Unknown Speaker 00:05 Don't be shy. I just wanted to ask about station was getting certified or just to begin? Unknown Speaker 00:30 Yeah, they weren't organized. Actually, the the unionization of government has been very top down. Because the industry has basically two or three layers, the manufacturers, Liz Claiborne, or these manufacturers that make the designs, but then the garments are not sewn at that by the manufacturers, they are these contractors, which are these little shots in China trying to say, Okay, I will steal 10,000 pieces of this particular design group, and they bid against each other for Okay, I'll sell it for $2 apiece, and then somebody else says also for $1 apiece. So what happens is it the the union when I guess when it originally organized, organized was manufacturers at that level, which was not organized from the ground up, they didn't organize the workers and the workers signed cards and voted for the Union. They didn't organize it that way. So what happened is that in New York City, many of the manufacturers, the large garment producers were became signers of contracts with the union, and therefore anybody who got garments from them, had to also participate in paying into the unions, funds and hire workers for union workers. That today, a lot of that has changed. And I think it's largely been partly a thing of a lot of the shots have gone away abroad. And there have been new companies that are broken up in in states that did not sign contracts with the Union refused. And therefore, the contractors who take garments for those corporations, they don't have to hire union workers, and they don't have to pay for the union benefits. So generally, the way the union has looked at it, is that okay, in Chinatown, before 99% Of all the garment workers were members of the Union. And so even if they sold in a shop, where the owner was getting garments for the non union manufacturer, that contractors still had, if he hired union people to sell the garments, he had to pay for some of the union benefits. But nowadays, what's happening is that a lot of these contractors are opening and they're saying, we are a non union shop, so understood that anyone who comes to work with us forfeits all of their rights as a union member. And basically, we're not going to pay for a union benefits. And you just have to work forever, for whatever we're going to pay you. Unknown Speaker 02:58 The union has tried to organize the workers in those shops, especially if the employer happens to hire people who are members of the Union. My colleague strikes and, you know, whatever. But and it's been, I would say it's been fairly effective, but it's not 100% effective. And so there's kind of busy erosion going on, because what has happened in some cases is that and in Chinatown, this is very common that the garment industry is very fly by night, like they'll open to sell these these 10,000 garments. And then when that's finished, they can just close change their corporation name, and reopen it just play this kind of cat and mouse game. Until at some point, both the workers that they're hiring and the union, I guess, at certain point just cannot afford to chase them all over the place. The union has tried to begin to organize some of the non the larger non union manufacturers. And recently there was a fairly long and rough drive against one of the manufacturers that didn't succeed. But what had happened is that when you organize a manufacturer, you have to find out where he's sending His garments out to. So we were able to basically close down the shop that he sent them to in Chinatown, but then he went, he sent them out of Queens. And so then we had to send picketers out there to pick at that place, and then you send them to Jersey. So um, after a certain point, it just became very tiresome, and we were not able to chase it down to the end and force him to sign the contract. That's a little sideline on what it takes to organize these days. I mean, the other thing is, under under Reagan, the National Labor Relations Board and the act and you know, all the labor laws are now tilted towards management. And it's very rare that you can fight these things out on the legal front very successfully. At best. It takes like years and years and there may be a win at the end of years but you won't get that place organized. I mean, the end maybe the workers will get some monetary compensation for having gotten gone on strike and lost their jobs. But it's it's very rough and I and these are some of the questions I know the lay Every movement as a whole is grappling with both the fact that the labor movement itself has some very entrenched leadership that doesn't really want to change to meet the new times. And then also, given these attacks from the legal government policy, it's been very important. So the Chinese community because of the history of having been in the Union for a long time, and wanting to have those rights, and since the men don't have any BlueCross, BlueShield, or any benefits, a lot of that falls on the women workers and they are flocking to join the union, like our local is not losing membership, the way other unions Unknown Speaker 05:38 my experiences with. Running Unknown Speaker 05:46 ECFC were working. class interests are very different. The struggles of Asian American middle class women are different from civilization, when working with and this has sort of been been a primary retention were well meaning super educated Asian Americans go into community want to reorganize the community not knowing that what looks like oppression has a level of liberation, that may was trying to say that this work for them, although it may was it worked for that totally ship mission, you know, and you should do this, that whatnot, is that that is liberating. Since the alternative is non SSA, the entrepreneur where there's no protection whatsoever. As for black workers, the post office was a critical job area, because it meant a pension, Blue Cross, a steady employment relatively good, you know, typically outside working conditions. So what looks like an oppressive and there is an oppressive element to it yet at the same time, it is it's also social arena for women, they're not locked in the house, they go, they talk with their friends, and it has that level of community and spaces to have some more, you know, they're really at a point of organizing. So it has that foundation at the same time, in the midst of all that. Unknown Speaker 07:08 But it's hard. I mean, I know for social workers or for any other sector that I used to work for the restaurant union. And that's a totally non organized sector in the Chinese community. And when you don't have a history organizing especially, it's really, really hard to start to break the break ground. Unknown Speaker 07:30 Specifically, to be able to who was handling it was because we were fighting. Well, that's my situation. Unknown Speaker 07:46 I'd love to hear something from some of the women. I mean, Jean, you have a women's group your work on issues about YouTube. Do you study the history of Asian? Women? Basically, what brought us together? Unknown Speaker 08:07 It was more like we had no really, it was really an idea to collaborate. And we're just talking section talking sessions among each other just for an hour every other week about being able to limit the relation for religious accommodation Unknown Speaker 08:33 within the context of the developed Unknown Speaker 08:37 world right now, what are we talking about? Unknown Speaker 08:45 What is your major worry? Is it is it personal life? Is it professional life? What's your major worry? Unknown Speaker 08:53 Yeah. When you first started, well, of course, we are a feminist, because the Asian Women's coalition were lots of input for each of our members. There were so many who had a very individual meaning. You know, they went from very liberal to very conservative, and it caused a lot of problems because there were conflicts because of meanings. And so we concentrate on defining what Unknown Speaker 09:31 to do. Give us somebody What do you mean as a liberal, conservative person? Unknown Speaker 09:38 Well, the liberal is very broad. And the conservative, yes, we believe that women have equal rights in the workshop and they weren't because of cultural upbringing. It's you're very hesitant to voice and I I guess the subjects of lesbianism you will feel comfortable talking about. So like, decides what to discuss. Unknown Speaker 10:14 But I will biggest project this semester was just trying to put, we're putting together a magazine called dive dialogue about Asian woman. It's a hell of a job, Unknown Speaker 10:35 trying to Unknown Speaker 10:38 piece together. I mean things like we didn't even know what typesetting amazing issues. We just had this sort of abstract idea of what does magazine, really the reality of Unknown Speaker 10:50 sustaining one issue magazines are quite. You might talk to relay later or Asian students still reticent in the classroom? Are they still sitting on their hands? Do you see? By that? Unknown Speaker 11:14 I would like to help does the change that you know, something sat last 20 years, I mean, people still hold back about speaking in class. Unknown Speaker 11:27 What can I say? Well, in the classes that I'm right, I'm one of three other animals and only two of us are up to 66%. Unknown Speaker 11:50 But does that that's a hot that's an issue dear to your heart. So you're more animated. Right? I say that because there's a whole creeping thing in the school system. Because the Asian community is fastest growing community and nation. And also, they're really not noticing that on East Coast for the first time elections through the entire system. And I do a lot of speaking often, before school teacher groups, and the thing that I hear often is over, we're very pleased about the the increase in number of Asian students because now we're gonna have these nice little classrooms that we can manage, they come in discipline that are orderly, and so on and so forth. And the again, stereotype of the dark or passive, serious, but not questioning, doesn't, you know, feeds into a stereotype and doesn't prepares Asians for the larger world, which is one of here's the question of judgment game where, and I've been on the other end, I mean, I've sat in, on looking at applicants for graduate school, and I hear the male dialogue as to what they're looking for, and what agents aren't told them at all, minorities are told what women are told. So what they're looking for is critical analysis. And minorities and women are not given practice and critical analysis. So we and I hear time and time again, well, good grades, but doesn't show any initiative doesn't show any imagination. And this, this is really from lack of encouragement, lack of practice, and really not knowing the rules of the game, No one sat down and says, This is what they're looking at down the road, so you better prepare for it. And so we're, we're left, probably getting in but not being nurtured and encouraged for not saying whether that's a good value or not a good value, that the fact is that that that is one of those unwritten rules that that exists. For me to hear that through the to the education system is reinforcing that, because teachers will have this nice, quiet classroom with all the Asians doing well and not not rocking the boat. And then a flipside to that. There was a study done on the West Coast, in a public school system of again, behavior, cultural patterns, and the teachers and they did Black students, Asian students and Hispanic students, the one where and they're sort of, you know, norms were, what they how they think a student should behave. And what happened is that when Asian students talked, talk up, or we're just at the level of disruption for Asians, the threshold is lower. Whereas blacks and Hispanics because they have a stereotype of being more rowdy, they're allowed to act up more before the teacher sits on whereas Asians are Yeah, are squashed much sooner. And that that really has very dramatic I think repercussions for the way that students is going to develop and that it's not going to develop a well rounded person because the it's the teacher the school system is defining what is the more inclination Asians havior that makes me go towards the larger society, and so on that kind of lie in the media questions, because it's reinforced. Unknown Speaker 15:10 I can remember being in sixth grade giving an oral report on the Japanese internment, which and all the information came from my mother and my grandmother because this was a big tilde that I was wondering with. So we made it up. Made up and I refuse to shut up and talk about big squats. Yeah. That's in California, California. Unknown Speaker 15:52 Can I ask you a question on media? Really, which is, I know you're very interested in the woman. But some of my male Asian American students have raised the question is that they never see male Asian models, which is the flip side of the Asian woman that is projected as the decorative erotic exotic and therefore not only can she sell news and make it palatable. I mean, that's that whole side that you know, we make news palatable is more than pretty face to look at. It can't be that bad. Or Silk Stockings. But the they are concerned that they don't see Asian males. Unknown Speaker 16:33 Yeah, thanks for the invitation. Yeah. Firstly, is out of the picture now. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's, I mean, one is the kind of the number one son the year permit. The cops buddy played a very similar style. there when the guy was the wimps sexless with the other, which appears more and more than these. Two? That's true. Yeah, I think it's even has an effect relation. Unknown Speaker 17:12 I think a lot of, well, this is what they were saying. Therefore, they're saying the women don't want to datas was we have no positive image. This is the debate. Unknown Speaker 17:22 And the personal life. I mean, I can remember in the Asian American Studies class in high school, both Asian men and women, and we're just naming what we thought were Unknown Speaker 17:34 were qualities of beauty. Unknown Speaker 17:37 You know, for women, when the name of men was nothing close to that everybody said, what black hair? So you know, they're sophisticated enough to say that the actual shape of the body? Unknown Speaker 17:55 Have you seen gone Unknown Speaker 17:56 home? No, I want to see that. Unknown Speaker 18:01 This is a little bit agenda. Unknown Speaker 18:04 Ron Howard's Philomela Japanese firm taking over Unknown Speaker 18:08 American and Pittsburgh, Unknown Speaker 18:12 and cultural management styles. Unknown Speaker 18:19 Oh, what was the thing you mentioned about war brides? I didn't spell picture broad picture Unknown Speaker 18:25 Brazza war brides. Both, maybe both on my picture brides is where in fact, this is very common. I mean, I've been in airports, right in the last year or two. And I've had people standing there with pictures Greek fatality. What it is, is that the home cost is arranged marriage, but the cost of going and going back home to the home country to find it's really has to do with finances, is that it cost me to go home and to find someone to marry. And that means you know, it'll cost you pass if you will be out of work for a while to kind of wait. So what happens is arranged marriage setup where a family member or someone you know will show you a picture of somebody you work with and have systems show you that picture. So what people do is they see pictures of one another and then a marriage is arranged that way. So we call it the Jabra, the war bride phenomenon where Americans presence through war, or the military presence in Asia, has brought American soldiers into contact with Asian communities. And therefore many of them have married or cohabiting with Asian women all the way from World War Two, the Korean War, Vietnam, or the presence in Philippine military bases or Taiwan to military bases, and there has been this whole collection so that the intermarriage rate is skewed. So you find that more for instance, because of the war by phenomenon. At least it's changing right now. But historically, there were more Asian women married to white. Asian men marry white, and also due to sexism. Is that right? Women of color or women period, women of color can are always chosen by the dominant culture. They see. And there they can be the objects, selection, and by the nature of colonialism. One views women as an object, yeah, then there and also women choose, their dependency, therefore is greater. So this gives the male more power since the problem is when you bring when when when the people that come back and then they have to live here, and neither person is prepared for that. Interesting. Unknown Speaker 20:35 You're in the early immigration laws, well, actually today to the law, actually, not today. But the women were not allowed to come over. So like when the Japanese first came there, it was all men brought over as laborers, they didn't bring women's labor, that was the only category by which Asians could come. So the way women could come as if they were the wives of these men, but a lot of the men were young and they were not married. So then they would have, so they would look at pictures of girls and pick out a bride and then marry her through a ceremony. And absentees Unknown Speaker 21:07 which was, which is perfectly legal in the home country, because you once your names are written into the family registration marry, so you don't have to be physically there to get married, Unknown Speaker 21:20 then they could apply to students. And then some of them were the women were very deceived, because the men didn't send a real picture of themselves or they sent a picture when they were young. Unknown Speaker 21:30 Yeah. Yeah. And also it could be that often you took a picture in a boiled suit was in your suit. So and then you came in there and a lot of a lot of the diaries and some of the things but the shock of women coming and, and, or even children later coming in and welcome sign is the golden mountain how notionally if you've come to America the job living very well to find that people are toiling in the fields or working in laundries or just doing menial work, and that they work in the restaurant. They don't own the restaurant. They're working. It's not meant to be, but it's, it's still the notion, the pride and the necessity of doing. So that's another adjustment to do for us. But just Unknown Speaker 22:17 as a general question, Unknown Speaker 22:20 um, something off what we all have said about the Asian Women's coalition. I know that a lot of people in the group have different ideas about what I should be getting, because I went to some of those meetings. But people have different ideas about what the duration for it achieved, like some officer position or compensation that we paid and then some people say yes, yes, they may say no. So I just like kind of ended it know, or what, what, what does? What Yeah, what? What is your idea? Yes, she's done, as well. Unknown Speaker 23:32 And the person who answered your questionnaire said that she didn't make the kind of changes to the choice because she ultimately disassociated herself as being an Asian American. By yourself. She recommended actually Unknown Speaker 23:55 really, in Los Angeles can see Los Angeles is really supportive of Asian Unknown Speaker 24:02 American, Asian, Asian American struggles. She's done. She's I think that's a good point that you are great. Yeah. Yeah, we I think all communities have that problem of people who have been raised as models by the dominant culture and powers to be to be moms for the for the group when in fact group doesn't recognize them as long as they were taught and we're caught. Yeah. Not wanting to badmouth anybody, Unknown Speaker 24:32 or sad thing is love agents buy into those. Yes. Yeah. I think the only reason that Vincent chipchase was made is because the mainstream said, Wow, this is an outrage and when the mainstream says that they gave him legitimacy for laudation. Unknown Speaker 24:50 Could you refresh your memory about that case? You keep mentioning it I'm sure I've heard about well, what is that? Unknown Speaker 24:56 Chinese American dress in Detroit was killed He was beaten with a baseball bat by another worker, actually a foreman, allegedly because he was frustrated with Japanese imports. This was right in the middle of recession, recession. And then the two people killed him and just given them find the ration. Unknown Speaker 25:20 Yeah, so the outrage came because Justice had not been not because of that they felt that these individuals were what upstanding citizens and haven't done anything wrong before. The statement of the judge was so outrageous and people felt Unknown Speaker 25:36 so similar to something that happened earlier with that. I forget that I think this guy used to work for transit was black. So work? Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like been similar. And nothing happened. Nothing. much happened to the guy who killed him or whatever. So Unknown Speaker 26:01 maybe you want to talk a little feminist thing first? Unknown Speaker 26:07 Well, when I was in college, I consider myself a feminist. I think, in the last 10 years or so it's evolved into not considering myself. Finally, because I think that in working in the community, the involvement again is so important. And in the Asian community, educating them to change and struggling with them to change is very important. So I felt that the feminists, maybe it's a stereotype, feminist movement has targeted men in such a way that it's you, they ruled them out already. And they're just talking about like women just having movement by themselves and not being for that kind of separatism. Kind of discarded this idea of feminism for myself. I think that the feminist movement, ranging from liberal now to, you know, whatever the story is organizations that are mainly kind of white middle class organizations, that there has been kind of a gap for women of color, including Asian women, in some of the issues and in terms of working together. And I hope that, you know, that can become more bridged, you know, moving into the next period of struggles. Because I think that that there isn't really a single feminist movement or a single women's movement. I think that just the fact that 50% of the population is women, that among 50% of the keyboard, you don't have any one movement that pulls them all together that well, although I think that if women could overcome some of the barriers that divide us, we certainly will be a very strong force for social change. And I think we should try to work towards those coming in, by but where I've seen with Asian women working more effectively is fighting for women's issues within the context of the Asian community, or we're fighting for women's issues in those areas, and being able to see some result. So that's been mayor, mainly where I've worked with more in the community, making sure that the women's questions are advocated for what women need a spot for everybody, and included as part of the program. And I don't know, like I know, in the coalition of labor union women, which is a you know, mixed organization, and its kind of leadership is about half white and half black. And Chinese and Hispanic are fairly newer populations in that group. There's still a lot of bickering, while ranges from bakery to really just real differences of opinion are fairly distinct, on what should be the key things that we work on. I think for the white women's movement, that turn now towards dealing with more employment related issues should be a positive step, to try to unite with more of the women of color, because for the women of color, those really basic bread and butter, you know, working women's issues, childcare, rights on the job, equal pay, getting out of poverty, you know, those those are really the basic issues that have always occupied us, you know, since this the emergence of the women's movement, but then I think because of that real middle class orientation for a long time of the women's movement, those issues haven't been addressed that strongly. So I think now if the women's was turning more towards looking at those issues, really hard in the face and uniting people find around, that seems to be a good sign for getting us all together. Unknown Speaker 29:36 Know, actually, there's a pretty large network of Asian women in media who I'm close to. And I think it's very real, really think about it, you just end up together all the time fighting the same fights. I mean, one thing that draws us together was think that the men were involved with their bones. very frankly. Secondly, we think a lot of the men who run Asian Arts are There are in an Asian American community organizations, you know are there's a lot of feudalism that still remains in the community. Thirdly, we just trust each other more and working together. Because I feel I'd rather hire a woman on a cruise than a man because ego isn't as much of a problem filmmaking really needs. Its again, this is not something a really thought out kinda, it's just kind of in this in some Saturday work. Yeah, come out of I think people's work. You know, it's a question of ego, a lot of men cannot take direction. Women will try harder work harder, a woman producer will take a job as an associate producer or PA or whatever, to keep on working. So we ended up working together you know, we ended up organizing for some reason a lot of the leadership just happens to be women and all these little different factors come together. I think what really kind of underscored this for us very recently it's when my associate producer in the in animes familiar with this in a Asian American arts organization last month was attacked by an Asian American male artists sneak snuck up behind her garden a choco you know, beat around the head through a saw her a double blade, Woodside her. And this was because a long history, she was a good company, it's a classic story. She's a good friend of his, his poor guy, Unknown Speaker 31:35 etc. Unknown Speaker 31:36 And here we were all supposedly intellectuals and activists, this community of activists, people who are aware of the the battered women question the whole thing, you know, basically, a lot of very surprising backwards responses. But then again, we're this we find ourselves saying groups of people coming together and supporting each other. Because, you know, there's so many different aspects to being a woman being an Asian woman, and so many reasons why we want to get together, I think it's just a matter of finding what are those commonalities and recognizing that people have different class backgrounds, they have different national backgrounds. And trying to, you know, understand, Unknown Speaker 32:23 I think it was interesting when you said that you're trying to develop a theory of feminism, I don't think there is one theory, there can't be a theory. And that what I think what May and May, we're trying to just say is in the real world, and we're gonna participation in work becomes much more complicated than that. And a lot of the issues that may not look like women's issues are women's issues and issues that shouldn't be identified as women's issues like poverty, or, and I just wanted to put them on shoes and issues. So that and I have a little problem with some of the theories of feminism too, because if you just get caught up in theory, and the theory that dominates our lives are Western or Eurocentric, or French Marxism or other kinds of things, and I'm not gonna I just does not necessarily apply to the conditions of minority women in the United States, who have entirely different kinds of experiences. That doesn't include the struggle of humanity, imperialist struggle, and identification with international issues of variety, but or class concerns, and extended family responsibilities and so on, so forth, which, you know, you can't tell an Asian person to take a job and 3000 miles away from the family as easily as you can tell someone else I mean, this creates for cancers, for instance, they say, Oh, good, go go me independent, that's liberating. It may be that the, the guilt in the trauma for an Asian American overwhelms that level of independence. So I'm just suggesting that there's, it's, I don't think that Unknown Speaker 34:06 just to define Unknown Speaker 34:08 it, even to define it, because I think it would depend upon the class position, and the life experience of that individual and the expectations that they that they want. We may be attempting to impose certain things on working class women, in the sense we say, oh, quit this job and go and do X. And it may be something that they cannot accept. At that point, we might encourage them that this may be a liberating claim. But there are certainly certainly things that are structural, they have nothing to do with men that men are as much victims. And a lot of our task is to educate others including men otherwise we cannot cannot do it ourselves. I mean, we if we liberate ourselves and move to another planet. We still have a structure but the structure is larger, is larger. than those, those men who share our lives. Unknown Speaker 35:05 I think it's good though, for the Asian women to get together and give each other support, because in this example, talked about even though I mean, I thought it was very good, we all got together and there is a network of Asian women that will kind of rise to the occasion, like this happens. But interestingly, the upshot of that in the Chinese newspapers was like, well, it just goes to show you shouldn't pick on a feminist. Unknown Speaker 35:31 There was another example of a student who was Sarah Lawrence, who started who opposed a male professor white male professor for challenged him in the classroom, the course was on China or Asia or anywhere, China, because he would show slides to illustrate. But they were all over specimen. So yeah, but they were all on the edge of pornography. very erotic, you know, this, you know, this is the, this is what an Asian American or Asian experience is, is an Asian woman who was show these subsets she challenged this and it was a real learning experience for her as to who supported or who didn't support her and others people said, the same question you have in the media, this is academic freedom. There this is history, you can't you know, challenge history this is this is what their lives were like, and you say no, I'm trying to help you understand rather than seeing that he was exploiting the condition of women and getting some personal kick started but the option was that he was he was not recommended. I think he sort of probably shouldn't teach the course for a while but essentially Basler did nothing about it You didn't have to didn't have any chance to ask a question. So can I do this Unknown Speaker 37:05 No, I kind of got what I have countdown. started what we were talking about historically, in Asia week seems Unknown Speaker 37:50 to change if I can show that you know, so. So kind of a different kind of partner. What do you identify as well, Unknown Speaker 38:04 I think one of the things that I do is like flushing or basically you don't count your time Unknown Speaker 38:23 servants at home to Taiwan. Unknown Speaker 38:29 That's what happened in Hong Kong. But we never would have never had to write in this country who really can't function in London, are sort of delving into the situation where they have to go through and have to go out and Jamil it's a conflict and also the struggle we talked about. And that's something that's so different from Asian parents. Unknown Speaker 39:13 Especially for the middle class, where working is considered a no no, I mean, a proper middle class household who shouldn't have to work. If the husband was properly earning a decent living, his wife would have to go. Unknown Speaker 39:30 I was thinking about, you know, the women who say, I've been in your class women who are having a great traditional rose by just a homemaker really have have pretty much always driven decisions all the time. Even if, if, if they are So I'm into the job now. And the power struggle that emerges from that change. Unknown Speaker 40:11 Change in relation to it was strange, my, my mother wanted us to have careers, which is very unusual, but of course never so dominating, which wouldn't have come. But because her generation grew up with, she's her lot of friends had to marry, because marriage was a vehicle of social mobility, marital security. And she said, they just had to marry anybody. And so her notion was, if you have a career, then you are economically free to choose the person you want to marry. Now there was a gave you a level of autonomy. Which other women because she saw a lot of them say they would marry somebody who and of course, the worst thing you've been married nature community, somebody who drinks too much cannabis and money away and pizza, right. She saw a lot of not a lot, but she saw enough to say, Well, if you have that option, then that should give you a level of freedom that a previous generation didn't have that that was something that was in her mind. And I think that was a feminist position. You know, and yeah, we would probably not define that in such a in terms of today. But that whole notion of thinking about doing that, of course, she never expected her daughters to do the kinds of things. Do. Unknown Speaker 41:36 You want to make some money? No, I think that's, Unknown Speaker 41:39 that's very positive. Unknown Speaker 41:41 Go make more money. Unknown Speaker 41:45 Working women who work yeah. But I think all men have to this point, because they Unknown Speaker 41:50 don't think that's really taking Unknown Speaker 41:51 them to this position. Especially, especially as a job. Unknown Speaker 41:58 It's survival, survival. But the I mean, this study is based on division of labor in the household. I don't think it was a study done specifically on Asian. So my views are totally impressionistic. And maybe Renee and may have other impressionistic views. But I think the younger generation is much more egalitarian. Like the My Brother's more egalitarian, but I think that that burden, a lot of women still still carry, and cha cha. And increasingly, since grandparents are not always living in the household, to share that those responsible, and also the birth rate, by the way, is going down in each community. And the reason why it's going down is because women are working on the refusing. Unknown Speaker 42:50 Generally, the Asian women welcome developments of birth control. I mean, this is, this is kind of funny, because in the union, when we have these discussions between the Asian women and the Hispanic women on issues like birth control, especially abortion, I mean, Asia, for the Asian women. I mean, the fact that you could control a planet family was a huge scientific advance. I mean, you know, why, and that's definitely something that's good for religion and to be able to choose who you get pregnant. We don't want to have a child have an abortion, there isn't that whole religious and moral thing attach sure that there is a Catholic background country. So that was a very interesting discussion, because actually, it's quite heated, because for the people who have their religious arguments, you know, around, especially around abortion, and we're just like, you know, that kind of thing. Because I grew up with this with that notion that okay, this is this is just, you know, this is in advance and let me just start to hear those arguments from other people was very interesting. When I first started to get involved in listening to people talking about issues Unknown Speaker 44:02 affecting women's lives. In the modern period, it's always funny to watch this race changing challenges. If you're in that space Unknown Speaker 44:23 because of choices, choices, that your life isn't just failure, of course, within like, just death, I mean, people just knew they would die from giving birth. Unknown Speaker 44:37 Because the the other thing is that there's the real racist image that Asians don't like, breed like rabbits, or that we, you know, like we want to have like it you know, all these countries in the third world that women just want to have an educated want to have all these huge families, but that's very contrary to the fact for anywhere for the Chinese community. I think for women if they could control On the number of children, they put more into raising those kids they have because I think for the women from the old days who had songs that really literally had so many kids that they really could not handle, you know, each kid taking care of them in the way that they would want it to Unknown Speaker 45:19 be sterilization discussions Unknown Speaker 45:30 Well, sterilization I think, I mean, obviously, we say for sterilization, because I know a couple of women who are non English speaking immigrant women who were victims of forced sterilization, who went to Puerto Rican, no Chinese, who have, you know, a cesarean birth, and then before they go into the birth room, there is a sign paper, they don't know what they're signing, they're signing to have their tubes tied. There's no one or two women who actually had that happen that when they were on the office, you know, that was in Los Angeles. I mean, this is actually Los Angeles became notorious for that, because a lot of the Mexican woman sued the Los Angeles public hospitals. But But I think voluntary sterilization is it's also probably a little bit more coldly. I mean, just for some way, I mean, especially since I'm more of this middle age group. Now, a lot of women just say, Well, you know, the best way to birth control is to sterilize they look at it in various ways. But but the question of sterilization for men as we were just just Unknown Speaker 46:47 getting some information on how many positions I don't want you to name them. I know that a lot of them. But what type of sleep to doing? Unknown Speaker 47:04 Well, I think, what issues do Unknown Speaker 47:06 they focus on? Unknown Speaker 47:09 Let me speak in generalities. There are there's an there's an organization for every everything, but there are there are mass organizations that cut across classes. And then there are specific professional organizations is sort of geared geared into librarians and social workers and teachers and then some maths or organizations, I think the ones that you might be more, you know, I don't know which ones you're more interested in. But it really depends on I think many of the issues are all the same, because as we've been discussing today, family work, survival you know, human rights issues employment, voting, and often this if you that particular group doesn't fulfill your particular concern, then the property is a group that will so when I'm asked answering Is there a lot of groups out there doing all kinds of different things and having variety of kinds of functions from producing magazines to to having fundraisers, politicians to volunteering your time in old age homes Unknown Speaker 48:25 hmm, yeah, like for instance, membership wants a New York Asian woman United it's one mass for Asian American professional association that was it. Yeah, and then there's one on business two, and it was all those Unknown Speaker 48:42 remember specific national Unknown Speaker 48:44 national rules? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 48:47 Various Chinese like mines. Unknown Speaker 48:50 Organ and then there's then there's by nationality organization, Chinese women, the JCL. So Unknown Speaker 49:00 I was just thinking that they were doing focuses on the more diversities like, normally an organization or women's rights or whatever it continues to be. Our class. I know. There are some days when I don't know, middle class, there was no strong national Unknown Speaker 49:28 Asian. Yeah, there. Yeah. There is. I think in the next few years, we'll see we'll see something emerge it one has been we've had some wonders or numbers you know, which have been what I tried to do to him is that we've been historically been kept small through restrictive immigration discriminations have been deliberately kept her numbers small. And it's only since 1965. immigration legislation they should community scrub through immigration and there and also the roofs. So one of the numbers as well. The other thing is that we are, we are concentrated in three areas for I West Coast in this small pocket around New York. So that makes it very difficult for communication. So we tend to have a sort of regional orientation rather than. And then there's the whole problem of the being having an immigrant community for so long. And also what women didn't get chance to do as civil rights is that Asian Americans who have been denied access to the civil rights for so long, a lot of people aren't aware that that 1882 immigration bills not only said Chinese couldn't come in, but said that Chinese were considered aliens and eligible for citizenship. And then this was applied to other Asian groups, which meant for up until 1943, unless you're born here, and they tried to figure a way to do that, and couldn't figure out how to do that. But essentially, Asians could come here and remain here for 80 years and never could not get citizenship to the process of naturalization with aliens. And so we came from out of space. So therefore, we were not a viable political animals, we couldn't participate in the political structure. And also, political stuff could just ignore us in a city like San Francisco that's 25%. Asian, we should, we should be, you know, until recently, we have not been a viable political entity, that politicians will fall all over to get the vote and the reason why they didn't fall over because we couldn't give a vote. And they didn't have to deliver anything. Even though agents were taxpayers, and so on. I mean, not being citizens has nothing to do with paying taxes and supporting the system. So as a consequence, our entry into political participation in the larger sphere is really a post, you know, I'm interested all the way along them and fighting and fighting to change laws. Historically, from the immigration laws, they fought at every level of the Union union, unionization, a lot of people don't know that the the early farm labor unions on the west coast were heavily Asian, or in with Filipinos struggling, although Chicanos get a lot more media credit for the first Salinas strike was Filipino directed. So there are a lot of things in the Japanese. Wise, a lot of people don't don't know of those kinds of things. Again, this media blackout and And historically, we just have cameras without that knowledge is kept from people from tech formations as well as community. So that's, that's a recent phenomenon. So we have purchased and then you have to wait, you get about a third and fourth generation community who are secure in their, in their livelihood here, who can expend that kind of energy. And being in politics, I don't mean running for office, but I mean, community work, it's time consuming. And it requires a certain amount of financial security. So you don't have to take a second job or, you know, you can pay cab fare, or you know, late at night, those kinds of things require a little level of economic security, before people can venture out. And at some point, you have to know that the system will reward you people don't go out and do things, unless they think that they can be effective. So there's that, that play between the larger society and the group itself in terms of pushing and getting something pushing. So I do think with the community going where, and I'm talking relational algebra, one where it is I think, it's the 1990s, which it's a similar certainly electing more, officials some. But but that's with every community. So I think, and we haven't mentioned with the women Unknown Speaker 53:30 on you, that will determine that whether we make it to the 1990s as a political forces, how much this assimilationist trend really takes root among our younger generation. So I think that was like for all of you in college still, you know, whether, because I think since we're a very small population in the past, and then because of the camp experience, and some very repressive things that happened to Asians, a lot of the younger generation decided that the best way to avoid being singled out is to be white tend to just try and make it playing the white man's game in that way. And I think now that we're such a much more visible and sizable population I'm not sure it's going to be that easy to do that and yeah, I think that the fact that Newsweek and all these magazines that cover the Asians like well we really made it you know, all What did they say that all the goes Westinghouse scholars and Asians this year and you know, they play up all those things, which you know, I think it's great because I think our kids are really smart by I hope that they have they maintain some consciousness of towards the community. And I think that would partly determine whether we because it could political force, Unknown Speaker 54:39 it doesn't matter what what skill or talent you have is what you do is it I mean if you do is it just for yourself? Then of course, you know, you might know someone was what you would always what you do is it how much you give back how much you reach back and Unknown Speaker 54:55 some experience for people to understand for Well, because I think I know Renee and the media, people really have a hard time getting acceptance or Asian defined histories. Because because the media has already decided how they want you to find this, it's hard for our younger people to find that because of what you were saying about not being trained in analytical thinking, not being trained to feel that we should be able to say for ourselves, what we have experienced, that this is the truth, or Renee talking, recounting her mother or grandmother's experience of a cabin and the teacher is telling, Unknown Speaker 55:34 by channeling our Asian students into into strictly technical applied areas, which means we will not have a voice in those in those kinds of judgments like in history in political science and humanities. And they're at an increasingly have the vicious circle. So because you have no history, then you didn't exist. And if we're not educating people or training people, so they'll write our history, then there will be no history. So it's sort of Unknown Speaker 56:01 sufficient studies classes and classes. Unknown Speaker 56:08 We have well, we call it Asian American Studies. And we went to the streets in the late 60s, early 70s, along with that whole blank study, to study to change the tuitions. One things that came out of it were ethnic studies programs, including Asian American Studies programs. And one program we have, they're much more fertile and support on the west coast, where they have a large, large Asian population. But it was also an example also, it was demanded was not given it was sitting in on you know, and picketing presidents and on the East Coast and sending on the City College, City College has the one program is called Asian Studies, Asian American Studies is subsumed under that. But to give you an idea of what has happened, and it really reflects the kinds of reach kind of retrenchment and backlash that we're seeing that all I think, struggles for social change for the 60s and early 70s. So that was a seven person department degree program. It's now down to two people who are about to retire. And I think that it was in close that when there's no model program on the east coast at a time in Asia, population is growing so rapidly. And the time when, when Asia is so much a part of the world that people love to be exposed to Asians, Asian men are serious. That department is allowed to die through the fiscal crisis that CUNY had, which is a big lie, because certainly lots of people lost their jobs, but certain people kept the job. So it was one of those more vulnerable things. And then to to the neutrals. I know the last opposition, there were more radical progressives and some of the others just the normal standards. American Unknown Speaker 57:55 times in all the time lives, Unknown Speaker 58:00 which dry trying and we will come to you for support, we go to the picket lines. No, we are there. There are colleges that have one Tor hunters hat on and off one core, Yale, I myself, Unknown Speaker 58:19 went up to here once a week to get the course. Unknown Speaker 58:22 Amherst us in Amherst had it a couple of times at Harvard have a couple of times, and I'll place the title for next year. Once we have not had an H, I don't think we've had nationwide women's chorus on the East Coast officially started through and being done by students. No, no. Again, this is again, this is where the class race and all that come into it. The student it's the Ivy League private institution, who's students are a little bit better off and have a little more energy and more time to do this. Through a woman's equity program. We've had a number of students volunteer from their schools. And we had a sort of a a grouping where a number of us gave them syllabi and readings and so on and so forth. And the students themselves after the time, they've gone back to this particular unit, whether it's due to give the course themselves without pay without remuneration is all launchers, the students are sitting in it without credit. That's how they're doing. And this is symptomatic of the consequence you have to do just to keep the thing alive. Meanwhile, institutions will pay other individuals to give them some other legitimate because we're still struggling to have what we consider our history, our culture, our media considerable gentlemen, big. The other big struggle we've had is you've got to have the PhD and so on and so forth. And that was our big struggle of six or seven, a lot of us, trained ourselves in Asian American Studies, and could teach the course without A PhD but now the institutions have to have somebody come in and do that with imaging degrees are out so so. So we're back to that kind of thing yet yet if the system will give you a PhD in that area, how are you going to get the PhD to do it if it's not rewarding enough? So we lost during the recession, a whole generation scam. I'm one of the lucky ones that came through that period, finished supposed to attend. But a lot of times it didn't finish the PhD. And or this got started in academia but didn't get tenure. And then then generation students who would have wanted to didn't try because they looked ahead and said, unemployment, so they rushed back to engineering and accounting. That's a kind of, that's the obstacle that's those are barriers people don't see. And then they go and Pat people on the heads. Oh, you're so bright and engineering. We don't see that, that there are more people would go in structure. But it isn't. I tell you, it's rough in the social sciences. It was rough in areas where where you're new and where you're where you're changing the definition of what is information? Or what is knowledge. It's a knowledge industry. Yeah, you're deserving Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:01:27 Do all these other things. Just spend your time yeah, baby. Boy. Unknown Speaker 1:01:30 I mean, your career can really Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But you have to put 40% of your time and other thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All of us do a lot of volunteer. Yeah, a lot of volunteer work and a variety of other things. And just to keep the Asian American Experience alive, and just to keep keep things going. We do we do those kinds of things without remuneration. Unknown Speaker 1:01:53 All right, thanks. Oh, we should Unknown Speaker 1:01:55 let everyone go downstairs. I think there's another session, and I thank all of you for coming.