Unknown Speaker 00:01 And then back down again. So the theory will end up not being just a reflection of the unconscious assumptions of those who make it and in practice, today, most of the people who make it are white, middle class progeny. That's not totally true. There's a lot of black lesbian feminist theory that's coming up some black feminist theory, and Hispanic is also beginning to attend a conference. But by and large, I think that's been one of the sources of alienation is that the general truths that have been proclaimed, have only applied to some women. And so one of my purposes in doing this workshop was to try to start building theory that can accommodate the experiences of more than one group of women. Another reason I was interested in it was the kind of double the several kinds of double messages, I certainly got about the power of my sexuality. So one of the things I wanted to do is checkout, everyone had gotten into whether they were in different forms in different cultural contexts. And three of the ways that that I felt these go messages were one, which I call the Mary Jane Sharpie, or the civilization hangs in the balance, who is the one that says the power of women's sexuality is so insatiable, so strong, was so violent, that in order to have Western civilization, it had to be tamed. Okay, that's one dog kind of double message. Another kind of double message may have grown out of that I'm not an expert on history of sexuality. So I don't know, which is what I call the Victorian model, where is and the wild nature model, at least we're active, we're seen as dangerous because we as women are sexually powerful. In the Victorian model, we're seen as passive, somehow we exude this sexual force that makes men rather than beasts. But we ourselves are still seen as passive. So that's another kind of double message about the power of female sexuality. And a third time that I grew up with was what I call the pillow talk model. The idea that women cannot go out into what has been defined by men as the world and exercise our own power directly. But we can do that indirectly, through our sexuality, that by seduction, by persuasion, by giving and holding of sexual favors, we can influence our environments to some extent. So for me, those are the three double edged models of female sexuality that I grew up with. And I would be very interested in starting to find out whether those are universal, and what forms do they occur in different cultural contexts. Another another motive that I had to workshop was a kind of dead spot, and the literature that I started reading, and just having women, ordinary women communicating our sexual experiences in print, there are some books with that kind of information. But for most of our history, we I think, have been dependent on our immediate environment. For information on sexuality, whether we and our friends talk about sexuality is a big question. It's still I think, very difficult for many women. to sort of get down to the nitty gritty, I think it's gotten easier. We've had consciousness raising groups and the women's movement. But if a woman does not have access to that kind of friendship, or two circles in which it's permitted to have that kind of conversation, I think she still is very isolated and thinking about her sexuality. And that's why I feel that some books like Sherry heights reports on her questionnaire, the Nancy Friday book fantasies. Carla J. Ellen Young's report on their gay questionnaire are very important and I wish we had more of that I wish more of our ordinary sexual experiences were in print and more accessible. Unknown Speaker 04:59 And again, The whole question of being print has to do with race and class who gets into print? Well, mainly white, middle class educated people. So that's another aspect that I think we really need to work on is expanding the embrace of our record, so that we don't have partial visibility, so that all groups of women have equal access to this crime information. It's also interesting to start to see what's happening. And so the research that's now getting into the mainstream, mainly, was done in the 40s and 50s. Some in the 60s, the sort of starting place for all talking about white female sexuality is the Kinsey report, which was published in the 50s. And the work was done in the 1940s mean, Kinsey interviewed blacks, but he did not feel that he had enough in his sample of nonpoint participants to make valid statistical statement. So when you read the Kinsey report, remember to put white in front of the word woman all the time. And even those those statistics are old, they, as I understand, seem to hold up fairly well. In fact, between 1940 and 1980, there does not seem to be a huge change in female sexuality. I understand that there's some increase, and elite, of course, among heterosexual couples, but if you're gonna get Kinsey statistics, for example, on masturbation among white women, he had some people were born for the point that he had most there's only a 10% difference in their incidence of aspiration, I guess, women more accurate. So that may be a fourth kind of double power message that we're getting, we're told we're living in the age of sexual liberation. And that's for sure VR. And it hasn't been till the 1970s that we really have very many books. from a feminist perspective on women's sexuality. Many of them have had to do with pre orgasmic women, trying to give women a sense of how we can take our sexuality literally into our own hands. And I think that's very important as a start to our thinking about our sexual power, and who has the we have it ourselves, or to someone else yet. I do want to give you some of the information that I got from the Kinsey report granted all the reservations about it, because I think it's, it's interesting in terms of understanding where we're coming from. For instance, if you look at how people figured out how to masturbate, he has prepared figures for all women and all men in his sample. Again, I'll point 57% of the women fan up by what he calls self discovery, somehow stumbled on to only 20% of events and 75% of the men found out from verbal and written information. So that to me, says there's a lot, which we in some ways already know. But it's very specifically, there's a lot more privatization of women's sexuality. We don't talk to each other as much we don't read as much. Talk per se. I don't know whether petting is still a viable, actual activity. None of the men so again, to me an extra is more autonomy for the males that that the men have already figured it out. They didn't mean heterosexual couple activity or lesbian couple activity to show them how to do it. 40% of the men found out by observation, only 11% of the women again, much more private. And 3% of the women and 9% of the men fan of estimates for homosexual content, which is a much larger percentage than I think, mythology heterosexual psychology. Unknown Speaker 09:48 And another interesting difference is when women were to mastering because opposed to men, by age 12 21% That's a fifth of all men are already mastered. only 12% of women. By the time you get to age 20 92% of men, only 1/3 33% of women. So I think you can see in what ways our power is missing. Another thing that was interesting about masturbation figures were, the men's figures seem to be pretty independent of what level of education they preached. But the women's go steadily up. It's 34% for grade school, and it goes up to 63% for graduate. Unknown Speaker 10:54 We, we have those of us who didn't find out on your own, it takes a larger educational environment. Is there any study about how many women might not have said that they're masturbating? I didn't have a language for it, I kept looking to find out what I was doing was masturbating. I didn't know, I think, in the interview process, because these were not just paper pencil questionnaires. This was a very carefully worked out interview process, that they had ways of dealing with getting people to match the technical name with what in fact that we're doing. But that's one of the things I am very interested in is when do we get our names? And I have a series of questions to pass out later. One of them is did you have feelings but no names? Because it's teper, written sitting in the back row says that for which we have named hints toward me, crazy, dirty, bad someone by research, and she says now that she Yes. So I mean, that's something that's true. And there's nothing you can do. I mean, you've got these pieces of paper with these fingers on them. And then the best we've got, you know, I don't I don't have enough expertise, statistics to know which way you have this. Yeah, I think men are very proud of Unknown Speaker 12:24 our crowd. Nine. Unknown Speaker 12:28 That was interesting to me, though, is they recording those data, a majority of men felt guilt, and only 47% were under a majority women felt guilty about masturbation. So yes, I agree with you. But there's also something else going on. And I don't except maybe not having a name for it. So. Unknown Speaker 12:48 So yeah, yeah, this was four years ago. Is there anything else can done? It's been a substantive Yes. Unknown Speaker 12:54 And what not as substantial. But what the trend is, is that it seems to substantiate pretty much what what the speaker said. And that's part of what I was saying at the beginning, we do not have evidence of really missed changes, although we have been told that we have undergone massive changes. And that's another place where our experience and what we're told but authority figures that our experiences don't match. And I think that's part of what I'm trying to find. I'm saying it's not as substantial as the Kinsey report. But I mean, the size of the samples have not been as large particularly statistically well, and they have not diverged that much. Unknown Speaker 13:40 And then how to limit masturbate, mostly budget, manipulation of various contents, he wants to know what's good 84% and 2% of women are able to reach masturbation through fantasy and what we command that's very real. I think that's that's also interesting that we have saved some corner of our heads who are the erotic still has enough power to bring us the orgasm, and that men have not 2% but it may bring on muscular tensions within reach orgasm. Then I want to talk a little bit about there hasn't been as much work done on comparing and contrasting histories with women who at some point in their lives, labeled themselves lesbians versus Sisters of women who label themselves heterosexual but I did try to find some about that. Unknown Speaker 15:00 When I mean, when you're talking about a 10 year old, I think it's misleading to say those intersections, you have to work with retrospective studies where you take someone who's now 30 is calling herself a lesbian, you go back and you say, Well, what were you doing? So then you say, Where's me it's when they're 10 do that, which I think is not quite according to our experience. But about a third of the Kinsey sample reported same sex play before puberty and a third record of opposite sex. So before puberty, we're sort of missing around equal. However, in other studies, what quite severe in Robins, there seems to be evidence that women who later call themselves lesbians are more involved in heterosexual activity than women who later call themselves homosexual as heterosexual at an early age, in other words, before age 16 There seems to be somewhat more opposite sex activity with women who later call themselves lesbians, and more heterosexual intercourse. Before 14, half of these are now men, gay men and women together, half of them recorded opposite sex attachments, plus 80% of them reported same sex romantic attachment. Now on the terms of this study, romantic attachment does not mean physical experience being having. But that shows that in general, people who later call themselves gay and have had a broader spectrum of sexual experience than people who later call themselves heterosexual. Which expose a myth it's often used on lesbians, which is they have no choice because they haven't been able to do it. Unknown Speaker 17:14 And another point, which has to do with a lot of myths about that seemed to be especially strong for men. Whether or not you are gay, and how you know, when you know, up to 10% of the adolescents do same sex really do come up gay, but that means 90% Don't. And up to 31% of gay adults, and this was in an English study, I don't know, if it's really generalizable to the United States, but it's all up to 31% of gay adults had no same sex activity until after high school. So a third were Wait, so to speak. Another point, I think that's really important is how we label seems to us as we think about it, I think I certainly for myself to be determined by our sexual history. But important a point of fact, studying short and warm Stein on bisexuals turn off the fact that people with very similar sexual histories label themselves differently according to what sub cultural group they feel there is, in other words, someone may have had the same series of different partners in their launch partners have different genders, Amanda calling themselves lesbian, because that's the group that she has come to feel as per group, someone else might have a very similar history and end up calling yourself bisexual because she feels it's her group, etc. So that's another mythology. And I want to get into this a little bit more later talking about dualism is that you have to be one or the other. And once you're in, you're that forever. That does not seem to hold true again, with life as it's actually live. They were, I think, rather surprised to find how many people have changed toys, the gender option. Another thing they found in that study that interested me a great deal, besides the fact that it was very hard for harder for boys to deal with the single gay experience in adolescence than it was for girls. Was them for men. And this is true for both their heterosexual and homosexual experience. Their first experience tends much more to be a paid experience with a stranger and for women, also, for both their heterosexual and their lesbian experience, their first experience tends to be the process of a gradual deepening of intimacy that has quite a history. So I sometimes think that and even I do it myself as a lesbian activist. You We make too much of the difference between heterosexual and lesbian. I mean, the brute fact is we are all socialized. And I think that the commonality of that is something we haven't made really explicitly said in our rhetoric, exactly how that works on us and why we come to different conclusions. It is another thing I would like to see sexual theory, feminist sexual theory deal with. We I don't know it's worth getting the answer. And then talking about how many lesbians there are, of course, we don't know. 30% of the white females that Kinsey talked to have had at least one homosexual experience to orgasm by HPV. As you may or may not know, there's something called the Kinsey scale, which starts at zero with the ever homosexual thought in your head to six with never heterosexual thought in your head, I'm exaggerating somewhat, but he does both behavior and fantasy and you have to check your scales. Are they talking about fantasy? Are they talking about behavior, six to orgasm, he's talking about a combination. Six to 17% of his 45 year old incidents were four, five and six on the Kinsey scale, ie, mostly homosexual, more or less, all homosexual and total homosexual in the population. And he did also a comparison on the percent of contexts leading to orgasm between in the fifth year of marriage, and long life lesbian relationships. Unknown Speaker 21:50 Now 0% of contracts leading to orgasm, in other words, the woman did not have orgasm and any perceptual experiences with her partner was 17% for the women who were married, heterosexual, and 7%. For the women who were in extended lesbian relationships, going through the other end of the scale. Women for orgasm happened in sex with their partners 90 to 100% of the time, close to 40% of the married women and 68% of us so that in some it's it's it's also interesting to read the literature because but canting and I remember reading the Time Magazine review, the Masters and Johnson book on homosexuality, say perhaps men would learn something about making lesbians which, again, I think is a kind of double edge to because one of the myths about lesbians is that we are men. And I feel a little resentful as a lesbian of having someone want to use my expertise retain power over Yes. Unknown Speaker 23:05 I think some problem with that native though is a lot of them don't even know when they're having orgasms. What am I remember, a friend of mine has been high school and you know, yes. So you mean in this is now you know, when presumably gone through the sexual revolution. And then if they're interviewing some women who are older, and not even sure about talking about their own sexuality, let alone defining and Unknown Speaker 23:32 theoretically, I think, cross cut, it would change the statistics for married heterosexual and for lesbians in the same way. So whatever it's doing, it's doing to both of them. And I assumed that the proportion would stay the same. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 23:49 So that all of this relating Unknown Speaker 23:54 has to do with a great deal because the reason cancel recent report said that response same sex response, the same. People went through a homosexual relationship Unknown Speaker 24:17 are you talking about in a specific terms of orgasm, not necessarily expertise, but while I was talking about as a lesbian having was my chance to say, Oh, wow. I wasn't talking about gender roles, which I think would be wonderful. And then, the only place I could find any kind of clear information on on racial breakdown within the lesbian movement was in a book called homestead. sexualities by Weinberg. And I can't think the other, well, thank you. And one place, you really see the racism and sexism of our society is in samples. If you look at the size of samples and who gets into the sample, it's white. And if you're dealing with a male female situation, as in human sexuality, it's the size and sample of male white males. And this book is considerably larger than any other. And they say the pork butt overweight, that financial Institute of Mental Health funded, this was not interesting statistics. So they have 29 whitelist. blacklist, if you're using statistics, which are out there, definitely looking into marriage. And 35% of the white lesbians, wherever they're at 47%, Black lesbians. And this is much lower than the comparable time and a couple of percentages from in game is St. Mary less, which fits in with what we've all said about the pressure on women, despite whatever your sexuality. About half of the married white lesbians have kids, and three quarters of American black lesbians have kids. So this is very dangerous, statistically. But that would give you some fat 17 or 18% of all white lesbians have children and about 35% of all black lesbians have children? I have no idea whether that's true because they are single sample. Okay. One theoretical areas I've been very interested in is the whole question of dualism, which I think may help us to organize our talking a little bit. We, I think in this culture have inherited thinking posits a, b, and not only posits a and b, not ABCDEFG, Z, for instance, look at invisibility other minorities, the black, it seems impossible for the dominant majority to deal with the fact that there's more than one other now. Look at the way we look at gender we can only conceive of to look at the way we look at almost anything. And it seems as though we're comfortable with more than two possibilities. Not only that those, when you only have two possibilities that mean you're for what means your whole world has to be one or the other of those. That also means that more for one is less for the other, to imagine big circle with the division. Anytime you move that division, the size of the portions is going to change. Therefore, we have you see it all over very clearly, for instance, in psychology, where they do masculinity and femininity scales, and one of the great contributions from feminists psychologist, great that Sandra bem showed that it was not impossible to be both highly feminine and highly masculine, even in traditional cultural definitions. But the way psychology has gone about its measurement up till then has been more of one, you were less than the other and that is how their scales were constructed. And I think that female sexuality is very much banned. First in the question of how more power for one person is less power for the other person? We have our basic familial structures and diet is that physical? Do we have the notion somewhere that more sexuality for one is what sexuality and I'm not sure that's when it comes to school? Unknown Speaker 29:16 The Lesbian to me is a good example of that. We're trying to break out many of us from the standard cultural definitions of male and female. But that seems real hard for people to deal with justice. It's really hard for people to deal with men stepping out of it, even though people often say, you know, let's change sexuals sometimes I've also heard women say oh god, human sexuality, creep, and cetera, et cetera. So that I think we need to look at how we think about our sexuality. Do we get caught into this trend of dualism? When you say dualism are you talking about the conflict, which resolved itself? No, yes, but I couldn't find it. Okay. choices impact to be one or the other, and you can't be both. That's what I'm talking about. But we should write our culture says as we want, or the black or white male or female, young or old on him. And that, that I see be a part of the theoretical disturbance that lesbians causes we don't want to be not in the traditional definition of male or female, we don't want to be. And all efforts at androgyny are gonna disturb that kind of dualism. Yeah, I think you're in a state you just made it's, it's almost a trans historical sent that I think you have to look at different places. I can remember nearly five years ago where there wasn't a push policy journal actually, political line was it was more matriarch. Right, that, um, betting approximately, yes. And I don't want to make it seem that all lesbians must or should want that, because we have opted for as many different solutions to that problem as everybody else has. There have been people who have accepted lesbians who have accepted the fact that there's one or the other, and you live within that framework. That's what Yonezawa was talking about this morning, and how in some ways we've Dishonored those. Yeah. Alright, some people have raised the feminine, the feminine, wanting almost to wipe out that and other people are trying to unite them so you can do the cool things. But the framework seems to be still there, affecting how we react to it anyway. Oh, yeah, I would agree. No hyper agile. So then we come to the question of passion. And my sense is that passion is what breaks you out of it. It doesn't leave space for I can't say it better than ordinary boards that in her article. The erotic is power, which she has given his speeches in. It's also in a pamphlet by Aetna post, but is also in this issue of Chris watts. She says there are many kinds of power used and unused, acknowledged or otherwise. The erotic is a resource within each of us that lies in a deeply female and spiritual plane firmly rooted in the power of our unexpressed or unrecognized in order to perpetuate itself, every oppression was corrupt or distort those various sources of power within the culture of the oppressed, that can provide energy or change. For women, this was meant a suppression of the Iran as a considered source of power and information within our lives. From skipping and going on to another paragraph, we have been raised to fear the yes within ourselves, our deepest cravings for the demands of our released expectations lead us inevitably into actions, which will bring our laws into accordance with our needs, our knowledge, our desires. And the fear of our deepest cravings, keeps them suspect keeps us docile, and loyal and obedient, and leads us to so forth, or except many facets of our oppression as women. And I like to stop my part talking with them. What I would like to do in the time we have left Unknown Speaker 34:13 is keep the large group for to do a few exercises that I made up to see how we are supposed to do and we were coming from, but since it's so large, I don't see how you can report and discuss those in a large performance. So after we sort of go through the experience, I'd like to make smaller groups so that people can talk to each other about them and try to come up as in the last 15 minutes or so some kind of summation. There are three main questions that I came here with. Were we all brought up to feel their sexuality was powerful, but also dangerous to our safety? And how does that sense of danger interact with race in class? is dangerous. And the second question is what is a sexually powerful woman? Is she different in different cultural contexts? If so, what are pictures? And three? Is such a woman a turn on? Does she fit in our erotic fantasies and or realities? That is, do we identify with her? We find her attractive? Would we like to be like her? If not, why not? I'm going to pass out some materials, which the first page of which is the exercises I'd like to do, and I'll read them and and sort of give you signals when to move on to the next trend. Unknown Speaker 35:41 Can I make a comment? That one of the difficulties that I personally find to talk about a lot of issues, especially, culturally, is that the starting place for discussion of those ambitions have already me personally, I've Unknown Speaker 35:59 heard the language and even before that depends on what you said. I've already? I don't know. I mean, it's already so Unknown Speaker 36:15 this discussion is no. I'm just saying that. The way that it has been set out, and I feel that, for me, personally, a more comfortable place to really talk so much more rooted is stark, psychosexual history. And the place of black women, black women, as a symbol of revival for white men, and the use of them being able to do that themselves so that adorn slave and black women have another whole kind of question that we're trying to move to it, especially black. And I love the assumptions of what you're saying. I still I don't, I don't know whether I agree or disagree. But I think there are assumptions Unknown Speaker 37:02 that I do want to take some time and talk about that. And then Unknown Speaker 37:06 I'm not just one of the assumptions was, Are you saying that masturbation is an indication of sexual power? Because that seems to be a place Unknown Speaker 37:14 that it's the only place you can see a woman acting by herself, that you can measure a map and see, yeah, a woman Unknown Speaker 37:21 or a man. So So you define that what that actually by yourself as a measure of session. Unknown Speaker 37:29 I'm not saying it's the best measure, I'm saying it's the only measure that I see that we have now. And not sexual power, in the sense that I was talking about before. One of the things that the women researches, as well as a woman for basketball is much more likely to do. That is only when, again, researchers don't know a large percentage of the Unknown Speaker 38:11 working class, and I'm just trying to Unknown Speaker 38:13 find I don't know about working class black women, I do know that the women's research has been more motivation. Certainly. Unknown Speaker 38:27 And, and that's why that's one of the places that people are saying is the basis for the Women's Business, this masturbation that leads to orgasm, orgasm. Even just from a Unknown Speaker 38:47 psychological standpoint, the person is in touch with their own sexuality, you know, with themselves, it would, it would, you know, you could assume maybe that with other people, or with someone else, they are more in touch with what they like to do. I Unknown Speaker 39:08 think what I'm having problems with, but nowhere in here is the point that your sexuality, your expression of sexuality, as black people, as a man and woman is intrude, is interfered with by the racism of a society. So even if I can masturbate, and I feel great. There's still so many other kinds of cultural, ideological, physical, economic, political things that happen that make life relating to a person and life very difficult. And I'm saying that if we're talking about empowerment, from my perspective, that I would have to first talk about economic empowerment so that I can express myself Unknown Speaker 39:51 because that takes away from you as central Unknown Speaker 39:53 person, when I'm not going to do one thing in my bedroom, but in order for me to really relate to someone outside This especially someone of the same way, the same way, same, not the same. There are some to me that other kinds of factors that that disempowerment take away my power. I don't see that reading into the fact that I have no political or economic or social cultural. Unknown Speaker 40:19 Yeah, I mean, that's what I was talking about getting when I say that I don't have that information from my experience. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have this workshop, because I'm tired of theory that I had to start from the assumptions I had. But when I'm talking about has that sense of danger, intersect with race and class dangers and strength, exactly what you're talking about as what I was trying to get to it so that we don't, I don't do that kind of blind assuming that my world is everybody's world and starting from where I started, for everything. So so that the way that our, our social context, hit our sexualities is part of the thing that I can use Unknown Speaker 41:12 for you, when you first have to encounter some notion of your own sexual. These were the kinds of questions and Unknown Speaker 41:22 that's when I started doing research, for example, and this is another example of how racism works in the culture. Not being in the field of sexology, I started the one thing that I could easily put my hand on that I knew how to watch party stuffing, what can Kinsey report right? And I did look, for other materials, it was not in the mainstream enough that I could get at it without becoming a sexologist or knowing where to go. So I reproduced in that way, what was going on in the mainstream, but at the same time, I would really like to see other information coming and not having had the sources to go to I didn't have Yeah, just wanted to I think it's different. And Unknown Speaker 42:15 certainly people that I see here, we had to reschedule at the same time, so probably waiting for them. Unknown Speaker 42:24 She has to Unknown Speaker 42:38 understand that it's not just changes the whole dimension. way that's been so pervasive. And Unknown Speaker 42:50 I think that was this morning, and it's talking about the possibility that, that sexuality is a very different issue for people who need it to survive very basic levels. When you're not producing enough for replacement, and you can see the forces are injured that are that are at work and destroying your people. I think that's a real different kind of sexuality. Choices. Yeah. Was asked you to find sexual. Okay, that's part of what I would like to see coming out in here. What do we see as a sexually powerful moment? I don't have a definition. Do you see a difference between sexual power as an abstract and a sexually powerful man, I think but I'm Unknown Speaker 43:44 not clear in terms of Unknown Speaker 43:47 power generally, Unknown Speaker 43:49 to move someone else to do something. Unknown Speaker 43:53 Now, what are you talking about? Sexual sexuality. Unknown Speaker 44:10 I'm talking about the second time that you were talking about the ability to make a space for ourselves to be active in ourselves to feel cold, to feel that we are making the choices. The choices have been made for us. Unknown Speaker 44:32 Sorry, I don't know your day. Did you raise an excellent point? I wonder if they should issue whether we got to talk about sexual autonomy or whether masturbation what does the patient provides is autonomy in their partner or what can happen, but what about the possibility of obtaining some form of sexual satisfaction without a male female? I don't know you Unknown Speaker 45:15 doesn't have? Are you saying that autonomy is created? I don't I don't Unknown Speaker 45:28 know that it's powerful. Yeah, it's totally irrelevant. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 45:33 to destination. Destination Unknown Speaker 45:36 gives you power. It does. Unknown Speaker 45:39 I think whether that's good or bad, we put this aside, you know, like in the society set up the freedom with the heterosexual man, I think all women women, we had a sexual way. That's the Unknown Speaker 45:55 that's the freedom more Unknown Speaker 46:00 pressing, pressing, Unknown Speaker 46:02 because we still live in a rather impressive set. The white heterosexual male is allowed to be more expressive, it's not so oppressed by the stigmas in the culture, then, I think many lesbian women and black women, probably black demisexual women are on the lower echelons of that scale. Unknown Speaker 46:31 I just want to find out something for myself before we go on. How many people here feel a contradiction between sexuality and power? You know that we're talking about different things. And power the the issue that that Ronnie Unknown Speaker 46:49 is abstract. It's going Yeah, I would. And I feel like, What is the theme that you open up was that? I mean, you said you felt alienated. And I feel like, I don't know where to begin. It seems like every word that that we use, whether it's sexuality or power, or autonomy is drastically needed in your son patient. Empowerment itself, as we need to find out approach it, but I mean, why don't you question the whole thing about masturbation? I thought, yeah, you know, I personally have a lot of trouble considering masturbation as an index of anything. Because there's a lot of discontinuity between what I experienced masturbating and then what happens when you relate to other manners. And I don't know whether, you know, orgasms criteria for feeling as powerful as the ability to masturbate or masturbating to orgasm or relating deeply to another human being. I mean, there's so many issues here I mean, what's the Yeah, that's was at some point when they were talking this morning about sexual racial encapsulation. I think the focus on central power isn't the same kind of Unknown Speaker 48:19 thing how'd it how do people feel about moving to exercise? Where do they stop? You're okay, we don't have enough is the basic problem. Yes. Every other one is. One of the reasons I signed up to work Unknown Speaker 49:06 with them workshop, specifically, the word Empower, Unknown Speaker 49:10 which I understand is coming out of harshly is a word that's used a lot in the non violence, movement for non violent organization, demonstrations like that, in terms of taking control over oneself getting a sense of self or strength or whatever, which I see certainly not different, you know, totally divorced from power, but it's a very different concept than power. So when I read empowerment, female sexual empowerment, I read that not as a discussion about power and sexuality which I think everybody would have three basic power dimensions involved with especially sexuality by discussion about or workshop about how women do control it. control and perceived control, and sexuality was nice. And it's cooler to that I'm always amazed. I'm Catholic from working sexuality. And I'm always amazed that these discussions totally exclude celibacy, which I would say is an extremely strong form of empowerment for women and has been historically. And I think there is a bias, as long as there is a racial bias and a class by their second bias, there is a bias against in terms of sex itself, how we perceive sexuality, what is important in terms of sexual look, how about none at all? You know, what does that mean? Or how do we define celibacy? And has that work given our power that could also be seen as another way of reclaiming power women have had celibacy imposed on us in certain circumstances, or some people chose chose choosing is a very different thing from having it imposed. And it can come back to be a tool that does give us a time Unknown Speaker 51:07 that it seems wrong to say being celibate as being non sexual. There's a language some people define. So obviously, it's not having any sexuality whatsoever, even with yourself and other people defined. So partnered sex instead of talking about nominal partnerships, like the difference between being sexual, and having sex, I'm talking about not having said, I think that's different from saying I'm a non sexual creature, and biases here in terms of dualities you wish to not by talking about sexuality as what one does, in either relating to oneself as a sex, right, trying to have organs. That's, I think that's narrowing and accomplishment, what it means to be sexual, because it means it's only one kind of place where I'm sexual all the time, which also was having relations or not comes from, you can count it, you can't count it. Unknown Speaker 52:08 Which is where a lot of monitoring sexology comes from. And since it's real hard to add up something you can't count, they have disregarded Unknown Speaker 52:21 certain points in my life, but it certainly helped me with other people, when you were not having a relationship was somehow you were not being your sexual self, which made you feel like you have less power as a body as a person that you couldn't walk around quite as strong, right. And I think that's a horrifying way to treat ourselves with only in one place where we sexual and if we're not having that we have Yeah. Unknown Speaker 52:49 It says, more than having been defined as the other than that group that gives us passion is also taken away from us, because in a certain sense, we don't exist. And so then we are only able to be sexual in relation to the other, which is usually defined as heterosexual male, but then can be extended to a lesbian partner to any partner. And I think that's really important is where's the Senator? Is it in your own thing? Or is it out there with other people? Unknown Speaker 53:23 I want to come back to what you said about the title. And it's truly that one word empowerment, which floored me, too. And because I think it's very different from having power over something. But M power is kind of powered unto yourself, that doesn't mean that you excel at masturbation within you do it. And I think that what's happened with this discussion is we've fallen into that whole thing. And it's no wonder because the whole culture doesn't exist, the way that sexuality is, to study hours and to is to quantify it, and to, to fly in terms of how much you do, how often has to pull the water. And when you come back to the idea of empowerment, I think it we'd like to get back to those questions that you raised are really because to be powered unto yourself means that then, I mean, we if we think about that, or use that maybe as a central discussion, it might help to touch on other ways that our ability to be empowered, is taken away or snapped by racism by by us. And depending on who you're becoming. Particularly, each of us that turn the Unknown Speaker 54:47 lower level of abstraction, I think information can be empowering, that kind of lack of knowledge that most of us grew up in about even countable minimal Sexual information can be free. And so as I was also trying to bring some of that in Unknown Speaker 55:08 I am an English teacher. And English teachers always like to move the topic by finding out which question it seems to me. You're talking to being criticized for not asking certain questions instead of being responded to the terms of the questions that you ask the question you asked were basically experiential rooms. Because I understand that you're these statistics represent experience as far as unable to tabulated rights, get it what's really going on. And then the rest of your questions are psychological experience. exercises. And I'm grateful and very much like to do the exercises. Okay. So this came Unknown Speaker 56:09 are ones that are designed in visually and then we, as I said, we can share some probably in small groups. What I was trying to get at is the questions I was asking, which were this question of power and danger of that sexuality is a strong force for women. Take back your power as proficient. But it's also dangerous to assume now and how do we learn that and how do we respond to that, and I want to include in that, the other kinds of dangers how how, for example, in what Barbara was saying about the South and whiteness, that's a very specific kind of sexual danger that a young black girl is going to get a sense that it's different from other kinds of senses of sexual danger that are there so that's some of the things I was trying to get at with these exercises and with the sharing of what comes up when we did I think probably be easier to just content hit first one is to sit somehow so your genitals are not easily accessible Unknown Speaker 57:42 close your eyes and become aware of how your body feels and also to move us on I'd like to take a little time between exercises to be able to remember the first time you became aware of a dangerous connection with your sexuality. Okay here we go want to sit with your genitals Oaklanders again become aware of how your mind what images fancy sensations Is it a clearer picture? How did you feel the first time Imagine a sexually powerful woman What does she look like? How does she move Unknown Speaker 1:00:12 what is the rest of her life? This this woman you're imagining someone you identify with that you'd like to be liked because thinking about returning if you want to jot down some of the things that you thought or remembered before we break into groups I was Unknown Speaker 1:02:04 I am really questioned I don't understand what you mean when you say danger that's personal interest rate through said danger that you have control over other people I don't know what you mean so I can't even and I'm Unknown Speaker 1:02:15 asking you to define yourself when you need something you're asking me I told you that the three kinds of danger that I felt growing up and I wanted to find out if other people have senses at that time I guess we should probably put it off for many years I'll tell you how we can do this just count 1234 and up and then when I see how many there are to configure them okay, you want to start with one just count up 123? Unknown Speaker 1:03:05 Night okay 2627 specifically Unknown Speaker 1:03:42 why we have six groups of eight is a little big but space we have available a smaller so, one 917 Saudis 2033 and 41 year one. Right How are you oh my well there should be enough room I want to over five minutes back together so let's go to about five or 10 trying to see if we can reach any conclusions about dangerous sexuality questions okay, why don't the exercise is really the first question or the beginning of theory trying to compare experiences about the sensations of is sexually powerful if it's powerful is it dangerous? Where does that leave us with our own sexuality and what other kinds of things strikes have to do this when I was six there was masturbation play rock and rock and I'm like I think that you need to develop hoping I could shoot so I can do this that's why the internet is doing what is testing required Unknown Speaker 1:07:53 presented again and again then we'll have this one that kind of disappears now moving accepting it's actually James that we all have stations that she has achieved at this stage question memory what terrifies Unknown Speaker 1:08:43 me that it just takes place in the world shooting something you have to be ready to put it either why today we're going to do the West positions as tomography they may not actually even realize now we recessed of danger so you're trying to seek to create your position so that I might always want to get there to protect this company which is a revenge dangers are very similar to stability and so on I'm going to try to carry that demand on a day to day it's a change of quantity Unknown Speaker 1:10:31 wondering pretty tipsy tasty days Unknown Speaker 1:10:44 that I heard a lot of kung fu Unknown Speaker 1:10:47 soldiers that Unknown Speaker 1:10:54 wasn't there expressing those reverence he must yes it was the second time and we can see that all of a sudden you know a girl told us Josh so was when you're faced with a section which just says I have the same sexual needs we do that you will achieve so that was really neat now certified teachers to disclose I go to support.com six now in refreshers it was really a series that Unknown Speaker 1:12:25 we're gonna set up hard and stuff and we work hard you cannot actually do this and why not learning Unknown Speaker 1:12:46 next tomorrow Unknown Speaker 1:13:02 down here somewhere so we've got the new man standing Unknown Speaker 1:13:15 talking to you she said you guys very quickly to try my best to continue we do these things and the way my sexuality I still think danger and threat possibility and also thank you conservatives are hit my battles Unknown Speaker 1:13:59 with that I was going to say I use social media and also if you can if you can get it into their day you don't even have that again as always. To meet not to be Unknown Speaker 1:15:08 taken any days out in that high sexuality Unknown Speaker 1:15:17 question in town here I'm excited to turn it's possible Unknown Speaker 1:15:27 for me to say change Unknown Speaker 1:15:30 setting setting setting session something Unknown Speaker 1:15:32 interesting so I'm sacrificing my perception Unknown Speaker 1:15:37 yet what are not facing in different is about our our sexuality is six years old so maybe it's the same thing I love the sound I think when I when I came here I Unknown Speaker 1:16:13 was nervous right so this is Unknown Speaker 1:16:16 for someone who's not and I actually started yesterday with a Unknown Speaker 1:16:20 Tetra allergy who's doing it and he wasn't worried about that concept to me back so gradually out of our lives not here in New York City cheers reactions Unknown Speaker 1:17:11 recession Unknown Speaker 1:17:25 Shirky. Patient Unknown Speaker 1:17:46 that this country is a dangerous thing we can say that we spent a Unknown Speaker 1:18:08 lot of theater that we interpreted is actually any crime whatsoever is Unknown Speaker 1:18:18 affected by win because in a new challenge you want to be very sure Unknown Speaker 1:18:27 like this is more like Nintendo Unknown Speaker 1:18:37 I know students are working on tangible Unknown Speaker 1:18:44 things yielding so you can see that's why we call them in our hands okay Unknown Speaker 1:19:04 days ago actually does the chances are that you take yourself as a sexual being you can't What about growing up in the Midwest to a certain segment you can lay on Unknown Speaker 1:19:45 the street all the time to Unknown Speaker 1:19:47 share with them in New York City or in any place where a woman stands up to show her sexuality or to feel good about herself so she was short sleeves she was posting animals move immediately strike out at you for one and make you more accessible to these entities actually the other thing is one of the worst experiences I have so I've already got the shadows wire on and I Unknown Speaker 1:20:18 just mentally to buy clothes and if you want it to go off the rails and there's all the money you have hundreds of 1000s of people and still feel free to take any time Unknown Speaker 1:20:46 you've seen in town Unknown Speaker 1:20:50 there is a difference between appreciation I can appreciate that it has a very nice spin on you know you could tell I mean I think when you're flipping out when you when you run saturate you can sense that the second time around I wasn't I didn't feel that there was a chameleon which said all right well it's time to change scary thing is to just choose to just go out hello convention in Derby 91 potential Unknown Speaker 1:22:33 issues and Unknown Speaker 1:22:34 it was was contact she wants to hang people up what he wanted us to as useless he was I think helped me understand your child's attention to action Unknown Speaker 1:23:15 reason I started very tight square the positive masculine model the danger is located physically in our eyes or breasts and urges to places that aren't getting the most sense of danger without a central element starting today we're starting to see what I was thinking which points to consider and accept me and signed by someone always so as to volunteer Unknown Speaker 1:24:15 right so I do think there's a strong correlation is interesting now to show you this but I think it's fair for you to generate various marketing agenda to last you guys evening Oh my gosh is actually a powerful moment we talking about something I don't know what's your picture right Unknown Speaker 1:25:56 yes definitely you know that's that's again how you get other guys that isn't in the field I'm always excited always streaming tracks Unknown Speaker 1:26:31 yeah everybody first because I think a lot of jobs sometimes somebody else can after a certain time to go out and make a decision man oh god Nice to see Unknown Speaker 1:28:01 you changed it doesn't necessarily mean that she can look for strong I think it's always good to feel we're saying maybe one hour that is going to be Unknown Speaker 1:28:32 on power You Oh yes interesting. Yes it is. Unknown Speaker 1:29:54 Yeah, yeah. First of all if I could say that Session is back with the beginning session as we can probably assume that they asked me anyhow and is involved in the project about which he's passing information you want to say thanks very much Unknown Speaker 1:30:19 Sorry Chris the example sharing content or editing content well it Unknown Speaker 1:30:31 would be very grateful if you would consider writing for yourself or think about things that you would like to see that happen with your readings and also we'd like to draw on as large or as Unknown Speaker 1:30:57 everything's on here Unknown Speaker 1:31:02 if there are people who want the material I knew that if we didn't get it at the end, sign up and I could send you copies. There are other questions sort of sexual history questions, other theory questions and I listed books I didn't try to do articles except for Audrey. So if you didn't get started that was like a good now did people get anywhere on power gauge or who who was sexually powerful woman in Vegas that you want to share or any different experiential points of view that you think are really important that we can get out of what happened in the workshop at what choosing a topic