Unknown Speaker 00:24 Well, I think because it's very important that we had a chance to talk to each other. And that we don't run out of time just when I finished talking at you. I'm just going to tell you a little bit about four black women writers who are important to me because I think they show a tradition of black feminism and been my plan to have the discussion, activist. Unknown Speaker 01:02 What I had hoped Unknown Speaker 01:03 or thought or imagined, would be a truly racially mixed group would talk about the ways and means of making use of black feminists thought, and then the involvement of black feminist movement with different audience. And I think we may have a different discussion because of that, that interested me all morning long. laid onto the few words I had, I was taken by surprise by the early reservations about the women's movement held by many black women. I understood the historical basis, the Civil Rights Movement have been left in the backlash before when white women began to concentrate on their rights as a sex rather than the rights of all the typical expression of those reservation appeared in Essence magazine in 1972, that you would find it's typical of those reservations. For what reason? Do we split our goals and ourselves and join women's liberation? How do we talk about People's Liberation and then subdivide that by sex? For black woman to spend time and energy defining women's issues, as opposed to a people's needs? Seems like a tremendous waste of our time and energy? The litany of terms they now so easily used to place the burden of guilt on the white man's shoulders seem just two symbols. Aren't these the same white men, they raised? The same white men they go home and cook for, and sleep with, and have babies? I think so. Some of these oppressed sisters are the same white ladies whose homes are cleaned by my mama and yours, and to call the Mabel and Liz and Annie, that expect to be called Ms. Somebody. The oppression that some of them seek escape from home making, raising their children doing what they choose in any given day, is what black women tired from that never ending jobs, tired of leaving their children with answer. Neighbors, tired of being tired would run to the speaker job. And I asked myself with massive black male unemployment right now. Where will women get these jobs? And the answer is from me, from my man, from the people who have always been the last hired, and the first five. They sit and talk about meaningful jobs getting more meaning into their lives and discovering their potential. With all the sincerity this leisurely uncomfortable white middle class must have. And I remember we are still struggling to survive with any kind of work, trying to stay alive and then some other than telling us how much in common we all have, and how women are more peace loving, just male of the species. And I asked myself once we have stopped talking about bodily functions, babies men, where is this common ground? My interest ideas and goals that tie totally with my being black. It occurred to me Unknown Speaker 04:18 that black women had some difficulty understanding feminist movements for very simple reason. Simone de Beauvoir said somewhere that Americans have difficulty understanding existentialism, because they are natural existentialists, black women are natural feminist. I've not mean natural nature's by that. I mean, the black women have been working them and ever since we landed on the shores by working women, I mean women who held full time jobs outside of their homes. One can find black people have wealth in early American history, but not black people of leisure. Black women have not been carried to prominence on the coattails of their fathers or husbands. Sojourner Truth, then moved into Horace Really, you call yourself a self made man? Well, I am a self made woman. Black woman has been victimized by the double standard ever since the arrival on the shores. We married since the beginning of American history. But the consequence in American history is that our husbands could not protect us, as the double standard ordinarily provided simply where a husband existed. In fact, the female slave was victimized by a triple standard. At work a double one, she was expected to do the same work as man. At work, she was additionally required to function peculiarly as a woman as a sexual object in the most concrete meaning of that term and as a sexual product, an equally concrete sense. She, however, came from and lived in a society which set up yet another double standard, there was woman's work also, and she was expected to do that as well. Black female slaves left their homes at sunup to work all day, and returned at sundown to attend insofar as possible, the needs and demands of their own families. Not much about that change with emancipation. As I worked on this paper, I wanted to call this workshop I wish they call this workshop, the tradition of black feminism. By whatever route one travels toward feminism, black women have traveled usually with a default, certainly not behind. Feminism seems difficult, sometimes for black women to understand because it seems to offer nothing new, equal pay for equal work, the right to control one's own body. The denials of these rights are such familiar stuff to black women, that to hear the mix some of us feel the way a tired mother feels when a child runs home from school to tell the mother that the Earth revolves around the Sun. So what else is new? There are no new questions. I'm a woman. How will I tend my children? How will I tend to my home? How will I tend to my brain? Linda brim raise those questions in 1861. I wish she said in the introduction to her autobiography, I were more competent to the task I've undertaken. But I trust my readers will excuse deficiencies and consideration of circumstances. I was born and reared in slavery. And I remained in a slave state 27 years since I've been at the north, it is necessary for me to work diligently for my own support, and the education of my children. This has not left me much leisure to make up for the loss of early opportunities to improve myself. And it has compelled me to write these pages at irregular intervals whenever I could snatch now from household duties, cross certainly familiar to any writer. I am both black woman, Shirley Chisholm says, that's a good vantage point from which to view and these two elements of what is becoming a social revolution, the American Revolution and the Women's Liberation Movement. But it is also she says a horrible disadvantage is a disadvantage because America as a nation is both racist and anti feminist racism and anti feminism are two of the prime traditions of this country. A black female was born in slavery around 1797. She always reckoned her age from the time she was emancipated. The act of New York 1817 emancipated all slaves at the age of 40. She became free in 1817. Living Legend to a death well established November 20 1883. She was called Isabella by the first donors later at the surname Waggoner after a family which gave her refuge when she fled slavery. The first Tang was Dutch such Unknown Speaker 08:48 pretty she worked as a cook a laundry as a maid. The story is remarkable, and one of its fascinating chapters concerns her successful legal proceedings to obtain the release of her son Peter, who was so ultimately into slavery in Alabama. She was a mystic, and in 1841, or voices, which called her to preach in which gave her a new name, Sojourner Truth, to one of Sojourner Truth contemporaries. She was one who was nobody but a woman and unleavened woman, a black woman, and an old woman, a woman born and bred a slave on and bred a slave. She felt keenly the condition of women everywhere as the clears. If one wishes to say that laws which enslaved women really protect them, then you must prove that certainly there's no question that that ideology or for black women, no protection, and the clearest statement ever made on that subject was Sojourner Truth famous speech at the Women's convention in Akron, Ohio, in 1851. You all probably know it. Well, Jill And what are so much record there must be something out of kilter I think the twigs the neighbors of the South and the women of North all the talking about rights the white men will be in a fixed pretty soon. But what's all this here talking about? That man opened up say that woman needs to be helped into carriages and lifted over ditches and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helped me into carriages, or over mud puddles, or gives me any best place. And aren't I won't look at me Look at me. I'm plowed and planted and gathered into barns and no man could hit me. And Aren't I a Woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man when I could get it. And then the lashes well, and aren't a woman born 13 children and Cena most all sold off in slavery. And when I cried to the mother's grief, none but Jesus hurt. And Aren't I a Woman? Then they talks about this thing in the head but they call it someone from the intellect. That's it funny. What's that got to do with women's rights on niggas rights? If my cup won't hold but a pint and yours holds a court? Wouldn't you be mean not let me have my little half measure. She continued to speak, directing her remarks to minister and answering early and persistent arguments seek to repress women's rights then that little man in black though, he said women can have as much rights as man, because Christ want a woman. Why did your price come from? Where did your Christ come from? From God and a woman man had nothing to do with it. Later, defense leave. The first woman God made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all these together ought to be able to turn it back and get it right side up again. And now you're asking to do with men that Allah is for. Sojourner Truth has died. Francis Ellen Watkins, had been born to maintain a tradition. Unlike Sojourner Truth she was born free in Baltimore making. The mother died when she was three but her early circumstances compared to Sojourner Truth were comfortable. It was cared for by an went to school taught by an uncle, she did have to begin earning a living at 13. She was legally married at 18. Hopper and found herself legally widowed for years data. She had to earn a living, writing. She was like to join the truth in three ways. She's black, she's female, and she was committed to the concerns and problems when I show you some of her concerns through her platform poems, but you should know that she was a professional writer. The first black that published a short story The most popular Blackboard in the 19th century was popular black political, Dunbar's you should know also that our works remain uncollected. There is so much for scholars to do in this area. Unknown Speaker 13:16 died in 1911. And one of the clauses she worked diligently with WC you on a tour by placing her name and its calendar. She was very concerned for the education of women. And she was very well views when she wrote Georgia. But really, my hands are almost constantly full of work. Sometimes I speak twice a day, called my lectures are given privately to women. And for them, I never make any charge or take up any collection. And now I'm going to have a private meeting with the women of this place if they will come out. I'm going to talk with them about their daughters, and about things connected with the welfare of the race, or from Alabama. Men talk about missionary work among the heathen. But if any lover of Christ wants a feel to civilizing work, here's a deal. Part of the time I'm preaching against men and treating their wives. I have heard though that often during the war men hired out their wives. Hey, my involvement in the temperance movement sprang from this conservative quality of women's lives. It did not end and she would have imagined that men have not stopped hitting them with women concrete now doesn't stop I. Want to read a couple of her poems there's one bash tie which speaks both to women's pride into the reaction of a conditional character and the notion of possession. It's about bash time. She named her head upon her hand With the king's decree My Lords are feasting in my halls bid bash tie come to me. I've shown the treasures of my house my costly jewels rare, but with the glory of her eyes no rubies can compare adorned and crowned. I'd have her come with all her Queen grace. And mid My Lords and mighty men on they have a lovely face. Each gem that sparkles in my crown blisters on my throne goes poor and pale and she appears my beautiful my own. All weightings to the Chamberlains to hear the Queen's reply. They saw her cheek bow deathly pale but like flesh to cry, go tell him the king she probably said that I am precious queen, and by crowds of men, the men I never will be seen. I'll take the crown from off my head and treaded needs my feet before they're rude and care. This is my shrinking I shall meet a queen unveiled before the crown upon each lip My name why purchase women or with blushing week for vegetate she'd go back she cried and we'd go hand in Greek was in her I go tell the key she said You said they brought her message to the King Dark place today vi presents the lightning air the storm had swept in theory by and bitterly spoke the king through purple lips of red, what shall be done to her who dares to cross your mom's path and speak is why they counselors old king of this fan from distance into Ethiopia or all about the command. But if before they servants eyes this thing they plainly see that that side does not eat I will yield herself to me. The women rested Nikka rule with learn to score on our name. And from her Dean to us with concrete approach and burning shame. In gracious King sign with thy hand the stern that just decree that bashed I lay aside or crown the Queen more de she heard a game the king's command left her highest Nate strong and earnest womanhood she calmly met her feet and left the palace of the king proud of her spotless name. A woman who could not have been to grief and would not bow to shame. Why she was popular. I want to read two of her poems dealing with slavery as it curiously affected women, which was the perspective from which she approached most of her abolitionist workers. What did you do? To women's did it for two reasons. It appealed to other women, and it's Unknown Speaker 17:42 her new that shriek it blows so wildly in the air, it seemed as if a burdened heart was breaking into spare, saw you those hands. So sadly, class, about a feeble head, is shuttering of that fragile form that look of grief and dread. She is a mother filled with fear, for boy clings to her side and in a criminal vein and he tries his trembling form to hide. He is not heard so that we should offer him a mother's pains. He has not heard all over blood is coursing through his veins. He is not hers are cruel hands may rudely tear apart, the only week how so low, the bonds are breaking for over a description on the slave auction which begins the sale began. Young girls with their defenseless in their venture Agnes, who stifled soft, deep despair, revealed the anguish and distress and mother stood with screaming eyes and saw the deer as children. So unheated rows are tiring. She has one as surely as the only time I ever work the night the country that attacks the double standard. And it's as it as it as it thins and hurts women and argues against it. She calls the poems called the double standard Do you blame me that I loved him if when standing all alone, I cried the bread Camus world press to my lips system do you blame me that I loved him that my heartbeat blood and free when he told me in his speeches stones he loved it only me? Can you blame me that I did not see beneath his burning kiss to serpents Wiles or even less use deadly Atticus? Can you blame me that my heart grew cold at the tempted tempter turned when he was fated? And caress and I was cold is very crime has no sex and yet today I wear the brand shame while to mid to gay and proud still bears and honest name. Can you blame me if I've learned to think your feet advice of shame am you so coldly crushed down and then excused? You blame me for my downward course but Oh remember well, within your homes you press the hand that led me down. I'm glad God's ways are not your ways he does not see it man. Within his love. I know there's room though some others bands. I think before his great white throne, his theme of spotless white, that white settled cruise show where the few would in this night that I felt and even sin shall reap as we have sown, that each the burden of his loss was bear and bear and no golden weights and turn the scale of justice in your sight. And what is wrong in a woman's life in man's cannot be right Unknown Speaker 20:51 and finally, one that leads us to ultimately to design University. It's the marriage no last name do not blush. I only heard you had a mind to marry. I thought I'd speak a friendly words that just a momentary, when not a man's married lives and things about the show. In Ravenhill flashing eyes, the themes your fancy, so the marry one was good and kind and free for all pretense, cool, if without a gifted mind at least just common sense. The third writer I want to mention to you is no Larson was fascinated me for some time. The details of her life are extraordinarily vague, it seems to me, a woman who lived in 20th century not the 19th woman who published two novel and was the first black woman to happen. We seem not to be sure whether she was born in Chicago, or in the Virgin Islands. And whether it was in 1893. Her death has been placed in Brooklyn in 1963. What are the sources said data for justice are known, it seems to me to be a remarkable gap. But one I have to send the student that to do to build all agree that she was the daughter of a Danish mother and a West Indian father, or mother or father died, your mother be married again. second daughter and she and her half sister have attended school for Scandinavian children in Chicago, that she went to dinner with Danish relatives in Copenhagen. And she attended the University of Copenhagen, stayed there for three years and then came back and study nursing first year in New York City. And in studies of Library Science. The first novel was six students in my lab, which of course, always raise two questions about this novel. First, there seem to be an ideological rejection of both the writer and the heroine, because the theme in racial terms offended some heroine of mixed parentage daughter of a white woman and a black man who moves from color culture to color culture without finding fulfillment. And either. And I always felt that my class wanted to discover that she was black, and to find just in that discovery, total fulfillment. The other question that my students raised was raised a little more flippantly. It was, what I want to know is what does she do? Meaning what does she do for a living? And this seemed to me when I thought about it to be the key to the book, because she doesn't do school quicksand. And there's a New Yorker cartoon, you may have seen two men about neck deep in quicksand one day to the other quicksand or not, Barkley, I have half a mind to struggle. Unknown Speaker 24:08 That's the quicksand of this novel. Healthcare is struggling, top of mind, is sexual ratio, or dissatisfaction, or sexual in both senses. First, she feels that she must repress her own sexuality. She can't be actually interesting or sexually interested person, and sexual and that it seems to me that one of her pretty consistent motives is to is the humiliation of men she tends to precipitate her own disasters by saying something that is humiliating. This has something to do with probably everything to do with the fact that the men in quicksand are all content in their words. From the very beginning, bitterly she reflected the James at speed. Nearly and within Thai ease fitted into this niche, XL the Danish painter Hooser is a successful portrait painter. And the discontent does come to men. They move. As Dr. Anderson does discontent in the southern black college, he moves to New York and find contentment. Her problem is really that she can neither confirm nor be happy in nonconformity. She has what she calls a lack of acquiescence. So remarkable portrait of NACA seems to me to have no insights we know more about insights, that partly because Helga doesn't know what she's young falls to sleep, and she creates her own need. She's not a liberated woman. She's imprisoned really by notion that she finds some satisfaction in things which bring her no satisfaction. It teaches school beginning or perhaps marry well, she turns down and think thought beautiful, none of these things, bring her satisfaction, because she cannot stop thinking that they should. They shouldn't be what she wants. In the end, Mary's the Reverend pleasant, green and in so doing, commits a kind of suicide because the novel is about not married. That's what she does. She comes to her and she does not know him. She does not marry James veil, the black teacher. She works in Southern College. She had wanted social background but not imagined it could be so stuffy. She does not married Dr. Andersen, president of the college although he has been too liberal, too lenient for education as it was conflicted enough so meaning he is not as stuffy as James pale. She does not marry the Danish artists, Axel Olson. prerace this time you see I couldn't marry a white man. I simply couldn't. It isn't just you, not just a personal you understand? It's deeper broader than that it's racial. And then she does marry she marries the Reverend pleasant. Grinch falls into a disaster, stop struggling goes under. The novel ends with her left in a life in which she hates the townspeople needs her husband. Ben's leaving and finds herself pregnant with John. But things do begin to look up now. lorrison feels I mean, Helga feels the problems of being a woman of not finding satisfaction in those things which are supposed to bring us satisfaction but not being able to abandon the needed to say, well, I don't want those things and to go on and find what she wants to do. But the remarkable Zora Neale Hurston gives us a full woman on Their Eyes Were Watching God. Some of you may have read it. It begins with a man ships in the distance of every man's wish on board. The Sunday come in with a tie. For others they sail forever on Horizon. Never outside, Neverland in total, watch your chances eyes away and resignation is dreams man to death by time like men, in terms to women, and women forget all those things that they don't want to remember. And remember everything they don't want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly and to a specific woman. So the beginning of this was a woman and she had come back from burying the dead woman's Jane Starks words of truth stops with she's come back from discovering the dream, making truth in three marriages. You can imagine that I could pull this sheet of paper out while Audrey Lorde was wrote in my journal themes point way to Unknown Speaker 29:11 Jamie is married to a love and killings happens when our grandmother sees her get her first kiss. And worries about her safety tank. Logan pilex I want you to have baby it's protection. She wants to save her from the role of the nigger woman. The new little world so far as I can see. I was born back then slavery so it wasn't for me to fulfill my dreams of what a woman on the end to do. I didn't want you to be used for work and fruits. And I didn't want my daughter use that we knew she needs to protect Janie. The sexual abuse she had known herself by Master sexual abuse. Jane's mother, by the teacher It can't die easy thinking maybe the minute folks white or black is making the specter about Jane's mother's been violated by black man. So grandma's early in the marriage or Janie finds that marriage does not make love the first dream is if she becomes Logan buys a muse for her falling back into a traditional role the role that her grandmother hoped she would have she says you don't need my help out there Logan uses in your face and I'm in mind and is equally traditional answer because men have said this when he said I'll stay in my place is you ain't got no particularly it's wherever I need you get a move on and that click into this scene steps job starts Joe Stokes is man on his way to the top and he gets there you behind the cloud he says to her you ain't got no more business with a cloud in the hall with a holiday you ain't no it's got no business cutting up no seed potatoes neither pretty doll baby like you get on board and rock and fan yourself and other folks plan just for you. Know Starks becomes the mayor of the old black town town patterned after Florida. Doris home is the owner of the general store he brings TriCity He's a big man and hopes that Jamie will find her satisfaction attached to big men. When elected mayor nominates the mayor Jamie is asked to say a few words and Joe replies for her. Thank you for your compliments, but my wife don't know nothing but no speechmaking. I never married up and nothing like that she a woman in a places in the genome interface last after shortfalls. It wasn't too easy. She never thought of making a speech. Didn't know she can't make one at all. It must have been the way Joe spoke out without giving you a chance to say anything one way or another to presume off things. The way she went down the road behind the place. It's in the home is not to make speech but she has to help out in the store. When it was over that night in bed Jody is Janie Well Honey How you like being miss this man? It's alright I reckon but don't you think it keeps us in the kind of stream stream? You mean the cooking and waiting on books? No God it just looks like it keeps us in some way we natural with one another. US always off talking and fixing things not feels like I'm just marking time when it gets over soon. Oh my god. I need to stop started good. I told you in the first beginning that I aim to be a big voice. You ought to be glad because that will make a big woman use the feeling of coolness and fear to go live so far away from things I'm going to almost just come to stuff we don't get to talk at all. I do want to say that the Joe storks feels that women can't think that he must think for them for Jamie that she sees her dreams die there again that at a Joe Stark's death. Finally, she allows us how sometimes God gets familiar with this woman folks and talks is is that business we'd be surprised how smart it might be and that she meets virtually woods. teacake. Man is 12 years younger than she is and they the first thing teacake does is to teach you to play checkers. She has she has watched them in play checkers and she's not permitted to play checkers. The next time she sees him, he teases her. She teases him about spending his money. He offers to buy her coat from her own store. Good she says we got a rich man around here by passenger trains and battleships this week. Which one do you want yesterday? Unknown Speaker 34:10 Oh, if he's treating me to it, I believe outside the passenger train a bit below a bus to be on land. Choose the battleship Josias if that's what you really want. Later, he does things like lemonade taking fishing hair, and when she expresses some discomfort about their relationship to her had the nerve to say what you mean. Building a relationship of equals does not mean she's not on a pedestal. She was blue because he likes it. They hunt together they fish together. Movies, they dance teachers drive and this takes her much closer to what she has been looking for Jody, she says. Cluster off separate take It's dragging me out of nowhere I don't want to go up always did wants to get around a hole. But God just wouldn't allow me to when I wasn't installed he wanted me to just sit with folded hands and sit there and he'd sit there with the walls creeping up on me and squeezing all the life out of me DVDs educated women got a heap of things sit down and consider somebody's and told them what to sit down for. Nobody talk for me. So sitting still worries me a wants to utilize himself or over. She marries TK knowing that the marriage changes things, but she also knows that she's tried their grandma's way. And now what she means to do is live is live her way. She says sitting on the porch is like the white man made fun of grandma. That's what she wants to me don't care what it costs get up on my chest if she didn't have time to think what to do after he got up on stool and do nothing. The object was to get there. So I got up on the house to like she told me but Phoebe I nearly language to death. There. I felt like the world was crying extra. And I read the common news yet. Maybe so JD, in this passage, back to get chance to talk about black women. Maybe So Jay, still in all. I'd love to experience it just for one year. It looked like to me and when I read them so because she understands where she's at. Look, she knows that she wanted at the beginning of this novel, which is also the in managing skip teacakes. Yes. The townspeople are gossiping about Janie. What's she doing coming back here in the mobile? Can she found no dress to put on? Where's that blue satin dress she left him where all that money or husband took him down and let them what that for your woman doing with her hair hanging down her back like some young gal, where she left that young little boy she went out here with thought she was going to marry that she offered some girls so young, she ain't got no hair. Why don't she stay in her class? The questions boiled down to three. Can a black woman utilize herself all the way she lived her own way. She partake of everything. That I didn't mean to talk so long, I really thought that it was good to know. I wanted to I was perplexed today. And I trust the rest of you noticed it was fairly obvious. The advisors the paucity of black women, students at at this conference I wondered why I had, I had anticipated a racially mixed group by thought maybe we might get as high as 5050. I had been a little bit concerned that it was possible that there would be a large number of black women coming to the conference as if they were all going to the conference on black feminism. And I thought no, no, no, no, we don't want that. But but I'm I'm I'm concerned about this. Do you have you thought about Unknown Speaker 38:22 the problem that you mentioned in the beginning? When In essence, this might sound like a simple answer. But just in my experience, I think the question is still for black women, what do I have to do with feminism? And how, how or should I separate that from civil rights, which is for me. And it's a very it's very difficult for most black women to see that there really isn't a separation at all. And so they stay away from conferences like this because they don't see themselves as Unknown Speaker 39:14 I haven't seen, I didn't see any kind of walnut students who I recognize younger, Unknown Speaker 39:21 even younger students who actually this year, generally, Unknown Speaker 39:30 yes, it's generally true. But this year, we did have to know but this year we did expect more this time because because we had two panels which had content that suggested it would address itself to a broader concern. Unknown Speaker 39:54 I'm not a clear details, but I understand that one count Chris has been killed on black women in the last couple of months. I think it's Indiana, Purdue, and other regional conferences are effecting plan. I think what I'm asking is, is it possible that we're at a moment when things are taking it for him? And when black women scholars are addressing these issues in other kinds of contexts, and as if this is, maybe you can tell me inform me more about this, Unknown Speaker 40:32 when you said there was one and I gotta Unknown Speaker 40:35 fly from that what you're talking about? Sorry, I can't address that, then maybe I are the New York City community. But I was wondering whether in fact, this happens to be with new kinds of forms are shaping and with the kind of thing that we did not the kind of information we did not see here. It may be another kind of things built in. I'm just wondering, Unknown Speaker 41:07 as it happens, and I guess this is not necessary. It's an answer to the question, which, which is not an answer at all. Because why would why did this happen there is at Columbia today and presumably garnered a black Lourdes? Well, presumably, according to Barbara Schmitter, it was called Black women black students weekend, which is ridiculous to have that kind of CO schedule. But the fact that it did pass, I mean, that that was a dad, I have to attend the Women's Center conference in their events make it another time is what's really true, but not only and so this Unknown Speaker 41:53 is this is a reflection, I think, indeed, of the need for for black women to join in. And in fact, to offer what I think are some particular advantages is the leadership of, of women's liberation. Clearly, we are present in very small numbers in professional groups from which this conference draws its participants. I've lost my list of colleges. Unknown Speaker 42:26 University of Massachusetts, in just wasn't two or three weeks ago, there was a very large conference on racism in which they were I think most of the of the panelists were black women. Unknown Speaker 42:42 Well, now that they're the topic makes the panel but what about the participants? Question is, is the question really Unknown Speaker 42:50 seems to be that the shape that black woman's participation in increasing participation in a movement of women is something is not linear, it's fluid. It's it's in flux. And women posed this question that in that race, in degrees and conference, for example, like this, which were there not a lot of like women, it's almost it's indicative of the problem. Yet, it isn't indicative of the problem, because black women are attending conferences, whether they are integrated conferences, or in certainly large numbers of black women conferences, where the issues are centered more around the total meaning of black life. It seems to me that I've heard the question so often feminist movement, where are black women? And I think the response is black women are where black women has to be at this moment. I'm concerned to an extent that they're not here today, but it's not. It's not a grave concern, because I I feel since 1968, over race, there's still pieces of that there operative, that essence is talking about, but over these 10 years, there has been a kind of evolution of thinking on the part of black woman as far as these issues and then kind of integrating them in some way. The one thing Unknown Speaker 44:09 with feminism development of black feminist organizations. Unknown Speaker 44:15 And it's still it's still very saddening that you didn't think the content was available to you New York, I mean, the diversity that they like, interesting and so forth, and Unknown Speaker 44:29 I think the question Unknown Speaker 44:32 of life more closely to their concerns, even that relates to feminism is probably something else that might cause black women not to come to conferences scholarly. What What am I gonna do with all that scholarship, Unknown Speaker 44:53 but it's also reflection that there are just too few black women in the scholarship. immunity, which takes us back to racism. That's sexism together. I mean, there's simply are very few Unknown Speaker 45:11 at the same time that I was posing to Johnson, so why wouldn't be organized in the conference after it's five years? Yes, conferences. And my understanding is that there has never been a large number of them, I came one year part of it. And that by this point, just one of the things that I think about top of my head, why wasn't there some contact, maybe something like Sojourner, a woman who edits that so forth over a period of time, so that at least two announcements, two issues that come out? And so during a census conference has been? I think it's a need to, to see how Unknown Speaker 45:52 I wondered my specific approaches to something like the National Council of Nicaea. Well, that's, that's a, it's a middle class organization of women who are involved in Unknown Speaker 46:04 not sure, of course, she's on the show this morning. And the National Association media knows, I mean, Unknown Speaker 46:11 they came from as far away as California, Unknown Speaker 46:14 and they didn't know anything about they are not worried about it. You know, she has a net worth, but Unknown Speaker 46:27 is there any black representation on plans today, that's where that's important not to, to, to be too heavy on the notion of, of too few black women, you know, available and who want to pick themselves. Unknown Speaker 46:51 I found this this morning, I was reading folly, marriage, and the liberation of black women. And I think that Napoleon and I think that there needs to be more black women here, not simply for their six before their takes upon the white women. And for this reason, the middle class, Negro, a woman's district. power relationships with separate black and white males disinfected by asserting a leadership role in the feminist movements, black woman can help keep it alive to the objectives of black liberation, while simultaneously advancing the interests of all women. I think that I think I think that something Unknown Speaker 47:33 was happening to Unknown Speaker 47:37 the women's movement, if it's full of some black activist women who do something to bring tradition has experienced, would it be Unknown Speaker 47:48 appropriate for those of us in this workshop to suggest that instead of doing this in random ways, that they analyze what they've done, and get your suggestions and other people's suggestions as to how to make some changes. I mean, the reasons I mentioned I'm aware of professional activity on a national level. There are it's not that there were not enough. There are, of course, not enough black women PhDs with there are a great many academic job training out there a great deal to offer and who are running conferences and doing just that this group taps Unknown Speaker 48:35 into that those PhDs who have you know, a credential Unknown Speaker 48:49 that you know, that Francis Watkins work has yet collected, I mean, it doesn't have to be done by a scholar. I mean, my PhD does not have it could be done by a journalist. It could be done by an English Unknown Speaker 49:06 major with a bachelor's but it is the kind of work and there is a great deal of that that Unknown Speaker 49:11 does need to jump in the beginnings of it don't have to be initiated necessarily by scholar, but certainly, to be around here to get that sort of spark that says, Well, I'll start and I'll Unknown Speaker 49:31 do it. I can't cry with some stuff like that. If I may. I just, I just wonder if anybody here was aware of the publications by black women in the United States, from say 1860 whatever it would be after Ned's patient, beginning in the period of reconstruction and going forward to about 1910 I suddenly realized, what is truth what is that in you? The newspapers in black, edited newspapers mostly in the south, there were not one, not two. But literally dozens of black women writing regular columns, regular editing, and that there is a whole body of writing, specifically journalistic, but God knows what else I mean, I just happen to become aware of this, which not only hasn't been collected, hadn't even been identified. Now the printouts, the printout, the computerized printouts of a lot of those black newspapers have just been done in the last couple of years, because very fancy projects, which were done at George Washington University and other places, so that there are printouts here, in the libraries in New York City, I'd say, I have a dozen new stuff. And it would be relatively straightforward, boring job, to go to the library and collect out the things under the topic, women under the topic, family topic marriage, for under women's names, to find out what sign article Unknown Speaker 51:05 20, what do I know what to tell my mother that we can't really talk about black literature, because we, we got to know what blacks have written. There, you have to go find out what exists and then Unknown Speaker 51:25 just wonder if anybody knows everybody working. Or if they're, you know, it's almost a collective project, because it's very boring. Just Unknown Speaker 51:36 on the other hand, you see, it might not be very boring if you're doing it as a black person identifying something. Unknown Speaker 51:49 Because you don't know, whatever you find, I mean, just look at six months of that material, and just identify the categories. There are a lot of excitement, I would think that Unknown Speaker 52:03 Well, you know, what has happened to my work is that I, I found it wasn't like stuff. And just identify, I do quite a bit if I were him, and I get blind in libraries. But then you go and you know, you start reading this stuff. And that, of course, if the answer I guess what I'm saying is this, that what I'm learning is that there is an enormous amount of stuff. It isn't that there isn't a literature, you just don't know where it is. And we haven't read it. And we haven't had a chance to digest it and start to, to deal with Unknown Speaker 52:40 it. And some of it keeps slipping away from us. Even as we work on it. I was talking to Professor Baxter, which is history here. And she said, What books do you use in the black literature course? And I said, well, at the beginning was eight years ago, nine years ago, we use all individual books, text, people books, Unknown Speaker 53:00 they going out of print, yeah, a Unknown Speaker 53:06 great portion of the big flood. literature have been permitted to go out of print or are being permitted to go out print. And I find myself saying to my students, please buy these books. Because I hope that 10 years from now, you might think of doing something with it, and you won't be able to get the book, you'll be back Unknown Speaker 53:27 to do well, and we're in the 50s 60s. Unknown Speaker 53:31 When you have to go and sit in the library, I taught a course at the New School in the 50s on the Negro character in American fiction, I can remember having to say to students, would you go to the reference room and read this book for me because I have never seen you lie and tell me about it? Unknown Speaker 53:51 Well, the majority of the books printed in the 60s, particularly is gone away. So Unknown Speaker 54:05 I thought about this because I in thinking about this workshop, I thought, Well, I think next semester, I'm going to have the students in my black literature course as their term papers, write about the treatment of black women by a particular black woman writer. And since I have sort of a commitment to the 19th century, early 20th century, I think people can go out and read what's happening today and they don't need a teacher for that. And then I began to people a bit a bit a bit quicksand is, is going out of stock, it's out of print, can't find quick stand up Unknown Speaker 54:47 for support for an asset cents on the table really quick. That means Unknown Speaker 54:53 is that a As the Arno press books have been pretty much remained in the field the Unknown Speaker 55:07 question of why there are so few black women at this conference? I think it's a very fascinating question. And and I wonder whether I mean, aside from the other structural things, all right. Even the Women's Center conferences do not advertise and they're there. And Jane knows who am I right now? And, you know, for people sign up, and she does send me flyers or whatever. Unknown Speaker 55:34 Because, because I'm not really working with New York, and I didn't hear about this until today. Somebody important? Send them out to all kinds of Unknown Speaker 56:04 No, I mean, I would just as as someone who's worked on Unknown Speaker 56:07 conferences, too, and then has the same sort of effect we've had over this weekend, and it would Unknown Speaker 56:13 have tried to come for over me, but Unknown Speaker 56:23 I think that you do that had what has to be understood is that black women do not come to conferences just because an announcement was made. Is because Because Because in a large part, we don't really Unknown Speaker 56:38 feel welcome. As it was, at one point, this morning, I thought, my God, I feel like Sojourner Truth is always preaching to the show. Unknown Speaker 56:52 Because I've mentioned this conference to several black women in the past four or five days, because they were asking me to come several different places today. And I said, I can't. All of them at that point wanted to know, I haven't heard of that confidence. And then when I pointed out to them, the workshops that related to black women, they would Unknown Speaker 57:10 immediately resist Unknown Speaker 57:12 it. They immediately interested, but already committed somewhere else and couldn't jump. And what I'm saying is that it's you know, sending out the press release and flyers, is one side of the communication element. But there's another side when you're trying to attract black women other than women because they have big, their own feelings about conferences at Bama, new school Columbia, mean, you just have a brief Unknown Speaker 57:46 story. I've been in our six conflicts. Number one, a couple of years, I invited sister's friends on the grid one year ago to women who had such a poor self image that I was just shattered. One of the things that happens is priestesses and one of the things that happens in a cop in this particular conference, a scholar and feminists is that the morning Scotland part is to be very if you're not used to hearing that way, so I leave and I don't feel stupid or I just say that's not the way I hear as they felt when I'm understanding the law. I must be the only one that does this and of course no matter how much I said this, Unknown Speaker 58:46 this I walked out or even years ago and understood Yes. Unknown Speaker 58:55 Piece of what says what does it take reserving read? How does that speak to blacks so that the assumption is that the black female who is also a scholar, and feminist hopefully will come in and hear this and be able to zoom right into what is white mainstream solid in my view, and that may not be where they're at or within was here. My reason for coming back over and over again, besides habit is the workshop which have been really wonderful. Every single year. So maybe part of that has to do with with the conference. And what is what? Was good So Unknown Speaker 1:00:06 I posted this morning and a couple of times this afternoon not literally asleep. But I mean, you know, but I couldn't sleep on on Alibaba, my eyes were closed, I probably slept, no, it would not matter. It's what she was saying, unless you speak the voice and wear it. Unknown Speaker 1:00:25 Now, there is a kind of schizoid element there. I personally, believe it myself and Scott, Unknown Speaker 1:00:35 find the morning talks, Unknown Speaker 1:00:37 very weighty as, especially as they go on at some length. And this morning, I was helped by my familiarity with the material, but I will tell you that I'm sitting next to Professor seem to prefer history, both of whom are feminist and both were more deeply involved in women's studies. And it wasn't until I passed them my Xerox from an article from science about what they were saying, and looked at it and read a paragraph and then they could hear the words and then it began to click again to say yes, now I know what they're saying, now I can listen. Now I know what language they're speaking in a way I can understand what they're saying. Unknown Speaker 1:01:23 Which is another kind of dialogue that could go on how people listen how the understanding that it isn't just, it's a black feminist scholar who would come here and find herself and some women in Unknown Speaker 1:01:37 class have this very active, very marvelous alumni class, and they take the opportunity to get together for many reasons of almost anything that happens on campus, which is great. They come to shows and they come to meetings, and they've been doing particularly since last was it last year with mostly artists and of course, there's really good availability anyway. Obviously, the with them, and they will really oppose me and again this afternoon, they didn't get anything, nobody got anything, but one thing that makes it so terrible, and then the French accents, and then one of them scribbled you have to you also have to translate the English as a bunch of smart women, right women, you see those things? It just is a problem with this particular topic. Unknown Speaker 1:02:45 That was discussed this morning that this is the trench Unknown Speaker 1:02:49 coat is seen as elitist. And when you combine it with the contradiction Was this the dichotomy was embodied in the conference itself and American view of accomplices all different kinds of people come in the American feminist view, particularly in chair in the scholarship as a kind of scholarship that we've been presented is upon that particular is antithetical to that viewpoint, I'm not sure that doesn't stay with that. I find it very difficult to go a step further and say that that scholarship is bad, because it's easily accessible if Unknown Speaker 1:03:27 they're very smart. They may someday come down to something that I wouldn't but it's what Unknown Speaker 1:03:33 you presented large numbers of other expectations isn't. Unknown Speaker 1:03:40 I said to these women, I said, you know, we Unknown Speaker 1:03:42 would never dream of going to Unknown Speaker 1:03:45 the cloud now it might be a few small sessions that you enjoy that you would never dream of going to the AMA or anything else for scholars hangers. Very fine. And you know, I had to agree at least partly because well even scholarly efficiency in your doors what you get into higher level things you got to have Unknown Speaker 1:04:28 a major law in a way I would think that high powered scholarship would look better than workshop. Unknown Speaker 1:04:33 I mean to to have been able to read Unknown Speaker 1:04:36 one of those papers. Yeah, that's right. And and then I don't understand let's work this. Oh, yeah. Because I would like to I think I might work better I think that, to some extent, might ease the butt I think, be ready enough chopping, getting back to black women and feminism, just listening to your presentation, pointing out the feminism in the poor Unknown Speaker 1:05:12 artists that you presented. Unknown Speaker 1:05:15 I think that for black women, they are again, those kinds of things have not been pointed out, you know, to take Zara's book, and apply to feminism, and to what that means the black women in general who read that, say, oh, that's about an oppressed black. But really divide that up and evaluate what that means in terms of feminism and how that applies to them, and how they to have found we sat on the porch and felt the walls closing in on them. And that's all part of development developing your feminist. You know, that's not, that's not something that black women get, often, or at all, Unknown Speaker 1:06:04 hardly ever, for Unknown Speaker 1:06:08 black literature to be evaluated from a feminist point of view for them. It's something that so rarely done that, you know, like, how do you see that? No, I don't know anyone in the field and writing. Who would say to you, the Zora Neale Hurston spoke about this just just one, Unknown Speaker 1:06:43 practical use in terms of why it does go back in his teeth to the planning. And it seems that those women who in the women's world who are feminists have had enough dialogue or liberal hearing about the nature of a different disparate conference, the differences and the differences, modes of outreach, or, or, you know, attempt to attract women who, you know, are hungry or should know, are really hungry for this. And I think the conference, what's been brought out here is, with black women in particular variables that we've talked about, but in general, also, other women, the conference planner, as well want, certainly could keep this an academic conference, but really deal with the kind of feminist imperative to share to, you know, to the deepest extent into the broadest extent, and that broad is extended, we embrace, you know, how do we make sure that in our fifth conference, now, we have at least Unknown Speaker 1:07:40 we do have black women who are educators in this city? I mean, we know that Sure. But it's that approach. Where Unknown Speaker 1:07:52 we should know by now that black women would feel very uncomfortable in small numbers in this group, unless one has had a lot of experience doing that. So how do we express a wealth of potential? In our very advertising? How do we get Unknown Speaker 1:08:09 those specifically? Because you have because when one starts to look for other minority, well, that data but it's, Unknown Speaker 1:08:23 it's really interesting that what this workshop is saying, is really what Unknown Speaker 1:08:27 what the lack of Unknown Speaker 1:08:29 panels in the listed panel was trying to say, and I think only or the lower within it actually did sin, which is that we, we can't leave we're not speaking and hearing each other. Now we're saying black and white because we're not using we're using somebody else's words we're not using words that are new to her turned around and that students is actually a very interesting question. And asking very, very refined language how within Oh, context, when one is using their language, and and she talked about space, and she talked about, you know, she used all the fancy words of accomplishments. And in other words, you know, how to walk and walk go on. And on and on, the Lord Unknown Speaker 1:09:36 said, she started to try Unknown Speaker 1:09:38 to answer and then she said you had rephrase the question. I don't I don't understand and hear this question. We're just done in their terminology. Exactly. And so the young woman was terrific, because she said, how do we deal with those guys? Unknown Speaker 1:10:03 It's exactly what's happening is that this the rhetoric of this, of this feminist movement leaders was just, and I think has carried away with itself. And what we're really saying is that the rest of us who are not stupid, and we are of one sort or another, are not hearing anymore. And that perhaps we really have to, if we if we want to win large, and we want to just bring in, you know, all of us and I think what you're what you started what in this workshop, but the theme being? How come is not that How come? You're so few? How come that 90% of this conference isn't black women, because black women really have addressed feminism from the beginning and really understand it and really have so much to offer? And here it is. So general is the old beauty? I mean, I have a question every day. I think that my question. Unknown Speaker 1:11:15 Dealing with black women and feminism. How many consider themselves feminists to come out and say, I want to go to a conference on feminism? Because I'm a feminist. No, Unknown Speaker 1:11:27 no. No, like was that they can't see it because of it. Because it's just in the right Unknown Speaker 1:11:38 context, it can be brought up like, a couple months ago, well, that comes with the coalition about a 100 black woman sponsored a conference at Marymount on Saturday, and there were 300 400 black women, and dressing issues are everything from you know, housing to women in media and politics and so forth within a black context. And I would say that the articulation of feminism is that just speaking from a feminist mode was not always there didn't have to be there. They it was understood. Yeah, that was so you Unknown Speaker 1:12:13 know, yeah, it was understood. Unknown Speaker 1:12:17 Had that Unknown Speaker 1:12:19 the interesting separations in our society now, I know my affiliations, Unknown Speaker 1:12:25 all with the white college in a Unknown Speaker 1:12:30 patriarchal society, and Unknown Speaker 1:12:33 in the same way that black women somehow go here, but this one I hear about that. Unknown Speaker 1:12:43 That was a fascinating situation, because in planning is very conservative planning. To do I mean, that's really what we dealt with to any turning, we'd have to turn away, at least beyond the women and heads. Were married. We just didn't have enough room. We had no, we didn't have room for this stuff. And, you know, the whole thing was, oh, we have we need this. And, and there was not a question of, is this a feminist conference? I mean, is this about like, feminism is almost an understood thing that we definitely are. Unknown Speaker 1:13:35 Concerned that we write to Unknown Speaker 1:13:38 that was the actual name you have it as a feminist conference? Unknown Speaker 1:13:44 I really, yes, yes. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:13:50 It was like that, but everything was the housing education policies, we cannot exclude us is everything that affects your long Unknown Speaker 1:14:03 workshops on all this stuff. Probably more directly addressing the social change aspect of it about because it's so excellent. Unknown Speaker 1:14:17 But I think that I think there's still that that tumor. Because that thing that allows you to identify with feminism is still difficult. Unknown Speaker 1:14:31 And destructive. Because conference, I wish we had a keynote address that anyone could understand. I mean, anyone who chose to come to the conference Unknown Speaker 1:14:42 would really understand and something that would set things, clarified things set up the language, so that when we listen to the rest of it, Unknown Speaker 1:14:54 we understood the language I can't remember. Do you remember the subject of the conference up for last but what wasn't wasn't just remember, I just remember feeling very, very lifted. You remember Unknown Speaker 1:15:05 that was born with him and his Unknown Speaker 1:15:11 very practice. And it was an extremely arcane Unknown Speaker 1:15:20 member that at one point, I can remember just saying, you know, I'm going to sit here, but I'm going to stop trying Unknown Speaker 1:15:27 to understand Unknown Speaker 1:15:28 what they're saying Unknown Speaker 1:15:38 useful in this workshop to talk about what next year's conference might as well. Because I always felt that it's more than basic content of the conference problem. And I don't think that having a couple of workshops that that deal with black feminism, or I mean, I think it's Unknown Speaker 1:16:02 more has to do with what is the overall structure Unknown Speaker 1:16:12 seem to be perfect when you're Unknown Speaker 1:16:16 much more involved? What are the differences this specific? I mean, that just differences in terms of language? That the differences I mean, what I still based on this morning, what is the difference? Let's talk a word about the whole biological, brain and Antonina from that guy. Or if you do this, even if you don't do dialogical differences, just in terms of life, what are the differences? I remember, I said a Unknown Speaker 1:16:56 remark someone made last night that I had one problem may be that Unknown Speaker 1:17:03 the planning of the conference Unknown Speaker 1:17:06 planning conference is very scholarly. I dressed the minutes and sometimes they were already talking about things that I just didn't understand. And one thing someone said something like, Well, I feel that I've had a year seminar in this or something. So that to some extent, the papers that that we hear, Unknown Speaker 1:17:30 are the combination of Unknown Speaker 1:17:34 someone's thinking about things, reading about things to the videography, talking things out. You know, which they they are now ready for. But this is Yeah, it's true. Unknown Speaker 1:17:49 You're absolutely right. That's how we started that day, the most high level things we did absolutely, dad. So I found two one or two and I just can't stay beyond just sitting in the room. And that's, that's appropriate for all women's Unknown Speaker 1:18:08 studies. No ballet Unknown Speaker 1:18:12 is not appropriate for this art thing, which is not supposed to be the inner content. Unknown Speaker 1:18:19 No, yeah. I think it's possible that really in the beginning, Unknown Speaker 1:18:34 no, that's different though. You can read most of the signs, articles Unknown Speaker 1:18:39 on our conferences, once a year in Bryn Mawr. Unknown Speaker 1:18:44 He was born in Western Massachusetts, the Berkshires current history. Unknown Speaker 1:18:52 One can really be scholarly without being arcane. And it's one thing to feel an obligation to make your scholarly remarks clear to an audience and it's another for your scholarly remarks to in fact, be the outgrowth of starting a little bit ahead of where we are now and working for a year and this is the crowning Unknown Speaker 1:19:15 glory. I felt, I think, this morning with a better way to do it. I didn't download sort of schoolmarm ish. Unknown Speaker 1:19:27 But what I meant was that I knew the kind of language they use these things Unknown Speaker 1:19:30 and I don't have access to that kind of language and I get to say something about structuralism Unknown Speaker 1:19:38 or the deep structure Unknown Speaker 1:19:42 or something like that. Probably if I spent a year working on this sort of thing or talking about it with other scholars working more and more into it, I would finish your Unknown Speaker 1:19:59 essay way to set up this is workshops, unlike the ones at the Women's Studies conferences are which is why, you know, you've always found them so great I like them they're two completely different issues some of which are in French feminism, today's roster, but it's not our our love to this one and and and women in power women in politics always try to bring people in to talk about feminist issues. And so perhaps he made this thing a little less glitzy we should you know, that make making Unknown Speaker 1:20:42 some relationship relationship to the people who are coming. Or they have Unknown Speaker 1:20:49 the obligation to hand us really a some kind of a background as you know, paper Unknown Speaker 1:21:02 send out programs give us a brief of what we can expect from us. And that, you know, I think Unknown Speaker 1:21:11 people would start to talk about what a scholarly what is scholarship, I felt that's what audience is talking about. But she was saying to me, I thought her paper was very scholarly. And the word, I think it's the language, the words like construct a paradigm. Yes. Oh, here we go. One senator. Unknown Speaker 1:21:38 Like oneself, not so much that I don't understand. It's an excuse not Unknown Speaker 1:21:43 to that to my ears off, because it's not my reality. And I don't feel the scope to customer we do that way. And maybe that needs to be addressed. Unknown Speaker 1:21:53 Especially scholarship, as relates to within this within this movement. Because it seems to me that one would always want to question the effect of your work and of your words. And it seems that even at the highest level of scholarship, that if one is working from a feminist mode, we cannot afford not to Unknown Speaker 1:22:11 have the effect of Unknown Speaker 1:22:13 action. I mean, and that's what he was thinking about that the word should affect action within Unknown Speaker 1:22:21 the lives of people this morning, and she was talking about the psycho, psychological, I'm sure that I will sit down and read what she spoke, I will probably be excited and motivated to look more deeply into what she was discussing and the effects of differences in terms of boys and girls and the mother. The father is not where whatever, but I couldn't, I wasn't motivated by what I heard, I had a sense that there was something in there that would bother me, I just don't have right now continue to commit to clubs. And what is I mean, I suddenly wants to use repressive officials and identity interesting to suggest the society's values. Unknown Speaker 1:23:17 And having those values because they realize that make mistake not see maturity as being able to be dependent and rely on these values and truth. And so to make that real, real split with their mother, that boys do always have to be different because they're not the mother is dependent on pharmacy, isolated in a navy, in a proper society and how we get our strength as women is by building support networks. And by being determined is not taking the tour child as it is different crime further, we've got to luckier value those things, maybe try to listen, I think a lot of what you say is accessible Unknown Speaker 1:23:55 to you. Just what you're saying. And I think maybe this is a suggestion that maybe people coming Unknown Speaker 1:24:03 to the conference are going to have contain this kind of material should Unknown Speaker 1:24:06 be given a little bit of certainly I could have put an advanced of those French ladies with? Unknown Speaker 1:24:15 Um, well, I would say I sort of think I have jumped over a lot of psychology terminology. I think a lot of what he was saying was he was I could understand it was accessible. I think some of the stuff about linguistics, this just is never going to be made. I don't know that it's wrong for somebody to be doing it. They have almost no relevance. It seems to me with my life, trying to drag myself to a nine to five job I think it Unknown Speaker 1:24:43 can be made real Unknown Speaker 1:24:48 the way you move the way you speak. I mean what the words you use, say to people. I mean, that's linguistics. You know for someone who did well Only when someone says no what they mean, when they say Unknown Speaker 1:25:07 no to me. But, you know, that's not what they would give any up in there, they were giving us the thing of yours, but are presuming that all that stuff that they read, and this is the scholarly tradition wasn't meant to be spoken. Unknown Speaker 1:25:29 Yeah, so then we should, they should be asked to present something that would encourage us to agree with Unknown Speaker 1:25:37 be allowed to read what they're going to say. Or they should be asked to write for reading, Unknown Speaker 1:25:44 or something, because that is not understandable. I'm sure that if I have a total of 20 pages, I will be very excited. And just like you have them scanning what it was he was talking about, and appreciate it. And please apply possibly to my own work in development, listening to her, that motivates me to do anything. Also. Next up, Unknown Speaker 1:26:10 just that thing we were talking about, it sets up a response in the same terms. And so you lose your human being, I would love to have someone confront money. Talk about her work, if you've ever read like where yeah, we want to ask her some questions. It was so far away from that language from her online, would you? Unknown Speaker 1:26:35 Yeah, I'm saying I would like to have been able to ask questions after I heard them, but I couldn't. I couldn't formulate any Unknown Speaker 1:26:45 changes suggested papers. And things that I should be reading beforehand, because now it's clear to me, even though I have read Margaret molars Unknown Speaker 1:27:05 psychological stuff. And that's what she's Unknown Speaker 1:27:10 actually Unknown Speaker 1:27:12 coming from. And that's sort of Neo Ericksonian, which is Neo Freudian business as what she speaks of the separation and the differentiation. I knew I had those problems I have that background is killing us Unknown Speaker 1:27:29 to another level or into another aspect of it. And so that was clear. The other stuff I have no doubt. Again, perhaps I kept wishing I had it in print economy. Certainly if it was Unknown Speaker 1:27:43 some time reading Mr. brasserie, time to do I think you're gonna do the spelling thing. One of the things that I when I was talking to people this week about regardless, they said, well, in that, what are they going to talk about? The titles? So what does that mean? And I said, I don't know maybe when I get there, there'll be more resource material available before the conference starts, I believe you would have given me some biographical data on women who are going to speak I don't happen women, the five to 600 women ever sitting there really no. Unknown Speaker 1:28:23 Regulation, the free markets really have Unknown Speaker 1:28:25 nothing to do the people that I'm sending by they're going to continue on your choices. Another question here, what Unknown Speaker 1:28:34 you said before, when you were making your opening presentation, you said that that is that article coming close to an access point, but it's about white middle class women who have over time that separates them from black women who don't have that same experience and pppd agency. I've had very unpleasant experiences with these very same people and everyone a cane or they have their fathers, they have their sons, they have their husbands and I think we all know that the easiest thing Unknown Speaker 1:29:09 to do is is why we have a fabulous movie. But how Unknown Speaker 1:29:12 much is that Unknown Speaker 1:29:14 schism still see? Unknown Speaker 1:29:17 What degree of significance is that in terms of ever bridging this gap? Is Is there less? I mean, I've seen more black women as engineers to get declared as a standard. Unknown Speaker 1:29:33 Now there are more that are right now in families statistically now, working class, lower class black women and deep support most of the issues involved in the woman's movement to grade age, white women, statistically it's because in truth, the real places much less will be flipped off. He said after you have eliminated. Was that Oh, yeah. Yeah, she did. Unknown Speaker 1:30:09 I thought it was. But anyway, actors, but this is where once you Unknown Speaker 1:30:27 start talking about bodily functions babies and men come about well, once you start talking about bodily functions, babies, again, you're no longer talking about women. And men, I think, whatever language they use, certainly working with lower class welfare mothers and what have you black women know the bodily functions do support Unknown Speaker 1:31:01 issues. I mean, I, you know, in the community when, you know, little complicated, so to speak, a lot of work. And wealthy women show up. They're there and they are very vocal. The question is getting them out there into the larger body so that the voices can be heard, but they're there. And they they are very accurate. They numbered one Unknown Speaker 1:31:29 from another student conference just back. Unknown Speaker 1:31:35 Plus source, I have the impression they Unknown Speaker 1:31:37 weren't very nice. Oh, there were Unknown Speaker 1:31:40 just the direct delegation alone. That was there. 97 people were most within 30 35% Blue. Unknown Speaker 1:31:52 There's just not the impact involved. And in that conference was this fantastic problem that everybody's still trying to work on. Keeping them going. It was just fantastic to see them there and talk I talked to several women from all over the country and a very sophisticated in thinking and talking about women in the South Pacific gotten got themselves elected delegates score on the plane negotiating what the white women were going to vote for and what they would vote for in turn so that I want the minority climate change. Do you want this class I'll give you give me I was a political for this. Awesome, very aware of what they wanted to they knew exactly what they were just and to Unknown Speaker 1:32:50 kind of follow up. You know, it's just a small example of that, when young women love women that was involved in case your conference, went back to Yale and was very excited about and so forth. Subsequently, I went there and spoke there was a whole black feminists speaking and Tony came from bar barbers in Boston, and then the Third World Women's Council at Yale in the last year and have has really grown and expanded out of the interest of that one young black woman and a couple of other women material inspiring. And I was back there a couple of months ago, speaking to the third row Women's Council, and so many of those young women that were seniors, five of them saying, we are coming to New York next year, we want to know what's going on in Louisiana, we want to get involved in terms of where we've been moving since 68. When you're talking about the working class, working class, working class or poor black women, period, or you know, young women who happen to have Unknown Speaker 1:33:48 male peers movement, Unknown Speaker 1:33:51 very much, you know, away from this, the big question is appearing like keeping in Unknown Speaker 1:33:57 and becoming more integrated