Unknown Speaker  00:00
preacher, you don't get material from our point of view that speaks from for us. And I'm saying you as students, you to be a student, you have to study have sources of information as wide an angle and make your own independent opinion. Let's see if anyone here when you bring a speaker, you want to know what's their biographical data? What have they studied, what is they've done, so it still still fit onto the same set of centers you have who is eligible to be an informant to us.

Unknown Speaker  00:40
Rest But first, the complaint about South Africa has always been quite are in control. Whites are the ones who are ruling the whites are the source of oppression. So one way was to Karla, they are they are parties, that you cannot say now we only have an all white government. So they the whites themselves, dictated planned, you know, within the people that are labeled a you know, Asians and because our labor color, but we have so many so many to solve to form a meaning, you know, a parliament that will still be subservient to the all white parliament. So the idea was also to divide. And because the people that are oppressed in South Africa, who do not have the political, political electric power, have rallied around one name, which is blackness, which is a political statement. So the Asians, the Indians, the Africans, have always worked together, because even though they have a more and more privileged base of color, they are all president and the same vote, they have some of the same group as you namely, and in this solidity as they have been trying to break it down. So one way to bring in divide a room within them was to draw this hoping that we will divide and fight amongst ourselves. So this has not really divided the people. It has made the people to look at this issue different. And of course, as individuals, we have different levels of resistance to temptations, you know, and the same way we have individuals who say maybe half a loaf is better than no, no, you know, we might do something over there. It's not that they accept the system. So this is the setup. But the main thing is that there is growing opposition to that very idea right now, within the Indian community within the color community. There have been protests, you know, that against the second Now, the second issue about the neighboring countries, their neighboring countries that have been economically dependent on South Africa, you know, have have a very strong commitment to struggle on justice. And many of the blacks were in the White, who and a few whites who have fled South Africa have gone to the neighboring countries, and South Africa has always born these countries, destroy them, and they have not been able to maintain themselves. So it's like a bully, beating down a small, you know, a boy, and after clicking down the boy, then we can agree with that. Now, when we're together, we agree, it does not mean that the neighboring countries have given up the struggle. No, they also have to survive and live. So the Compact is its expediency on a political and economic level. But it does not alter their commitment to justice. No do and we see how they, our struggle is maneuvering, to divide and conquer. And it's one way in which they're also trying to destroy the OAU, the Organization of African Unity, the same methods of dividing and conquering all other nations. She's done not only by South Africa, but also with your CIA here, the British, the French, they are all been in glove with the same setup. So I don't know what your response is. But that's my response.

Unknown Speaker  04:10
I was in Cape Town in 76. The bulk of the color population living in Cape Town and colored people then clearly made it quite clear to the government where the Legions lie even though the government has for a long time, tried to persuade colored people that they interest might be with the white government. And in 7600 Students rioted and this the situation was the same basically as it's a way to fix it. You didn't have that many people killed. With this new constitution, the Labour Party, from the time they decided to go in with the government. They have not been able to speak I left the country just after the Labour Party decided to go and travel around the country trying to try and sell the deal to people. They were basically not allowed to talk any way meetings were disrupted there was violence. Even in a city like Durban where there's a very small color population that people have, you might, you know, there's not been a sort of history of resistance as in Cape Town and Johannesburg, the Labour Party couldn't talk, they were, it's been quite clear that people are opposed to the system as to say that they would be awesome. Some people, some color, Indian people who will be can be bought over, Emma's interests might just, you know, might see monetary or might believe particularly older people might believe that maybe this is a way of getting a slice of the cake and changing the cake ultimately better. But if they took it to a referendum, which the government has refused to do, that you could do a referendum it wouldn't pass. So people have been quite adamant about how they feel about the new constitution.

Unknown Speaker  06:01
Give much power to the groups that will join in this track camera thing, what happens is the president of the state would now have more even more power. And you know, it's a consolidate consolidation of apart datasets system. And it's making it even more fascist, while at the same time cosmetic making us think that it is looking better. And making South Africa's image, of course, better to the international community. But you know, it's something that together with the agreement that has been signed, it was something that in the ANC, as our president said, we should see this as a clarion call, to consolidate our struggle to strengthen ourselves because the issue is not, you know, it's not the cross border issues with Mozambique and so forth. They they're stranded in South Africa is inside South Africa. And cuando se, which is the military wing of the ANC is fighting from inside we have bases in South Africa, this cross border issue is an issue to to, to to divert us from political issues that would go for bed of a party. And, you know, to make us, you know, look at that, rather than look at what's going on inside. And to actually I mean, it's election, election, election year, rhetoric to make us look at the United States and think the United States has been instrumental and things look very good. And it's doing something good for southern Africa, when in fact, you look at the basis for signing for signing the treaty, and you look at who has watched to give, and you can actually see that. It's really, that is not the issue in southern Africa. In effect, we look at who's the aggressor in South Africa, in southern Africa, we know that the South African regime has been the aggressor. And we know that the United States has not changed its plans for southern Africa. So they need to overthrow the Mozambican the Mozambican government as it's constituted as well as the Angolan government. Two days ago, you just had that m&r was widely attacking Mozambique inside Mozambique and m&r to the creation of South Africa. And in fact, right before this, these agreements were signed, South Africa was purchasing even more this is a replica of m&r, so that we should m&r is the movement for national Mozambique Mozambican National Resistance, which which was started by the South Africans using some of the so called dissidents.

Unknown Speaker  08:47
Just like CIA is doing it in Nicaragua, and El Salvador, they just want to share it all that we have said it, according to South African law, it is treason. This treasonable, punishable by death. And it's not an easy thing for us to share here. And some of you may never even meet some of us again. But we have paid a very heavy price to do this. And we want to live to one happiness. But we also cannot accept happiness in slavery. We can rather have our poverty in freedom and liberty and determine our own destiny. This is the price that some of us play with lost families for lost relatives. And even here we can't get our papers fixed because of who we are what we stand for. meetings like this and that will not stop us. I'm about reached our time limit, I want to thank you again.

Unknown Speaker  10:15
So I just want to say can maybe you can mention I forgot to mention, I forgot to mention something that this is the you women. were wondering that

Unknown Speaker  10:26
I forgot something extremely important that 1984 has been declared there for South African women, South African and Namibian women, by the United Nations at the request of the African National Congress. And it is a year where we hope to galvanize and strengthen the sub the the role of women within the organization, and we hope that you will participate in the rallying are we in running around this year of women, where they will be there'll be many events, and of course, you know, that August 9, is they Women's Day, International Women's Day, and that we should, you know, in your respective groups, whatever groups that exist, we hope that you will try to coordinate with the African National Congress, women section two to have commemorative events for August 9, and to have maybe even, you know, conferences that revolve around the issue of women in South Africa.

Unknown Speaker  11:29
There's one more announcement before people go and I'd be very brief, but I think that most of us have probably been very inspired by people who have been involved in the struggle against apartheid firsthand, and on the front lines, but I think is sister Jabbar who pointed out it's very important for us to make personal decisions about how we can lend support to that struggle. And on this campus in particular, I don't know how many people here who liaised with Columbia, but there's been a struggle for the past two years to demand in this university. That's the $44 million, and currently has invested in companies that do business in South Africa. I'm the co chairperson of the Coalition for free South Africa at Columbia. And we've been kind of spearheading that struggle. So I think that that would be one way that people who on this campus either as faculty and staff, or the students could lend some support to the anti apartheid struggle that's going on here. Because the US companies that Columbia and other such institutions have investments in are profiting from the kinds of slavery and oppression and exploitation that exists in South Africa. And I think it's, it's our duty to demand that kind of economic support. This continues. So I have a list here, a sign up sheet if people want to get on the mailing list and Coalition for free South Africa. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  12:59
Just give me your name, as you wouldn't want to be identified on the

Unknown Speaker  13:03
tabby cylinder of the African National Congress, women section, New York, I'm a student at Columbia.

Unknown Speaker  13:12
Okay. If you could just speak a little about the accords and the impact that they have had on the struggle within the borders of Southern Africa, and has it as the government would have wished subverted any of the movement because, you know, it affects the basis in Mozambique.

Unknown Speaker  13:33
First of all, you know, in terms of bases in Mozambique, it's true that people have gone through Mozambique as a transit area. But it's not true that we've had any basis inside Mozambique. In fact, if we were to say, to characterize the residences of AnC cadre in Mozambique as a military bases, then we could kind of characterize the houses of one and a half million South Africans inside South White South Africans and South South Africa as military bases because there happens to be guns in every day carried by a one and a half million whites inside South Africa. And if ANC people have guns to protect themselves within the within their compounds, and that constitutes a military base, then the regime has to has to be very keen telling us so because then that means that the the the houses of the of the one and a half million whites in South Africa and military bases. However, the the, you know, the signing of the of the courts, as our president said, was for Mozambique, a choice between life and death and they chose life which we would all recommend would never recommend that our companies commit suicide. national suicide, however,

Unknown Speaker  14:55
explain a little bit more about that. In other words, what was life and death situation,

Unknown Speaker  15:02
the the economy inside inside the country in Mozambique had been destroyed by elements that were trained and supported by the South African regime and the South African regime. Using the pretext that they were ANC bases and this issue of hot pursuit and attacking Mozambique on very many occasions to the point where they economy was being sabotaged, and the drought inside Mozambique itself did not help as a natural phenomenon. And therefore, there have been many problems that the the Mozambicans could not afford to be carrying on a wall and spending much of their budget on war, when the people of Mozambique themselves were starving because of the drought and because of the of the economic destabilization and sabotage by the South African regime. So in that sense, they chose life instead of death. And, you know, in terms of the people of South Africa, there's an interesting quote that came from the newspapers in South Africa. The people are saying, when the New York Times this route is that the people are saying, well, you know, why, why South Africa is so willing to talk to some other mashallah player leader, and he's not willing at all inside its borders, to talk with Nelson Mandela, in South Africa. And this is, in fact, he's saying that the people are saying that the issue is not outside the issue is inside South Africa and South Africa, is getting the issue is not dealing with the issue that it really has to deal with inside South Africa. And in fact, we have seen we are, we are going to see an even more why greater awakening amongst our people, in terms of the struggle and we are going to see more consolidation, as our president said that this is a clarion call, it is a challenge to us inside South Africa, to consolidate ourselves into fight harder to to to mobilize the people as this is the women to mobilize worker women as workers and to mobilize them into the struggle into the military wing Umkhonto we Sizwe into two. To to to, to face up to the challenge that the pores have put into us, and to also make sure that the international community is very clear on this issue, that the issue of apartheid is the issue in South Africa, that without a party, if there would be no, there wouldn't be there would be no state of war and no stage of destabilization because the destabilizing force in South Africa itself because of its racist apartheid system, which all of Africa is opposed to, and will remain opposed to whether there are agreements signed or not. Because that is that is the issue. And as the OAU has also said, as our president Oliver Tambo said that is that is the issue that we have to fight. And that is the only thing that would bring peace to South Africa to Southern Africa. And Africa as a whole, is the total overthrow of the South African regime. And we remain committed to that. And when we we see that the challenge before us is bigger is that it has been raised to higher levels, and that we are capable of raising our struggle to higher levels and, and we have shown that we can do so in the past few weeks, where we have seen a few incidences of controversies making me could making it sell felt within the country in spite of the fact that they see that they have closed down our bases because we had no basis in Mozambique.

Unknown Speaker  19:06
Switching to another another subject here is a large majority of African women organized in South Africa.

Unknown Speaker  19:17
They have no choice but to be organized because you know, the majority of our women are in the Bantu stands. And the vv oppression in South Africans is felt throughout these constant the hunger that people experience. The disease that people are experiencing the bantustans is nothing but a result direct result of the apartheid laws. And our people know that they know that they dispossessed people, they disenfranchised people, and most of them are people that have been deported from the urban areas into the into the rural areas. Most of the most of the officers have population now in the bantustan sister population of people that have been uprooted from the from the urban areas, into the into into the rural areas. And even if they have been living in the rural areas women have always understood, as you know, we have seen if since 1980, that spirit has not died, the spirit of medieval peasant women were united together with their, you know, educated sisters and people living in the urban areas to to fight apart, that spirit has not died because apart it has not gone away. So the, as long as the issue remains, the spirit of the people will remain the same. And that is me strengthening our party. Therefore, we must also strengthen our outfit, our counter offensive against the system is badly. And that is what is happening amongst the women in rural areas. In fact, you know, women are joining more and more into workers movement. They're joining more and more the community organizations that women's groups being started self help groups, and in such in such groups and infected, you know, the status of the United Democratic Front has, in fact prompted even more community involvement. That is anti apartheid. And so we see this as a grow growth for the movement. And you see this strengthening the moment because women have always played a very strong role as a catalyst. And as, as leaders, most of the time in the struggle we already perishing is concerned.

Unknown Speaker  21:44
And the white woman who was in the film and she unusual in South Africa, are there other white women who are actually joining the struggle?

Unknown Speaker  21:54
Helen, Joseph is a great and I mean, you know, she's a woman of great strength. She's not necessarily very unusual. We've had women like Ruth first who was killed in Mozambique by the South African regime, which sent her a letter poem. In Mozambique, where she was teaching, she was a scholar, and worked with the New Age, which was a very progressive newspaper in South Africa in the road Capias lead on the issue of a birthdate and served I think, 117 days in prison, and she wrote his book on that. And we know we have other women, white women that I in this struggle,

Unknown Speaker  22:42
see, because No, I mean, is it a concern of many white women in South Africa in terms of their own freedom?

Unknown Speaker  22:52
It seems that the women's struggle in South Africa is really the one that hit pioneered interracial interracial work, the Federation of South African women was a very large movement. And it had a lot of, you know, members that were not black, and we're either white, or in these, these were said to be communists, by the white regime. So when in 1950, you know, they banned the Communist Party, and you put it under all sorts of restrictions. We, you know, some women were intimidated and so forth. But still, you know, that the, the strength of the of the, of the bond between our black and white sisters has been very strong to the, you know, to the point where we can, we can say that the women's movement in the Federation of South African women in South Africa has really played a pioneering role in performance in showing and leading the people to a struggle that is both for for equal rights women, but a struggle that is not divorced from the struggle of black liberation scribes

Unknown Speaker  24:27
Polaroid and IBM form in the past knows, you know, that the Polaroid takes the pictures, and IBM catalogs, the data and that kind of thing. And there

Unknown Speaker  24:38
is information right now with American companies offering technical assistance to the military in South Africa. You know, with all your computer machinery is being used for the military and tell me which country is fighting South Africa, South Africa is not fighting any country outside this an internal thing held by out by outside forces. So I unfortunately don't have the company's names right now here. But one thing that you might need to realize is that the United States is a late comer to South Africa. We were colonized by the Portuguese, we explore us, and then then the Germans and the French. And then the British fought them. And we became a colony and all of that, because they didn't have. Exactly. And so we were, under the British as a colony, emerged as a tiny island hoarding and capturing people. But what what was I going to say? Your question on

Unknown Speaker  25:47
the involvement of foreigners in

Unknown Speaker  25:49
Yeah, yeah, what I was trying to share was, so obviously, these countries that have been in South Africa for a longer period, have their companies, German companies, Italian, British, French, Flemish, you name them. But do you know that United States, even though it's a light, late comer, to South Africa, has over 300 companies operating in South Africa, I can't claim to be a democracy that upholds justice, you know, and they're all milking us, our own nation. And I speak as a committed Christian, a trained minister of the church with a master's degree in divinity, that I cannot compromise with evil, I cannot compromise with injustice anywhere, and where there is selfishness anywhere in the world or racism, I have to speak out. And that's what my religious conviction stands for. And you cannot be a religious person, if you thrive on misery of other people, or the ignorance of other people, on the powerlessness of other people on the prejudice. So anybody in this country who claims to be religious, and does nothing against injustice in this country and everywhere, is a full is a hypocrite.

Unknown Speaker  27:10
Okay, your your, your divinity student in Christianity? Yes, I am. How do you feel about that, since it was missionaries who helped who helped in colonize Africa in the first place?

Unknown Speaker  27:25
Now, first and foremost, we have to recognize that the Christian faith is far more African Asian than Caucasian. And this is what the Western world does not project. Yes, this is the effect we have right now to living Popes. Do you know that? Yes, there is Pope Shinoda, the third of the Coptic Church. And the Times magazine of 19 8080 stated that the Coptic Church was the oldest, not old or older, but the oldest, living, organized Christian community in the world. And just founded by St. Mark who is in the Bible in the first century. You know, we forget that African mess about it. We forget that even when Jesus was born after was presented the tape to the temple, and his life was threatened of all the countries in the world, the only safe place for Mary and Joseph Baby Jesus was in Africa, they fled to Egypt, which is not in the Middle East. But in Africa. Even the only human being carry the cross of Christ was a black man. So the white people who are late converts to the Christian faith, come across projecting themselves as the bearers of the good news. And they have misused it to exploit people. They to to exploit to exploit people. And they have used religion, to make people to be docile, to be seen now, to be concerned about the world hereafter, when they are involved in the here and now. And so our My point is,

Unknown Speaker  29:07
Christianity that that helped colonize Africa and not Christianity itself,

Unknown Speaker  29:13
the misuse. And if you look at the history of that faith, you find that anybody who claims to be a Christian was supposed to be non sexist, non racist, and communal, in resources, in gifts. So that's the fallacy of the Western world, they cannot claim to be Christians. So Africans have always been religious people long before the white people were even civilized. We've always believed in one supreme god, and we have a right to choose what ever faith we want to embrace as individuals. So that's where I stand and that's why I chose but I am an eclectic. I do not put down other faiths, nor do I have any problems people don't have V in fact I get along much better with people who don't profess the faith because I'm not so bigoted as the religious people who are largely responsible for the violence throughout the world