Unknown Speaker 00:01 figures tribal struggle, and then you know, they put one man riding a village who, you know, used to be in his wife, if they, you know, try to kind of, you know, do a trial to him like to confess that, you know, that's my fault. Please see that kind of or any form of Unknown Speaker 00:22 the the confusion family was never strong and it's it was Vietnam that sense is more part of Southeast Asia then then it also with that if anything that had the opposite effect, but the the main they did, culturally speaking and that sense in terms of family forms is, as always more a part of Southeast Asia a greater role. And there's always been more of a kind of nuclear related relationship in the family, a conjugal couple relationships arising in China, the clan and the patriarchal family have always been extremely important. However, Vietnam was colonized by the Chinese for 1000 years, up into up until 1000 ad, and always looked at China as a kind of culturally superior entity, and during certain periods of Vietnamese history after 1008 D, some are more confusion than others. So, there was some kind of, you know, confusion impact on the family. And during the revolution, there were similar cases as I was in China, where there were there were ways of addressing the question of patriarchal family. But it was never as intense as it was. Unknown Speaker 02:08 You had some questions and Unknown Speaker 02:11 I remember the cornerstone asking us to pray. Exactly when Catholic Catholic Church was very strong in Vietnam during the 60s can be Unknown Speaker 02:25 well, the Catholic Church in United States as part of the Vietnam so called Vietnam law, which provided a help to provide the support for CME and help really Julian's installed as a dictator in the south Xiamen back to send a couple of years in New Jersey to Catholic seminary there Unknown Speaker 02:49 were no there was a bad PC for them for him for the regime and churches and Catholic schools right Unknown Speaker 02:59 of course, right. Kennedy Unknown Speaker 03:02 who was not in Unknown Speaker 03:04 what we do is test praise the Lord and pass the ammunition was so Catholic about it, but that's pushed was there the collecting of money, the praying and the support and the political advocacy. Unknown Speaker 03:19 And Jeff don't pay the JFK was accountable. Unknown Speaker 03:24 It was really Yeah. The other thing is now did you see when you were in Vietnam, are they doing tourism now? Unknown Speaker 03:31 Yes, they are doing I cannot believe it's possible take a tour of Vietnam for 25 minutes. Unknown Speaker 03:40 When two men you know when you the fight and kill each other, they should be ready tourist agents. Hi, this is somebody that's going to tell me that they don't want to go back they really have. But they said you know, I've been Vietnam for so much money and then toured with my family. I guess some of them are going back with one friend. Unknown Speaker 04:00 Or whether you're exploring here, Unknown Speaker 04:03 maybe we'll go back but I said tours to Vietnam Unknown Speaker 04:06 and it's not just vets but other people are are taking these tours educators Unknown Speaker 04:11 so that's a good discount Unknown Speaker 04:12 and teachers us they're gonna get just finally they're getting something. Yeah, yeah, I would say that there are a number of people who teach about about Vietnam and Warren United States Unknown Speaker 04:25 a lot of them going back Unknown Speaker 04:30 to being Oh, yes, Maryland. Unknown Speaker 04:36 Pictures Greece's. Oh, I saw in the 60s they were killing bombing. Unknown Speaker 04:41 Very beautiful in the 60s term. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 04:43 it was all war. And then recently I saw these come to Vietnam and at this beautiful chi quiet as Vietnam is where I saw the 60s. Unknown Speaker 04:55 Then you then Latins even different towards lantra Unknown Speaker 05:00 I think in relation to tourism, one important issue in feminism is sex tourism, especially Asia. And also the prostitutes were everywhere in the US basis. In addition to local prostitutes, which is very important than the Korean face, because of the US soldiers, there are prostitutes who have no relationship with Unknown Speaker 05:30 a GI. Many of them come to the United States and get divorced. Unknown Speaker 05:38 crimes or difficulties here also. But what happened to those of us to do the South Vietnam after Unknown Speaker 05:45 there were centers that were set up by the government for jobs, for job training, and other types of rehabilitation? And, in fact, I actually visited for quite a long time ago. It's hard to say exactly what kind of results you know what occurred to me centers, but at least there wasn't there has been a massive government. And in the middle, Unknown Speaker 06:14 there's no lower prostitutes there. Unknown Speaker 06:19 Yes, there are prostitutes. It appears there are more in in the south, and hochiminh city, but there are also some of the more his tweets have a paper mill project growing huge paper mill. And when I heard that there's a kind of section around the paper mill, where there are Vietnamese women are certainly a paper mill is a big paper mill factory factory. And a lot of Swedish development workers that I've come to, to both Unknown Speaker 06:57 Sweden and Finland, very developed throughout the world, Unknown Speaker 07:00 for creating Unknown Speaker 07:02 mills to make papers and they go in and they set up. They build the actual Unknown Speaker 07:09 meals, and they train the local people to use them to produce paper. And then of course, they leave. So it's very common. Yeah, that's true in China. The relation, the government's attitude Unknown Speaker 07:25 towards Unknown Speaker 07:30 movements, a steward is strong. So what I want you to be aware of the Unknown Speaker 07:38 Ottomans, we know Unknown Speaker 07:42 the women's union is Unknown Speaker 07:44 not an appliance organization, it is there to serve as a conduit for Unknown Speaker 07:54 champions first. One of the interesting questions about prostitution, taking it out of the realm of industry. I mean, in Bangkok, there is essentially sex industry. And sex tourism is highly developed. And it represents a considerable percentage, I don't know what percentage of GNP, but it is certainly substantial. And there are literally 1000s of prostitutes who when they get organized, I think possibly the question to us there is, what are the means by which these women can organize themselves for a better deal within this industry, rather than to at this point in time and think about how to eliminate it. But a curious question or the question. One question about prostitution, in places after quite Puritan, communist revolutionary movements have come to power is its persistence, given any opportunity, prostitution has reemerged in China, which I think I would have envisioned last place in the world, Unknown Speaker 08:57 but under desperate economic, Unknown Speaker 09:01 no, it's not only better, it's a better it, you can get better money as a prostitute. And then as a very low level unskilled factory worker. And for a long time, in the situation of China being closed, this was not a growth sector, in the economy, but now it is, and there are you can get a job and you can do better for yourself. And you found me one of the questions is to what extent are women? Do they own themselves to rent or sell themselves? And to what extent or is Are they under the control of a man who is prostituting them? That is no reserve usually the case, which isn't very often the case. I just think that when we start talking about prostitution in Asia, the the first take is to be simply upset and that's fun. But then after that, there are a series of questions to be really asked and thought about because it's a very industry like any other. And there are questions really to think about the nation to end especially as it reemergence. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 10:07 Well, in case of Korea before revolution, I don't know whether we will ever have revolution. But anyway, across to especially those who are involved in sectors, for example, over 80% of the tourists are Unknown Speaker 10:22 Japanese, to Korea as well. Oh, it's like Bangkok. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 10:27 I guess by Japanese, male tourists, and usually across to get 1/5 of the money the tourists spend, as you know, money for the world. Yeah. And tourism agency, get some, the travel agency to get the hotel gets the big restaurant where, you know, the girls are hired for the keys. And they Yes. And the pimp, you know, Unknown Speaker 11:03 through the institution. Yeah, it Unknown Speaker 11:05 is. There's a whole, you know, support system by the state, for example, the Ministry of Education when he went to Japan 73, I guess, he had an interview with the Japanese magazine. And he said that, well, these prostitutes are NGOs, because they are earning the Hong Kong dollars. So it's support and often college professors go to the restaurants where these girls are hired as a 500. Hire as an admin, it's 500. And they lecture than you are doing patriarch job for the country. Unknown Speaker 11:47 So is there any time for anti sexist tourism movement among Korean people? Well, in 73, a Unknown Speaker 11:57 bunch of EVA women's university students, my school, went to the key port airport thinking, you know, those tourists and in response, the Japanese women, they got organized, and they had a demonstration and I have worked also. And, you know, there has been, yeah, growing awareness, and also church in the United it published a survey report about those prostitutes, especially those involved in sex tourism. Exploitation system. Unknown Speaker 12:38 You want to discuss just thinking about and about prostitution, China? Is it restricted to certain areas of China, and how was how was more urban than rural. So it's more than the special economic zones that it will be in the nones, but in regular cities, especially those parts of China that have been opened up for UN in which foreign trade and investment is very much encouraged and special breaks are given for foreign trade investment. And the notion is that this will be part of China's economic reform, the network of reforms that were introduced starting in 78, and that continue now and which are Vietnam is also adopting some kind of those and some people might argue that Gorbachev's restructuring even over something to the Chinese example, but I wouldn't push it that far. So yeah, it is in some areas and not and not others, but it is very much disapproved. And we one difference might be between Korea and between South Korea, Thailand, and Vietnam and China is that in the case of Vietnam and China, there is no government official would say you're doing great things from country setting is it's considered a social problem. There are various explanations for it to emerge in some reasonable and some a little bit off the wall and still there's an effort to explain it. Punished China Yeah, it's against the law in Vietnam I'm sure it is also against the law but I don't know what Unknown Speaker 14:24 such must be it must be Unknown Speaker 14:27 certainly a challenging and so but it's I mean, it would be nothing like in Bangkok it is absolutely open it is part of the tourist package. And Unknown Speaker 14:39 it's Korea and but it is again is it against the law? Yeah. So there is no government there's a periodic police. Oh, the prostitutes, but those to those prostitutes who deal with the tourists are special, you know, they are protected. They go to you know, the regular or sanitary HMA isn't as big and it's really it's usually hidden. And there are certain districts like, you know, in front of the chimney on the train station. And before it has been the whole area, the main street in downtown Salt was the ministry. But now it's more like as a form of restaurant. And usually it's a Korean restaurant, big restaurant house and ordinary people do not go in there. Yeah, that's so it's from the kitchen die, except the local press the back area and the local trustee. If you pass by, you know, then the woman will pull your arm Have a rest. Even when the male goes with a female that's true. Unknown Speaker 16:03 It's illegal here to put them all out. Unknown Speaker 16:07 I was worried about is this 808? Here. Unknown Speaker 16:12 It's the main concern is lack of animal in prostitution area. And the government's or I mean, authorities reaction about this tourism monies issue is just letting them have these others prostitution business and let them also have some care about AIDS like, you know, that they use condoms or all those really conservative way to deal with these issues. And they're going to stop this constitution business for much Unknown Speaker 16:46 presidential in a country like Vietnam, like a to be absolutely devastating. Because there's so little money for health anyway, that the happy spin it on kind of preventative programs or educational programs or whatever. So perhaps there's some hope there that that the AIDS epidemic can be continued. With China, from what I understand started to starting a program of checking people. Isn't that they immediately? Unknown Speaker 17:20 It's yeah, it's it will become? I'm not quite sure. In terms of the progress of AIDS, but in terms of progress, as success is you would call it Yeah, right. Yeah. This is he has been a you know, diminished. After is deleted after 1949. But now it's yes, the column is up. Again. Yeah. So this part can show that the new industry perhaps we can use the word industry. But it's Unknown Speaker 18:09 in China, it may not yet be an industry, right. So college level or maybe putting out system so to speak. But what the do you feel looking at the experience of other countries and other movements, that in the case of the Korean women's movement, its connection with movements for broader social reform, retain a clear sighted feminist grasp of the issues with respect to women, or young, do you think that that's very much a part of the consciousness? Unknown Speaker 18:53 Yes. Clear? Yes. And until 1970s 60s and 70s? Well, 74 was the year that a group of women got together and they issued a declaration of human being as women, you know, and then during the rest of the 70s, there has been growing growing awareness of women's problems from the perspective of sexism, feminism, but there were a whole bunch of other middle class conservative women's organizations, which was basically has been doing programs for the advancement of status. And there has been a sharp division after 98 that those conservative women's organizations just you know, they do all kinds of courses, classes, candlemaking, you know, photographing all kinds of middle class, women party things and sometimes lectures and On one side of this movement, side, there has been no more awareness about feminism. And I still remember in one of the seminars that I was in, in 76, we have been discussing whether, which has the priority and democracy are women's issues. And, you know, there has been debate, and our conclusion was, we cannot separate it, you know, that's two issues, it should go together. And we cannot guarantee that even if we achieve democracy, it will not guarantee women's issues. So there has been a clear sense from the start within the movement circle that this should go together. But from the workers movement, during the standards, for example, there's going to tie workers have that kind of, you know, say do a deal, it did not start as a female consciousness, because their survival was the immediate issue. But in that process, because they experienced that, whenever they have a kind of strike, or you know, those labor movement activities, they have been crashed between male and female workers. And it has been male worker, which tried to suppress those female worker co workers. And they were usually bought out by a company, as I told you, and, you know, there has to be all kinds of horrible stories like that we have to compare confectionery company, when they had to struggle for their eight hour work, which lasted about a month, and only, you know, female workers joined that movement. And the man workers were hired by the company and they radiate the females, workers, when they finished their core kind of went home, you know, they were wearing the grease, gloves, and then they just, you know, put all the twists into their hands, and they get those female workers up. And there has been all kinds of really horrible stories. So there has been confrontation, and also they, the female workers feel, and could see that there has been sexism in the workplace also. And usually the members, opposite periods, and even if they are co workers, there has been low talk and all kinds of, you know, harassment and physical violence. So in that process of their struggle, or their, you know, better working conditions, their consciousness as a woman, and that is why there have been separate association for female workers. Now, why they cooperate in the Labor Association, together with men, but they felt the need Unknown Speaker 22:59 that Association, the Association of Korean female workers was founded in 1890 9187. And is that reason? Unknown Speaker 23:08 March 8? Unknown Speaker 23:11 And, and it's it this is a non Christian, this is not Oh, Unknown Speaker 23:15 it's not like this. It has been founded by the active women leaders in the past, Unknown Speaker 23:23 since by union activists, yeah, Unknown Speaker 23:25 female women activists who are married, and, you know, usually the female workers dream is because of, you know, the word graduation. Yeah, I can, you know, I want to get married and get out of this horrible situation, but they realized that, you know, what else you know, they can marry only working with male, and if you know, the whole situation, if they cannot fight the sexism, because usually male dominated and they, you know, have to spend their most of their time into child rearing and housework and you know, if you do not fight against sex, you cannot really change your situation. So, there has been whole, you know, awakening for my students, if you will, within middle class women within working class women with a world class woman, as you see in this cartoon, you know, Unknown Speaker 24:20 who I meant to ask you what the source of the cartoon Yeah, Unknown Speaker 24:24 this is from an article which was published in one of Asian yellowfin magazine, and the woman who wrote an article that is inserted in that article, and she was also involved and she went into the prison, and I don't know who actually do Unknown Speaker 24:47 not know but it appeared in a women's magazine to do on so many Asian, Unknown Speaker 24:52 Asian it's published Asian theologian, but I cannot cite the fact I should get As I love this one, yeah. So, you know, there's a clear understanding what brings the whole oppression to the farmer as a whole. And then within that they also see the, you know, women's problem. And that applies to a whole other areas, rural women, for women, working women, middle class woman, of course, do not have this, you know, economic oppression, but there's just, you know, awareness in the whole area. So that's why they put political struggle, because they do if they do not fight the import of foreign agriculture, which, you know, is the main cause of economic strain, they cannot really elevate the role woman positions. So it's a double fight prior to Unknown Speaker 25:53 the move here, from talking about fair trade down to trade, the same rights and stuff, separate countries for trading? Well, Unknown Speaker 26:03 that's a whole different issue, because United States has been losing the trade war against Japan. Yeah, we're in trouble. And that pressure is coming to the more small countries, Taiwan, Korea and Singapore and you know, so that there has been great pressure since the latter last half of last year to open Korean market to American industries. Which one? Yeah, and cigarette is a big one. And there has been no more pressure. So now the government agreed to open the Korean market for American cigarette, and they even orange. Well, we don't just wait. Yeah, there is no cigarette commercial on TV, because the cigarette company is a monopoly by the government. So there is no need. And now the American companies are pretty American government putting pressure that there should be a commercial on TV. And they also put pressure to lower the price of the cigarette pack of cigarettes, which gives a lot of impacts to the rural farmers who grow the leaf for the cigarette tobacco. Yeah, we may as our own we do not. And it applies to meet many times we import American from as well as from Australia. Rice is one of the big items. And there has been all kinds of scandal involved in terms of rice importing. And so Korea, Korea is victimized. Yeah. And so there has been those stages of demonstrations by the Yeah, bombers. Yeah, I was watching from Oklahoma side against those. And recently, about three weeks ago, there has been five college students who went to into the American Cultural Center in Seoul, to express their opinion as kind of anti Americanism again, and among the five one was the Eco students, one of the female, and they are all now in prison. And two more was charged as many plating behind the scene. So it's a real big issue now. Unknown Speaker 28:33 So So Korean farmers dem organizing, demonstrate against importing American agricultural products, and American industrial workers make every effort to organize and to express the resentment of the import of Asian manufactured. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 28:52 while they are filling factories in rather parts of Asia and sort Unknown Speaker 28:59 of contradictions. Yeah. So yeah, the worry Unknown Speaker 29:01 was point of view. I think there should be real solidarity and you know, Unknown Speaker 29:07 well, that's not that's the problem. And that that's what it was taught me. I could say, Yeah, we lost the company. 11 GM plants in this country. 30,000 employees, and they opened up the plants in South Korea, and our people, American workers are talking about this. Unknown Speaker 29:25 I heard that. Yeah, we're losing. Yeah, I saw that. He was Unknown Speaker 29:30 talking to protectionism. Biggest that's, that's a no no. But what some others are saying is how about fair trade? Now he I don't trust what goes on here anymore. You know, I'm looking at this. But I know that we're getting hit hard. And, and so people are tormented, fair trade. But then I heard Unknown Speaker 29:51 I think that yeah, that issue of fair trade should be related to the fact that a lot of multinational US companies are I'm making money out of Korean labor as well as in other parts of Asia. And I heard that one GM company manager level person saying that if you have a strong labor union activity, we will move our plants to other countries. So they are using it and that's where we're at. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 30:22 I know when when Korea gets really strong unions, those plants are gonna go to Unknown Speaker 30:26 Yeah, that's what that's Unknown Speaker 30:29 you know, I saw that they Unknown Speaker 30:31 would do that. Our governor of New Jersey wanted to get tax abatements when New Jersey plants we thought that was great. So we found that they were moving these this place they were talking about we're not in New Jersey, they were in Taiwan. So why don't we can tax the workers in Taiwan I don't even hear now. Much Selena Unknown Speaker 30:50 but the use the use of you were workers was deceptive. They're not giving tax abatements Unknown Speaker 30:55 to wizards back to the owners and Unknown Speaker 31:00 all going around and now three gold star company which makes Gold Star TV are building factories in the United States as well, a Japanese actress so Unknown Speaker 31:15 well, I mean, we all realize the internationalization of capital but not the proletariat. That is the situation rolling. And that is I mean, this is a fitting not to conclude on because that's a woman's issue. Oh, yeah. At least isn't my as much as it is anybody. Want to thank you a great deal from both speakers and for the questions. And I'm certainly enjoying the session Unknown Speaker 31:45 too. You do want to try Unknown Speaker 31:53 next year, Unknown Speaker 31:54 next year Unknown Speaker 32:01 or the industry. Unknown Speaker 32:05 You have to use lead this campaign Unknown Speaker 32:07 rhetoric by Jesse Jackson next to the elected GM plant 30 employees are open and Unknown Speaker 32:20 finished, then it needs a new day.