Unknown Speaker 00:01 My first year I went into my charge right away and he said this this plane is out for us and on the back end which is a way to library and read and read and Unknown Speaker 00:32 after about a month Unknown Speaker 00:33 convinced myself that he was totally off the wall when he said Unknown Speaker 00:41 but I couldn't Unknown Speaker 00:42 accept that and therefore I read for another one more do you want to be? Unknown Speaker 00:50 Sure so I read for a couple more months before and as more and more combination of Unknown Speaker 01:00 this method This method doesn't really finally after that six months I couldn't stand it anymore later I have an interest in very funny this happens all the time. We are thesis advisor is very fun to get out of your head ready to go off at school. Unknown Speaker 01:38 But where Unknown Speaker 01:39 I failed very badly, and where Unknown Speaker 01:46 the guys wouldn't let me Unknown Speaker 01:48 see what a fine marriage that Unknown Speaker 01:53 was the idea that I was telling you Unknown Speaker 02:04 I have Unknown Speaker 02:08 was telling him that this was a stupid idea. Unknown Speaker 02:12 never even occurred to me and even when it occurs, the idea that I Unknown Speaker 02:18 was so completely boring that I Unknown Speaker 02:22 and I think this is Unknown Speaker 02:25 an extreme example but I think it's not in the sense of Unknown Speaker 02:33 lack of being willing to sort of Unknown Speaker 02:36 go in and say something or make a mistake or because you Unknown Speaker 02:44 but the fear of showing Unknown Speaker 02:47 yourself not to say something for some reason seems to Unknown Speaker 02:56 be more than that expressed is that a lot of times and if you get something wrong Unknown Speaker 03:22 to the fact that there aren't it's not a woman who's telling you to do this and you are you know, probably like if you're a representative of women, and if it's just are you if you mess something up, Unknown Speaker 03:35 then they're gonna Unknown Speaker 03:37 get killed, say Oh, well women. As long as you don't have a critical mass of women there every woman's going to be handling the sample has a lot of pressures pointed at Unknown Speaker 03:55 it women tend to Unknown Speaker 03:58 get so personally involved in what they're doing that they also feel that their total fix or in one of these days somebody's going to find out I think every single woman that I know has this problem whether they're scientists or not Unknown Speaker 04:18 thing is coming with Unknown Speaker 04:20 the passage that you're not supposed to walk into your Unknown Speaker 04:25 advisors office and say I think your ideas I think is really Unknown Speaker 04:37 about empowering that as soon as Unknown Speaker 04:44 possible and that is you know, I think I think Jackie relationship is very useful way of looking at the way again, statistically In the cause of the ready to purchase, more contextually not all women before they ever, but that for example, math is more related to the world through practice starts getting more abstract. And so it may start to feel more uncomfortable maybe maybe an atrium, or comfortable. Like a lake for the supernova. I wish I had enough technical knowledge to doing these to really let my imagination weigh about why it's triggered. Something like that. Because I do know that and I think when you say, you know, there is going to be a period of credentialing, you know, I need to share that, you know, the pain you're gonna have to go through that credentialing which is going to be very unnatural for you not because you are inferior or unattractive or whatever, but because of social relations and creation of your personality and played and it's really going to be hard but you need those tools. And then to give people a support while they do something which feels unnatural, biologically is not comfortable. So I think in a way too long to say I want to throw tomatoes at people who say to her I agree up and be apologetic, I think that you have to say you're going to enter into turf, it's going to feel uncomfortable. You know, here are some of the reasons why it's gonna feel uncomfortable, but you can do it and now let me try to get them away. Or today to talk about why we use aluminum and pass to boiling eggs or to whipped cream or egg whites is something that we're going to talk about how we played and speaking about that transition and the transition predisposes us to science of learning the things that you need and making and that's where it begins better support there's no denying that there's nothing like because it's very lonely though that one Unknown Speaker 07:24 thing that can keep you going I know from my own experience is just incredible love for what it is that you realize and not being blind to the fact that people are trying to people and that there's also something but I think in what they are doing something like this Every woman has a scientist has credibility over the way know being a scientist you have to it's much more impressive and if you have the faith that once you get through you can actually walk Unknown Speaker 08:28 but I think you can't underestimate people understand it and criticize it because it's just like you know when you're the dentist's chair and you say this is silly take you three more minutes right through it it's gonna go on forever you know, so is the way that being very realistic is that what they have to do to get the tool? Yeah, but this never discussed that the napkin is taken off special pupils in the mathematics biology class put our finger on particularly. Katherine Unknown Speaker 10:00 The same level and we are very Unknown Speaker 10:14 comfortable with the way we are, we are just flying around Unknown Speaker 10:28 we are not aligned in that. I mean, we're exposed to the same question in the class and in the class. I mean, nobody can take that away from us, but they can't take Unknown Speaker 10:39 the toys away Unknown Speaker 10:51 I'm not mature enough enough, because we haven't put in some of the social stories of the sociologists of science and pointing out the decision has been elevated as Unknown Speaker 11:06 we model the most rigorous and Unknown Speaker 11:10 the most adaptive sciences logically progressive. Unknown Speaker 11:13 And I think if you're already being told that it's something you can't do, or this is presented that Unknown Speaker 11:20 way, that's going to discourage you Unknown Speaker 11:24 as far as differentiating I don't know. The specific suggestion and social Unknown Speaker 11:48 structure of academic chemistry and physics in this country is very, very divided into a German tradition. And this is this is really near our physics in our chemistry, how we deal with Unknown Speaker 12:00 the ceiling Unknown Speaker 12:04 where, where the individual their search pretty much on another collaboration, there isn't this triangle of information professing until today perceive as much more hierarchical and therefore maybe more barriers and opposite of network more and more. ProQuest. Speak to Unknown Speaker 13:19 you. physical intuition can either be in the classroom for the systemic performance or they can belong to the class of people who think that what we're saying is radical. way that we propose those looking at things actually says that physical intuition as well as things that are even less things that we think of as being less rational come into play when trying to stop and as a result, different science because Unknown Speaker 14:08 the person has evolved. Unknown Speaker 14:11 And depending upon that particular person's social history, and so I see that women and men would have very different physical intuitions and as a result, we have had very different things to offer. Unknown Speaker 14:35 I really want to ask the question, first of all about immigration. I think immigration takes two reasons. One is knowledge enough to know enough to make a connection. Unknown Speaker 14:53 Now, there is certainly a certain degree of risk in this They're not just, you know, thinking really big upon. I seem that that's, that's the way it is, many, many times you know the answer to the problem, even without knowing how to prove it, you just know the answer. Sometimes. Sometimes you do have to kind of really know the answer and walk around for months by the COVID. And finally, if you're lucky, you'll succeed, you'll find you're not you're discouraged. Which brings me to the question that I had quite few graduates. Unknown Speaker 15:49 And the major thing that I found about my female status, calories. And when I used to pause the program, you go away, and come back, not with the answer. With the whole theory, he would already come back with answers the questions I might have. And two questions that he didn't even occur to me. But many times that I put the same thing to feel to go away and come back with the answer. And I wonder if it has to do with the same kind of dilemma that I talked about the intuition? Or maybe the same kind of intimidation? Don't dare to think, and where does it come from? Because we know that women do their to do things in other topics of life, without question. Well, things in everyday life when you when you face a medical situation situation at home, and you have to make a decision to make it. Sometimes it's wrong to make it. Unknown Speaker 17:11 But if there's a man around saying, No, you shouldn't do Unknown Speaker 17:14 that. But then I think the same level of intimidation, Unknown Speaker 17:18 as to I want to ask the question about that advisor, because you have the same reaction. I wish I knew. I suspect you wouldn't I suspect other. People also do and what to look for a woman Unknown Speaker 17:43 me talk about your support. And it's true, it's so important. It's really a major break. Unknown Speaker 17:50 If somebody's hungry, then you are going to sit and think about it. It's not your ego. Unknown Speaker 17:59 But more, not more easily. Support, support and apprehensive to perpetuate extinction. Largely, you've got to be able to not threaten them with a covenant with making them feel good about it. They support you have camaraderie, we're not out in the townships. That's, it's really nice. When a man turns around, it's important to emphasize that cigarettes are brilliant. Those are real Unknown Speaker 18:40 interesting, I'm a filing cabinet. somewhat different experience. And a lot of people in a way it was good in terms of my whole educational background, having Unknown Speaker 18:53 all the terrific Unknown Speaker 18:54 science seekers and not so true. history as a math teacher who could make anybody who hated math, love it by making songs out of them problems, spelling, playing a trumpet and really being corrected. And so my teacher in sixth grade, you take us on field trips to the beach, and really more importantly, in graduate school, having an advisor and an editor good and bad things about this one, I have to face certain realities of science today. collimated mind going off in lots of different directions, who was the only one in the lab who is doing something entirely different from everybody else? And sort of let me do that. Whether he could do this again, I don't know. And also having another one on my committee who wasn't like Pfizer but did different things with the science. She wrote children's books, she loved chapters and showed me that there were different ways that in an academic setting one to do different things, of course, people didn't think too much of our children's books in. It, let me play in different directions it didn't. The good part about it was, the bad part was, I wasn't forced to do a lot of things that now sort of help in terms of tenure and things like that. But having that kind of environment, for me was very good. I think, as one has more women coming into science, you have more people providing this kind of support to explore different directions, which very few of my colleagues and friends and friends in school had, there was an environment saying, Okay, you're in this lab, you do this, this. And people would say, go off and do whatever you want, even though I can only think about it. You know, for me, that worked, because I could bring something, something else into it. But it also showed me how I can be supportive and create an environment for students who want to explore other things, as long as you're aware that they're also dangerous in that in terms of the applicants the reality of being an academic situation, when you have to produce papers to get jobs and things like that, and you can begin to balance the two. It's not easy. And I would say there are more women doing this by provide more support for people who want to. Find something here Unknown Speaker 21:49 listening to us thinking about Unknown Speaker 21:52 intuition. Unknown Speaker 21:54 There you go and tell your thesis with eyes, feelings, ideas, okay? I also will take Unknown Speaker 22:05 the metaphor one uses one thing you notice little boys or girls are Unknown Speaker 22:10 highly discouraged from Unknown Speaker 22:12 skateboarding, taking. And Unknown Speaker 22:17 I think there's an intellectually I don't think girls. Unknown Speaker 22:43 Said I was talking about support. But the whole idea of taking risks to some extent you need support in order to be able to take risks potentially. But I think there has to come a time when you start to rely on your own strength. That time too, because you never really get there. Because if you are too reliant on support, the support goes away. And you fall Unknown Speaker 23:16 into sort of in response to a piece that you we found that encouraging women, that women who also have children. And I've been wondering about whether one of the reasons that women have trouble with the whole idea is not only that they have trouble with science, but do they have trouble was was a career at all? And can we cubbyhole ourselves like that is the idea of a career of being a doctor or a lawyer, or a scientist, a male structure that we're trying to fit into. And here we are trying to talk about how to get more women to become scientists. But is that really what we want anyway? Or is it that we want to figure out a new way to exist in the world, which incorporates being a scientist? Of course, this whole idea of specialization is something that has developed throughout the course of civilization, and we're going to come along now and say, no more specialization? Or, or is there a way to cope with our own feelings that, you know, just being this narrow thing doesn't? Doesn't make it for me, that's not what I am. So how am I going to figure out how to become what I am and there's this whole structure and kind of break into it, I have to try to be a physicist, you know, so how are you going to figure out new ways to be in a world that already is structured a certain way? And with the influx of more women, will that happen? But until we say it's alright, to go through this career, we're not going to, you know, as a first step kit, it's funny you can't, Unknown Speaker 24:55 we certainly can't formulate as you go, but you can't without having to in there. If you say no professionalization, that's, that's 90 women coming and going. Unknown Speaker 25:07 I mean, it's it's a very tough issue. It's a problem Unknown Speaker 25:11 in oneself when one is trying to become something. Because again, you don't know if you can identify with that what you're trying to do. And it's something that you have to sort of really pay I think Unknown Speaker 25:31 the context that was originally raised about what he's doing, Unknown Speaker 25:38 is they're raising issues that change the higher epistemological structure of the field. And so they're taking the feminist thing Unknown Speaker 25:48 and I think reasonably to answer that question, what Unknown Speaker 25:52 what kind of what kind of assignment there are asking the question, what kind of scientists what is a scientist? Unknown Speaker 25:58 And how is the Unknown Speaker 26:02 end so they're not just talking about Unknown Speaker 26:03 women cases, talking about science? And then then climate scientists and many more meaning that we'll find the scientists they really Unknown Speaker 26:12 are and one more example of Unknown Speaker 26:15 feminism not being Unknown Speaker 26:18 an oppositional thing men against women by Unknown Speaker 26:22 adding the other path to what it is to Unknown Speaker 26:25 be anything and ultimately realizing that everything is different than you thought. Unknown Speaker 26:32 Keller Keller says in her vocation she says that it was her ex adviser when she read her manuscript asked her so what is it that you are worried about when she says it is not so much what I have learned about women is what I have learned about men and even more so we've heard that loud and clear tools a lot of other really good things that are realized that's just exactly what is meant by the way a woman is excited thank you all. It's like you nation goes last question my friend know what you see you see the message this morning is continuing Okay women were in high school and I have always I mean it's the attitude Unknown Speaker 30:46 it's a matter of when literally has very open discussions with women and I don't know it's just a process