Unknown Speaker 00:05 We're glad you're here. Unknown Speaker 00:12 I'm glad to be here as well. And I really appreciate the statements that were made before me. I think I've learned some things. I think I disagree with some things. But I guess at the point that we get into the discussion, some of that will be brought out. It's my understanding that the very title of my presentation has caused some stirrings of disagreement. Why would I choose such as title since feminism, anti racism, and the peace movement is the title of this overall workshop, and something which each of us black and white is supposed to be addressing? Perhaps I would do my presentation, a great service by first laying out some of the points of departure from which I will proceed. And one of the presentations, several of the presentations, you know, we kept hearing the significance of the interconnection of our struggles. And I think that that's, you know, what I'd like to have appreciated that there is an interconnection. At the same time when asked what comes first race, sex, peace, and that they all kind of on the same plane, I think we should recognize that very often. These things have been defined by some other people. For example, in the 50s, when Rosa Parks sat on a bus in Montgomery, Alabama, she was not dragged off of that bus because she was a woman, she was dragged off of that bus because she was a black person. So that wow, you know, we would like to say that my gender and my race on an equal plane, there are some realities which we are confronted with that I'm sure we must deal with. I'd like to start with a poem by Audrey Lord, who said it was simple. There are so many roots to the tree of anger that sometimes the branches shatter before they fall. Sitting in nicks, the women rally before they march, discussing the problematic girls they hire to make them free. And almost white counterman passes a waiting brother to serve them first. And the ladies need to notice or reject the slider prayer pleasures of their slavery. But I who am bound by my mirror, as well as my bed, see causes in color, as well as insects, and sit here wondering which me will survive all these Liberation's? Unknown Speaker 02:55 First, the history of African American people in the United States is a history of resistance. From net Tana, to Rosa Parks. From Sojourner Truth to Malcolm X, black people have resisted oppression, degradation and injustice at every level of their existence in the United States. It is my contention that the black female has played a significant role in this resistance, and a view of the past three decades alone, where Rosa Parks ignited the Montgomery bus boycott on December 1 1955, to a SATA sicot, also known as Joanna Chisholm odd, who continues to carry the revolutionary tradition forward in a leadership capacity, which show us this. Black women have historically participated in every facet of the anti racism, feminism and peace movement, from writers such as Gloria Joseph and I have a whole list but because we're in time, I'll go off to labor organizers, from community activists. Black women have participated in every avenue of struggle for justice, jobs, peace and freedom to when looking at the history of America, the survival and I underlined the word survival of the African race within the boundaries of these United States is in of itself, a form of resistance. I quote from Gerda Lerner, editor of Black woman and write America, a documentary history, quote, over and over again. In the 350 years of history, black people white America have had to struggle for sheer survival, not only physical and economic survival, but spiritual survival was at stake as generation after generation sought to come to terms with an impeccably hostile and exploitative environment. Three, the history of resistance in the United States of all other groups, during the last three decades has been a history that has been inspired by the anti racism and peace movement of the African American nation in this country. While some people will acknowledge this, most people tend to believe that the history of resistance resistance to sexism to racism, and war began with the peace movement of the 60s when it became predominantly white in color. For my definitions of sexism, and its counterpart, feminism, racism, and its counterpart, nationalism, and if you will, self determination for African American people, for Chinese American people, but you can have American people, etcetera, and peace versus its counterpart, war, all lie within an understanding analysis of the very system, which has developed racism, sexism, and war, to some of its most sophisticated forms, capitalism, paternalism. We can't talk about ending the evils of racism, sexism, and war, without talking about the termination of their root causes in the world today, systems of injustice, and an era which constantly plagues all three of these movements. That is the anti racism movement, the peace movement, and the feminist movement, is the notion that sexism, racism, racism and war can be ended in the United States without the destruction of capitalism first, yes, we can struggle against racism, we must struggle against racism. But the bottom line is that racism is as American as apple pie. And the recent Democratic primaries have shown us that the apples are alive and well. We can't end racism without ending capitalism. Racism is systemic. Yes, we can struggle against sexism, we must struggle against sexism. But history has proven that those in power never give up that power until they are overthrown, they might make a few concessions, and they might even encourage women to put on a suit and tie or a hard hat in the conditions when the conditions are right, such as during World War Two. But concessions are always granted so that they can be taken back. We can't end sexism in the United States without a total rearrangement of the United States and peace. What is that? When black men, women and children can be killed at any point in any place in these United States by either civilians, or those in uniform, without the murderer ever having to spend a night in jail, or even to think of life in jail? From the disproportionate number of black soldiers on the front lines and Vietnam, to the recent bombings in Nicaragua, we understand that peace is inextricably interwoven with racial justice at home and abroad. It is no wonder that significant numbers of black people have not gotten involved in the anti nuke movement, when survival today becomes an issue. When infant mortality, for example, in the black community is twice the infant mortality rate for the rest of the country as a whole, when 70% of our youth can't find a job. And a large percentage of those will never see a job when 80% of the urban prisons are black and Latin as compared to a less than 20% Black population in the United States. And of course, I could go on with these statistics. But these statistics don't even begin to touch the day to day crisis struggle for survival, that makes peace important. On the one hand when we talking about an overall concept or holistic concept of peace, but not a priority to many people on the other, because those of us with consciousness recognize the fact that war in recent years, has hurt the Black and Brown population of this world disproportionately to the white population, to say nothing of the fact that the wars that are being fought are being fought to keep the Rockefeller class in conflict and to prevent the self determination of those people being invaded. We have as a whole participated in support movements for the liberation struggles of the world and anti draft movements right here at home for militarism, a system which places funds in the budget for war, while snatching away funds for service areas within the black and white communities in these United States is affecting black and brown communities because we already occupied the bottom of the service ladder in this country at an even greater proportion than that of the white community. So we must be concerned with militarism and we must take anti military militarism stance. My intention here is not to pit the two communities against each other. My suggestion, however, is is that as we start to examine the realities of militarism, and attempt to determine how much time we had before warmongers cast us into destruction, we've got to determine one who and what is the main enemy of the world today, and to what are the main forces countering the movement toward war, and three, how we must operate independently and collectively to change the course of world events. By way of an introduction to some other statements I'd like to make concerning where we are in these movements. I'd like to read an excerpt excerpt from a book by Gloria Joseph and Joe Lewis, common differences, conflicts and black and white feminist perspectives. This statement kind of summarizes the 60s and gives us some background for where we are today. A courageous speech of the 60s movement during its later stages was the emphasis on uniting all the downtrodden regardless of race. Thus Native Americans, poor whites, Asian Americans, Hispanics, all who were suffering from some form of discrimination were engaged in the struggle. It was black leadership's articulation and analysis of third world struggles that was responsible for the multiracial alliances within a movement in which the overwhelming majority of protesters were black. In 1979, I look at the record of black and white cooperation and progress made by black showed that blacks and whites were not closer socially or politically, nor had the overall economic picture for black people improved. Actually, the social and economic gap between blacks and whites has widened since the 60s when the dream began, its marching to the manifestation stages. It was a little over 13 years ago, when 1000s of black people responded to the murder of Martin Luther King with riots and rebellions. Today, the rights demanded by the protesters are still out of reach. Living conditions, jobs and education levels for the vast majority of black people have not improved. In some cases they have been worsen joblessness amongst black youth is near six 60% Recent statistics say 70%, the gap between white and black incomes has widened. Black medical doctors comprise only 2.2% of their profession, black lawyers 3.4% and Black Engineers 1.0%. Nationwide blacks comprise close to 50% of the prison population. Even though blacks comprise less than 20% of the total United States population. The death rate for minority preschool children is approximately 50% higher than for white children. Today, the black liberation movement has lost its news making attraction. And the women's movement has emerged as the current popular social movement in the United States. As yet, we do not say women and men together we shall overcome. On the contrary, many people feel that the women's movement implies a severe separation of men and women. And she goes on to talk about the fact that you know this book is committed to try to point to some of the differences as well as the similarities in this perspective towards the feminist movement here. Unknown Speaker 14:06 Now, in the 80s, we look at a resurging movement for peace for Jobs and Freedom when we look at the encampment and Seneca I think which inspired all of us that you know, so saw the slides, and also for those of us who are black when we look at the campaign of Reverend Jesse Jackson for the presidency of the United States. Since we had a presentation on Seneca I'd like to suggest that the campaign of Jackson is the largest campaign in this country for jobs for peace for the rights of all women and not just white women, and for justice against racism. Jackson is the only candidate as yet who has not only given lip service to the era, but he's developed a position paper expressing the need of the equality of women in this nation. He is the only real peace candidate that advocates total withdrawal of ouch from Latin America in the rights of struggling people in Africa, Latin America, Asia for self determination, and he is the only candidate that suggests unity between all oppressed peoples here in the United States. Of course, I could go on. But this is not a stand up for Jesse Jackson speech, but a suggestion that there is a movement taking place around this man, which we can classify as a movement for peace, a movement for women's rights, and a movement for racial justice. Of course, it is very unfortunate that racism has not allowed people to be supported of this movement. In a way that would be a real statement to the power brokers of this country. If we had only dared join hands this one time, then perhaps our attempts at unity in the future would be less difficult. At this point, I'd like to end with a quote from a piece by Sundiata. Kohli and titled some solutions or some things to do, and I think it basically summarizes how we should move. We already know what strategy the enemy will use, divide and conquer, he will try to divide us from ourselves from other domestic forces and from international forces. To win, we must do just the opposite of what the enemy desires. Fighting to win in the first sense means we must divide the enemy while uniting our own forces. That means we unite blacks on independence, we unite the Native American struggle to regain their land and sovereignty. We unite with the Chicano Mexicans struggle for national liberation and regaining of their land. We unite with the Puerto Rican struggle for independence for socialism for Puerto Rico, we unite with the Asian American struggle for domestic and human rights and against oppression of minority nationalities will unite with the oppressed white classes on progressive goals and with revolutionary whites on socialist revolution in the United States, and will unite with progressive international countries, movements and organizations on common goals that in itself will divide the enemy, yet we must divide him further while uniting our forces further at every stage, victory is dependent on each of us doing just that. Andre and I both find a heroine in a sock to secure and I plan to end with a quote from her. But instead, I will end with a quote from the his heroic people struggle of Grenada, for whatever, for whatever backwards never thank you. Unknown Speaker 17:49 Been around here, it's past 12. And I think we should take 20 minutes at least for discussion. Would anybody want to stay past that? I'll stay past that. Certainly, I kind of need to second to get my breath out of Zala. I really think that what we need to talk about, and what we can use this forum to discuss is how, what is the vision that we see, ultimately? And what is the step that we think we can get there? Because For my own part, I constantly find myself talking about peace and non violence. And thinking that yes, peace is what I'm wanting. But really, at this point, uproar is what I'm wanting? And how do all of us who really want to make things better? Work out what we really feel inside, which is we have to make things very different and very much louder and very much more, much less peaceful in some ways. I don't know how to reconcile it. We have some women here from Greenham Common, who perhaps could give us a little update on exactly what's happening there. It certainly isn't peaceful in any understanding of the word that we normally accept. There being evicted every day. Maybe when you have a word or two, you'd want to give sure we have time to do that. This is a real example of how piece is far from passive microphone just to go on Unknown Speaker 19:13 vacation. Take comments while I'm going and I live in London, but I've been here for a while involved in a lawsuit that green and women are bringing against Regan that's not to say that women in Britain think that we need to turn our attentions to lawsuits and stop doing direct action. The cam is continuing. And I really want to say to everyone in the room, please tell everyone you know that this is the situation because we're very few people here and constantly plagued by telephone calls from people who are saying I'm really freaking out of evicted the camp. And my reaction to that is why do you believe what you read in the New York Times? Since when has the New York Times been In giving us the truth on these kinds of issues. As far as I know it, there are women at eight gates at the camp, as there have been for quite a long time now. And although police harassment is bad, there are women who are determined to be there. This is not the first eviction there's been at Greenham. There have been many evictions in the past. And women have always found ways of staying there. It's the first eviction that has been widely reported in the United States, both on television and in the newspapers. And people have the impression that the thing is over final and finished. Of course, that's what they want you to think. So please tell people that's not the case. Even if it were the case, I think it should only redouble our efforts, both here and there to keep going on this particular issue. Thanks for the opportunity. Unknown Speaker 20:59 Any questions from the floor? I'd like to put out first of all, that this forum is being taped for BI. We can't ask everybody to sign a release. But women in the room who would want to withhold their names should just be aware that this is what's happening. And be careful. If you're in trouble. If you if you're worried about getting on tape, be aware that you're getting on tape. So go Unknown Speaker 21:30 to questions for NASA, and one for anybody who wants to answer. Use a pacifism to along these attack on the street, one on one side. Unknown Speaker 21:40 I'll repeat the questions afterwards also Unknown Speaker 21:43 attack one on one on the street. Second, the use of passengers and now in Nicaragua. Second question for the panel. I think that all the things about new connections on Earth, we hope someday obviously true. What I'd like to see is some reflection on economic structures. Because I think that all of us made the important point that material impoverishment is the major cause of the motivation for real change. What I hadn't seen in the feminist movement yet, this is just a whole feature is now we know again, that capitalism is again, who's your friend Unknown Speaker 22:28 can just gonna repeat this for the benefit of the tape. Anyone that didn't hear that we are being asked, What's the point of what's the use of pacifism in a one on one attack on a woman? What's the use of pacifism in the current struggle in Nicaragua? And what is the feminist movement going to do with its analyst analysis of connections? Unless it really addresses material and economic connections, as well as the right Unknown Speaker 22:54 thoughts on how to do it? Unknown Speaker 22:58 Okay, you want me to go first? First of all, first of all, pacifism is a way of thinking about It's a philosophy. I mean, you don't throw a philosophy at someone who's attacking you. So I mean, if what you mean is, is? What's the use of nonviolent direct action against someone who's attacking? I mean, you know, attacking you on the street? I mean, I think really, I think feminist thinking about non violence and violence and pacifism is, is evolving. I mean, I myself make a distinction, for example, between a movement tribe of collected people engaging in intentional action, and trying to figure out how to go about doing this, and the immediate response of a woman on the street to being attacked. You know, I myself, I think, if I was attacked, would prefer to talk my way out of it. I think that would just be if it were possible, you know, that would that would be a better way to do it. If that if I didn't think that was going to work. And these are judgments that get made like this. And I could figure out some way to inflict enough injury on my opponent to get away, I would do it. But it's, it's it's an abstract question, in a way. And I feel like it's not a fair question. Because when I talk about pacifism, I'm talking about how people together decide to engage in some sort of collect that collective action against state power and against the coercion and violence of the state. And I'm talking and and, and I think that that presents us with a different situation. I feel differently about Joanne Joanne little in her jail cell with her jailer, I've talked about this with many women who think of themselves as pacifist and I think you know, and as feminists and I think that this is a really a shared kind of perspective, I mean, that and I was your question about Nicaragua, El Salvador, Unknown Speaker 24:41 Nicaragua second questions, because I got to say about the first one that you're gonna talk about as a strategy for collective action. Question for information that has criticism or what you see as we use. I mean, the use in a country like we have a pacifist philosophy Celtic philosophies abstract thought to be the most concrete thing in our lives? Well, Unknown Speaker 25:08 I think I think all I think, first of all that I don't really I don't understand enough. And I don't mean because I haven't read enough or talked to enough people from Nicaragua, because I'm not Nicaraguan because I'm not in that situation, to make some sort of judgment about how people should proceed with that struggle. I mean, I'm very aware that my own pacifist thinking and commitment comes out of being an American, of being a white American and thinking about what that means in the world today. And that that's really you know, about as far as I go with it, and you know, someone can can say that this is inconsistent, or you're copping out, but I don't, I don't really care. Because I think that I, you know, at the moment, I don't think I can come up with something like, that's, like, totally consistent with consistency. I mean, I think I can just try and proceed as honestly as I can. And that, that my position on Nicaragua and El Salvador, and all that, you know, is is is against intervention is for self determination. And I wouldn't say what I would do, if I were in that situation, I do know that I've talked with many Nicaraguans on El Salvador and to talk about the cost of violence, the difficulty of violence, the reluctance with which the gun was taken up, the need to engage the escalation of the violence because of the US role in the area, and how much bloodier you know, and prolonged and agonizing and horrible, you know, that the struggle has been, you know, and so, so I think that's really more where I've, I've concentrated my sort of commitment to non violence, you know, is in trying to do something about those things and thinking about those things. That's really as much of an answer as I can get. Unknown Speaker 26:50 Think she was opening it up to the whole panel to discuss the other part of her question, which was, which was how in the future is feminist movement going to take steps to deal with the materialist analysis of oppression? Unknown Speaker 27:08 like to say something. Before I do say, addressed that, in particular, I'd like to just pick up on what was being said about pacifism. I think that we all recognize, you know, if we've been involved in, you know, struggles for social justice, that passes pacifism is obviously one means of resistance, you know, it is not a panacea. But at the same time, we look at the question of Nicaragua, obviously, Nicaragua is not in position to respond with militarism, of at the level that the United States is able to deal with it. So the Nicaragua took its case, to the World Court. But I think a question that we have to deal with, is how do you make an international outlaw this government, which violates international law, the Charters of regional bodies, its own laws, and refuses to come before the World Court? How do you make that kind of government responsive? And you know, it, I think it just goes back to pacifism being one means, but obviously, not the totality of the quality of responses that are needed to make real change in this country and in this world. The other thing, in terms of economic theory in relationship to the future, the future types of social orders that will render a quality existence and one that also is peaceful, or has a quality of peace. I think I would have to go back to something that Martin Luther, Luther King Jr. said, and he said that the humans future the future of humankind will not hinge entirely on capitalism, or communism, but will be a synthesis of the two. And I, and I really believe that that is the direction that probably the world would go and I think at some point, women will start to develop economic theories, you know, that may broaden what is currently being posed as to, you know, divergent views. But that's the only comment that I wanted to make on. The question Unknown Speaker 29:51 in talking about the interconnectedness of Unknown Speaker 29:54 different issues, I just like some comments on working with sexist men And on other issues, I've had a lot of experience Unknown Speaker 30:04 in the anti interventionist and peace movements, where I've gotten so frustrated with sets of procedures and attitudes that I've said, forget. And how would we, as feminists deal with this problem in other industries? Unknown Speaker 30:19 Okay, so the question is, how do we deal with sexist men and organizing? Unknown Speaker 30:32 Well, just, you know, off the top, something that I think of having gone through the struggle with Nick Evers, which is 75%, female, is at first of all, it's difficult to respond to it qualitatively or effectively, as an individual that, and really having some measurable kind of impact, you must respond as part of collective group. And I think history informs us that that is the way that we have to respond to sexism, as well, even in cases of nations that have had social revolutions, for example, Cuba, even after they opened the doors for women to be involved in social or socialist production, so to speak, they found that women were not really participating at the level that they were reflected in the population. And they had to deal with sexism in the household and make other kinds of adjustments in the society to involve women. But in that, in that instance, it wasn't the men who said, Okay, we got to make these changes. It was the Federation of Cuban women who analyzed what was happening and the data and said that these changes must be made. And they took a lot of steps and did a lot of political education to create public opinions, so they could move forward, you know, which they did and put things into law as well. Unknown Speaker 32:05 I think that the collective response is something that's very needed, but I also think that, you know, we have to have some individual responses, and that has to do with what you will and what you will not do and what you will and will not accept, Andre, and I very, very close, and we spend a lot of time dealing with the problem, but you know, verbally dealing with the problem of sexism, you know, in an institution where, you know, we've had a very clear fight against racism, okay, and Jim Crow ism, but that how, when it came to the question of the rights of women, you know, we started to get some reaction from both males and females who had been indoctrinated with the view of, of sexism. But I think on an individual level, you know, we have to reach a point where there are certain things we will not tolerate. Now, that's not to say that the power structure is still not in a position to be all powerful over you, and you say, you won't tolerate it, okay, you're fired. But then that's also again, the case says in in racism, that, you know, you still fight, you know, even at the point that there's some very, very significant risks involved. And it becomes very crucial. I think, that because of the sexism and the frustration that may come out of it, that we don't then flip to the side of making these people our enemy, because they are not necessarily and in most cases are not our enemy. And they to the sexes, male have to go through a process of re education. All right, just as it would be easy for me as a black person to ginger, see, hey, all white folks in my enemy. There was a process of education that made me recognize that that's not true. On the My enemy is very specific. And I think that, you know, the same applies to, you know, my understanding of how sexism operates, that, you know, I won't see all men as my enemy, but that on an individual day to day basis, you know, something shorted the collective response which we must make is a response that Isola Chandler must make that there are certain things that I will tolerate and certain things that I won't tolerate that I will fight physically, mentally, and all kinds of other ways against. Unknown Speaker 34:36 Some internal bell rang. Unknown Speaker 34:39 This is obviously a horrible negative connection. But I tried to make this into a question, but I can't go to the comments as a comment, which is that I'm involved now with reopening of Seneca second year and let me is no longer there it is because I see very strongly that it's a fulcrum, where women, all different kinds of women can come together and can be a cutting finding edge, or addressing the kinds of issues that we addressing. And for being, you know, we're really doing the kinds of things that green is doing, which is constantly raising the issue and, and really challenging people in the area and around the country. But my main reason also for getting involved was because when I saw last year is there was a lot of lip service given towards making connections, and towards really having women of all different backgrounds can speak for having women be part of the organizing, but that that didn't happen last year. And part of the reason that things didn't happen was because there was so much work to be done. I think this is sort of the kinds of things we have to address here is that you have to cry out when it's like dealing with racism, or dealing with childcare or dealing with issues for the physically challenged take extra work, right if you're a mostly white organizing group, at the beginning. And, and because there's so much to do last year, that never happened, right? Extra enemy. My understanding and people couldn't get it. That's incorrect. But I think it was just because there wasn't time, you know, and then just an energy. But now here, we have something here, and it's April, and I see the same things happening all over again. And it just really scares me disappoints me when we had this chance to really create a build something, and everyone's always talking about it. And that the same old shit is happening again. Are those 4% New York City as much as last year, it's much more upstate looking thing. I just have a sort of scream and cry to you. Because I guess I understand to some extent it'd be nice to get them for a while in the beginning. Unknown Speaker 37:13 This is a responsive question either. It's Unknown Speaker 37:17 a sharing of concern. Unknown Speaker 37:20 From what I heard you say in terms of redefining past and looking at things differently, that seems to be the charge that we have as women? How do you define pacifism? And how does that get determined any more than feminism, as just being passive is not moving. If you look at some of the origins of the concepts of where passages where that concept came from, you get back to African cultures, and Eastern cultures, which embrace gains and gains and unity and conflicts opposites as part of the normal makeup of everything. No more than being feminine means you can't think or you can't fight this passage with me used to damage just like them. Sometimes it may mean having to use a creative energy or resource that is not as a parent or as obvious, I think that's a charge that we may have the same way as a woman is attack, but she doesn't have the same strength she may have environment or human has to do the martial arts and literacy person go by or by using the body differently, as if she can actually fly. We are called on to deal with. From an agent's perspective, as human, I think that until we seriously address the issues that are being brought up here is not going to happen. I mean, we cannot look at it in a linear progression is that we're gonna do this and prioritize this, we have to look and you have to think in circles. We have to think and even our usage of philosophy, the philosophy can't be a linear philosophy that we can take from philosophy can have been handed down by a patriarchal system, we have to recreate it. And I think that's the choice. I would like to know from the panelists. How are we going to deal with what do you see is a possibility to even sub kind of dialogue amongst ourselves to deal with? How are we going to incorporate it into connect the problems of racism and feminism? Because I hear and the problems that I'm you know, we're all feeling that, but we still haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty of what kind of counsels are we going to serve and what are we going to do? My answer is kind Unknown Speaker 39:58 of going back to what Andrea was talking about because I was not distressed at seeing the Seneca camp, predominantly white women moving forward around a very significant issue. I think that, you know, this has to do with, you know, the changing me also because at one time, I thought we always had to do it together, if there was a black one person in the white personality, that's the one we had to deal with. As opposed to saying that the leadership's primary responsibility is to be conscious, having done some study and some research of world events and world history, so that once you bring your people together, whatever the primary group is, you know what it's based on black, white gender, what that you can begin to expose those people and learn from those people. ways of making change. Okay, so if you go to Seneca and all you discuss is the nuclear bomb, as opposed to the kinds of things that I heard, you know, Jeb talking about then that would have disheartened me more than not seeing a whole bunch of black folks there. Because I tend to believe that our experience coming out of the 60s was that perhaps our strength is in being connected at one level. But then operating very differently at another level, when I say connected at one level, operating differently, another level, what do I mean? That the right to self determination to me for black vote means that we have got to get together and decide how we will move forward, not in in, you know, a fashion that says other people sit down with us and decide how we'll move forward, we have to decide that. Okay. On the other hand, I don't I think that there shouldn't be a separation that doesn't allow me to dialogue with other groups, you know, whether they're Native American, whether they're Chicano, whether they Latin, whether they're white, etc, to dialogue and say, Okay, where are the connections? How is my movement forward, assisting you and your movement forward, and also coming together on some issues, like, I felt real good when the response to Grenada but 10,000 people to the UN of all people. Okay, so, you know, there are times when all people do need to get together, but I don't feel distressed when I see, you know, a camp like that, you know, I know that that I felt a few years ago, there was a, a white organize a male organizer, that I'd had some a chance to sit down and talk with who had spent some time in in North Carolina, and dealt with the racism in North Carolina and said, you know, it was really easy for me to go into the black community and work with the black community against this thing, racism, the problem became difficult when I as a white person had to go into the white community and get them to understand what the problem is. And I think that, you know, once you're able to reach that level of understanding that my responsibility as a white person would be to go into my community, and make sure that the consciousness I has becomes a consciousness that is shared with those other other groups in that community. Unknown Speaker 43:12 Well, I, of course, agree with style, but I would like to kind of address it as a white person, I think that what we have to understand as white people is how much we gain when we make what we're doing. Not only accessible to all kinds of people, but we make it attractive to women of color and people of color to want to deal with us, you know, more closely in terms of a coalition or working together, and that when we think of, of doing these things as extra work, you know, or as somehow additional to our long side of what is the main thing that we're missing it, you know, because of how much we have to gain, you know, by the broader participation in, in, not in our movement, you know, but in some kind of way of moving all together. I don't even know if I'm being clear about it. But I mean, so much of white women's movement stuff has been, you know, to try to get a black woman by the hand to walk along with us, you know, so that we're somehow validated rather than making, you know, the movement that we're in be, you know, be really a unified movement, in a sense. Now, what I, what I want to say is that I think that when you put something in upstate New York, that you know, in rural upstate New York, that there's only so much that you can do to make it accessible to all kinds of people And then, you know, we can't, you know, go beyond, you know, what's what's reasonable. So rather than dump on ourselves about that, you know, we have to do what we can do there. And I think it was clear that what we can do, again, as white people is work on these issues among ourselves, you know, to a certain extent to make to make accessibility, you know, more important than it has been, and then to make sure that we do other things as well. You know, our movement is not limited to Seneca and, and the things that I've seen women who have come from there go on to do, you know, in other areas where it's possible to work in different kinds of coalition where it's possible to go into other, you know, areas has been very encouraging to me. Unknown Speaker 45:51 I know Andrew is gonna have a talk that there are hundreds of people in upstate New York and hundreds of black men in there and women in there. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 46:01 I think I made myself on first time. I don't think the issue is to try and get lots of women up to be a good candidate together, because that's not going to happen tomorrow. But the issue is, what issues are we going to address and whose leadership are we going to follow? And that I believe the only way to do it, you're right, in order to get out and organize in our own communities about racism, that's our responsibility. But I think that we can only do that by learning from women of color, what are the issues and how to do it? And so I'm really trying, I'm using Seneca as an example of that we keep talking about these things, but that we're not talking to each other earlier, earlier on and organizing processes. And that that's, I think, I'm trying to make an indictment, I guess, without being sure. That it's like it's a long watch. process. And then it just I don't see it happening, but the different moment in different struggles talking to each other early on to really learn from each other. Plus, I totally disagree with you about upstate New York, when you say there's tons of amazing people out there now. I mean, there's big cities, it's like Unknown Speaker 47:21 no, Question, comments. And I don't think I want to be very clear, but I want to try to converse to you. And I think what you say applies promise everyone gives other folks in a way that applies all the fibers. Unfortunately. One of the things that's panelists have said, they have named many of the issues that are baffling positions that are requisitions, that Iran was dealing with issues. And every place I go, I hear that from doing that. So there have been books written in many programs, the issues have been laid out so that you can go through them to find out what the issues are, I hope you're struggling with every day. Okay, so that's one thing. The other thing is that when you plan the activities, at Seneca, you have races and workshops, which I think is appropriate, but you include racism and every other thing that you do, you don't just have separate races of workshops. Racism becomes a part of everything Do you exam, like everything you do, in terms of how is this combat and racism, if it doesn't try to get rid of racism, it's not relevant. So you do have to do everything? You don't only do that, but everybody's taught perfectly between the different kinds of questions. So it's not just racism, but you need to look at all the other questions in the same way. And in every step of all the work you do, you have to say, how does this comment says sexism? How does this conflict? Or how does this combat imperialism? How does come in just all of them if that's what you want to call? It is about to start and it can feel overwhelming. We do. Unknown Speaker 49:01 Something else? Are there any jobs in south and central? How many jobs? Are there? Is this going to be enough money that a black woman can support a family on? Unknown Speaker 49:16 Okay, so you have to look it's a real thing is one of the nice things about how much it cost us to live in this country in spite of the fact we make this moment, okay. The other thing is that there was something to think about weekend where your parents come in. But you can do last weekend has been good. It doesn't have to be bringing black women up there because we find out that black women are doing in other parts of the country and go join us send money to a support group. I could go on and on. Unknown Speaker 50:09 I have to announce that it's one o'clock and lunch has been going. I think I should let people leave. But I would like to announce that in the same room in the afternoon, unfortunately the same time as the plenary, but it will be possible for anybody who's interested in returning to discuss this question further to come back to this room just as it is and to discuss. Unknown Speaker 50:27 It