Unknown Speaker  00:03
Yeah, I think that's interesting. In terms of heavy metal books, I mean, the boys did a really nice last 100 races working class character of heavy metal that also appeals to male male attraction to male in the adolescent stage. And what that's all about. Just one little comment, but as someone who watches on TV or watching videos because a lot fan, I think it's also interesting to note, the commercialization of MTV and what's been said by many, many artists, about how this has been completely ripped off from them in terms of any artistic outlets. It's, it's extremely sad in a way to realize how walk has totally been, you know, commercialized perhaps at least seven days on its own. You can't you can't imagine a GarageBand making it possible. No,

Unknown Speaker  00:57
absolutely no, I my whole first chapter I deal with that, that is the the most the smoothing out of all the originally really oppositional protests, and tremendously strong rock booms in the 60s and 70s. It's just it's very sad, and this commercialization. And of course, none of none of the best songs by any of the people who get on there can ever be shown that always the weakest and also the highly selected to come home, can you wait and have had a lot of problems in the heavy metal are only there in this very commercialized mode? So it's highly watered down image of what's actually really going on? There is much more recent stuff going on? And then you 68 Yes, no, I did not see that.

Unknown Speaker  01:42
There's reasons why you can't see it. I read this in the voice, where it was becoming very popular and MTV sort of putting pressures on cable operators that it you see state, no use of state is only interested in a quiet Christian Broadcasting Corporation, which was present concerning what gets on there. But what happens is it was being picked up by cable operators around the country. And if you want to see interesting videos, watch, he succeeded long before he went to NBC. But it's disappearing from these people franchises due to pressure from MTV, because so there he goes,

Unknown Speaker  02:16
Yeah, well, this doctor York told me even that hot tracks on ABC couldn't last very long because of the sponsor problem. And then if there's pressure in addition for them to to, to put it down. Yeah, that's yeah. I understand. I'm

Unknown Speaker  02:32
really surprised by the statute, signifying practices. penetrative.

Unknown Speaker  02:40
Oh, amazing. Yeah, there's so much crossover, the unbelievable you know about the soundtrack. And John was charged I just saw the Mad Max soundtrack video, but also was not that the lighting? No, there's an amazing crossover. And also there's the whole via television series that Miami buys. With why and in this is tremendously circular, both ads, rock videos, movies and rock videos, regular TV dramas and rock videos. It's almost as if this video is sort of splurging out and developing and taking taking over

Unknown Speaker  03:20
there in Los Angeles wasn't a movie it is a cover Yes,

Unknown Speaker  03:33
yeah. Double double check. But I have been trying to see if the traditional movie movie is preparing to do other times of course you do know about directors. If you talk about directors,

Unknown Speaker  03:55
they are very aware that they are honing their film skills, helping to actually make feature films so that's one way film and videos. Then other found that some victims recognize the karma for Christians being and John sales have done sales before and we did one are coming into video because they feel that they are they are aware that the four minute context of the video will give them much more cinematic freedom than still any Hollywood film with it and they can play with it for much more. So there's an enormous sort of interplay between with people moving from commercials with the videos and bathroom videos into commercial sublet. The similarity with no two actually has an imperial today's figures who are occupying slots, but it's, I mean, the whole phenomenon as I began to get my talk talking about high tech in that imaginary that's emerged from the results but 60s in the high tech and what concerns me about the political ration and about NPD is that everything is on everything is the act of self presentation theatricality to the surface as it were sort of visual this visual senses becoming the privilege sense paramount and while I'm on board I wasn't there is something that is concerning about concern about this is somebody at lunch was talking about having been brought up in television and going into the classroom when you've got to watch this morning boring image image in speech you know for an hour without a graphic description you're so used to everything moving you tend to be particularly has these incredible details which are something liberating and again this is competent to the visual aspect to me I think if you think of the rest of television and that's why also I got interested in which are deadly boring faces but even so now it shows like, like music class montage videos, that there is a one celebratory aspect to the increase montage and proliferation of images but there was also a kind of point where it takes over and I wonder what that long as it's already going anywhere. It's as I say, my book is not a dueling book about him at all but I'm very think that he has the potential in both directions progressive

Unknown Speaker  06:53
reactionary elements that

Unknown Speaker  06:54
the whole is it's all happening at once within this one form and I don't know what the future is quite interesting. People wonder The first one is bad very quick nobody bought stuck together beginning but now it looks as if it's just cases that Oh yes. Oh, I know that was very interesting. One more then what am I doing what time do people have to go wait I might try to find still hung up on it yeah, I was just thinking else me we got somewhere else good idea

Unknown Speaker  08:01
is that positive? Or are you waiting to win? Well, I think that's all part of this. blurring of boundaries and modernism is now becoming very freely used. This is something we're very much calling on as we move into post modernism. Most of this stuff sounds like related to our category.

Unknown Speaker  08:42
Which is actually in terms of by the way in terms of you know, coming out it seems to me that the Romantics are winning although there's legions come back from the heavy metal heavy metal was very out coming in and now it's getting about equal and I'm interested in the increase of hazardous or most agencies that kiss actually got on to this new pencil you're actually going on the historic press on channel three, which is a channel I look at a lot of a lot of videos sell programs with live videos nearly all day on Fit second every day for several hours and I thought well, it couldn't be this I'm probably not going to see on a little bit yes, it was on MTV. So on that one I thought was showing a certain enough on the sexual sexual. Did you see Johnny who guys had so good, that was playing for a long time I thought that was interesting in in saving, sort of to be innocent about state or math or blended in excited about it isn't interesting. It was about a bike gang and they were bike down and they go into their bike bar and girls are on the table and they're changing. You know? Pulling out pornographic kind of dress as the word of God, whatever, whatever outfit and for kittens This is really sort of postmodern because I thought it's really offensive and it's so offensive, but it was so I don't know, I'm just so bland about what he's doing strange manner that it was, but that he was really playing with that imagery. And again, I wonder that MTV doesn't quite expecting that mind of what it was actually show. You know that that's precisely the sort of video that parents into the internet of course, I, you know, I don't believe in censorship anymore. And obviously, I wouldn't want it and such right wing organization to be legislated on to me that they mean, those are the kinds of things they've managed to keep me the biggest star of your video I've been in play into your marketplace.

Unknown Speaker  11:21
Very, very popular. Really?

Unknown Speaker  11:29
Yeah, really? Yes. In a way. You know, I mean, it's complicated.

Unknown Speaker  11:40
When when when we

Unknown Speaker  11:41
were against censorship, but I mean, we're not in favor of, yeah, you know, we should recognize that

Unknown Speaker  11:46
there is a lot. I mean, we may not agree with people who are perceived. But we could absolutely

Unknown Speaker  11:59
do that there's a connection you had talked earlier about, socially conscious, the overtly socially conscious videos being much more wed to a narrative structure. And the ones more female rather than, than feminist being more wed to a kind of postmodern this prestige? Yeah. I mean, do you think that it has to be that way, that, that a narrative or realist, or at least a mildly realist form, can be can be more than kind of feel good, socially conscious can be can kind of subvert? Deeper, you know,

Unknown Speaker  12:40
a million dollar? We have been debating it in film studies for a long way. Well, yes. I mean, in a way, you know, my book, excited mediate yard, but I'm not happy with how I did that. And right now, we were talking about audience at lunch, too. I mean, right now, I'm sort of thinking in a certain sense that realism certainly can do certain things that that get certain audiences, that sort of stuff. I guess there is just simply limitation of this problem of realist strategies, you know, ending up making hierarchical hierarchies of discourses, and that somehow the patriarchal discourse is very difficult. Because it seems what's natural, I mean, this is the whole sort of problem about sobriety when you begin to think of subverting established modes of being you kind of you immediately have to image other other other sorts of things you can do just because it's a good example is I always think is so there really is totally playing the Hollywood to it. So it feels a signifies the opposite content and Eisenstein in many ways for all the talk about formulas like it basically is is doing that a lot of the time he is simply sort of reversing simplifies the process of making them anyway so it is a very it's just a very tricky issue I mean, I guess it's only to be honest if I practice you know if your videos I love the best actual not logical but some of the talking heads we're going to discuss the family one in my book because it's actually credible do yes, burn down the house but the house is the home. These techniques are incredible, the sort of the similar story on the side of the house and amazing kinds of cutting so

Unknown Speaker  14:49
the talking heads are rare in their ability to be accessible and to subvert things in a postmodern this way. Videos and their various I just have a lot of

Unknown Speaker  15:09
sci fi is realism is very much seen out of the two structures. Why can't we have a similar case in the future? Which is just as much of a disruption somewhere else? The reality

Unknown Speaker  15:37
is, well, so you had what you're talking about, for instance, a different group, I mean, say, an unprivileged group in society kind of present its reality. Well, that is what documentary realism has done. Right? It has done that. And that's why I'm saying I think that can do certain things is always a question of how far it really adds up challenging your basic ways of looking at that it can give you a message that there's a difference between visual and semantic levels or something, it can give you a good message. But the question is, how far does it need to change? How you see, and you know, long lasting way? Where's the argument about our God techniques is, oh, there are other kinds of techniques like Brechin customization techniques, and those things that make you think about what you're seeing, distancing from living their various ways of separating, but I mean, I just don't know the answer, I guess, I guess, which really impresses or changes people more, you have to do sort of social science kind of apparently studies, you know, in terms of mental machinery, but I mean, I'm kidding, I was a filmmaker, I would try to juggle all against problems versus what I think I could say to him to some kind of balance. Where the work was it was successful. He wasn't talking about MTV, she is talking about what is very, you're right, and he is accessible, but it's very avant garde, there is a way of doing sort of producing texts with kind of candle making challenge are actually little structures of looking and also have an ideology messages accessible to facilities

Unknown Speaker  17:47
that is on TV tends to disproportionately not videos, they have a very clear message.

Unknown Speaker  18:00
It goes on holiday. Yes, yes. I tried to I only saw once. Once I look for it again. And again, because I didn't I didn't catch it or all of it never came up again. No, absolutely. There was also a Vietnam amazing Vietnam. video that shows that I think so let's try something that might have been in the show is incredible for the GMAT, but I couldn't I couldn't get it. I couldn't find it. So So your answer is yes, they did. Now some cities slightly different is that is called we didn't even get to that the part of the fashionable social and not fashionable politics. Now that night, that time it was a very positive much more, of course, in the USA, Africa, or anything, but there is a whole question about Live Aid events and these political events and I'm all for that but do get very tied up in commercial sales silly. But ya know that the proper statements on Come on? Come on, because they have some record company.

Unknown Speaker  19:09
What are the kinds of videos that they don't show?

Unknown Speaker  19:12
Well? Well, they well black versus black artists you really got they don't be Oxford they actually have a culture. Now where they he said absolutely that only so many can be shown. They will send speech sending his videos that they've got their quote for the month are enough famous ones like Prince and Jackson certain kinds of sexual, I don't quite sure what they are and it is very hard to talk to them about your crystal it's hard to get in but that's nothing evidently they only will say doesn't quite fit the MTV image or it's not you want to concretize it so it's very hard to concretize it. Since a lot of sex as I was just saying gets on that one night thing wouldn't get any normal sense. to a prudishness yes it's some kind of thing so it's it's there is some idea of what will reach that honey 8 million basically white American teenagers who watch this thing got to think I'm gonna offend somebody with a call and you call America out there somewhere Omaha somewhere far out and some and they also talk about upsetting the parents they did leave this but they don't want to have any venue that has a parent walks in the room and sees it and they will be upset so there's the thinking of the parents who will then stop the channel if you have only some very narrow line very narrow line is would be really interesting to get of course one doesn't know what censored except by uses th and channel three programs Absolutely yeah so it's hard to be very well I'm not sure it could end there I'm just gonna try to be on a Wednesday with a new video which wouldn't be great but nationally would be great to have a company that company by video day I have never really got into