Unknown Speaker  00:00
National Women's Political Caucus, the National Urban League, the National Organization for Women, the United Nations Association of the United States and as vice president of Americans for democratic action, but Abzug founded women, USA, a non member organization, which serves as an information and Action Network on women's issues and serves as the organization's president today. It is a very great pleasure indeed, for me to welcome Bella Abzug to Barnard and to introduce her to you now as our opening speaker Bella Abzug.

Unknown Speaker  00:48
Thank you very much. I'm very honored to be asked to speak at such a formidable conference called Women and resistance. Because after all, resistance is a tough word. And I suppose we need more of it. I just was in California, and I saw a very interesting bumper sticker, which I suppose maybe some of you have seen, but I haven't. And it sort of startled me, because it said, women who seek equality with men lack ambition. Well, anyhow, I I've been thinking about are BORN AGAIN women's movement, which started in the late 60s in the 70s. And in connection with what I feel is an enormous response and resistance of women to Reaganism

Unknown Speaker  01:50
of people who are outside of the political power structure, namely minorities and women, young people and the elderly people, men, calibre and I whom many of you know, decided that we had been doing a lot of work on the gender gap, and that we would put it into a book, and so that we be able to use it to mobilize people in this election year, to conduct one kind of important resistance. And the reason that we decided to do this was that as we examined every aspect of American life, and we look backwards and forwards, and observe that women had at least an explosion of needs, and self discovery and new insights of the personal and social relationships, which had put an enormous pressure on society and its institutions. And yet there was a failure to respond to the needs that we had. That though we recognized that what we required on the legal front was, for example, the repeal of 1000s of old repressive laws, and passage of new laws and programs. Wrapping it all up in the adoption of equal rights amendment to give women a constitutional right of equality. We noticed that those who controlled power resisted our demand for the Equal Rights Amendment, though it was won in the hearts and minds of the American people, it was resisted by those at the top of the economic ladder. And in those in my opinion at the top of the political ladder, who's benefited is to maintain the status quo, and to resist the demand that women have to change the nature of the power structure that change the nature of economic structure, so that it can absorb the demands of a majority of the people who have largely been used by the power structure to take care of its needs, namely the power structures rather than that of women. And so we came to understand that there had to be something said about why there was a response on the part of women which was a little different than the response that had been before the working mother who needed quality childcare for preschoolers, and income tax deductions for childcare and household services. The middle class housewife, who had stifled her own abilities and ambitions to wait on her husband needed educational opportunities to start her own Korea. The poor woman who had to go on welfare to support her children also needed low cost are free childcare centers and job training as her escape route to self respect and independence. And the young woman who had suffered the painful indignity of a back alley abortion, as well as the Native American woman on the reservation. And the black woman in a slum who had been forcibly sterilized wanted the removal of laws that prevented them from choosing when and if to have a child, the minority woman at the bottom of the economic ladder, the underpaid factory worker drudging away to a dead end job and the junior executive or college instructor, who had been passed over for deserved promotion that went to a less qualified male colleague wanted affirmative action programs and other legal remedies against job and pay discrimination. The student who in the old days had to choose between being a secretary nurse or teacher wanted the legal opportunity to become an old electrician, truck driver, engineer, doctor, lawyer, astronaut and the aging woman whose husband had divorced her for a younger woman wanted guaranteed Social Security in her own name and the struggling business woman wanted access to credit and loans. The victim of wife beating wanted a place where she and her children could take shelter. The Lesbian wanted the repeal of laws that threatened her with arrest for private sexual preferences and an end to discriminatory practices that threatened her with loss of job apartment or child custody. The rape woman wanted the right to a trial of her assailant in which he was not made to feel like a criminal and the lawyer political volunteer here would always helped elect men to Office felt it was time to get herself and other women elected to positions of power and responsibility. Well, what has been the reaction of the male power structure to all of these demands, which are the growing process of where women are in society today? Over and over, I've seen our government leaders and political parties obstruct and operate in ways contrary to what people want it to our rejection of our needs and our concerns, was also a manipulation of the power structure to continue to oppress not only women but men in this country, overflowing boundaries to other countries. President Lyndon Johnson elected in 64, on a pledge of no wider war, escalating the war and in the China, the horrendous dimensions. Chicago Mayor Richard Delhi's police viciously beating up 1000s of hundreds of men, women and young people trying to make the 68 Democratic Party convention respond to their piece of the bans against the war in Vietnam. President Nixon ordering the secret bombing of Cambodia and covering up his Watergate scandal, President Ford issuing the unpardonable pardon to Mr. Nixon, President Jimmy Carter, backing out on his commitments to women and arms reductions. The Republican Party abandoning its historic support for the era, President Reagan giving still more to the rich, Peggy from women children on the poor, and declaring that he was prepared to send us troops anywhere on this earth. And members of Congress craving the going along with the big budget slashes unnecessary social programs, male controlled state legislatures, blocking debate and votes on the era and saw the response. The resistance to this description of where we are has been in my opinion. Ironically, the failure of our system to acknowledge the legitimate aspirations of women and minorities is resulting in a renewed commitment to a struggle of resistance and a new renewed commitment to the struggle for equality and economic justice. There is today a very interesting development in which the vast majority of Americans are pointing dramatically to the need for new political leadership. In my judgment, its directions will not emerge without the involvement and the ideas and the leadership of women and minorities whose suppression obstructs America's further development into a thinking caring society capable of living in peace, peace, and pursuing economic justice. I think that this is the explanation in a certain way of the phenomenon that has come to be called the gender gap. Or we've come a long way since the 19th century in which they thought our brains were small. And therefore, we had to use all of our efforts and energies in our bloodstream for the purpose of childbearing and couldn't be diverted in any other way. Finally, we did get the vote. And we did accomplish some interesting things. But essentially, it was never thought that there was something independent individual or special, or even just human, about the way in which women felt and the way women responded to issues. So the gender gap, which was first observed, I think, critically or analytically in the 1900 made the elections whence 8% fewer women voted for Mr. Reagan than men did was actually a response to have women across the board. The women that I mentioned in my description, and those that I may not have mentioned, the working woman, the homemaker, the young the old. Women have different backgrounds, of different ethnicity, religions and races of different sexual preference. Women was saying and looking at society and saying, Well, I've asked you, I've negotiated with you, I've picketed you, I have voted for you. I have pleaded with you, I have compromised with you, I have negotiated with you, I've even prayed, and nothing has responded. And so I am not saying to you, for the first time in the history of this country. A majority of women are saying that we are at odds with almost every single policy of government, which excludes us which discriminates against us, which annihilates us and ultimately is going to result in destroying not only us but the total part of humanity of which we are abroad. That Gender Gap, in my opinion, rests on many different things. It was set in 19 180, by the way, where 6 million more women voted than men for the first time that women voted less for Mr. Reagan because of his opposition to the era. And because they thought he was trigger happy and what got us into war. And I didn't have an ad to it was said that when women chose candidates based upon a series of gender gap issues, which include war, peace issues, equality, economic justice, environment, and so on, that it was because they were distressed with the economic status of the country at that time. Whatever it is, the gender gap showed itself then to be very strong in the election of any number of candidates, including three governors, Michigan, Texas, and our own governor, because those men took positions in their campaigns, which was supportive of women's economic, social, cultural and political needs. It has been said that this is just something which people are doing because they don't like Mr. Reagan. Of course, they don't like Mr. Reagan, and women especially don't like Mr. Reagan, they are more disapproving of his foreign policy and his economic policies. His attack upon affirmative action is attack upon era is attack upon

Unknown Speaker  11:16
abortion than men are because they are directly affected. People are asking me over and over how come I say how come and I realized a series of events that you and I have been participating in for many years. And I've shown that the power structure has stubbornly for selfish and good reasons insisted on maintaining the status quo in the face of what is almost a revolutionary change in the condition of the lives of women, and the lives of men and women affected by it on this particular in this country. And so, at the moment, the Democratic Party, and this is something you should know, because I know among you are many who are not particularly interested in participating in the party politics as we know it in this country. But at the moment, the Democratic Party happens to be the beneficiary of the gender gap votes, more women are taking on the Democratic Party because they believe that through that vehicle, women and minorities in particular, can at least have the accomplishment of some of their policies effectuated, or at least can hold the repression against them that is so steadfast and consistent under this president administration, with the unfortunate bipartisan concurrence of many people in the Congress of the United States. But it doesn't belong to the Democratic Party that gender grab it. It merely deals with the fact that at this moment, the women's vote, which is a thoughtful one, and reflects the values of what many of us in the women's movement have sought to bring into the American land landscape, it's largely based on what the candidates position is on important policy matters. So if you're a Democrat, and you're a big military spender, or a war hawk, and your favorite cutting domestic programs, such as job training, or Equal Employment Opportunities, or family planning a socialist Social Security, or pollution control, or oppose the era of the right to reproductive freedom, obviously, you will not be the beneficiary of that vote. And so while everybody is pondering the meaning, and the long term meaning of the newly emerging electoral gap, those of us who are concerned in this with struggles each day, recognize that we have several gender gaps, not only the way women are demonstrating their behavior and political attitudes, who their vote in opinion polls, but we have a gender gap, which is very deep in the power structure of this country, that women are a majority of the population, we still hold on a small percentage of elective and appointive offices. We have 22 out of 435 women in the house, two out of 100 in the Senate, in fact, in the history of this nation, have 10,957 people who have served in the Congress of the United States, only 116 of them have been women. This is an interesting thing, because I feel that it's quite interesting to me that all of us, including people in the women's movement and minority movements in this country, particularly those who have not had power, have not always been convinced that the way in which we could create change would be through actually securing representation in the power structure itself. I think that the candidacy of Jesse Jackson reflects something of a change in that direction and in the minds of many other people, because we are in essentially with that candidacy on the eve of an electoral rebellion. That is a statement that the presidency of this country can no longer be considered anymore. The sole white male, American preserve that it has been to date. The fact that we are considering seriously the ways in which we can involve a woman as vice president indicates that the The presidency and the vice presidency are the question of the power structure and who governs in it can no longer be considered the white male preserve, it has been until now. And I think that's important for all of us in the movement, for change, all of us in the peace movement, all of us in the civil rights movement, all of us in the movement of women in this country, all of those in the movement of justice in this country, because I believe that the women's vote, though, is in the minds of many a very reformist manner and method of attacking our deep problems, is nevertheless, a method that is essential at this time, in order to oust from public office, the most serious ideological Neanderthal this country has ever placed in the presidency.

Unknown Speaker  15:56
And so as long as we shun the political power structure, and say, It's not ours, it belongs to the patriarchy, then we are remissed.

Unknown Speaker  16:07
Because it is our responsibility to reform the political power structure, if necessary to take over the political power structure to make it reflect the will of the majority of the Americans in this country. And only by participating in that struggle, can we add that unnecessary dimension, it seems to me to the processes that all of us are involved in, whether it's our educational process of academics, or whether it's our activist processes, activists, we have to also become political activists that are prepared to challenge the structure from outside as well as from inside, as one who has worked as one who has worked in both places, as one who came into political the power structure and into the establishment from the movements of change from the peace movement from the civil rights movement, as well as from the feminist movement, I can tell you, that the placement of women into the political power structure, the placement of anomalies in the political power structure is a very important path to empowerment, which we can no longer afford to ignore. And we must become part and parcel of that mighty effort to register as many votes as we can, of the disenfranchised, to register as many votes as we can have the alienated to get the issues before all of these people that deal with the fact that the issues that they concern themselves with cannot be changed, unless we have some power in the power structure, as well as power from the outside that continue to mold and seek a new form of political process and a new form of political structure that will make a fundamental difference in our lives. And therefore, we have to become part of that struggle in 1900 94. Because 19 184, may well become a watershed year for American women, and minorities in this country. I think it's important to recognize that when we're confronting an administration, that during its period of time, as seen 5 million more people sink into poverty, as seen a condition in which 16 times rather 20% of the children now live in households with incomes below 125% of the poverty level, then we have to begin to take charge. What is the gender gap, the gender gap is American women saying I didn't make any of these policies. I didn't make the arms race, I didn't create this blasted bloated military budget. I don't approve of cutting the social programs. I don't have the power and the power structure to make those policies. But I have the power to use a very fundamental right, which I'm now going to use because I believe I am sovereign, I have the sovereign power. And that is to use my vote to change those policies that I absolutely reject. And that don't suit me don't suit my friends don't suit my family don't suit my parents, and in our opinion, don't suit all of America. Women are a majority of Americans. And for the first time in history, they are odds with the government on almost every important issue of foreign and domestic policy. Through the phenomenon of the gender gap. American women are telling our male rulers that they're making the wrong choices. It's a message meant not only for the president occupants of the White House and the Congress, but for both major parties. And for those who help hope to lead this nation in the years to come. I said before 1984 It could be a watershed year in American political history, because I think it marks the first time that women through their voting power and their numbers and their organized strength. Well may not have a president who was a woman in the White House, but women could well decide who will be the next President of the United States. Which party will control the Congress who will reside in the governor's mansions across this nation, and who will serve in our state legislatures and who will fail 1000s of elective posts at the top city, county and state levels. I think that whether or not The gender gap is identified as a pro era or pro peace vote, or whether it's regarded as a vote by professional working women mostly over age 30, or a vote by single divorced poor and minority women, and economic self interest wrote or a vulnerability vote by women who perceived themselves as disadvantaged or vulnerable minorities, like dependent on the goodwill of the male power structure, no matter what the theory is no one theory in my opinion explains the gender gap phenomenon, because American women are a diverse group. And certain factors may have more influence on some than on others. Compassion, a yearning for peace. Concern about the environment, the desire for economic security and equality is shared by most women. But the degree to which a particular factor motivates a particular woman or group of women may vary. And so I believe that women will be voting in coalition with other powerful anti Reagan forces, environmentalists, blacks, Hispanics, other minorities, union members, working people, the poor and unemployed, gay and lesbians, young people who feel alienated in many ways today, business people, small business, people who've lost their business to the high interest rates, farmers whose farms have been foreclosed for the same reasons, can expect to give a majority of their votes to the Democratic presidential candidate. Many of these constituency overlap, and women appear in all of them. But I believe that in 19 184,

Unknown Speaker  21:30
there will be at least 9 million more women voting than men. And I believe that those numbers are very crucial. It's true that one out of three eligible Williams women did not bother to register in 1980. And that adds up to 27 point 3 million women who threw away a once in a four year opportunity to have a voice and running this country. Psalm 55 point 7 million did register, but 6.4 million of them did not follow up by actual voting. According to the census bureau, 49 point 3 million voted, but 33 point 7 million did not the same thing exists with respect to minorities in this country, we have already seen an enormous increase in the votes of minorities in the primaries. The turnout, for example, in New York increased by 103%. among minorities among the blacks in this in this state, as I travel across the country, promoting my book, of course, but also using it as an opportunity to mobilize and organize people to get involved to register to vote, to mobilize to project the major issues of our deep concerns, I find that there is a greater enthusiasm among young people, especially who for a long time, despite the fact that we fought very hard to get the right to vote for the 18 year olds, as against the 21 year olds, because we didn't think that a Congress had a right to send them to war without their having a right to participate in that decision of becoming aware of becoming concerned, are becoming a little bit more aggravated over the possibility of once again, their self interest becoming involved. The mining of a harvest in Nicaragua, the withdrawal of the jurisdiction of the world caught from the United States has shook up a lot of people in this country. Not only that people like you and me, but the people in the power structure, who until now have been spineless, have been lacking courage have gone along with both economic and foreign policy issues, supported and run by Mr. Reagan, which are destined to dislocate the future in this country in the future of the world. Finally, the response in the Congress itself, by the way, not with a lot of outside pressure, I may end and I question and ask those people who are still very cynical about the political power structure and the process of sovereign voting and so on. Well, where is the major demonstration? Where is the major pressure being put upon the power structure to resist the callous, unconcerned, and the ideological backwardness of President Reagan? Well, I was surprised to find that I got an immediate response from the Senate floor, because that has never happened so fast before in the history of this administration. The fact that there is a bipartisan resistance to the policies of Mr. Reagan, which are out of hand, should encourage those of us who are somewhat ahead of where I hope the Senate and the House of Representatives are, to make it our responsibility, the Cedarwood that the next steps are taken, that we are demanding of the Congress of the Senate in the house, that they withdraw all military support from the energies that are being a directed against the people's struggle for self determination and the people's struggle for poverty and justice and Central America.

Unknown Speaker  25:00
Let me tell you something interesting as a person who has been with many of you in the movements for change, as well as in the power structure, there is no time, like a time of choosing a president, at the time of electing a Congress and state legislatures to be able to project the issues that you care about, this is the best time to come out of the classrooms, those of you are academics, and get into the streets with the leaflets and get into the supermarkets and get into the city halls and the state houses and the Congress of the United States, and begin projecting issues that we want to see represented in this country where every institution is supposed to belong to the people of the United States, not to those who control the power structure, who do it to some extent, with our support, by our withdrawal by our abdication. And this is the time when we have to come forward, use the process of whichever way we can get ourselves to, if you can get yourself to register and vote fine. If you can't do that, at least join the troops that are educating those to move in that direction, so that we can really get something done. I plead with you because you know, as well as I, that the nuclear attack clock is ticking away, you know, as well as I that the doomsday can take place, unless we stop those who are at the top of the power structure from going so far to satisfy their own gregariousness, their own greed, that they're prepared to sacrifice and destroy this planet if necessary, we have got to stop that. And we can stop that by showing that we are unified and detained demand to end the nuclear arms race, a nuclear freeze, yes. But more than that, negotiations with the Soviet Union, to create the kind of nuclear arms reductions, and finally, general and complete disarmament so that we can settle disputes on this earth. So that we can settle disputes on the thirst of civilized human beings instead of his war machines, that all superpowers have got to recognize that what is at stake is we the people, and we the people demand a right to live in love, because we love life. And that's where we want it.

Unknown Speaker  27:20
Well, Reagan would not have been elected. If one out of every 20 people that voted for him stayed home. He would have lost if just 881,743 voters and 16 states had decided to cast their ballots for Carter instead, a tough choice, I know. But it was a choice. It was a choice. Even I will get fired by him voted for him. Because I know what the difference was. Just the other day, when we were discussing this thing, just the other day when we were discussing this thing, Martin said Martin Martin, my husband said I still can't get over the fact Bella that you got fired from a non paying job. But the fact is, the fact is that just if just 1% of all those who voted nationally switched, requiring a switch of only 4666 votes in each of the congressional districts and those 16 key states, we would have had a different president. Now, it's very true that in some cases, people feel that know, when we're 21st, we are being constrained with a president who from the White House is using this as a pulpit of Troy, some of the fundamental diversity, separation of church and state, a man who after the first day after the State of the Union address, went to talk to the electronic preaches to constitutional rights of the bond, as he was daily, attacking the rights of human beings to participate in the vast resources of this nation, which is the richest nation on this world of cool in this world. Of course, there's an anomaly to all of this, which is pretty shocking, that they're fighting for a constitutional amendment to declare unborn, the unborn fetus persons and they are raising a very serious conflict of laws by this issue, what's gonna happen if they should win this amendment for a constitutional right to declare the fetus unborn and then when you become born, and you happen to be a little girl, you no longer become a person, because we're not yet persons under the Constitution.

Unknown Speaker  29:53
So I just wanted to say here, that the Democrats would have won if more women and blacks and Hispanics had voted in key states, those of us that were involved in these movements have to understand what that means. Reagan's plurality in the 10 largest states was less than the number of all non voting, white women in the each of those states and less than the number of non voting black men and women in Michigan, New York and California, and less than the number of non voting Hispanic women and men in California, in New York and Texas, this is an important message. It's an important message not only because of the 1984 presidential election, but it's an important message to bring our message forth, if we could make that much difference. And we are talking about a million and a half registration, or 1,000,007 of more women, and about a million more blacks in this country, and about a half a million more Hispanics, in order to make sure that we can determine the defeat of Mr. Regan. And that's why if we want to project essentially, what our differences are, what our issues are, that we have got to get involved in this fight, and various ways in which to do what I'm not going to have the time to do here today. But you know, what the coalition is, you know, there are many different groups working on registration in this state. In this city, there's the usual organizations plus additional ones, like human serve, like women, USA, like a statewide coalition, of course, the black and Hispanic groups that have been working consistently. And there's a way in which all can be involved in that, in fact, the way we analyze it in our book, ma'am, and I, you have to read the book in order to get the details. But anyhow, we got some here, you know. But anyhow, we figured that, that would that we're going to beat Mr. Reagan, we have a chapter on that in our book called power poles, and that, oh, this whole coalition will be responsible for it. But basically, he will be defeated, with a gender gap which women provide as they are beginning to provide. Now I know very well, that in his of the United States, throughout its history has been marked by conflict between classes and social groups, between male rule and female subordination, between those who would reserve power only for a moneyed elite. And those who say democracy must be shared by all of the people. Today, those of us who place humane, predominantly feminist values and democratic rights in the foreground are being attacked by Reagan Republicans for offering what they've got a cure as old ideas. In fact, even some of our Democrats, even one running for president sometimes suggest that. But eating every day, having work, shelter, clothing, education and health care, are ideas that will never go out of style, no matter how much the heads of corporations hope that robots will replace human beings, and that women and minorities will meekly continue to accept inferior status and lower wages. And so I'm suggesting to you that both parties require our participation. I have not come here to make a positive speech. I came here to make a non partisan speech to defeat Mr. Reagan, because I happen to believe that it's Reagan republicanism, that both Republicans and Democrats and independents and socialists and people of all points of view, have an enormous responsibility to fight against our resistance must be upon the continuation of that kind of administration, which reflects power for those who are the corporate military controllers of our society for you, and then $5 billion military budget $200 billion deficit, seven $50 billion given to the rich withdrawn from the treasury, in the Reagan tax program, so that when you earn a salary of over 10,000, on the $10,000 a year, you have paid for Reaganomics by getting minus $320 in your salary each year, or if you've earned over $80,000, then you will get at least $9,000 Out of the taxpayers buck in this country. That kind of inequity, that kind of disparity. All right, that's got to be changed, you can do it.

Unknown Speaker  34:11
I don't believe that the Democratic Party is itself is not is also free of of the responsibility. I believe it has allowed the boundaries of national debate to move to the right, while millions of Americans who provide the base of support for the Democrats are moving in the other direction. But your participation in this more deeply, can demonstrate that and can prove that you can prove as I believe we already have in the Democratic primary. I want you to hear this, that the people voting in the Democratic Party have essentially resisted and rejected the more conservative candidates. They have said we don't want a conservative like Glenn. They have said we don't want a more conservative like Hollings. They have chosen the three candidates. That Davey got the beat the most liberal that was Available in the field. And so what I want you to do as a woman's movement, and particularly those of you who regard yourself as as part of the women's political movement is not to continue to underestimate our strength. that failing is the legacy of the past and of traditions that have taught women to speak softly, that is some of us and carry a lipstick. Rather than to assert our needs and make demands. The time has come. For us to increase our tactic. I know voting doesn't sound like a very exciting tactic. But I think with a big vote, with a vote of women with shows moving in across lines, that is, not every woman is in the gender gap. But it crosses lines of homemakers and working people. It crosses partisan lines. It crosses people of different age groups, it crosses people have different points of view, so that I believe our tactics, even as to what our vote can mean, have often been marked by timidity and self deprecation. I mean, even now, in discussing possible women candidates for the vice presidency, most women leaders feel that only super women can be proposed as leaders of our country. They keep saying we've got to be sure we have a qualified woman running for vice president or for president when we run one, which will be before this century is over. But the fact is, we've supported a lot of unqualified men for office, and for President and for vice president. But we are prepared to be qualified, we are prepared to be qualified. Now the interesting thing about the gender gap, I get this question all the time, and I'd like to sort of share it with you. They say to me, what is this a war between the sexes Bella? Well, I say it's not a war between the sexes. manner in all polls, and in many ways have shown their willingness to support women's quest for equality on the more narrowly defined women's issues, but seem much less willing to examine critically the premises of society and governmental decisions in the same way that women are unafraid to do. So as long as male voters continue to accept and defend the status quo, there will continue to be a gender gap. That voting as I said before, and opinion gap does not reflect the views of all women. But its breadth and depth is unquestionable. I happen to believe that eventually, the different thinking of women will register in the consciousness of men as well. And then the gap will narrow. I look forward to that day. In the meantime, I think we have to look forward to a different vision. And I'll tell you what that is. That vision is as follows. 1984 is not yet the year of Big Brother in our land, but it can be the year of big sister. Not an Orwellian counter image of totalitarian madness, but an ordinary woman with a democratic vision and a sense of her own political potential, holding an olive branch in one hand, and pulling down a lever and a green curtain voting booth with the other. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker  38:09
That film, I haven't seen it, because I hear rather concerned film, but after the film, and we'll hear a few words from Holly Poole, in Chicago, who is a woman who has been very active for a number of years in the anti apartheid activities and has in fact, been one of the prime organizers of resistance movement in the 50s to the pass laws, and she will talk a little bit about film. So people can kind of hold questions to them. My enviable rant, by the way on moderating part of that history. I think our next couple of speakers will make that that point even clearer, our first speaker is not valuable. The tobacco, who was involved in this struggle that we just seen the film about, I'm sure will give us some insightful words about how that struggle unfolded and some of the implications for us. She's one of the founders of the Women's Federation of South Africa has been very active in the Women's League of the African National Congress of South Africa. So a lot of

Unknown Speaker  39:33
good morning. Could we spend one minute ventilating the seats? will be a better idea, just mentally. See your next deal Good thank you I have here a suggestion of my African costume. Because in South Africa, we do not have been. And when Caucasians came to my motherland, you know, they came and made us despise our own national costume. And in order to survive, we had to become a similar dose. And in the process, we have to adopt some of the white Long's. And so we have lost much of our African costume. And this is part of my heritage, which comes from an independent country of Swaziland, because part of our heritage is Swasey. And this good I have here is based on the liberation colors of my people, which is black on top, which means the black people, and then green for the Motherland, and gold for the wealth of the country. And these colors when I put like this image, that declared illegal in South Africa, again, when you saw the film here, for me, it wells up a lot of anger, a lot of hatred, because not only were we dealing with a pest issue, we were dealing with a whole political system. First, it is the arrogance of Europeans who go to other countries to dictate what kind of lifestyle they have to live, take advantage of the ignorance of the people hold their possessions and use violence against them. I mean, if you know India is for the Indians, and Britain is for the British, you know, and you know, Japan is for the Japanese, why can Africans rule in Africa? What's wrong with it. But we have the laws in South Africa that determine that whites who have lived there for two to 300 years are more African than I am. And so we tolerate them in the Western world, because it does have material and economic benefits. And that's the primary thing people don't matter in the 50s. They will did the let me start from 1949. And the African National Congress, which is a mass liberation movement,

Unknown Speaker  42:36
decided on a program of action, it was called the problem of action of 1949. Because prior to that, we were making pleadings were making premium or we were making we haven't consultations, will have prayer vigils hope appealing to the conscience of our oppressors, hoping that they may change where we are, despise the dispossessed. We're trying to be very civil, and very polite, but there were no changes. So from those, and we started also having techniques of staying away from what because they needed the labor to keep the economy going. Even then, you know, we're harassed, we lost jobs, and they were not directly impacted in any way. So in 1949, after the most reactionary racist, White came into power, with the connivance of the Western world, the the must liberation movement, which is the African National Congress, decided to have a program of action, we will move from just simple vigil to challenge the system. And that program of action was really engineered by many young people. It was during the time when I became a member of the of the African National Congress. And that was on the second of February in 1949. I have always been a member of the liberation movement, I have changed my strategy is several times but I've never changed my commitment. Even though the organization was outlawed. You can never outlaw it in the lives and hearts of people. And this is where I stand is what I live for. And up to now I am still in the struggle and women of the time where regardless powerless people you know, they came up together and they recognized the importance of having coalition's and I think what are the things that are very important that are needed even in the United States today to realize the importance of coalition's right now, even during this crisis are going through in this country. There are some people who do not want to be involved in changing the setup of this country or even making an impact On the coming elections, because some say that we are Marxist revolutionaries, who are just socialists, you know, oh, we are just you have nothing to do. The Democrats and the Republicans are the same, so won't do anything, in the end these divisive forces that make it more and more possible for the most reactionary to continue to be in this country. Now, and this is why I feel maybe the answer of what the women have done, who are more power less than you are, you know, so the importance of coalition's and working together. But again, we as the black women had our own organization, which was

Unknown Speaker  45:39
under the mass liberation movement, which is the ANC. So we have what was called the Women's League. Now we have full membership in the general organization, which is the ANC initiative for African National Congress. So you become a member first, and then you can become a member of the Women's League. So the Women's League was a women's section, where we carried our own unique programs that were in compliance with a national body, we were dealing with other issues that are affecting us as women. But our main goal was not so much on our problems as women, it was mass liberation of the people to the general struggle. So even though we have feminist problems, the problems of children and one of the main things that we were oppressed as a nation, and we're not just trying to change, you know, oppression, we wanted to change the whole political system that is based on selfishness on greed, and uses violence and racism, to continue to exploit the people, the powerless people, and to remove the control of its own natural resources to maintain selfish political and economic systems in the capitalist world of the Western world. So that has been our struggle. And this is why sometimes it bothers me when, as we men in this country try to deal with our issues, we divorce ourselves from the general issue, we make maybe our feminist issues primary to the general struggle as a nation, these have to go together at the same time. No, there is not one that is more important that they are. So those who are struggling when the Federation came into power, I had difficulties with with the Federation as they were trying to form it. And I have no qualms with the fact that I had no qualms with the Federation, I still don't have quarrel to the idea of the Federation. But when you form a federation, you expect autonomous organizations to come together and with respect to each other, and have a common program, that black women had their own women's organization just autonomous. It was the African National Women's League, the white women had no women's organization, but they wanted the Federation do we had the people that are called collage at home, which are similar to what Michael mulatos It's an unfortunate term, and I don't care about it. But it's a fact of life that they also did not have a Women's League. They had a political organization in the South African colored people's organization, which is working together with the ANC. The people from Asian background, have their own ethnic political organization, which is the South African Indian Congress, which is waiting to get that with the ANC. But the women's section did not have a women's league. And my idea was from a league of women, and you know, women's organizations to come together with a women's organization and will form a federation. But that did not happen. What happened was individual we will other ethnic groups came and joined with the Women's League to form the Federation of South African women. I did not oppose I was outvoted. But I supported the Federation of South African women. Because the aim was good. The Commonwealth was good, but how it came about was unfortunate. And when you read much of the publication, you won't even see my name. I have been conveniently omitted, but the struggle is still my struggle. There is nothing wrong, nothing wrong with my identity as an African and I want to maintain it and nurture it. So that has been our struggle. I was our effort. And as we went on, facing issues as we were coming on by the oppressor, we had the help and the benefit that were our white comrades had access to the legal system. So we had lawyer's advice, which was very needed in our struggle. Many people in the Indian community, you know, helped us materially they will make generous sacrifice for our struggles. So the struggle was the same, because if we oppose racism, we cannot perpetuate it on our own. And we saw we showed it that our organizations were working together for one common society. And these have been our struggles as people again, we were outlawed when we were.

Unknown Speaker  50:13
Our organizations were outlawed, but it did not stop the struggle going on. Right now, even now, when you get the mission, the liberation movements in from South Africa, operating inside South Africa and outside men and women what to gather for the same goal. But we are also very much aware that just read me, most of the time when that evolution is over. Though men forget the role that women play, they put on leadership roles alone, and exclude women, and many of our issues as women become secondary. And so we have to continue that don't repeat the same mistakes that are done by other organizations and other people in other parts of the world when he struggles with justice. So for us as women, we are concerned about we ourselves as women, because situations are left for us, for the benefit of those who may not know, black people have no vote whatsoever in the central government of South Africa whatsoever. And if you in my shoes, how would you feel if people came from other lands and add a vote to your motherland, and you did not have a good way you are born and brought up? How would you feel. And when we become violent as the press was told, we must not be violent. When the system is violent, and it violates our human rights, we are bound to go into counter violence for Survivor counter violence. And I'm a very religious person I have trained in the ministry, you know, I have my major in ministry. But I am telling you as a devout religious person, that when oppressed people face violence, they have to go into counter violence for Survivor. And if you oppose violence, deal with a source of violence, deal with a source because either is when we deal with a source, there will be no problem with that a loved one we were dealing with was the personal one was the first law, blacks were compelled by white people to carry a document that has been made to be more important than human life. And who has helped in making this document, come into existence, Polaroid and American company, capitalize on the two pictures of us in our oppression, and American company. IBM provided the machinery to keep statistics on us and our movements to make the system of oppression effective, done in your name, and most of the time without your knowledge. But as an American company, they have made capital out of our misery, like right now American people are thriving on my oppression of my people. And when the revolution is over, my friend, let me tell you, and it's very much very close. When the time is over, we are going to determine the availability of our resources in the light of what role did you play as an American, during our struggles for revolution, people all over the world have a right to their own determination, they have a right to their sovereignty. And we find that more and more of the Western powers support oppressors and the oppressed people get support from Cuba, from Western countries. And here we have individuals who help us. And we are not going to wait for these individuals to liberate us no nation can liberate another nation, never ever. But we can be in solidarity with those who struggle for justice. So when we have this workshop, it's not just for information is for you to check what you live for. What are you doing to make things different? Yeah, because your decisions affect us in South Africa. And our decisions in South Africa affect you here? You know, we are going to determine the availability of coal. And some of you may not realize how important Chrome is for your stainless steel, for your cars, for your fridges, for your buildings. And my people we're going to look back to what did you play? You cannot say I did not know. You had the chance of winning. So you're just not just helping the people in South Africa. When you stand for justice, when you support the just just action. It is also for your own self interest. Right now much of your nuclear energy is using nuclear uranium from South Africa, that is taken without our knowledge and approval. So when you have bought a piece

Unknown Speaker  55:12
for for a freeze, you should be involved with what's happened in South Africa know, where are these elements comes from. So we are interrelated. Our destinies are intertwined. And I speak in a language of my oppressor. There are some of you who still are debating the question of whether we should have investments or withdraw. And if we draw, you know that people South Africa will suffer. And we have always suffered, we have always suffered. But now because it hits the white people's pocketbook, suddenly the white string of our plight, put yourself in a time of 90 of the last World War. If you were a Jew. And Jews were coming to entertain the, the Nazi Germans in Germany, how would you feel? If you were a Jew, and Jews were coming to have trade with a German startup press Q as a Jew in the how, how would you feel that this is happening right now. And your big, big shots in politics have avoided talking about South Africa, the cutters the Mondale's that they get Gary hots, you know they have falafel they've avoided it because they do not want to see it also that it's a racist decision. They are just as racist as the old system. But we have to say what's the better there are times in which we live. And this is why I'm saying for us in the 50s is no we're gonna sit down and look at the glories of the past, the struggle is still going on. And we are using whatever is necessary wherever we are with what we have. We will use all fields and many of our people are going through very humiliating experiences, there are tortures that are being meted out to women, where their private parts are pooled with pairs of hires, by those in authority, where some of the chains are still manufactured in this country, sent to the whites in South Africa. Last year, January 2500, electric shock bottles were sent from the United States, to the whites in South Africa. And they were such sensitive military material that they wouldn't be that could not have left this country without the official signature of the President of the United States. And this was done in your name. And my people saying America is going to pay for what they have planted during the 50s late 70s. In 1976. Ordinary school children decided they wanted to be taught in the medium of English in order to keep on with the international communication techniques of the English language. Now that there is supporting the English, the English speaking people know they want it to be taught in the medium of English. And the people that are in color right now suffered so poorly during the Anglo Boer Wars, that when they saw black people saying they want to be taught in English, they saw them as siding with their historical enemies. And what did they do? They shot over 1000 black school children 12 year olds, there are over 1000 throughout the country. I come from Johannesburg. But throughout the country, some of those guns came from America. They were called for the fives from your Hartford political factory. They were smuggled into South Africa. Right now many of those companies are no more sending their supplies to South Africa. But they are producing those armaments in South Africa by license. And we have people supporting Israel. Law during the last World War. The people in power in South Africa were charged with high treason for their pro Nazi activities based upon it. But today, Israel is the number one friend of those people in South Africa. If you are a Jew, you know what sympathy is about a Jew. How do you justify that? And so when you see the growth of anti semitism, he's gonna hate Jews, but he's out easyline Diaz has lost his qualms upon conscience, and it's got a double.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:08
June's lives are not wasted, this country is going to pay for them, because they were in a position of affluence and support, but they chose to stand for justice. And some of them lost their lives. And we have been forgotten. So the struggles of women, it's not just the struggle, the 50s. It's continuing right now. And for how long are we going to struggle? How long am I going to sit and listen to some of the gory entertaining in our reports? Are people believe the violence and struggle? Or is it interesting, isn't it entertaining? When you look at those pictures, these are the actual pictures, where South Africa is the number one gold producer in the whole world. And you have jewelry made of gold, which is a luxury to you. We have white coming from all over the world, some who don't know how to read and write, but because they're Caucasian, they have a vote over me, they have a right to better accommodation. And that cannot be justice in any religious, you know, understanding be it be Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu, or even from a human point of view. So I just wanted to share that the women at that time, were working for themselves as black women struggling and fighting as women. And if they saw themselves as powerful, even though the system made them powerless, compare yourself with the women at that time, even though they were victims of racism. They did not blanket all people with racism, when they saw individuals who stood out stood out for justice. They recognize that as individuals, and we still have the prejudices when we blighted people, we still get graduated. And we didn't have we didn't have PhDs. But just just our commitment to humaneness. And so our struggles today, joint struggles in South Africa, we want to have trade unions. Blacks are not allowed to belong to the same trade unions with whites. And so we can be overworked and underpaid. And we can form our own trade unions as black folks. And whites can have their trade unions that are recognized. But black trade unions have no legal battle power. So what happens, you get more unemployment because your businesses move out of here, run away from the positive trade unions from your higher wages from your higher taxes. And they come where the costs of production are very low, and they maximize their profits. And you are made to pay us as people in the third world are taking your jobs. And we wonder Where are you because if you sincerely for justice, you should not be allowing the mess that is happening to continue. And this is why I'm saying we are people have joint efforts, joints destiny, you are lucky you have got opportunity to go to school. My parents were very poor, very proud. They could only educate me up to the sixth grade. I am self taught. According to statistics of length, and at the all white guy paid $677 a year for the education of a white child for a black child $66. An hour all white children have free and compulsory education. Let's don't all black children have no school lunches. And we see white children in our Motherland having free school lunches can run around the block chasing each other spilling milk on each other's face. Whereas we don't have milk in our own motherland. We are not concerned about the world hereafter. We are concerned about the here and now. And America, I must say, Time is ticking off. It's really taking off not only from South Africa, from all parts of the world where your mineral resources come that maintain your affluence in the time of poverty. We can have your three quarters million people are starving to death. These nations are rising up and the time is gone. Even your Europe European allies are having second thoughts about being allied with America. And I am saying to end off us trying to give a chance for questions and fulfill of my friends to say something I came across a nice poster of a very good movie. That is all and it's not a digression, but I think it'll speak to you given to me by a friend last night and I don't know whether some of you have seen this poster. It's from England. You have seen In the movie bond with the wind.

Unknown Speaker  1:05:03
There is a new version of the film to end all films. I thought this might be some that you peppers up

Unknown Speaker  1:05:16
regularly with fetcher promised to follow him to the end of the earth, He promised to organize this. So there's a little bit I share just a little break, that evening time of tension. And we do have fun I have in this country, I still have probably just getting a green card. But nothing is going to separate me from my convictions to stand for justice everywhere. And I've come all the way from Greensboro, North Carolina, to be with you in this process. And I left my feminine in Johannesburg, South Africa, they have suffered because of my convictions. But they have been in support of what I stand for. I have no next of kin in this country. And yet, I still stay in and shout against this big, big, powerful nation. Because I am very powerful in my powerlessness. And once we begin to realize that we can move mountains, and in this country, 53% of the population are women. 53%. If you add the children, it's far more, if we can rise up as women that will not stomach any oppression or injustice for women, anywhere in the world, we can move mountains. The one the only problems are Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, or the Philippines, anywhere in the world. And we can make it you can start where you are. Because in my country, we started the students, students 19 point 9 million How many years have been struggling, and also going on, but I'm very thankful that you take and I hope this is going to be a meaningful day for you to check on yourself to say really, what am I living for? What do I do with the gifts that I have of time of talent of man of resources? How can I play a more active role to make the immediate future more meaningful than the life in which I live? And if I can speak in this language of my oppressor, check yourself how many languages you speak. I speak about six. But we are here in the struggle and I'm so thankful you Chang hope this will be a very meaningful day for you. And I don't want intellectual questions to test this. I want sincere questions on genuineness and love and concern for each other. allude to continue the struggle goes on Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:00
Like to ask people to hold off on some of the questions until the other two speakers speak and then maybe we can have a general discussion and kind of address questions to all three. The next speaker is Tavi that Indaba was also an activist who is a member of the African National Congress of South Africa, who has been involved in struggles in South Africa and in this country, and is currently involved in campaign for divestment here at Columbia, in addition to other things. So she's going to talk a little bit about the struggle since the 50s. And perhaps a little bit about how we can fit into that hobby.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:57
I'd like to thank the organizers of the meeting, for inviting us to speak at this workshop. And to extend Of course, we have the women's section of the ANC, New York, our gratitude for the invitation. When, you know it's very hard to follow an act like the combat has just

Unknown Speaker  1:09:25
given us I mean, it's, it shows you the power, the same power that you saw in the movie. She speaks with a great power that we women so much admire in the spirit that we so much have picked up and draw aspirations from. And up to this day is still full, of course to them as their source of strength. The generation that preceded that has preceded us and is, of course still active with us today. Since 1956, a lot of things have happened. People say well Was it wasn't it a defeat that the past passes were extended to women in South Africa. And you know, some will not who will take care of a narrow path will say, of course, it was a defeat, because the passes were extended. And what were what the women who protested in the 50s did okay. However, we take a very different view from the dead. If indeed this was a failure, the regime would not have tightened the chains as much as it has tightened around the nation, across across both men and women, and extending all forms of of the most brutal oppression towards women. We witnessed in the city in a third time, after 1956 women who were who had seen sentences meted out to them that were just as equal to the men where we had the treason trial that you saw, where 156 people were in the leadership of the struggle in South Africa. We all were arrested and charged with high treason. And amongst these people were people that were mentioned there people like Helen Joseph that you saw, you saw on the film, people like Dorothea, who has just been released from prison from from prison today, people like Lillian gang boy, who was the president of the African National Congress, Women's League. Now, these are women that have left an indelible mark in the struggle of South Africa, for the people like Dorothea and she was in fact, you can say she's one of the first freedom fighters to be involved involved in conduit fees with a woman she was charged with harboring in controversies were members in 1969 and was sent to jail for 18 years. And as she comes out today, he unrelenting strength is we still see and we still see her commitment towards the struggle to further to further buttress and strengthen our quest for liberation. Other women that we may even think about people like Albertina Sisulu. Now I met him as soon as the wife of Walter Sisulu, who was at the time of his arrest, together with Nelson Mandela was the secretary general of the African National Congress. She has not she's one of those women that has not been broken by a series of ban of pending orders, and house arrest and restrictions as much just similar to those that we know of Winnie Mandela that are most publicized. And at this today, we witnessed this gallant lady, who is a patron of the United Democratic brand, which is a void that is a young body, but is a body that takes us back again, to the days of the 50s when we saw such massive protests. It is an organization that that represents about 506 organizations, many of which subscribe to the Freedom Charter of South Africa, which says that South Africa belongs to all we live in it, regardless of race, color, or creed. And Albertina Sisulu has now been erased is now being being arrested for four years by the South African regime at the age of 66, I believe. And from here, we draw the strength to continue because at age, many will have retired from the struggle Some say they retire from the struggle, of course, but we said we've seen from here the strength of no of no surrender issues not retired. And young women like Barbara Hogan and white South African women. Also, people that stand out in our minds today when we talk about the struggle, a young woman who at the age of, of I believe she's in her 20s She has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by the South African regime.

Unknown Speaker  1:14:25
But the bravery that she showed At her trial is you know, it defies reason, because when she was sentenced, she came in an ANC colors and gave the ANC salute, and said Amandla these other signs of a movement of women growing and showing that it is not about to be repressed. Instead of losses. We are Millions more gains in the struggle for liberation, especially in the face of the oppression that women face, and yet show the strength that they show. Now, the nature of the oppressive that is meted out to women in South Africa is in three on three levels. Women in South Africa are placed as workers. So as a worker, you are paid less than you mean your male counterpart. And the women are the most an Under or unemployed part of the population in South Africa itself, that we find the most in Japan to stands where conditions for living there are not not very conducive to living this overcrowding and other problems of poverty. The second level is the level is the level of blackness, they are classed as blacks, they have no rights, they disenfranchised they have no right to vote, just as the men don't either. And on the on the third level, you know, women are treated as minors in South Africa. Like you cannot get a house unless you have a man. There are many things that you can do many things that you can do. Without if your husband dies, you lose your housing in especially this is especially in the urban areas. Now, as a woman, you're not even allowed. If your husband lives in the urban areas in what state you are not allowed to live in the urban areas with your husband, because your husband is a unit of labor, that is on on lease. Rather than say you're on contract, really, because you are an indentured person, you will be assuming that you have certain rights, you have no rights in the urban areas, except to lease yourself your services to the white people to the to the to the white people in the urban areas, and these are specifically the multinational corporations. Now, the issue of multinational corporations comes up a lot in this country. And we're always talking about when is the complete said, we are proud they're providing employment for blacks in South Africa. Through they're providing employment for for blacks in South Africa, but for whose benefit. The reason that the multinationals are there is obvious, we all know, the basis of economics, especially under the system that we live in here, that when you when when one goes on a best business venture to be a motivating factor, the prime motivating factor is the vector of profits. And in South Africa, the system of apartheid guarantees the highest profit yields possible up to the point where it is cheaper to mine coal in South Africa and export here, then to mine coal here. In said it here, even the market in the US market. So we see the system, the system, they're guaranteed to the to the to the multinationals, an atmosphere where exploitation goes unchecked, and human degradation goes unchecked. And yet, we hear I mean, we continue to hear the multinationals boast that they are there they are charitable, then we should not be fooled by that, we should be very sure of what is going on there, because maybe those women who are working in the in the urban areas and can live in the urban areas and so in South Africa, and what people are calling the you know, there is a middle class, there are Blacks who have manifested upward mobility, they I mean, upward mobility socially, has no consequences on above that you still cannot vote, you still cannot live where you want, you still cannot

Unknown Speaker  1:19:27
you are still liable to be deported out of your own country into some barren piece of land because of the laws of apartheid in South Africa. So now these women who live in in the urban areas in and educated women still do not have any privileges. And in fact, you know, it's just simply no issue to talk about the issue of the of the classes the resume is attempting to do that. But it's the black people have said that, you know, they recognize that this is just a token form of tokenism where I mean, we are familiar with it here where they can say, If so and so made it, why can to make it. And those conditions simply do not exist in South Africa. And when we talk about Bantu stands, I want to specifically talk about my two cents, because this is an issue that clearly affects women and affects women, most disproportionately black women most disproportionately in the population of South Africa. Now, Bantu stands with the creation of the nationalist regime, which is a form of new nuts, really, in South Africa. This is a form of vulcanizing. This country in South Africa, you have a series of series of lands that are called this this is homelands. And this series of lands do not even connect these series of lands are specifically chosen because of their barren as I'm sure some of you are familiar with the reservation system, you know, places like Arizona specifically for Indians, and that's nothing but desert and so forth. The the back to stand are similar to that, because they they work in the same way. Now, these bantustans comprise only about 13% of the land and to be correct about 12.3% of the land of 12.7% of the land, and is left alone for for the purpose of blacks, who make up more than 70 72% of the population of South Africa, whereas the other 87.3% is left for whites, who make up nothing more than 20% of the population of South Africa. Now, you can imagine what kinds of overcrowding goes on. And what the plight of the people who live there is. Now, these are mostly old people, mostly women, and children. In the Bantu stands, there is one doctor to every four to 4000 people. There is a death rate of 10 people a day from tuberculosis. Malnutrition takes its toll on the children, whereby 50% of the children die before they reach the age of five, from nothing but malnutrition in a country that is classified as a well developed country, and in fact, is the first the fastest developing country. Amongst many, many, many countries in the world, where one sector of the population has plenty, and where South Africa can even sell foodstuffs outside of South Africa, whereas there is such gross discrepancies between how the citizenry live in South Africa. Now, this one to stand, the permission, the formation and the creation, and even the sustenance of Bantu stand is perpetuated by a series of laws and a series of brutal uprooting of the people of South Africa, especially the women. They eat I'm sure many of you have heard about crossroads in Cape Town, where women are being moved from one location to another fast food. These women are saying we have nowhere to go. This is where we belong, and no one has the right to dictate to us where to go. But there is but but the regime uses force and comes to the bulldozers and has shot people and killed people who are peacefully just saying we will not move because this is where we live. We've heard about the Macapa people in the northern transfer, who had lived in on this piece of land for four years, and this was was land that they lived in with their chiefs, and they all protested and did not want to leave this area. But the regime again, sent as a practice in South Africa.

Unknown Speaker  1:24:29
As the nature of apartheid, of course, force was used against the people to move them from where they will they will they were living. Now. When you when you really look also talk about women, you can't but talk about the issues of birth control and so forth. In 1981 the South African regime passed and passed a bill they're saying that you If women black women should be given forced sterilization, because the black population was going out of control, and yet making and creating an atmosphere where white women should have more children in order to increase the white population because of the danger of the increase of the black population, when, when these things were met with protests, and from amongst the community people, the South African regime started to use a truck depo provera, which I'm sure you're familiar with here, it was rejected here for use by women. And women have been either forcefully sterilized without their knowledge as an as it goes on here in many, many parts of the country. And women were given this the proper virus and women have developed the side effects and illnesses as a result of Depo Provera. And there is a campaign inside South Africa by women to outlaw the use of the proper Viagra. And this is I mean, this is a struggle right now, that is really a worldwide struggle, just like before, the issue of the proper varieties is a key issue amongst women. Dated in some other ways, inside the country, by systematic genocide, by the by the regime itself, which is nothing but the characteristic similar to that of the Nazi regime. That's something that so many of the nations in the world got together to fight but today, we find it very hard to to get together and go to fight about it. With here, I can very easily see where sanctions in Poland, saying we have come to teach you how to organize ourselves. Whereas we have always been organized in our labor in the labor movement, and women today are even organizing up to the point where domestic servants are organizing themselves between. But then comes this paternalistic attitude that we should join the African American labor centers, which do not which which want us to compartmentalize our struggle and say, Well, this is the this is the labor struggle, no, this is the community struggle. I'm not getting involved in the struggle of the political issues, and getting involved in the struggle of the of the labor. Whereas when you're carrying I mean, the past book, which enshrines all the laws of oppression in South Africa, there is no other way says, now you're being oppressed is awake. Now, we are being oppressed as a community because the oppression is meted out equally. This thing dictates your total life, and therefore it should be, that is why we fight apart when to fight apart the notice a piecemeal, but we want to fight it totally. And we want to, to be sure that we have the support here of the American people, which is why we will continue to give the information and continue to be grateful for for such occasions that like the one we have today, where we can share information, and think about projects that we can do. Now, usually, when people have workshops, we think about things that we can we can do and how you can contribute to the struggle and so forth. Now, I mean, we have several campaigns as campaigns as women in the ANC Women's section, and the campaign that we've had a campaign such as having medical supplies to send to the to our refugees in Africa, who are thoroughly in need of them. We have crashes, like nursery schools, where we have

Unknown Speaker  1:29:03
lots of children that need clothing, and they need medication, of course, they need toys, and we need books for our countries. However, now we have organized so much for the material, it's so easy to get clothing, I'm sure today I can get clothing in tons. But the problem that we have is in terms of maintaining things. We have had problems in raising funds to be able to move things. Therefore, at this point, the little storage space that we've ever been provided with, we cannot we are unable to use. I mean we have overused it's full. And now we are unable to gain money to to to to to do the meaning. I will just say that the office address of the African National Congress is 801 Second Avenue room for five New York City 10017. And in case you want to phone is 4903487. And on another level being that this is a school and I'm sure some of you are in the academics, there are issues such as the divestment issue, which we are we are pushing very hard for. And we hope that you know, we can get some a lot of community support as well as the support of the students within Columbia itself. And hopefully, pressure the Columbia trustees, we've been intransigent in trying to find a workable solution towards divestment for Columbia. I'd like to say thank you very much for the opportunity to say a few words, and hope that other things can be covered in the questions.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:09
I can limit but we also want to have time for questions after the next speaker is now the Andrew, with the attorney and currently duty here at Columbia, who was going to talk a little bit about the legal system in South Africa and give us some the factual framework for exactly how that oppressive system works.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:33
Okay, my mind, what I'm going to say is going to be very brief, because I think most of the cities have covered some of the aspects that I was going to touch on, I don't think that it's, it's very useful to give a litany of the laws in South Africa without looking at the consequences, the social and political consequences of them. And they've covered them mostly, particularly looking at the Bantu stands and kinds of the education system, the poverty and so on in the, in the rural of the bunch of stands. Now, I think that the reason why South Africa is, I mean, the many reasons one of the important reasons why South Africa is the scene is the system is so offensive to the rest of the world is that the commonly held notions of democracy and justice and so on that, that people believe in many people the Western world purports to, to push us they've just been totally ignored in South Africa. But what the South African government has done is managed to set up a very impressive looking legal structure, a system of courts, judges, lawyers, we have a legal system built on the on the British model. And if you look at the legal system without looking at the content of the laws, without looking at the social and political structure, you find a very impressive one, people have even managed to write all kinds of treatises doctorates theses on the South African legal system, not looking at the substantive nature of laws. Also, since particularly after the Second World War, with the process of decolonization and so on in Africa, the law was seen to a large extent as the as a a the law was used as an instrument for promoting human rights, whereas the South African government came to power at that very time and and instead use the law to perpetuate the apartheid system which exists right now. At the heart of the apartheid system is the need for a constant and cheap supply of labor. That is what the the influx control system is all about. We have you have white racists and so on. All those racist notions are important, but I think the underlying problem in South Africa is the economic exploitation. And the reason why women suffer most at the because of the of the PA system is fact that they are largely seen as superfluous men healthy young men can provide cheap labor in the cities for the industries and so on, but the women, old men, children and so on are not are not useful to the workings of the apartheid capitalist structure. So you That is that is the crux of the of the influx control system to ensure that there is always a constant and cheap supply of labor. Now, the how the the influx control system works is that every African person at the age of 16 is required to carry a reference book. And section 10 of the black urban areas Act covers

Unknown Speaker  1:35:30
the provision of reference books, there are three sections to section 10 Section 10. A, is is a right which most well it's, you know, the granting of reference books and so on is not a right it's a privilege, the government sees it as a privilege. So even if you qualify in terms of the three sections in the act, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be given a reference book, it depends on some official who could arbitrarily decide that even though you satisfy all the requirements and all the criteria, you still won't be given a reference book, section 10 A covers people who have been born and have continuously resided in an urban area. So if you're born into Waco, and you've lived there all your life, you have you have the right, we will have access to you satisfy all the requirements for a section 10 a stem, there have been problems where women who have lived in Soweto have sent their children out to some bantustan because they've worked on they couldn't keep the children and the children lose their section 10 A rights because they haven't resided there continuously, all their lives in Section 10 B covers people who have worked continuously for one employer for 14 years, or has resided continuously in an urban area for 15 years. Now the problem is what used to happen is that the government, the the people in the in the Bantu stands have to go through labor offices, labor bureaus, and they have a contract, they're given a yearly contract with a company in the city. And at the end of the year, they go back to see their families and their contract is renewed. So what you actually have, instead of having a 10 year contract, you have 10, one year contracts. And so that's been a something that the government is used to ensure that not many people get section 10 A, get a section 10 a qualification. I worked at a legal resources center, which is a public interest law firm in South Africa. It's the only one in the country and its attempts in some way to alleviate some of the misery of the South African system. And we had a case last year you might have read it in the papers, the big recruiter decision, we a guy who had done that it worked continuously for 10 years for an employee employer was refused a reference book because he had broken his contract once a year. And the one of the lawyers, you know, my office took it to the Appellate Division in bloom Fontaine and the, the court gave judgment in favor of Mr. Dakota and said that he had actually worked there for 10 years and that his wife and children could come and live with him. The whole notion of actually going to the Appellate Division in Bloemfontein, spending hours of time, legal expertise, money, and so on, to bring a case like that to court is itself around this, I'm sure that people reading something like that cannot fully grasp the the what it means, you know, just to go to court go to, to an appeal court to get permission for your wife and children to live with you is is just something I'm sure which is which is offensive to all of you. Well, Mr. Ricotta did get permission and so on the state there was talk that the state would close that loophole change section 10 B so that people won't get permission because they would have the problem then of many women and children coming to the urban areas or many men getting permission to live in the city. But I think that there was pressure, some pressure from outside, but I think the state is that African government is going through a period of intense International Public Relations, and would just be another, you know, it would be something that people would use, again against the government. And I thought that and I think that in, in sort of the top echelons of government, they decided that they would rather use another means and undermine the effect of the judgment. So what has happened now is they've said that they will give effect to the judgment, but only if a woman will be allowed to come and join her husband in the city only if she has housing if they can

Unknown Speaker  1:39:59
have require housing for married people housing that the state has provided. So that is the main basically that the judgment has been killed because the state hasn't built into it too. I think the last houses bought by the government was in in the late 1960s, early 70s. I think so the the housing situations is, is acute. That means that people will not be able to come to the city, even though men are able to get section 10 B rights means nothing, they can't bring their their wives and children to the cities. Then you have the other laws in South Africa, you have the immorality Act, which makes it illegal for black and white people to have sexual intercourse. mixed marriages Act, which prohibits marriages between blacks and white, the separate Immunities Act, which provides separate beaches, all kinds of public amenities for the various racial groups. One of the things that the government has also done is in its attempt to dilute Black Power, and also it's reminiscent of the British divide and rule policy is to divide the black population into three groups, you have the African population, the colored population, people of mixed ancestry, and I'm a colored person, then you have the Indian population, mostly people from India, who came as as to work on the sugar plantations last last century in the beginning of the century. And it does create, the government has managed to create in some extent, to some extent, some animosity between the various groups without the black consciousness movement as undermined, to a large extent that that policy of the government to the we've spoken largely about the urban sort of setting and the problems of how section 10 prevents women from coming to the cities and perpetuates the cycle of poverty in which they are involved in the rural areas to the women, because the land. The land that has been set aside for Africans are mostly non arable. They've the land has been over utilized, people actually can't equilibrium out of the land, a lot of the women have moved to the neighboring white forms to try and acquire some work. The problem has been over the last few years that we've increased mechanization and so on white form, white form is no longer need workers that much laborers, so women have been deprived of a very important source of income. seasonal workers are needed occasionally. But that also means that we women who are able to acquire jobs are only able to acquire them for a short period of time. And then you have the added problem that in the city's employers, because women and children have been left in the in the Bantu stands, pay men, the wages of single men, they say, Well, you know, you're living we're providing you with some of them providing accommodation, you've been living in hostels, you don't have families to support. Therefore, the rationale is that the wages that they pay the men you know, us men can subsist of that and entirely forgetting that they have families in the in the Bantu stands will have to be fed and so on. Also, there's the problem. And it was, I think the movie showed where women very often we've had in the office, women coming to this to our office because they haven't heard from their husbands for a year or two. And so and they don't know where their husbands work, they have no idea where to find their husbands. Coming to the city alone is a formidable experience. Most of them have never been to the city and you have a situation with men, we were sons and husbands have basically been lost. You go to the police station, you go to any official place, people you're dealing with with with with with officials who see African men, African women as numbers so you know, there's no there's no no attempt made to even try and find these these missing people. Another problem is that men become very lonely in the cities men. Live with other women, they now have two families to feed and it just becomes too much of a burden to with the wages that you do and to try and feed two families.

Unknown Speaker  1:44:54
I just want to touch on the reforms that you have laid, particularly the Reagan administration She has given the South African government a lot of praise for the kind of reforms that they perceive the South African government is embarking on, you have the so called constitutional dispensation whereby colored and Indian people will be given some semblance of a goat in three Parliament's that are going to be set up. You also have you noises about urban blacks being given greater rights, et cetera, et cetera. But I think that people have praised South African government for these moves basically escaped the point. All these reforms and so on are basically attempts by the South African government to try and some way modify apartheid to alter the structure, so that white people still remain in power, and that capitalism as it is in the country can continue that the the labor which is which is assured by the by the migrant labor system will persist. So you will have maybe a group of African people in the cities being given what is perceived greater political rights color and Indian people viewing what is perceived greater political, and economic rights. That is not so basically what you have is you have the poverty in the Bantu stands being increased, the rest of the world only sees these reforms sees, maybe some blacks being removed into jobs that are that are were previously held by whites and so on, that the fundamental nature of the South African system remains the same. And the South African government came to power in 1948. On a policy of apartheid, they have not changed their policy, they are not going to change the policy. And the basic problem is that that unless the Nationalist government is removed, and the people themselves or are given the right to vote, to have a say in the government and run the country, no, no modifications, no alterations, means anything, the system is rotten, and unless the government is overthrown, it will persist. Thanks for listening.

Unknown Speaker  1:47:27
About 1230 and open it up for some questions. So just let people

Unknown Speaker  1:47:37
How is it possible to get favorable decisions in any South African courts, like the record to case

Unknown Speaker  1:47:46
would be now it's possible you're talking about the process? So?

Unknown Speaker  1:47:49
Yeah, I mean, if the judges are white and the prosecutors away?

Unknown Speaker  1:47:56
Well, the problem is that they still I think that it's in South Africa, now, the the legal the judges have been, apart from the South African system coming under constant criticism, the judges, the whole court system has been knocked consistently, international criticism has hit them. And so they are judges who are concerned, even though politically, they support the South African government, they're concerned about the legal integrity. And so what some lawyers have attempted to do is I don't believe that the law can in any way change the system lawyers can in any way change the system, because the law is the problem, that the what we attempt to do is to try and alleviate and maybe provide some short term relief, you know, a lot in this whole process of apartheid and repression. So I think with the ricotta decision, you had a very good legal argument, which judges couldn't possibly deny. And I think it's all this move to sort of give this African state some credibility to see to maybe the move will dispel some of the criticism that has been heated the judiciary that you have a judgment like that.

Unknown Speaker  1:49:21
So that would suggest that the white minority cares anything about it.

Unknown Speaker  1:49:25
Yeah, the white minority does not I wouldn't say that. It's the overriding sort of motivation, but it's really important just like the cultural boycott and the sports boycott is very encouraging for black South Africans. It makes us believe that at least the international community's outrage it was going on in South Africa. For White South Africans, it's a white South Africans leave the country, they are privileged inside the inside, when they come out. They attack from all sides and they have to pay for those privileges. And it's very important for them to be able To give the rest of the world some kind of idea that they're not that bad. And so therefore, international international opinion does matter. And it's very important. It's an important tool that outside groups can use.

Unknown Speaker  1:50:19
Far left and assembly was on farm workers, farm workers aren't unionized. farmworkers basically have no rights. No, no, no legal rights at all. And I know that there was there was some lawyer doing some research. I don't know about this group that you're talking about. Now, but maybe

Unknown Speaker  1:50:39
I'm not addressing the specific case you mentioned. But I just want to draw your attention that the forced, you know, giving out of depo provera is done not only the farms, but even in the cities. And we have government build shanties called clinics are not full clinics, like clinics, you know, all over the world, where blacks who have because blacks are not allowed to live in the city, they don't work in the city. You know, we I mean, we're working to sit but you cannot live with the city, we don't have even facilities in the city, we live outside the city by white people's law, we have our clinics there that are run by the city. So what they do is they prescribe tablets to women, and without even telling them what these tablets are for. And I was in the national executive of the Planned Parenthood for the whole of South Africa. And I was able to come into access to some of the very good liberal whites who are also pushing for saying things within the black community. I think one of the things that we need to realize is that according to the white people in South Africa, they are basing their society on historical mistakes of the United States in all respects, they have the Indian Reservation idea is a bunch of Stein idea the idea that people from outside can come and take over control the land is like all all of us being here Native Indian is not appearing anywhere and you know, land has been taken over we had there was a much of the Indian cinema at you know, from Los Angeles to Washington. Again foster reality we have not only do we have depo provera we have a lot of other you know, carcinogenic stuff that is brought to us people and they as a patient you don't ask the doctor you know, what is this what is this for then you don't get treatment this is the thing but I just wanted to stand with the farmers it's even more difficult to have access to them because you have a farmer owned by a white folk in a rural area and even the housing is owned by the white the white end if you step into that land you are charged with trespassing so the very difficult to have access to even if you are a relative to the farmer you don't have the right to meet your own family in your own motherland on these are perpetrated with the knowledge and approval and the sanctification of the Western world

Unknown Speaker  1:53:27
will you that question I think the in a situation like that I mean the farm systems in South Africa basically feudal systems you have you have the effect of slavery there and in a situation like that it would be very difficult if if anybody wanted to get in there and change whatever it seems almost an impossible task because legally you have no grounds to stand on if anybody tries to organize it but if a trade union or something we try and organize the the farmer would find all these workers that lose not only their jobs but the homes and so on so it's almost a no win situation

Unknown Speaker  1:54:05
to come in on censorship currently in South Africa like how easy is it for white people to get materials like underground types of materials and authors like maybe more to it has there any been any relaxation in those areas or to have place shown?

Unknown Speaker  1:54:29
Well you know, the system is is it's also of just of late I mean, the sensitive ships system has always been very rigid very stringent and so on but of late is all parts of the moves and so often government when international Truman they have some ease some of the the tight controls that they did have all the material that's been disseminated inside the country. I don't think Navy Gordon has ever had problems she's never had a books banned or something like that. Yeah, It's, uh, you know, Nate and Gordon was booked from what I can gather, she might have had some band, but I've always been undepreciated books I've never been banned, and so on. If people like Mandela, black political leaders who have written stuff, none of you can't get any of that inside the country and so on. And so yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult, it's really arbitrary to the censorship system. You know, you know that books are banned for moral reasons or political reasons. But the person who decides who does the group who does decide to ban a book, the censorship board, it will ban a book and then you can appeal it a lot. This depends on the opinions of that board that particular day.

Unknown Speaker  1:55:42
Let me respond to Nadine go on record. And I'm saying from my people's point of view, largen. Galadima makes money out of our misery. She writes very well. She is not in a situation of, of suffering. She sees it objectively. And she may write sympathetically with sensitively, but she is not my representative. She is not describing my situation. In the same room I described Alan Pater and I have not yet come across. I don't know I have not yet come across any information, where nothing government Guardamar has publicly supported liberation movement, or done something directly openly for the oppressed people in my motherland. And in the white setup here, if you don't mention God, whatever you say, is not authentic, if you don't know Alan Payton, you know, whatever you say, so not authentic, and these people right from it's a racist sects, you know, aptitude, and that is very sexist at the same time. So I am not saying what they write is wrong, but it's distant, it's not my situation. And so when it comes to censorship, it is tolerated. But after all, it's okay to be in business about blank cafe. You know, if I write from my own situation, you know, authentically, first, I don't even get publishers, I don't even get any funding, and my material will never never reach the market. And it's the same thing, even in this country exactly the same.

Unknown Speaker  1:57:19
That's really what I was getting, if there's any kind of movement to do any writing, and if so, is there any means of support to get seven eight published?

Unknown Speaker  1:57:26
Well, I come from an oral tradition. And documentary evidence is a feudalistic western concept that is very Hellenistic in its origin. And what I say is authentic. So with a little bit of writing that we do, is coming out of yourself. And in a struggle, you find there are ways in which we communicate, we do do some writing, not for entertainment, but because the time of a revolution is really little information for conduct for organization for strategy for movement. I wish we had the time to sit down and write even the the sales, you know, people who are arrested to entertaining the sales are now no more allowed to be given material to study. I don't know whether you've got any response to that. But that's a fact.

Unknown Speaker  1:58:18
Just in addition to what the two sides have said that the point being in South Africa, that is the material that is allowed for broadcast for dissemination in terms of books and magazines and so forth. It's usually material that does not fundamentally challenge. Yeah, what is going on? It is it is the the superficial material that that we see. I'm sure you've read. I mean, you've read things like how the beloved country does not necessarily specifically talk about fundamental issues in South Africa,

Unknown Speaker  1:58:59
the covenant by mitula. It's very mild.

Unknown Speaker  1:59:03
It's realistic in its own way, but it is not it is not pointed towards the things that are fundamentally wrong in South Africa. And therefore can you know, is allowable this permissiveness is okay with it in South Africa is become permissive.