm chubby Unknown Speaker 15:16 that was the biggest thing ever need Unknown Speaker 15:20 any permission Unknown Speaker 15:37 to strike struck was the idea of the charter so that they said we want relaxation of anxiety because Unknown Speaker 16:06 I personally but the difference there of course is the people we're trying to prevent him from going on strike because we see doctors but you're talking about the paper that really presents in my opinion video Unknown Speaker 17:31 what's the same idea can't get a license Unknown Speaker 17:53 unless you've done a year you're editing news Unknown Speaker 18:23 is that your your fifth year in England he was a doctor closely supervised what is the first nine Cisco comes into the residence other than you have to have sounds like oh okay yeah that's what we're yeah we say the same thing about contractors. Unknown Speaker 19:28 It wouldn't be sent out within the hospital this happens in the hospital emergency room allowed Unknown Speaker 20:00 They would pretend to Unknown Speaker 20:08 expect one thing then the federal want to say. Unknown Speaker 20:52 But it's your program. At lunch, we were talking in depth about what we have heard this morning. And I'd like to use some of those concepts in the healthcare system. Now, and that doesn't mean that each one was my personal professional to identify some of the problems are a woman today in the working situation in the health care here, and maybe we're gonna get to that. But I mean, each one of us can talk about responsibility as a professor on Memorial Day that I'm not sure that's going to move us into some of the other aspects of Unknown Speaker 21:33 what political control is the role of the woman worker in the health care. Part of what I want Unknown Speaker 21:41 to maybe, maybe I'm jumping at it, maybe we're getting there. Unknown Speaker 21:46 But part of what I wanted to bring out is that the other side of my research has been not simply the workplace Unknown Speaker 21:59 interviewing people hanging out with people, what becomes clear instead of certainly black working class family, but also white working class family, to a certain extent, are both involved with teaching Unknown Speaker 22:22 notions about what is adult adulthood to develop a sense of autonomy. People do not talk about womanhood, or at least they haven't talked about adult gender neutral but they're talking about learning from their hair and talking about women and talking about how they learned to pick up responsibility for themselves. They're viewed as women of self is totally different from management which is the hijab is a collection of people and you got to prioritize your priorities the job itself what makes you an adult is putting the light beside what's important yourself and this is a tremendous resistance Unknown Speaker 23:37 what the hospital is trying to cover up that your women are no good you're going to stay in a hospital is a wickedly sexist and racist system have family and a community and a force of resistance that only sometimes comes into open confrontation coordinates only. People would be ground to bits if they would be granted this and black women have a way of sharing and sharing the family in the sense of themselves as competent adults to sort of find sexist or racist. Focus on working with versus almost for every doctor pay for everything most of the rest of the hospital workers never Unknown Speaker 25:07 had anything Unknown Speaker 25:10 to focus on. But I think it would be interested to explore some of the Unknown Speaker 25:23 woods that when I put that down you started talking, talking about Unknown Speaker 25:40 fashion never thought of that Unknown Speaker 25:49 I don't think that workers and it's interesting Unknown Speaker 25:55 actually started with the job. And in fact, they're trying to assert, in effect states they have a special knowledge Unknown Speaker 26:08 which we used to. And that that is why there's some of that attention because they're in a situation Unknown Speaker 26:18 right now, a lot of anxiety about what Unknown Speaker 26:24 about nurses? Unknown Speaker 26:27 What is it that separates me from you Unknown Speaker 26:30 the search for your professional identity, it's not unique, but it's interesting that there should arise that other people are trying to separate themselves Unknown Speaker 26:47 thinking about is that to the extent that you sort of approach this with a feminist perspective that we get divided against each other by having sort of buying into the administrative technical definition of the job and what's mine why right disorder do I do this particular thing that short? But what I see as sort of a contention and then this kind of contribution is when Job is not a fight about sweeping the floor or about something else but the job is to deliver health care and health care is with people so the controlling coordinating coordinating action Unknown Speaker 27:46 to get people started don't remember that this is like an institutional test. Like any other normal work that the medical part of Unknown Speaker 28:13 it made me it wasn't just a reaction that was sexless turning elitist Unknown Speaker 28:23 from people whose concerns actually Unknown Speaker 28:25 medical care Unknown Speaker 28:29 as a domain as opposed to we have to work in addition to working class I'm not sure what the response people can afford. Oh, they didn't realize. Right so what we did is we started with Unknown Speaker 29:45 their bonus Unknown Speaker 29:52 there's like an inverse relationship between the amount of things to talk about the relationship We talk about the doctor patient time settings very painful. Unknown Speaker 30:27 Patient so I actually have Unknown Speaker 30:29 other to happier work. And that's my Unknown Speaker 30:35 income stream. Unknown Speaker 30:40 But he's also, I mean, there's a lot of racism, which is part of the reason this particular part of the country I mean, there's a distinction even more Secretaries have a different level of pay bring up the level of pay one second. resistance on the whites, have you seen similarities in the shear problem? So it's, I mean, you're right. It's definitely sexism against women, but it's also racist? Well, Unknown Speaker 32:24 for black women, Warren secretary is probably one of the better, the best paying jobs that might be significant. Unknown Speaker 32:48 On the other hand, there are a lot of words Secretary Blackwoods who have done some graduate work, the same kind of thing exists once that there is a tremendous business training in and out of our hospitals, especially the University Medical Center, jobs. You seen a Unknown Speaker 33:22 student especially students, Unknown Speaker 33:26 go jobs clerk. Unknown Speaker 33:29 They're not committed. Unknown Speaker 33:30 It's different. It's no, it's Unknown Speaker 33:32 a different setting. This is not a people who have been going to school this is a part time job because these are people who are established workers who aren't taking courses Unknown Speaker 33:43 at night, describing a Unknown Speaker 33:46 more mature age group. At least that's what I hear them the younger. The women you're talking about the review of hospital status or job? Did you Unknown Speaker 34:00 get involved in service? A little a little bit? Yeah, Unknown Speaker 34:09 that's usually the lowest there is? Yeah. Well, it certainly always has Unknown Speaker 34:14 been one of the most discriminatory Unknown Speaker 34:16 as far as women and minority groups. In big cities. It's more to do with the black and Hispanic speaking population. Unknown Speaker 34:25 That's possible. It's really saying that the dietician has a beautiful, but there is very little motivation Unknown Speaker 34:37 for bringing that to another Unknown Speaker 34:43 picture. kitchen workers are almost all black women. There are three black men their pay as the worst of the husband. I've not been able to, to do that much in the kitchen, because it's easier for me to hang out with some questions. At some hospitals, education, I am very strict. And as soon as I walk into the kitchen with a supervisor coming in so Unknown Speaker 35:13 looking he can't move into that. Unknown Speaker 35:15 I can't I can't talk to people. And I do know that kitchen is another place another hospital Unknown Speaker 35:26 there isn't the same. It wasn't as good I'm not quite sure what it was opened up a whole bunch of new jobs for women to progress up Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was it isn't. It isn't real mobility. It's it's adding steps grades, you know, cook one cook to organize Unknown Speaker 36:12 but I want to I want to talk about something else that I haven't just from a feminist perspective, and that is that militants has, has come from predominantly black women. One of the things that I've been involved in almost all of you don't, people don't walk out, walking out, they walk out his Portable Network. And they walk out as part of your network, informal work socializing, going to people's birthdays and shower showers. Unknown Speaker 36:52 And if there isn't that Unknown Speaker 37:00 you have to have Unknown Speaker 37:03 multiple streams, that kind of relationship. My sense about hospital work. If you could organize from a feminist perspective that is go with where people are, rather than as people Unknown Speaker 37:26 an organizer and trying to organize. I was really upset. People just really burned me. And it's allowed me to push the limit installation to get a panel of women to talk to a non oil. And after it was over, I felt like several of the women got Unknown Speaker 38:03 raked over the coals. Unknown Speaker 38:11 I mean, we were at risk. What if we said something we could have screwed up and I said you didn't know better than anybody else. As I listed, what dawned on me is a simple thing that goes on the sort of solidarity among women in the theater, every time I've seen a woman sort of become a spokesman. It's always been well, I guess an anthropology that took that institutionalized Indian peasants if somebody gets money, everybody else trackers economic. Well, there's a lot of that gossip. And I think there's a positive side to it is saying that this person has been offered to move out and put the upwardly mobile and in a work setting it means to be a supervisor training. Unknown Speaker 39:33 I think that's especially because in becoming a supervisor then that person is older and someone who wasn't here to take orders from being trained. Powers just simply speak out What is the difference? And be super super? I mean, why Unknown Speaker 40:11 not? I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, this is something that theoretically it shouldn't be right. Unknown Speaker 40:17 But then they were they uncomfortable with being identified Unknown Speaker 40:26 with the public and identified publicly visible Unknown Speaker 40:30 even though they had those feelings the political feelings they had that they didn't want to be pointed out Unknown Speaker 40:36 I don't think it was so much retribution I mean there were I can understand that I'm not sure that there's a whole lot of things that go on and it's hard for me to have a problem like that you don't want to get you don't want to get punished Unknown Speaker 40:55 as type of visibility that's the reality you know as a woman or as you know, X kind of person in any kind of an organizational press person who's afraid for her job in this kind of Unknown Speaker 41:27 something I mean which is not to say that a lot Unknown Speaker 41:32 of men are listen to speak out Unknown Speaker 41:36 every man will be a lot more of them up there but it's just a whole lot of things I can't quite store down part of it I think of it having from customers that was a woman's the oldest social selling Woman Unknown Speaker 42:03 Yeah, well that's all right. What the person is doing on the job nothing they try but Unknown Speaker 42:12 the thing that strikes me is that how incompletely they're doing it okay. And I think that's part of the reason that division of jobs which has no real social scientific controlling people but when I see I don't know to what extent men's workplaces do this and I know that there's informal shop for culture in any workplace or in hospitals in offices for the sort of stamp showers there's like a party or a dinner or breakfast on every unit we could get really sad Unknown Speaker 43:03 I noticed that the business of getting something in my unit she has some believe Unknown Speaker 43:24 in him she can borrow a PDF it's Unknown Speaker 43:30 definitely supposed to be there with you can't get it Unknown Speaker 44:00 80%? With each other Unknown Speaker 44:53 there is a real there's a real conflict every time Unknown Speaker 44:59 you cuz I'm hearing what you're saying. And I know and I think it's good to see for women to see how they're identified in the healthcare system and how best they can survive and bring themselves up and also have some kind of positive relationship to Unknown Speaker 45:37 them but they haven't knew rather than Unknown Speaker 45:48 a supportive person and I think that's one of the other we see now even though like people who want to play Medicare there are more women who are going into medical practice they are not much different than that and so I'm not saying God always does so but the system sometimes doesn't help in the role the woman has think Unknown Speaker 46:34 like it's sort of theory I mentioned the doctor hands on everyone better getting things kind of Jolly you along get rid of Unknown Speaker 46:57 everything get really good we can get back to our work and these are the different camps in particular just to get Unknown Speaker 47:09 that what does that really get away Unknown Speaker 47:17 yeah, right but it's kind of Unknown Speaker 47:21 letting come and do his thing and okay we fit into the system Unknown Speaker 47:29 so that we can do because we have to have a student Unknown Speaker 47:35 that we can get back to being ourselves and coming out of here Unknown Speaker 48:01 I'm not I'm not saying that Unknown Speaker 48:15 some of the relationships will change on so that Unknown Speaker 49:06 at the bottom people who feeling as part of the team getting rid of their sexism Unknown Speaker 49:40 to be able to learn for example some of you we should talk about particularly because some of the ways the things that is taking place because a friend of mine who's a practical nurse in the Midwest was involved Unknown Speaker 51:06 with virtually everybody who did killing people understand overwhelm the main thing that pulls people together these people who wrote it so people together from time to time take people's credit responsibly didn't exactly make a comparison to the test track and that is morning we have Unknown Speaker 53:13 constantly been attached to Unknown Speaker 53:19 it really unloaded again Unknown Speaker 53:38 very very strong hospital patient Unknown Speaker 54:13 care picked up on the news but I just want to say it means what was the feeling of the university that they picked up there it didn't mean any other kinds of things The problem in health care is when one goes Unknown Speaker 55:06 to work and nurses have only recently gone I know the episode doctors nurses Unknown Speaker 55:18 I know the health care system is different than another but in other cases it you know if one group strikes you know, then you the other group might not cross the picket line and supportive measures but you don't do that Unknown Speaker 55:34 because they're too job yeah No they can't you know, it's not really that prompt and woman very often being the nurse or the lab technician or the food service, whatever it is. Sometimes those people will pick up that but I remember when somebody Stryker mobile hospital and some professional staff were running the elevator but they didn't think they were strike and when we sat down and talked to limited even though they're the patients involved, but your strike rate I think and it was very very well put together radical but it didn't sell sounds Unknown Speaker 56:34 like they're really Unknown Speaker 56:36 caring for the patient. I know it's a conflict but I think any other industries where there's a striking supportive group will not cross the picket line but the woman Unknown Speaker 56:48 what happened after the swim Unknown Speaker 56:51 me the particularly okay they won they wouldn't pay increases so that they were at a key level like secretaries relationships the relationship relationship continues to be shoveling sand in some sense there was a grudging respect from the Secretary made that assessment because it simply doesn't make sense Unknown Speaker 57:42 you have to get to that there's a lot of that stuff, but a certain amount is in a sense, solidifying a sense of themselves. We tested it, everyone liked it. And it got an esprit de corps they also Unknown Speaker 58:17 were able to talk authority have. A lot of. Evening, get the most out under paid and living up Unknown Speaker 59:48 there right up there with retail sales. Domestic Workers Unknown Speaker 1:00:00 get into some of the women when is the laundry Unknown Speaker 1:00:12 it might be a better situation than even the domestic Unknown Speaker 1:00:20 are protected as always I wanted to ask you because we talked about the issue of crossing a picket fence between what motivates people to develop interpersonal relations it's a collective is also the same thing so that what brings people together what I think Unknown Speaker 1:01:13 you're actually working Unknown Speaker 1:01:15 it doesn't seem to be which Unknown Speaker 1:01:24 I think it's true Unknown Speaker 1:01:26 that having people who have all these friends crazy Unknown Speaker 1:01:54 they feature bad we're gonna get more money here and I think it's Unknown Speaker 1:02:07 easier to talk about talking about the one Unknown Speaker 1:02:14 I really liked Unknown Speaker 1:02:44 think we've been away from the hospital it will be there evening real estate Unknown Speaker 1:03:43 the word respect is something that everybody looks at, it has to do is that there is Unknown Speaker 1:03:53 respect that is Unknown Speaker 1:03:56 my position and then there's the other which I do to me as a person as an adult Unknown Speaker 1:04:18 I think they're really different than Unknown Speaker 1:04:21 or having the same mystification process of kind of ideology. ideology, homes Unknown Speaker 1:04:34 is the same kind of thing. Unknown Speaker 1:04:37 When a new light comes about family, they're talking about what is and so, what people experienced but they want enlightenment There's a much more extensive base of the egalitarian romanticize but they should all look like promontories ideal and what people are really fighting to preserve the autonomy the interdependence between networks and into adult notions of respect that I think come from Unknown Speaker 1:05:30 the general Unknown Speaker 1:05:32 family organization this is called the literature economist people who have used talking about organizations with the US Department so, this is the delta not adequate for different kinds of different colors okay so that is for example collective struggle extent Unknown Speaker 1:06:45 necessary really different Unknown Speaker 1:06:58 fashion in the mystical to this and I want Unknown Speaker 1:07:34 to actually go to it's great Unknown Speaker 1:07:47 to come to conference international way women get right Unknown Speaker 1:08:04 under cover manipulating different means that will take Unknown Speaker 1:08:19 months the past 10 years Unknown Speaker 1:08:28 that is what they're talking about Unknown Speaker 1:08:33 these people are striking for health care they're just emphasizing their own every day and lunch every day this is relationship changing Unknown Speaker 1:09:39 in the past position as well When you think about Unknown Speaker 1:10:19 it some of the opinions of particular I almost never Unknown Speaker 1:11:29 use it but not almost striking particularly a feminist perspective Unknown Speaker 1:11:41 rather than whether you're male or female I think men who have this kind of relationship have a pretty good feminist perspective and a pretty egalitarian way of people it's so many issues to raise status because nobody really cares to make better Unknown Speaker 1:12:34 whatever kind of cliche unfortunately or whatever I think tend to be more than Unknown Speaker 1:12:45 that you see you used to have the stereotype of socialized medicine because it's Unknown Speaker 1:12:58 easier to do it's always easier to write Unknown Speaker 1:13:07 for everybody or Unknown Speaker 1:13:10 the friend of mine was getting married credit Unknown Speaker 1:13:17 could be the worst. So when a man says medicine because what it says have you thought about what I think at least something really important whereas I think I think concern in the south Unknown Speaker 1:14:30 compared to say 510 years ago today something like Unknown Speaker 1:14:59 that The profession that more women go into a declining standard that is their status Unknown Speaker 1:15:34 report that you will lose earlier a look at the institution is that I think there's a lot of different things going into a racist medical school approach to medical school throwing out any look at the statistics for the number and the number is the other side of the Institute of Medicine is being pushed out in favor of centralized medical people in syndrome HMO is something that pays you money regardless of whether you get sick or if you look for your services Yeah, yeah the administration Unknown Speaker 1:17:16 there hmm I mean I grew up on here Unknown Speaker 1:17:21 and I took my first job so I could have what is happening is the other brothers turning their dogs into American Standards very well paid hustle assembly line workers why Kaiser delivers health care so cheap does all sorts of things to keep people from using activity trying to take bookings Unknown Speaker 1:18:05 kind of what you're doing Unknown Speaker 1:18:11 this is a case complicated, but ever since World War Two, because of large corporations under those corporations have independent Doc's. They don't have to pay less for their health care insurance. One of the ways of cutting down their corporations is to have efficient health care. Along comes Pfizer, and all kinds of things I can sign up. Unknown Speaker 1:18:57 What Kaiser does is Unknown Speaker 1:19:03 to make the conditions of work increasingly more like that of the rest of the piece, increasingly controlled through the kinds of circumstances that are here in terms of residents in your country as compared to some other parts of the country in terms of what is happening Unknown Speaker 1:20:00 To look precisely from one system to another, or something else long as we're just going to be stuck Unknown Speaker 1:20:26 with