Unknown Speaker 00:05 I guess I, what I would say is that very interested in this topic in terms of Unknown Speaker 00:13 religion, the emergence of an or profit from the personal, and particularly growing up. Being a feminist has lots of contradictions. So I just want this talk, I also go on to really get used to it. Think we have actually quite a few examples from religious art, almost Balto a section Unknown Speaker 00:50 from Rita Hanson, and I'm here as a representative of an artist news. I used to be the volunteer editor for that paper magazine. But now I take care of my husband staying home and I write articles are much more efficient. But I graduated community seminary. I read all my papers and visual Unknown Speaker 01:10 and I didn't have the church anymore. So I was a feminist in the church and I Unknown Speaker 01:18 ran a handsome mostly young and up to some sort of artists. Well, we're glad that you all decided to join us today. No, you don't know too much about us since so it says in the programs that were painters, muralist and photographer as well. And Robin and I did a collaborative mural last summer on Lori's side in a project called malucia continua. Or struggle continues. And there were about 24 Different murals painted in a cultural park, East Eighth Street between BC. And we decided to do that project, because we had, we knew each other through working in different political art organizations like artists called Art against apartheid. And then ton of cultural represents support that can go out on culture. And we, we realized through seeing each other's work that we had a lot of things in common, although now now that we both run through a slides together of our whole history, which is sort of what we're going to show you, I realized that our experience has been sort of different because I was exposed to art at a very early age through my father who was a painter, and took me every week to the Museum of Modern Art. And so I started, you know, actually painting canvas and oil painting brushes when I was like four or five years old. And Robin told me that she started working when she was in college here barn. So I feel like I sort of started working almost automatically, without thinking I was just sort of emotionally exposed to something. And I think that Robin, probably you correct me if I'm wrong, made sort of a more conscious decision at an at a more mature level to start working isn't always. But what we realized is that we, we have a lot of common influences. Although, you know, we're both going to show you slides of say, for me, or Unknown Speaker 03:38 chotto, Unknown Speaker 03:39 JATO. I think some of the things that appealed to me about Java might not be the same things, as would appeal to Robin. But the end result is that we were influenced by some of the same people have some of the same interests. Now, if we sort of converged at this stage? And we're thinking about or not, we're thinking about we're planning to do another mural in the summer together. Also in the East Village. Did you want to say, Unknown Speaker 04:08 No, I just the only thing I want to say at this point is that we have, Kristen is really going to talk about how a young artist becomes politicized and begins to do political artwork. And I'm instead going to talk about images of women in contemporary art and in my own work, so we're going to kind of break it's going to be two sort of different presentations. And kind of how we came together to work together. Unknown Speaker 04:36 Okay, well, I'm gonna turn off the lights and start with the slides. Unknown Speaker 04:41 I also want to say that when I was here at Barnard, I was very lucky to have Kate Stimson as a teacher. And I was very moved to hear her speak this morning. Catharine Stimpson Oh, Unknown Speaker 05:00 This is this is the first oil painting that I did. I think it was like 12. When I did this, it's not the first oil painting that I did. But it was the first oil painting that I did where I stretched my own canvas and primed it and went through the whole thing before that, as I mentioned to you, my father had been a tremendous influence on me and, and had gone into commercial advertising, but previously had studied painting. Ever since I was a little kid, and he was around making paintings and I was painting with him, but he always, you know, prepared the canvas and just handed me the paints and everything when I got to be about this age. He started, you know, showing me how to do it all myself, and he gave me showed me how to work with palette knives, which is a big thing for him. It seems that soutien was a big influence on him. But I didn't find that out later, until someone told me much later that my work look sort of like su teens work. And then I went back to find out who Soutine was, and I realized how much was like my father's work. This is one of his paintings. It's not really a good example of what I just told you, but it's the only one I can get my hands on. So his name is Robert Reed, you wouldn't know him. He he sort of dropped out of being a painter, when I was very young, and just started painting, like on weekends and not really showing his work or anything because he was trying to raise a family and he went into commercial art. And I always had this fear that that would happen to me. And I went all the way through graduate school being afraid that someday that would happen to me and just totally avoiding studying any advertising or anything like that. And once you know, I now support myself as a graphic artist who work in advertising agencies, but only freelance. He used to take me as I mentioned every week in the Museum of Modern Art. And I sort of grew up looking at these abstract expressionist and colorfilled images and De Kooning was being Jackson Pollock. Rothko was a big favorite of my father's and I really liked him also. But unlike him I was really attracted to to pop art and to Warhol and Lichtenstein and things that had something photographic about them those Ben day dots I was always really attracted to that kind of texture slightly What do you skip? It's a twang. Can I use a pin, knock it might not be able to get it out a little bit too loudly. I was always sort of attracted to Warhol and his serial imagery. And Duchamp is sort of as sort of a trickster aside from liking his his paintings, like the new descending the staircase and little dog, the feet moving and all that I really liked his contraptions in the large glass and a lot of the things that he was doing. And Kandinsky and constructivist were also something that I really like. This is a one Greek was my favorite cubist. I guess what it was is I was really partial to work that had imagery in it. Although I liked abstract work. I really liked work that had imagery. I was never very comfortable working abstractly. Although that was the way you're supposed to work at that time. As a person in this society growing up in the 50s advertising was big. We had you know, newspapers, magazines, ads all over the television. Everywhere we look billboards, he says to be billboards. And I lived in the suburbs, and, of course spent a lot of time driving in a car and was exposed to a lot of this As we probably all have been another billboard Unknown Speaker 10:06 I put this in as just an example of kids watching TV in the kind of space that was on TV wasn't necessarily realistic space, it was very often sort of symbolic space. I was also really influenced a lot by Egyptians and I used to go to the Met and hang out a lot and look at Egyptian art, and tombs really intrigued me. And when I was in high school, I started doing this series, I usually did horses in high school earlier than that. And then I started doing a series of Egyptian frescoes making like combinations and things that I had seen in different places in the museum and making replaster mixed with pigment, which after a few years will start falling off the board, as you can see at the top, which I thought was really realistic. And I did a lot of people and a lot of portraits. This is a self portrait of myself that I did in high school. But around the end of high school, I got my first camera. And what I would do is I would take pictures of people like a series of pictures of people, this guy was my sister's boyfriend, I would take lots of pictures and then try to get them all I couldn't decide him when I try to get them all in time. So and this is also a student drawing of an acorn squash and I always tried to get all the different views in one place. And this is a mobile mobile that I made of my boyfriend at the time, who used to make funny faces at me one day, I painted him up with white makeup and how to make the faces and it took pictures and made that meant I traveled. I traveled a lot. I went to school for about a year and a half in Mexico studying art. And then I traveled in South America for about six months. So I spent about two years in Latin America and learning Spanish and and I studied painting there and drawing and everything. But really most mostly what I did was photography as I was traveling. And this is a picture of a woman that I knew there that I later on painted and what I would do is always make under under paintings that I would scrape off with a palette knife. This is a nightwatchman somewhere that I stayed, which I painted. And this is when I was told by the painting teacher that I had that I was working like Soutine. So I went to find out who Soutine was, and so my father all over Soutine and that's a still life that I did around that time. And I went to art school, and Mass College of Art in Boston and I I found that I had to paint under a teacher there. And the teacher that I was painting under was a man who was very influenced by Harper. And I really didn't like this guy very much. And I didn't like being forced to everybody go out and paint the same landscape or the same still life in studio. And I couldn't wait to get away from him and the other teachers and just be able to paint whatever I wanted to paint. And the other teacher that I was working under until well I think when you're Junior you get your own studio space and you can paint whatever you want. The other painter was an abstract artists who insisted that everyone work abstractly. And what I did learn from the guy that liked Hopper was a lot about painting light. And I would go out and take photographs and paint from the photographs which was a no no, you're supposed to sit on the spot and do it. He thought I was cheating. Just a couple of photographs that I took to paint from this is a very bad slide one of the things that I did from that last photograph to dark. Around the time I started looking at Vermeer, what I what I was interested in about Vermeer was how he used light as a subject. That was the same kind of thing I liked about Hopper. These are just a couple of abstract collages that I did. While I was painting under another teacher there. I was always very uncomfortable about just doing abstract work. I always wanted there to be an image so what I started doing is funny photograph was going out and photographing manhole covers and cracks in the sidewalk and everything and then taking them back to my studio and painting them and everyone thought I was Painting abstractly, but I was actually painting realistically nobody knew it. And I was much happier that way. Because that next year, Unknown Speaker 15:10 yeah, that's, that's one of the paintings of a splotch in the street. Unknown Speaker 15:25 Through at that time, I was throwing like coffee grains in the paint and things to make the texture of the sidewalk I'm sure all those paintings of self destructed by now that was around this time when, when I was given my own studio space at art school and told that I could paint whatever I wanted. And I started by painting from photographs that I took. And I knew that I wanted to do something. But I didn't know what and all this time I had been waiting to do my own thing. And now I had the opportunity to do my own thing. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. And it was a real big dilemma for me because it was very important to have content in my work. But I wasn't really sure what the subject was. And it was about that time that I started reading Marxist criticism art as a suggestion of a a teacher that was not an artist that was a political science teacher that I had there who happened to be a Marxist and he turned me on to Harris's magazine, and to books like this anthology by Maynard Solomon, and I started to read through Maynard Solomon I was reading Lenin and Trotsky in Bucharest and Rosa Luxemburg, now Sartre, Gramsci, Mark who smile row, a whole bunch of different people who were talking from a Marxist perspective. And I started to read other other books as well, like John Berger, art and revolution and the success and failure of Picasso. Aaron Fisher, the necessity of art and art against ideology, are Arnold housers, social history of art, which is a four volume set, and Stanley, Iran with cultural culture and politics and the theory of the avant garde by Renato Poggioli. And all these, all this information that I was getting was coming into a complete clash with everything that was being taught in art school, which was that the predominant ideology, which you probably all know, anyway, in art school, is that art is separate from in higher than life. And art and politics should never be confused or connected. Because if you do that, you'll wind up making propaganda, and propaganda is an art. And it took me a while to simulate this and realize that this is a real manipulation that was happening. And through these books, what I was learning was a whole different perspective. And I found it, excuse me found it really interesting. But it was looking at art from a social historical perspective. And seeing that, you know, the necessity of art, for instance, why? Why is it that every culture known to man all through history has always had art when, in our culture, art was seen as something like art students were people who didn't know what else to study, and they would probably get married afterward, particularly the women and drop it and go on to something where they can make money. They told us that 15% Or was a 15% of the people that graduated from where I went to school went on to be artists, the rest of them became housewives or commercial artists or, or business people or whatever else, but they didn't continue with art. So I started seeing artists a reflection of, of the state of humanity and art history being rooted in in human history. That man feels a need for an objectified affirmation of himself which is only found in art, and that art, religion and science together make up history. And the roots of art, according to these Marxist theories, are in collective the collective need. And in every society previous to the Industrial Revolution, art held really well carved niche, but for instance, in the Stone Age, the witch doctor, the shaman or the cave painter was an integral part of the society as were the crafts In, in feudal society, and later the church became the major patron of art and religious art was inspired by the masses and was something transcendental. And it was only later that art became non started to be made for individual patrons, which led to the gradual reduction of the social character of art. Unknown Speaker 20:19 Until in the romantic, our era, with the birth of the avant garde, there was a separation of art from its social roots. And the art market was developed. And art was produced for people who didn't know the artist and didn't know anything about how the art was made, and sort of produced for an elite with money. And that was really a narrowing of the art audience. So I started looking at things differently. And I went back to looking at Duchamp as someone who I started reading Duchamp, rather than just looking at him, and saw him as an artist who considered the real, the real work or the real art of someone was their life and not necessarily their art. He used to say that he wouldn't go to museums because he wasn't really interested in looking at people's already he was more interested in knowing and artists and looking at their work. And he was a thinker and a writer, and he had a sense of humor, and I was really charmed by him and influenced by him a lot. And look back at Andy Warhol then is as someone who was sort of a character in his his life was really, as Duchamp said, a work of art, maybe even more so than then his paintings. And Einstein was someone who really influenced me the fact that a scientist could be so creative. And I started seeing a real connection between science and art and the importance of that for the future. Robert Smithson was another person that I started looking at a lot, and reading and he's somebody that fully understood the artists responsibility to society. And he had sort of Marxist ideas which confronted the problems and illusions of late capitalism. He was he was very into like, a Marxist perspective. Unknown Speaker 22:28 I got to see stuff. I mean, Unknown Speaker 22:32 I've never been to the Spiral Jetty or anything. Unknown Speaker 22:34 Okay, they got a retrospective of some of his work at the Whitney about Yeah, three or four years ago. Yeah. I've always wanted to speak to something actually seeing Unknown Speaker 22:43 Um, yes. It's huge. It's Unknown Speaker 22:48 strap the strap themselves like that five cars, trucks and flip flops on that way. Unknown Speaker 22:56 Right. Yeah, it's really great Salt Lake and Utah. And it also has moved the earth around the bulldozers and everything. So the inside waters are, it's Unknown Speaker 23:03 no longer in existence just sort of covered with water. Unknown Speaker 23:10 The tides of the lake naturally destroyed like any Chevy. So it has to be rebuilt wouldn't be too Unknown Speaker 23:17 much of a digression to say you don't have to do. Unknown Speaker 23:22 Well, um, basically, what what I was referring to was his thinking and his writing, although specifically how you could take one piece and say how it's Marxist. I don't I think that sort of outside of the spirit of it, it was more his theory really. But he did relate everything that he did was sort of related spiritually and, and thoughtfully with the environment. And all these things were taken into consideration. But his, his rhetoric was, was all about consciousness, reality and dialogue. Those are his three big things. And he he was an artist that was a thinker and educator and an unfolding of social Unknown Speaker 24:04 truths. Unknown Speaker 24:08 And he thought of the artists as a revealer of the inner workings of society. I think yeah, he's, Unknown Speaker 24:14 I think also, at this time when he was working, that he did a lot of pieces also in New Jersey, kind of like in Passaic. And I think he was from New Jersey from Passaic or Piscataway, or somewhere like that. And he did a lot of pieces out there. I mean, in that kind of, like wasteland part in New Jersey, and kind of kind of about, you know, how that part of New Jersey had been destroyed and why they've been destroyed for purposes of industry. Unknown Speaker 24:43 Yeah, that relates to, I was working in a gallery called the John Webber gallery who represented him you know, he had already died and so I was exposed to a lot of documentation of what he did, although I never really, you know, went to any of the sites but He used to say that used to talk about the responsibility the artist is someone who could see what was going on as an observer and a revealer of truths could had had a vantage point that other people didn't have. And it was their responsibility to, to reveal these truths to other people. And that most artists in this society were supposed to be dumb and unconscious and a little bit crazy and how foolish that was and untrue. Another person that I started looking at at that time was Leon Gollum, who the thing that I gleaned from his work, which is now a lot of work about mercenaries, and the hard, ugly, cold, political truth, of the opposition, really, he talked a lot about how the reform of consciousness would never happen through dogma. And that's, that's one of the things that I was always afraid of, with Marxist theorists was that a lot of times it almost seemed very dogmatic and Gollum used to stress and stress and stress, I'm sure he still does that. That art rather than being a distraction should exist in in for the world around it. And that's its strongest use. So I mentioned that I started, I was very impressed with heresies and reading feminist articles about art and politics at around the time that I was really being exposed to, to politics. Earlier, when I traveled in Latin America had read a lot of things by Che Guevara and different South American revolutionaries, and sort of, had been politicized. Then as I traveled through Latin America, I remember going through Nicaragua and spending some time there and talking to a family who had told me all about the oppression and everything there was long before the revolution that was in 72. Lucy's apart was somebody that I was exposed to first through heresies. And what I got from her was that the importance that artwork, integrate art and politics in that activism, not be something that happens in your studio, that you get out and do something and always felt like, yeah, I wanted to do that. But I always sort of continued in my studio being an art student and didn't really become active at that time. Unknown Speaker 27:42 So I started wondering, like how, how I could fit all these things that I was learning mentally, and intellectually into what was actually happening in my work in the studio. And what was really happening at this time, when I had the freedom to do what I what I wanted to do was a lot of repetitive imagery and photography was coming in, I was using my photographs or any photographs that I could find that had sort of symbolic imagery, and a political or social consciousness about it. And those were some things off my studio wall that I took a picture of, this is a postcard that I really responded to Turkeys is a symbol of sort of dumbness on mass. And yeah, this is this is this is both from South Africa. This is from Time magazine, I think around 1975 or something like that. Unknown Speaker 28:43 Yep, that's him. Both are from South Africa. Yes. Yeah. Now this is he was a little bit younger than Unknown Speaker 28:55 me. Yeah. That's an actual photo of Yeah. I think it was, I don't know. You know, I really didn't save any of the details. I just was. It was a picture that, you know, impressed me and I cut it out and stuck it up on my wall. I don't know if they're prisoners or what they are. Yeah, it does work. It's true. Now at that time, I started like trying to trying to get my photographs into my artwork. And I started learning how to do photo etching and this. This is a picture of Anastasio Somoza, taken from the New York Times in 1978, which was during the year previous to the triumph of the revolution. I was sort of following the whole thing hadn't been to Nicaragua. Several years before, I was sort of following this revolution hoping that they could get rid of him because he's terrible. And what I responded to in this photograph really was the dot pattern. I was really intrigued. said mentioned before bed dots and I made a bunch of these prints and then threw paint all over them. And I started using some of the photographs I had taken earlier that I showed you that mobile and making prints but I, no matter what medium I was using, I never wanted to just print them on paper the way most people do, I always had to like change them around all the time. Like this, I wipe the plates differently. You know, I wipe the plate so that each one was almost like a combination between a model print and an etching. The next time I printed it would look completely different. No, I never wanted to make an addition of something I don't know what it was, but I just revolted against that for some reason. This this is a self portrait, I took some photographs of myself and then sort of decompose them in the acid chicken woman here you can see that the figure on on the right side is practically totally decomposed, it almost looks like a statue Unknown Speaker 31:13 these are this is an image I took out of a telephone book. I started working with grids and doing repetitive imagery. This is a photograph of my TV and I drew it and reproduce it with a stencil. Still not having a good grip on how to how to go about you know, reproducing things photographically. This is a photo etching that I reproduce a lot of times and combined with mono printing. Unknown Speaker 31:46 And that's the same thing that's painting over edgings. This, this is that self portrait. And I projected it on a linoleum block and cut it out and then stamped it on the canvas. Unknown Speaker 32:06 And that's the decomposed figure. Always combining lots of different panels. Now this this was, this is why I was mad at maths are all these things were in it was not was not considered art. I was told that the teacher that told me when I made this, this is a study for this, which are four by eight panels that I rolled with the house paint and stencils in four different colors. He told me this was an art it was decoration. It was wallpaper that I was really an abstract artist, and why would why was I messing around with these photographs and the figures and command were ahead of you. The guy said no, not this. Four feet by eight feet, it covered a whole wall in there for him. This is the study that I did for it. And he looked at this and he said now this is interesting. So here I was trying to reproduce images and you start to use spray painting techniques and sort of Trombley sort of skills and always taking images from the newspaper or this is that image of the guard dog again. Now it's when I started photo silk screening. I learned how to do that. And I was combining it with painting by screen printing and then painting over that, oh, incidentally, that's a self portrait of myself as a as a business person. The green jacket is a photograph of myself. So silkscreen. Still, I couldn't just make one print, I always had to combine principle with something else. That's my TV. And this is this is go again, I was using the images that I was using, I sold in this sort of iconography, you know, it's really interested in symbols and go games, somebody who responded to was using a lot of symbols. And the space a lot of times, like the largest thing was the most important and this person is a god obviously in the back because it's bigger than the person who started seeing that same kind of thing on the TV set. You know, wasn't natural normal space that we were always looking at, although I never thought about it before really I started thinking about it after seeing it and that was one of the places where I saw that the most was in medieval and early Renaissance work. sort of flattened space and figures that were stacked one in front of the other and very symbolic. This is from I think the eighth century. This is a dark slide but I just wanted to show you the the shape of the of the thing which started popping up in my lane This is a gentle leader Fabriano stigmatization of St. Francis. I took that saref And I photographed him and use him in this painting, which was the stigmatization of JFK, who is where the panels converge. That's JFK receiving the stigmatic. And his head is a matchbook cover. You know that matchbook cover, had JFKs head on it. And I put a little halo on it. And that's Jackie. I found some paper dolls of her somewhere and he was frozen in time space on that billboard. And she sort of left lived through it and zoomed out in the same book depositories in the background. So detail is blood splattered all over it's more medieval showing bands of bands of color well, as promised the show's lead design work and, and shapes. This is JATO the same thing. That's what I was looking at a lot and how this detail this is a detail of this painting. Just the best a businessman that I had used a lot photographs that I'd taken a businessman when I was in Boston, I was now at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, getting my master's degree in painting. There's the clan's Klansmen again, that figure that I used earlier. And the panels like the religious paintings in the stripe space, she's sort of a symbolic representation of space. And that's a little Klansmen is a all the imagery is is photographically reproduced with silkscreen. By this time, you're more accepting. Unknown Speaker 37:03 Now, at this time, there's a little bit more acceptance but next Paris, in other words, hasn't caught up with you. Unknown Speaker 37:14 I have a teacher at this time that was there told me that I was being much too direct and I was losing my my payments were losing power because they were too direct, and I should be more subtle. And that, you know, like hitting people over the head with the Klu Klux Klan is not the way to, to do it. But you know, I was the abstract background that I had, and modernist painting was coming through. And then I was putting photographic imagery in the space. That Oh, that one was called businessman in the beckoning object. And it was a it's a painting, actually, it's called a cultural police. It's an abstract painting that's being guarded by guard dogs. Now, this is a time when I responded to these teachers who were criticizing me for being too direct. And I took that stencil of this saref that I had used for the stigma stigmatization of JFK. And I've used the negative image and made something abstract out of it and made everybody happy. And I realized that it really wasn't what I wanted to do. And I sneak little things into easy, here's a detail. You had to look really close to see that it was, that was a real thing. Photographs represented to me reality. The reality maybe that Smithson was talking about and consciousness was the imagery and the content I wanted to form and the content to sort of come together. And it was at this stage that I felt that was happening. I was I was talking about I was using space that I saw an advertising on television that I had grown up with that we all grew up with, that related to early Renaissance and medieval space, I can earn iconography in the way they use images. And to draw that connection, I started using the form of triptychs. And we're the triangle would be with God and I put the TV. So this is called TV got. And I went out and photograph that she also from the back put in here, whatever image I needed if I couldn't find I would take using that same way of constructing space and rudimentary perspective, from early Renaissance and symbolic imagery from medieval photographic imagery, which made it of the century those little masks as a little mask as the bottom and those are bad masks of reality. I even thought this one was hitting people too hard. Those are studies and these are these are what would happen when I painted them. These are probably like five feet across. You have you constructed the trip? Yes, I learned to be a carpenter. By force. I didn't really like to do it, but I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it. So I had to learn how to do that. I even made a trough and bent wood to do these triptychs. This is. This is called cancer County. And it's from a series that I call Unknown Speaker 40:26 fear of the suburbs. This is the Meadowlands spent a lot of time commuting between New Jersey and New York and as a little kid in this wasteland. Unknown Speaker 40:42 The shape is an image that was used all the time religious painting. And I was using it now in a new way still meant like a blind follower. These are studies for more triptychs that I started doing smaller this I could hold in my lap and I was doing Unknown Speaker 41:09 I started using gold leaf and and constructing, still constructing a photograph. And that photograph was taken in the 50s. And it was published in Life Magazine first. Before burners. Yeah. It turns out this this represents a television set although I didn't realize it when I made it. Someone later told me that that's a TV screen. And you know, I can't say that it was wrong. TV screen. This is I love that sheep image. This is another sheep I photographed in the background or the suburbs. Also, this series is called massacre the innocence which is a theme from religious painting. It's about it's still about fear of the suburbs. This is a photograph someone walking in the rain that I took made a triptych. It's Three Mile Island I got really sick after about three or four years of doing triptychs all the time I suddenly said to myself one day that's enough triptychs and made the point already and I started to do little constructions that were becoming very sculptural and freestanding. This is a study for one made with collage Xerox elements. And this is also I found that when I was making them a color I turned out not ever doing paintings and so I started making the little drawings again in black and white. And then I felt my desire to paint them as Frank Stella who was a big influence. There's a show of Whitney around this time. Unknown Speaker 42:58 This is from his eccentric polygon series. This is called club did. My sister and several friends of mine that year went to Club Med couldn't stand it Unknown Speaker 43:13 that you can see the Stella real clearly there. That's missiles in those and Levittown in the background. That lesson is freestanding. This This one isn't this is these are feet of Salvadoran soldiers and a cockroach from the New York Times Magazine. I had learned carpentry during the triptychs and I put it to use making these constructions which relate it back I thought to condense gain the constructivist which I was influenced by when I was younger. This is a piece that I did for artists call in January for it. It's a big exhibit where artists artist called against intervention in Central America which is something that that Robin and I both work with now. It's an organization that I think they had a group of exhibitions and performances and like 27 different galleries in New York in January and was having son Sam up simultaneously across the country about 20 different cities. Money was raised to do a publicity campaign against against intervention in Central America and other constructions and mail order legs. Oh, it's backwards, but it's called MX C so much. Unknown Speaker 44:39 And through RS co I get to know Lucy will pardon was further influenced by her. This is her most recent book, The Art for social change. And the thing that I got from Lucy really was I mean, I thought for a long time that I that I could my activism could be in my work from within the studio. And Lucy's influence was to say it No, that's not enough, you have to get out and do other things and connect to the community and the society that you live in in other ways and just sitting by yourself in your studio and reading and painting. So I started to do things like this is from a collaboration that I did with 12 women in the moon made space. I guess this was about two years ago. When I went to Nicaragua, which changed a lot of things for me, I started doing more photo journalism and was exposed firsthand to the society where people really suffering and I it's really an account of our government. And I started to feel very guilty. And and that was the thing that pushed me into really becoming more active. And when I came back from Nicaragua with, with a bunch of photographs, well, when I was there, I had met a dance collective called Don't Cat Dance collective, and had gone and photograph them. They had asked me to come and photograph some of their performances. And when I came back, they asked me if I'd put together a slideshow and go on tour with them. And they were going to do dances that were about Central America to let people know what was going on down there through through culture through dance. And they wanted me to make a slideshow about the situation so that there will be background information for the students that were seeing the dances. That's them performing in a military installation, they're in Nicaragua, this is. So I traveled with them. And one of the things that I really liked about that was I felt like I was really doing something active, I felt like I was informing people about something that I had seen firsthand, but they could only hear about in the media, or had only heard about in the media so far. And the Unknown Speaker 46:57 housewife, and we started painting, she answered like a correspondence course thing and started doing paintings. And I found the so tremendously exciting. It's the use of pattern. It's the use of you know, playful things. And it's not art about art, which is also what interested me about the Duchamp. Unknown Speaker 47:21 Personally, as well, many pet supplies are forced to take Unknown Speaker 47:28 more, I took myself to some places in the world, you know, I don't know, but Unknown Speaker 47:40 I loved this painting when I first saw it, and to me, it's so tremendously dumb and smart at the same time. It's so overt with the, the, you know, the sky and the water, and then what's underneath the water. This is a self portrait that I did around this time. And I was very much you know, the art roll at that point was, you know, David Sali, and Julian Schnabel and big and somehow I never felt that I was ever going to fit into that arena. And I was very concerned about my own identity and what I looked like and how other people were perceiving me as I was sort of perceived as a pretty young girl and I cut my hair in a very strange way and sort of what I looked like at that time. This is a portrait by Frida Kahlo with cropped hair, and I think she was having the same feeling I was, is, if I cut my hair, I'm more serious, I want to change my identity, I want to change my role. And if if you see her, she was very also, she didn't wear the men's dress in real life. She has this backwards I'm sorry, is usually wore a traditional Mexican dress, and was famous for that. And that came sort of out of it a nationalism. But there, she did find the need to show herself Sorry, I'm gonna go backwards to show herself in a sort of more powerful position. And this is her also and um, she did a lot of self portraits and the thing that interests me about this and again, I apologize, it's backwards. So there are two of her. And it seems to me it's like the casual Frida and the the formal Frida and yet it's also the the pain and with the blood and the scissors holding the the vein that's running out of her. It's not really running out of her heart, but in her other hand, she's holding a picture of her husband Diego Rivera. So this is also backwards. But here again, she has to show herself using too she can't show herself with one and it's herself after having been operated on she had all these tremendous back problems and again, it's the pain and that's the brace She's holding, she's wearing the traditional Mexican dress. And she's in the landscape here is getting very expressive and surreal, sort of a night and a day. Here she is after having a miscarriage in a very abstract or abstracted landscape with a bed in an embarrassed space. With these six, six objects, we're representing her pain and her suffering around her she's hemorrhaging on the bed. I find these these pains really painful to look at. And this is a painting called like birth. I just found these paintings totally overwhelming when I saw them, and also that you could make art about women's experience, and specifically about women's experiences. Oh, um, unfortunately, this is what I was seeing. Or this is what the media is telling us about women's experience. And here's this woman with this, you know, cheerful baby, she's striding along. She's reading a magazine. She's eating healthy food. She's under the Brooklyn Bridge. She's happy. She's smiling. You know, it's it's not like that. I'm looking at fashion photographer. Yeah, exactly like it exactly. I'm looking at fashion photography, no one I knew looked like that. This is a friend of mine in front of some drawings from fashion photography, this piece is done on metal, which was very much at that point, I was very concerned about you know, being kind of still feeling ambiguous about not being one of the sort of the big boys. And this was like using metal like painting on metal, it was heavy, and it was big. And it was here's some details of it, where you can see her versus the fashion models. This is done Diana Ross performing. It's very much about woman as a spectacle. And she reminds me in this picture very much as a victory of South race. And she has a very ordinary audience watching her, you know, real women with ages and men. They're bored. Unknown Speaker 52:34 I was also thinking about, you know, what are the kind of what are the role models for little boys and girls, and these are some of the ones who are a little boys. And they're pretty silly. And instead of showing them in a negative, violent way, I think the best response really is laughter. And again, here's a photograph that I used is from a fashion magazine for a piece and there's the grid over that I used. Here's another one. Here's the piece. What I was attempting to do in these pieces was to use to manipulate the vocabulary of those fashion photographs, and to try to point out the narrative behind them and what they were saying. Here are the details. Okay, the woman with the glass. She's obviously not holding at the top there must be some progression. What's the connection between the and here again, it's repeated what is the glass mean? One's a Scotch one a champagne the meaning? Oh, the medium? What is it? Yeah. Oh, it's pencil is basically pencil. There's a little paint where you see color I think might be paint, but basically it's pencil. It's graphite, and illustration board. how large it is, um, this one is 60 inches high, but 40 inches wide. And here again, I was trying to manipulate photographs like they are manipulated in advertising, photographs of women, and then how advertising photos are very set up. So they have a couple of very significant objects that are supposed to tell you a story or a message about that person. And here's another one. So it was two women with coffee sets. And this woman sort of more of the 50s woman with a more ornate coffee set in this woman more than career woman with the you know the expresso set. I wasn't so sure how success So I felt that those pictures were because even though what I was trying to do was question the, the, the form, or the modes of the conventions behind fashion photography. I think what I ended up doing was reinforcing it because there were more pictures of, of women that just had no basis in real experience. And Alice Neil's a painter that I thought was people were all very real. This little girl has a real age. And she's, she's just a very real character. This is unfortunately backwards, I'm sorry, a pregnant woman. And I think it very much shows both kind of discomfort and a little fear and changes. And it's a painting I quite like. Here's another painting of a woman has a baby. Um, she has a re a race and age. I mean, she's a very, very specific person in a time and place, probably a class if you can look at the dress and. And she also painted this painting of John Perrault who again, is a very sort of specific person, you can see the lines in his bathing suit, not very monolithic. Here's a picture of Alice Neil herself, taken by Robert Mapplethorpe. This is her own picture of herself at 80. She's a lot less kind to herself. And in an interview with the TED Castle, she talks about this, and about how the earlier points in her life, she was never very interested in painting herself, because she looked like a pretty young girl. And that's all anyone would see. And now, she was such an old quote unquote rich that no one would ever feel sorry for her and they could see her behind the image. She also pointed out that she painted her cheeks really, really red because she was really exerting herself and she was painting this painting. And it made her red in the face. And this is a coloring book, I'm done by Linda Berry. Unknown Speaker 57:30 It's a lot of drawings of women and some some narratives about growing up and looking at and seeing pictures in Playboy of women and how to deal with images. So you know from pornography and of women are soft porn. And sort of what what they meant to her as a little girl, I just want to read some portions of it because I think it's really wonderful book. I got it it printed matter. The one thing I felt positive from looking at all the naked lady pictures was that I was going to have huge tits, everyone was going to have. The other thing was that I was going to look just like Marlo Thomas. But the seventh grade and Home Ec we had been hearing that our bodies were going through a lot of fascinating changes. Hardly anyone I knew could tell. And everyone was thinking that there was something wrong with them. And this pretty much set the tone of the next six years, everyone thought they were ugly. Everyone thought they were too fat. Everyone. Every one, excuse me. Everyone had one tip different from the other. Our homeroom teacher would terrify us with information like how the dentist could tell when you were on your period. And by taking our bus measurements and writing it down. She told us she was exactly like we were when she was our age. And that made some of us sort of feel like crying Unknown Speaker 59:04 This is a set of cards that I did also want to just point out about doing coloring book very much getting away from kind of high art notions of having to do huge, huge paintings. And to do something that can go out in the world and someone can can color and play with. And so anyway, I did my own cards. And I was also concerned also with this idea of illustrations. These are cards that I did, these are drawings. There's the other cards, so they're a little bigger, but they're they're a lot smaller than you see them here. And I was very much interested in design as being very important and patterning as well as portraiture. And this also gave me a chance to get into doing more specific portraits, which is what I was feeling was so wrong with the other pieces as they weren't individuals. But the thing about the cards it interested me, which I guess Linda buried and really didn't interest her was that it's about hierarchy and power since kings and its Queens. And then the kings have weapons and the queens of flowers, which is right out of what cards really usually have, but I changed it for the jacks. And I sort of racially and sexually integrated though that Steven Biko on the on the road and Rebecca west on the left, so I was using some famous people and some pictures out of the newspaper for my portraits. Um these are two paintings by my boss which on the on the left is St. Catherine. And what I was interested in these was it each st is shown with symbolic attributes, which tell about her martyrdom. And she was supposedly killed by a sword you see her holding a sword, she had a reputation for great learning, you see the book. And then there's the story of the wheel how she was strapped to the wheel and supposed to be broken, but instead it broke. And on the right is Saint Barbara, who is discouraged by her father and the angels turned this whip into into feathers. She's holding a feather. This is a from Piero della Francesca and this is St. Apolonia. And she's holding a tooth. And she was martyred by having your teeth pulled out. Yeah. And the thing that I really also liked about puro was the just the statuesque pneus of the women, and that kind of grandeur. And so I did a portrait of a friend of mine using that. So I took a portrait of my photograph of my friend and I use the body of the PRL and my friends a photographer. So the camera became a symbolic attribute. This is Vermeer, who don't really think of these as being specifically portraits. But it very much interests me because each of the objects in the room is indicative of time and place. It's it's Holland, it's mapmaking has become very important because Holland has become a huge sea, seagoing power. And here, you can see different like patterns from different places. And you also see like objects of work, there's a broom in the front, and objects of instruments. There's also been a class relationship going on here and there's a painting of a boat in the back. And here's his also Vermeer again. That's we're going into the Orient, and there's this oriental cloth on the table. This is a portrait of John Vorster. James posing away as what happened to the Dutch. He has Winnie Mandela looking in the window. It's very much part of his his identity is his opposite. And that's a portrait of excuse me, that's a map an early map, early Dutch map of South Africa behind him and a flower and specific native to South Africa on his table. I took it out of the picture collection in the New York Public Library. And very much I feel that, you know, the whole situation in South Africa is dependent upon making everything look like it's fine to the white community and glossing over with this kind of old culture and the beauty of the flower keeping up appearances. This is, this is a painting in the Met. Sorry, I only have a black and white slide of it. Unknown Speaker 1:04:05 This is Joan of Arc. A role model for many young girls is a painting I loved as a child is a huge painting. I did a portrait of my friend Sandy, you're good as Joan of Arc. Sandy is a nurse and so I included a picture of a nursing class from around the turn of the century. And here again, I'm using patterning on the table and putting the portrait head actually on the figure from an egg painting of Joan of Arc. Um, before I know I mentioned talking about who the role models were for little boys and was trying to figure out who who I had thought of myself over who I thought of as significant when I was a child. This is Judy Garland. She's a Little Orphan Annie who Always had sort of a lot of spunk, and, again, was very interesting because she was sort of adopted by Daddy Warbucks, right in the Depression. And she in this particular one, she goes into the house, and she's always in conflict with Selby, who's kind of upper class Brett. And this is Alice in Wonderland. Oops, who I actually decided that I kind of had related to more than the others, mostly because she was sort of more adventuresome. And at the very end of the first one, she challenges the Queen's verdict. And the Queen says off with your head, she says, Oh, you're nothing but a pack of cards. And I thought that was that that Alice in Wonderland isn't especially feminists tale, but she did show really quite a bit of stuff. So I thought if I did my own self portrait, again, thinking about Alice, with the cards, instead, I used other chess pieces. There's also a whole portion there where she has an adventure on a chess board. And this is I used to paint an early American painting, that's where the dress comes from. And the dress in the chair or kind of a feminine background, and mice sort of struggling with that stereotype kind of bursting out of the dress. And also, it's called it was originally called playing the game. Kind of trying to learn how to manipulate power relationships. Is a portrait, actually not well, Portrait of the Artist is mother by national Corky, which was one of my favorite paintings in college. I just want to sort of point out about the mother how she's Unknown Speaker 1:06:53 pretty immobile, and kind of pinned to the bottom of the of the painting. Is a portrait of my own mother. Sorry, he did draw from a photograph. Yes, that's right. I'm sorry. I want to go back. Unknown Speaker 1:07:09 He did do it from a photograph. That's right. It's a portrait of my own mother. The writing says I would like to present my mother, Diane kissel with the Annie Oakley Award of Honor. When I was sitting out to do my mother's portrait, I asked her who did she think of herself in terms of, and she said, Well, she'd like to be shown as a Western woman, as a pioneer woman. She's actually from Cincinnati, and now lives in California. So it wasn't really, you know, literally the west of sort of more the idea of being a pioneer woman. So I made this metal for her. You can see it with Annie Oakley on it. And again, I wanted to kind of indicate the kind of the conflict between and also that they can coexist of the diagram chromatic thinking of the brain, and kind of a more romantic pattern and flowers, which is actually taken from William Morris. The flower portion is an oil painting, the diagram portion of squash and the drawing of my mother's pencil, as well as the metal Unknown Speaker 1:08:29 this is sort of the image of the woman artist. I'm not going to go into how trivialized we are. Unknown Speaker 1:08:37 But the this is one of those things that just raises the hair on your back. This is the male artist to score big, was actually an artist that I admire very much and considered to be one of the precursors of political art in the 20th century, but here he is the artist with his muse essentially, he's not painting her he's painting a landscape. She's really there to, to watch and admire and to inspire. And then there's the little boy who represents the future. And I was thinking a lot about do women really have muses, instead, I decided to have role models. I took this picture of myself. And I made this my own version with a body builder as my role model. myself instead of 19th century dress painting a very 19th century painting, and a little girl Unknown Speaker 1:09:46 that's the future this is a photograph by surgery, and to me, it's again it's about the artist. It's Unknown Speaker 1:10:06 the artist is on the left is a participant in kind of the order of the social order lined up with the women in her place and on the right. Not really lined up with the men hopefully but an observer watching the scene and and making an image of it. Here's another piece of jewelry very much. I think that this work is about domesticity encroached upon by politics and issues, and I can't help but think of the Third World products on the table. The bananas and the coffee and the parrot, the volcano, the exotic kind of third world and moving into sort of violence and guns. And also how do we find out about these things. I mean, it's the radio, it's the newspaper. And so this is another these are Ciba Chromes. This is either in the bottom left it says cleanup begins at Beirut settlements. And again, it's very much domesticity, it's cleaning items on the top, and an image of cleaning on the bottom of broken cup. And this image of a root and a very sort of bucolic landscape on the top. I'm sorry, the broken cup. Yeah, these pieces definitely take a while to to see. Um, I'm very much how, you know Beirut comes into our consciousness in the newspaper. And, you know, how do we make the connection between our daily life in Beirut and, and violence. And so this is another piece actually sort of about homelessness, it's a bed is an ideal scene of sort of a suburban home in the background, and abandoned tenements projected onto the bed. There's the artist, again as making the image and sort of a more institutional image on the bottom Unknown Speaker 1:12:34 I'll use the word. They're super Chrome's. They're about 11 by 14. So this is quite large, larger than the work again, here's a woman from a newspaper, clipping naked woman between two men. And again, the domestic setting the light, the lamp on the top of the bottom, on the bottom, it's actually a photograph of the mud victims in Colombia. It looks like some kind of field maybe sugarcane, something who was no these are by an artist named Sarah jury. So photographs, but these this work is very related to my own work, in terms of using photographs and color images of women. So here's the second one of these. Again, the same image on the bottom, the naked woman between the two men, the light, the image of domesticity, the curtain being opened to reveal the bucolic landscape on top to contrast with the horror of the Columbia years again. And there's the artist, as the observer. And very much one of the things that she was thinking about was this tradition of showing women showing naked women and dressed men. Not that many began this but he's a certainly a very famous example of this. So paint a painting that I did. After coming back from Central America it's basically about it's called North American fantasy. And it's to me it's a synthesis of what we think of. When we think of Latin America, we think of the banana republic, we think of military generals. This is a portrait of Sara Maria cruise Central American life. This is a woman I actually met who cuts hair in Nicaragua. And on the top, on the ledge or our objects, which I think you sort of described her life. I think, despite the totalitarian dungeon rhetoric, Roman Catholicism remains very, very strong. And she's a hair cutter and she has personal you know, care, things. That one of the other things, though is that those objects are very, very hard to come by in Nicaragua. And they're very, very precious, almost as precious as the pictures of the Virgin Mary. And this is a picture of the Virgin Mary, from actually from Ecuador. But there's a certain style of the Virgin Mary in Latin America, the robes have certain patterns and stuff. But I also want to make another point about this is that while this is a picture of the Virgin Mary and relates the doctrines of the church and ideas about women and all this other stuff, it's also about Mary is standing on a crescent. And Mary began to stand on crescents after the Western Europeans overturn the Turks. The symbol of the Turkish Empire, was the crescent. This is also an image of the Catholic Church kind of prevailing over over the Muslims or Islam. Also, when I came back from Nicaragua, as Kristen, I felt like I needed to do something. And with two other women, we made these postcards. And one of the things we wanted to do was show some of the people we saw, you know, something that that people to change that image of kind of young men with guns and the nasty Sandinistas. And so we we made these postcards. And we wrote a message on the back of 600 handwriting that says Hi, went to the market this morning. It was packed with Saturday, sharp shoppers, had my nails done by a beautician named Sarah Maria in pm dropped to the local high school in that music teacher. He was so proud of his collection of instruments. One of the students showed me her biology notebook full of drawings of amoebas wish you could see this country too. There's my name Robin Michaels. We sent out 600 of them to a small town Ellenville New York. And essentially what we did was we created a media event for them they didn't know what the hell was happening. And we got their addresses, we got them out of the phonebook Unknown Speaker 1:17:35 and because there were about 4000 people in this town 600 really made an impact and somebody in new got one if you looked there and essentially the bike catching the attention the media was trying to figure out what's going on and what's got these cars What the hell are they they call this an interviewed us and that way we were able to talk about what we had seen and sort of go in more into depth and get press writer right well this some of them obviously under 600 We got back maybe 20 that people had moved and stuff like that so piece by May, Stevens should it's called ordinary extraordinary. It's about Rosa Luxemburg and the artists mother Alice Stevens, the top images are Rosa Luxemburg on the right is her head as when she was killed and the bottom images are of the artist mother the name of this piece ordinary extraordinary comes from from Lenin who said that revolution is when the extraordinary becomes ordinary. And one of the functions I think one of the things that certain women artists have really wanted to do is document you know women and activists and and show their lives and not let them get lost. And make sure that that we keep their histories and again it's not it becomes not enough to just show one picture. It has to have the writing with it. In fact two different writings going on at one time and several pictures. This is from a book she did about this. This is the artist mother again. Unknown Speaker 1:19:32 Yeah Unknown Speaker 1:19:36 it's called ordinary extraordinary. Right To find out, yeah, okay, this is my Stephens again, this is Lucy Parsons. Unknown Speaker 1:20:14 And it says, We are the slaves of slaves. We are, I think more ruthlessly exploited than then just by an artist who's not usually considered political or the flag, and it's a portrait of Sojourner Truth. And again, I feel it's that tendency to feel like we have to document and we have to show we have to portray. These are a couple of slides by a woman named Sue Williamson, a South African who was in New York a few weeks ago, and I love to work so much, I grab some slides from her. I wish I could tell you more about who this woman is. But basically, um, her her she went through something similar to what we went through of just being an unable to sort of stay in the studio, while all this crisis is going on in South Africa, and did a whole series about black women activists. The center portion is a I think it's a photo etching. And then it's a silk screen around it. And the frame is taken from frames that she saw in the townships, these very, very beautiful frames that yeah, like folk are beautiful frames that people make for their portraits of themselves and their family. Unknown Speaker 1:21:30 I have one other example. So unfortunately, I don't have the name of this, this woman Unknown Speaker 1:21:40 actually amazed at how much closer the imagery is. Yeah, that's why exactly. I mean, it's somewhere in between, with the portraiture and the the photo, little fingers, the little fingers repeating outside of the frame. Yeah, exactly. The detritus. Exactly. I mean, I just think, I just think they're really beautiful. So this is a shot from a book that suco did about South Africa, called How to commit suicide. And one of the things I want to talk about talking about Sukkot is I very much have stayed away from showing women as victims. And I think Sukkot kind of alternates between showing very strong woman is the woman down on the bottom on the right, and on the top is a line drawing of a woman's being beaten. It's pretty horrifying. The story that goes with this is this woman, this black woman was tied to a pole. And to block off to black soldiers were ordered to rape her and they refused. And their officer threatened them and they they complied. But again, in a certain way, maybe it's better not to be silent about these things, maybe it is better to show and expose them. I wish I could have found a better example of Sukkot during the strong woman. But there is a woman on the right, you can see in solidarity with the strike. This is a piece she did was in a small press. And I can't sort of emphasize enough kind of small press magazines, artists books as a way of kind of getting images out of the studio into people's hands. This is called World War Three is the name of the magazine. It's an article about bombings of abortion clinics. And here she's making the people who bombed the clinics terrorists and showing kind of the full gravity and horror of what they're doing. It's a little hard to read the image. I know the man is urinating on a woman. She's crashed there on the ground and sort of fetal position. This is a piece that I did that went with the same article. And again, I really stay away from showing ruinous victims I just said what I tried to do instead was show what was behind the rhetoric of these three men, Ronald Reagan, Jerry Falwell and the Pope. What the alternative that they're presenting really is. Again, this is Eleanor bumpers. And when she was killed, he was about a year and a half ago. She was really portrayed, certainly in a lot of left press is a real victim is his grandmother who gets killed by this cop. And I felt that that was a little I'm sort of hiding the real issues. Because one of the things that I found kind of interesting about it was that she did fight back. Maybe she was crazy. But I think that there is something about this culture that makes marginal people really crazy, because they're not listened to I can't forget the man who drove up to the Washington Monument and threatened blow it up a couple of years ago. And they ended up shooting him in the head. And I think that's such a marksman, I'm surprised that they can't shoot the tires of his van or whatever, but they shot him instead. And this is kind of what I feel like the he must have been driven to be completely crazy. He was an activist, like an anti war activist. And we just shouted that in the dark. You're shouting at deaf ears for so long, that I think it just makes you nuts. And Eleanor bonkers was certainly not an activist. But I think kind of being poor. And suffering like can make you crazy, too. But in this picture, I wanted to show her her kind of strength and her resistance, instead of showing the cop as being her enemy. It's really not it's really been real estate interests. We've made housing so tight, and it would have evicted 64 year old woman. Unknown Speaker 1:26:09 Bacon working from home shouting in the house. Thanks so much for specific pens that have been around. Unknown Speaker 1:26:22 That's kind of what I'm trying to do. This is a piece again, another piece for kind of a small publication called The Art of the demonstration. The piece itself was called the madres example. And I feel I'm very moved by the example of women in Latin America, who in under conditions that are so much, I mean, under conditions of patriarchy that are so much more oppressive than here. I mean, the machismo was really, really disturbing, organizing. It's really very ordinary women are pushed to do these things, who are pushed to, you know, form these these committees and to demonstrate when their relatives disappear. And they're very heroic, I think this is a picture that shows them the source material for this piece, you get an idea of what all the things are that go into these. This is a picture of a Salvadoran woman. And these are farmers from South Dakota. This is a photograph that I took the two portraits of the two women and Obama was trying to show sort of youth and age and solidarity. It's a picture by Louise Bourgeois, three drawings, house woman. And I think the debate is really whether to show women is how they feel how they really are, where the show them as they might be in the future. Did this piece for International Women's Day, last year. And I was criticized at the time for not doing not showing women doing non traditional labor. But the real point of the piece, it's Eleanor Roosevelt in the center was to show sort of solidarity with third world women. And instead of increasingly devaluing women's work and getting all women to do men's work, I think we need to change what we value as a woman on the left from Guatemala and a woman from South Africa on the right. This is three women working again, three very different woman when doing were very repetitive labor, as many women do in sweatshops all over New York, not just in third world countries. There's a piece about Mary Farrell was a woman in Virginia, who is suing the Navy for age discrimination. She was asked to wear this this uniform. And she feels that she was instead she was laid off in order so that they could hire a woman with more attractive legs. The architecture in this piece is really taken from Johto and the kind of strange curtains he's always hanging in the back of things. And the woman has repeated three times kind of growing in size and anger until she's larger than the confining box of the of the changing room until she can decide to sue the Navy, not let them get away with this. This is an Erica Rothenberg piece, which I think sort of addresses the same issue for she fancifully changes at and I'll just I'll just read it, their top has managed to masturbate to our ads. Then it says We apologize for using sex to sell our products. And We solemnly promise no more sexy photos, no more photos at all, just good clean underwear ads, the kind that no one will get excited over. Now you can say I fought pornography in my Maidenform bra. And this is certainly one of the currents, I think, between behind a lot of art by women is to how do you deal with the seductive image, I mean, one of the ways is, is just to get rid of it. Okay, and again, here's some more. Here's the Johto directly lifting architecture out of it, there's the bar on the bottom, which we'll see in the next piece, by the gate or whatever little wall. This piece is called assessing the effects. And again, it shows the diversity of women trying to kind of figure out and the kind of blare of propaganda, all from sort of the same patriarchal figure speaking from a podium skyscraper. It's actually Warren Anderson. And it's a photo from a photo of him Unknown Speaker 1:31:19 saying how ever since both Paul he's really felt terrible, has been able to go out to eat and, you know, it's really he's really suffering. Unknown Speaker 1:31:29 Can you say, I don't feel much sympathy with that kind of stuff, or so some work by Barbara Kruger who I think is doing some of the most interesting, angriest Unknown Speaker 1:31:43 art about the images of women. She doesn't compose these images, or she finds them and she finds the words and she puts them together in order to reveal some of the things that are behind pictures. And here again, it's a it's a woman, it's an idealization of a woman, it's an it's an art object of a woman. So the woman is not really being perceived in the EU as is masculine, it's addressing a masculine Unknown Speaker 1:32:15 object. And we are being made spectacles of that how women's pictures are used. And when we become something to be looked at. Unknown Speaker 1:32:30 On your Immaculate Conception, cleaning yourself up and trying to make yourself fit into the Immaculate Conception. We are circumstantial evidence. In other words, we're not something you see directly. Unknown Speaker 1:32:50 There's something you kind of guessed that keep us at a distance. Clearly a woman down looking down the long hallway we have received orders not to move says I will not become what I mean to you. Unknown Speaker 1:33:22 And yet the kind of struggle of it is pretty apparent and she's kind of changing from from a human into an animal into a non human. We won't play nature to your culture. Again, the binary opposition set up between men and women who kind of her non compliance but in her most recent pieces. It's a picture of a golf course and says we are not your elaborate holes.