Unknown Speaker  00:00
give much power to the groups that were joining the camera, I think what happens is the president of the State will now have more even more power. And you know, it will consolidate consolidation of a party system. And it's making it even more fascist, while at the same time cosmetic making us think that it is looking better. And making South Africa's image, of course, better to the international community. But you know, it's something that together with the agreement that has been signed, it was something that in the ANC, as our president said, we should see this as a clarion call, to consolidate our struggle to strengthen our startup because the issue is not, you know, it's not the cross border issues with Mozambique and so forth. They did a study in South Africa, inside South Africa and conduits, which is a military wing of the is fighting from inside we are based in South Africa, these cross border issue is an issue to, to, to to divert us from real issues, that have opportunities. And, you know, to make us, you know, look at that, rather than look at what's going on inside. And to actually, I mean, it's election, election, election year, rhetoric to make us look at the United States and think the United States has been instrumental and things look very good. And it's doing something good for southern Africa, when in fact, you look at the basis for signing for signing the treaty, and you look at who has what to give. And you can actually see that it's really, that is not the issue in southern Africa, in effect. We look at Tuesday address in South Africa, in southern Africa, we know that the South African regime, has been the aggressor. And we know that the United States has not changed its plans for southern Africa, so they need to overthrow the Mozambican the Mozambican government as it's constituted as well as the Angolan government. Two days ago, you just had it m&r was widely attacking Mozambique inside Mozambican m&r to the creation of South Africa. And in fact, right before these agreements were signed, South Africa was buttressing even more this is a clinically of m&r, so that we should m&r is the movement for national Mozambican National Resistance, which, which was started by the South Africans using some of the so called dissidents.

Unknown Speaker  02:46
Just like the CIA is doing it in Nicaragua, and El Salvador, they just want to share it all that we've shared it according to South African law, it is treason. This treasonable, punishable by death.

Unknown Speaker  03:04
And it's not an easy thing for us to share. Some of you may never even meet some of us again. But we have paid a very heavy price to do this. And we want to live to one happiness. But we also cannot accept happiness in slavery. We can rather have our poverty in freedom and liberty and determine our own destiny. This is the price that some of us have lost families from lost relatives. And even here we can't get a paper speaks because of who we are what we stand for meetings like this and that will not stop us. About reached our time limits. Want to thanks again.

Unknown Speaker  04:15
Maybe you can mention I forgot to mention I forgot to mention something that this is the you we may well want to something extremely important that 1984 has been declared bad there for South African women, South African and Namibian women, by the United Nations a request of the African National Congress. It is a year where we hope to galvanize and strengthen the sub the role of women within the organization. And we hope that you will participate in the rallying within running around this year of women where they will be that many events and of course you know that August 9, is thy Women's Day, International Women's Day. And that we should, you know, in your respective groups or whatever groups that exist, we hope that you will try to coordinate with the African National Congress women section to have commemorative events for August 9, and to have maybe even, you know, conferences that revolve around the issue of humans. I think

Unknown Speaker  05:27
there's one more announcement before people go, and I'll be very brief. But I think that most of us have probably been very inspired by people who have been involved in the struggle against apartheid firsthand, and on the front lines. But I think it's sister Tupac who pointed out, it's very important for us to make personal decisions about how we can lend support to that struggle. And on this campus, in particular, how many people here affiliated with Colombia, but there's been a struggle for the past two years to demand at this university. That's the $44 million, and currently has invested in companies that do business in South Africa. I'm the co chairperson of the Coalition for free South Africa, in Colombia. And we've been kind of spearheading that struggle. So I think that that would be one way that people who are on the campus either as faculty or staff for the students could Vinson support the anti apartheid struggle that's going on here. Because US companies that Columbia and other such institutions have investments in are profiting from the kind of slavery and oppression and exploitation that exists in South Africa. And I think it's, it's our duty to demand that kind of economic support. This continues. So I have a list here, a sign up sheet if people want to get on the mailing list and Coalition for free South Africa. Literature, thank you.

Unknown Speaker  06:58
Just give me your name, as you wouldn't want to be identified on the

Unknown Speaker  07:01
top of the African National Congress, women section, New York, I'm a student at Columbia.

Unknown Speaker  07:12
If you could just speak a little about the courts and the impact that they have had on the struggle within the borders of Southern Africa, and has it as the government would have wished subverted any of the movement because, you know, it affects the basis in Mozambique.

Unknown Speaker  07:31
First of all, you know, in terms of bases in Mozambique, it's true that people have gone through Mozambique in the transit area. But it's not true that we've had any basis inside Mozambique. In fact, if we were to, to characterize the residences of the ANC cadre in Mozambique as military bases, then we could kind of characterize the houses of one and a half million South Africans inside South White South Africans and South South Africa as military bases because there happens to be guns in every that carried by a one and a half million whites inside South Africa. And if ANC people have guns to protect themselves within the within their compounds, and that constitutes a military base, then the regime has to use to be very keen telling us so because then that means that the houses of the of the one and a half million whites in South Africa and military bases. However, the the, you know, the signing of the of the Accords, as our president said, was for Mozambique, a choice between life and death, and they chose life, which we would all recommend. We never recommend that our companies commit suicide. national suicide, however,

Unknown Speaker  08:53
explain a little bit more about that. In other words, what was the life and death situation?

Unknown Speaker  08:59
The the economy inside inside the country in Mozambique had been destroyed by elements that we trained and supported by the South African regime and the South African regime. Using the pretext that the ANC bases and this issue of hot pursuit and attacking Mozambique on very many occasions to the point where they economy was being sabotaged. And the drought inside Mozambique itself did not help as a natural phenomenon. And therefore, they have been many problems that they Mozambicans could not afford to be carrying on a war in spending much of their budget on war. When the people of Mozambique themselves were starving because of the drought and because of the of the economic destabilization and sabotage by the South African regime. So in that sense, they chose life instead of death. And, you know, in terms of the people of South Africa, there's an interesting quote that came from the newspapers in South Africa. The people are saying when the New York Times that the people are saying, well, you know, why, why South Africa is so willing to talk to somebody mashallah player leader, and he's not willing at all inside its borders to talk with Nelson Mandela in South Africa. And this is, in fact, he's saying that the people are saying that the issue is not outside the inside South Africa In South Africa, is skirting the issue is not dealing with the issue that it really has to deal with inside South Africa. And in fact, we have seen we as we are going to see an even more white greater awakening amongst our people, in terms of the struggle, and we are going to see more consolidation, as our president said that this is a clarion call, it is a challenge to us inside South Africa, to consolidate ourselves into fight harder to to to mobilize the people as this is the women to mobilize workout women as workers and to mobilize them into the struggle into the military wing and controversies. And to to face up to the challenge that the boys have put to us. And to also make sure that the international community is very clear on this issue, that the issue of apartheid is the issue in South Africa, that without a party, if there would be no, they wouldn't be, there would be no state of war and no state of destabilization because the destabilizing force in South Africa itself, because of its racist apartheid system, which all of Africa is opposed to, and will remain opposed to whether there are agreements signed or not. Because that is that is the issue. And as the OAU has also said, as our president Oliver Tambo said that, that is the issue that we have to fight. And that is the only thing that would bring peace to South Africa to South Africa. And Africa as a whole, is the total overthrow of the South African regime. And we remain committed to that. And when we, we see that the challenge before us is bigger is that it has been raised to higher levels, and that we are capable of raising our struggle to higher levels. And, and we've shown that we can do so in the past few weeks, where we have seen a few incidences of controversies making me making it self felt within the country, spite of the fact that they see that they have closed down our bases because we had no basis you must

Unknown Speaker  13:03
switch into another list. Another subject here is a large majority of African women organized in South Africa.

Unknown Speaker  13:14
They have no choice but to be organized, because, you know, the majority of our women are in the Bantu stand. And the BB oppression in South Africa is felt throughout the continent, the hunger that people experience, the disease that people experiencing the bantustans is nothing but it is a direct result of the apartheid laws. And our people know that they know that they are dispossessed people, they disenfranchised people, and most of them are people that have been deported from the urban areas into the into the rural areas. Most of most of the of the population now in the bantustan says the population of people that are being uprooted from the from the urban areas, into the into into the rural areas. And even if they have been living in the rural areas, women have always understood, as you know, we've seen it since 19. That spirit has not died, the spirit of a peasant women were united together with their you know educated sisters and people living in the urban areas to find a perfect that spirit has not died, because apartheid has not gone away. So, the as long as the issue remains, the spirit of the people will remain the same and that is strengthening apartheid. Therefore, we must also strengthen our our our counter offensive against the system and that is what is happening amongst the women in rural areas. In fact, you know, women are joining more and more into workers movements. They're joining more and more community organizations that women's groups being started self help groups and such in such groups. And in fact, you know, the status of the United Democratic Front has, in fact prompted even more community involvement, anti apartheid. And so we see this is a growth growth for the movement. And you see this strengthening the moment, because women have always played a very strong role as a catalyst. And as, as leaders most of the time in the struggle way.

Unknown Speaker  15:40
And the white woman who is in the film, and she unusual in South Africa, are there other white women who are actually joining the struggle?

Unknown Speaker  15:55
She's a woman of great strength. She's not necessarily very unusual. We've had women like Ruth close to was killed in Mozambique by the South African regime, which then led her poem in Mozambique, where she was teaching, she was a scholar, and worked with the New Age, which was a very progressive newspaper in South Africa and wrote copies on the issue of a birthdate and served I think, 117 days in prison, and she wrote his book on debt. And, you know, we have other women, white women that I struggle, see. Because,

Unknown Speaker  16:40
you know, I mean, is it a concern of many white women in South Africa in terms of their own freedom?

Unknown Speaker  16:49
The women's struggle in South Africa, is really the one that has pioneered interracial interracial work, the Federation of South African women was very large movement. And it had a lot of members that were not black and white. And these, these were said to be communist by the white regime. So when in 1950, you know, they banned the Communist Party, and you put it under all sorts of restrictions. We, you know, some women were intimidated and so forth. But still, you know, that the, the strength of the bond between our black and whites has been very strong to the, you know, to the point where we can, we can say that, the women's movement, you know, the Federation of South African women in South Africa, has really played a pioneering role in performance in showing and leading the people to a struggle that is both fought for equal rights as women, but struggle that is not divorced from the struggle of black liberation.

Unknown Speaker  18:24
Polaroid and IBM form in the past, you know, that the Polaroid takes the pictures, and IBM catalogs, the data and that kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker  18:35
With information right now, where American companies offering technical assistance to the military in South Africa, you know, with all your computer machinery is being used for the military, and tell me which country is fighting South Africa, South Africa, he's not fighting any country outside. There's an internal thing held by out by outside forces. So I've unfortunately, I don't have the company's names right now. But one thing that you might need to realize is that the United States is a late comer to South Africa. We were colonized by the Portuguese, we explore us, and then then the Germans and the French. And then the British fought them. And we became a colony.

Unknown Speaker  19:27
Because they didn't know. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker  19:29
And so we were under the British as a colony mentioned the tiny island holding and capturing people. But what what was I going to say? Your question on

Unknown Speaker  19:42
the involvement of foreigners in

Unknown Speaker  19:45
the Yeah, yeah, what I was trying to say was, so obviously, these countries that have been in South Africa for a longer period, have their companies German companies, Italian, British, French, Flemish, you name them, but do you know That's United States, even though it's a light, late comer to South Africa has over 300 companies operating in South Africa, that cannot claim to be a democracy that upholds justice. You know, and they're all milking us, our own nation. And I speak as a committed Christian, a trained minister of the church with a master's degree in divinity. That I cannot compromise with evil, I cannot compromise with injustice anywhere. And where there is selfishness anywhere in the world or racism, I have to speak out. That's what my religious conviction stands for. And you cannot be a religious person is you thrive on misery of other people, or the ignorance of other people from the powerlessness of other people on the prejudice. So anybody in this country who claims to be religious, and does nothing against injustice in this country and everywhere, is a fool is a hypocrite.

Unknown Speaker  21:06
Okay, your your, your divinity student in Christianity? Yes, I am. How do you feel about that, since it was missionaries who helped who helped in colonized Africa in the first place?

Unknown Speaker  21:21
Now, first and foremost, we have to recognize that the Christian faith is far more African Asian than Caucasian. And this is what the Western world does not project. Yes, this is effect we have right now to living Popes. Do you know that? Yes, there is Pope Shinoda, the third of the Coptic Church. And the Times magazine of light and airy 80 stated that the Coptic Church was the oldest, not old or older, but the oldest, living, organized Christian community in the world, and founded by Saint Mark, who is in the Bible in the first sanctuary. You know, we forget that African mess about it. We forget that even when Jesus was born, it was presented to the temple, and his life was threatened of all the countries in the world, the only safe place for Mary and Jews and beverages was in Africa, they fled to Egypt, which is not in the Middle East. But in Africa. Even the only human being carry the cross of Christ was a black man. So the white people who are late converts to the Christian faith, come across protecting themselves as the bearers of the good news. And they have misused it to exploit people, to to exploit to exploit people. And they have used religion, to make people to be docile, to be seen now, to be concerned about the world hereafter, when they are involved in the here and now. And so our My point is, you know,

Unknown Speaker  23:03
Christianity that that helped colonize Africa, and now Christianity itself,

Unknown Speaker  23:09
the misuse. And if you look at the history of that faith, you find that anybody who claims to be a Christian is supposed to be non sexist, and racist, and communal, in resources, on gifts. So, that's the fallacy of the Western world, they cannot claim to be Christians. So Africans have always been religious people long before the white people were even civilized. We've always believed in wants to believe in God. And we have a right to choose what ever faith we want to embrace as individuals. So that's where I stand and that's why I chose but I am an eclectic, I do not put down other faiths, nor do I have any problems. People don't have a faith. In fact, I get along much better with people who don't profess a faith, because I'm not so bigoted as the religious people who are largely responsible for the violence throughout the world.