Unknown Speaker 00:00 They were a little concerned about the size of the project, they just thought it was too big, that to get enough aid, given that it was at that point in a reasonably secure area, but it meant getting a lot of aid. And I rely a lot on making sure some of those making some anonymous. So there was a debate about the advisability of setting up such a big project, because you needed a lot of infrastructure to support 70,000 people. And you know, nothing was there's nothing, it wasn't as if they could start over same orders and irrigation schemes, start working, literally, open, barren, dried out land. But Mozambicans show up, they could do it. Since then, I gather, and I haven't been able to turn this up to Desmond, but then that error has also been, so that it's not enough. So this is one of the problems is that, you know, they really want people to move on to the refugee camps, they see the refugee camps as transitional. But there's very little alternative, the amount of money that needs to go in to set up this house. And that's one of their main pleas for evidence is to give a set up to be said, to have decent resettlement communities. That actually will be looking to get in. And then ultimately, it's very strange Unknown Speaker 01:36 sort of check themselves. So that's I mean, that's the girls but the very few cases that they're actually talking about. Also exposes locations mean, in terms of being a woman journalist, just in terms of being a general it's a sort of congregated in any sense. I think, for any journalist who goes in and I started because you're going into a different situation I Portuguese was poor, it wouldn't have helped, particularly in a lot of the rural areas. And I usually could travel with somebody because we were going to have a good discussion. There's always the problem of you know, I, because I was there have extended periods and never tried to try to avoid. So going in and doing and I spent a week in one village, so really kind of picking up. So that, given that there's always a problem of crossing cultures, and really understanding, I think, as a journalist is best if I could address that situation. I think I was better off. But part of that was because of preventing sexism. Which is, I mean, it's like, of course, we let you go. I mean, he really insisted on saying that religion crazy, but you can do it in a mountain mountain system, he didn't have an entourage of 10 people, because it'd be something important, and everybody in every circle structured wonder company was personally, I wasn't that important. And that did happen running my trip to the north, run of Manchester. I mean, any one it was always cool for disaster, because that didn't go with his entourage. I kept on insisting on this when it was meant. But even in some sense, it was seen as flattering, you know, it wasn't that they wanted to impose on my time they wanted to show you know, they were being very generous and helpful and wanted to make sure that the financial system people, which you know, the interviews I did and kind of never worked. You know, sometimes you get a few little tidbits. But the end is that I really got a lot of discovery. This is this village that I went to twice and spend a week one time in about four days with a woman inspection guy. And we just stayed in somebody's house. And we just talked and when she knew what I wanted to do, and sometimes when Things went down in Michigan. So she often got into stories, I got a better sense. Unknown Speaker 05:10 And I felt very welcomed. One woman was the Secretary General The name was there, and my grandma's name. I wasn't you my granddaughter seemed to me that people really wanted to share their experiences. Unknown Speaker 05:43 And I'm sure it's just a different way in which it wasn't stored. I don't go into it for that. Not what I'm interested in. Then in the north, when I went back in 1983, and this was actually my mom was traveling, experienced. And I went with a friend and spoke Portuguese to NASA, which is a Northern Province where a lot of people have been sent out and included. I can't answer this question in short ways. Expensive. There was a program officer from the salvage operation production, which basically said in 1983, that, that Maputo, there's a crisis was there's a real question. There's a drought in the countryside, people come into the great city had just managed the rationing system to be able to support all people living in the joint consumer cooperative, you had a card every week to win, but your actions were variable. It was enough to see whatever family was registered, just family would come into the city wouldn't look, family collaboratives card for six was included. And I mean, this was not unusual. And there was a real drastic situation. The food equipment character, a lot of human employed, there's a lot of attention around. What what Dyneema then decided to do or the government decided was to decide who would be classified, whatever was classified as non tobacco will be sent to the rural areas where there was a lot of work that there's a lot of need, particularly in case like NASA, which is a very good province, very underpopulated second to work and agriculture, and would not be over pressured by population any longer and people in the agriculture of course, this was not very comfortable. That said, but it's actually very popular, because they never got desperate. I mean, now the level of desperation is different, but at that point, store a lot of things together. It was a very advanced program, and ultimately, it begins here. Unknown Speaker 08:19 Ultimately, they had, the government has totally acknowledged that this was not advice, what advice what it did was just give vent to a lot of corruption. So exploitation of people in the sense of somebody had a grudge, but he was in a position to listen, you know, wasn't all that widespread. If somebody in a position of authority would not like x person, they would say this person non productive, and they'd be rounded up, basically, you had produce a rent receipt. And then because a work permit you know, either tool or at least one of their own merits. So that you would prove that you, you know, had been in acquitted for a long time. Because it's easy in a sense, if you look at the manual can lead anywhere interesting receipt, they don't have an ID card for maturity, they don't have a job, what it clearly numbers, they expunge it, they can't prove that they were conducted work. So they sent on how do you apply the definition to more women have in common all managers and manage, so they don't have a match? They don't call it an interesting. They mean, there's no way you know, it's very easy for women to be wrong. We're actually living in common law marriages with children and then suddenly over spilt because they can't produce a lot of people were having again, they were graduating and so on. The stories I heard was, you know, the head of some local authority in Aragon sleep with an ever accused nurse. She was sent away on this program last week, really, that's regret, but at the time, this is an act of desperation that they thought, ultimately, no sort of rigid way in which you can send people into production. But it was, again, very, very hard for women. To get back to being a journalist that reasons Hanuman and I went up to NASA and wanted to interview women. And we knew that there was she could speak Portuguese, and most of them included this reporting. So there was no need for a an interpreter. So we would say, also, we, we didn't want it, we've been advised not to go and say that what we have come forward into lot of tension. But just to say, we wanted to go to state funds, which also we were interested in Chicago villages, and any of those places, there were people from random sitting up for CME groups. So we do interviews with regular people that have been moving in a long time. And then. And when it came to appear from the 30, we just said that we, you know, women are very hesitant about talking in front of men, and this is going to be very heartbreaking stories, really speaks Portuguese to Michigan, our problem, thank you very much, you know, we already the need to intervene. And in most places at work, I mean, I didn't think there would have been a possibility of any man coming in, and we'll be able to argue, because they man would have possibly been seen as a threat, because they would have been presumed to be part of some type of expose. Oh, that would have been wanting to be in on it. That would have again, been this entourage, one place we had very well. And we finally did convert since we got married children should have been rounded up to 16. She looked all the best. I mean, there were just a lot of problems. And that also was linked with the repression of single mothers, because there was a there's a sense there is there tends to be a criticism of single mothers as being loose women are prostitutes, that single motherhood is a social problem. It's not something you do, actually. So that, you know, if you've been in a relationship, you had a child and you decide that's fine, and I want the child and that's not seen as a reality. The woman's been abandoned in their access to income chests for return to the positive. Unknown Speaker 13:12 If someone seems and this was very pronounced, and yes, it is taking some of these women. And it's hard to tell them and again, yeah, it's probably an outside a current period of people wanting to tell us stories, because I hope that somehow we will get back in and this is frustrating thing. We we went actors, we were just coming to hear the stories that people hope that you know, we will take the story back. So it's really actually when I didn't have the class, the I talked to the government and they talked. And it was really not possible to follow through. I'm sure some of the stories were the distorted but the basic reality was that auditions and I mean, then NASA have now been split up from this is one of the mistakes. And I've heard also the number of people that sent up as important as they could to the distribution. But it wasn't it wasn't. I mean, one of the encouraging things about it has happened a number of times. Once they decided they made a mistake that tell the world and they won't cover up the agricultural policies and some of the statements made by the top leaders have Unknown Speaker 14:32 their first party congress out of hand agricultural policy today but unfortunately, sometimes not seen enough in this case other events Unknown Speaker 14:56 they, I mean, certainly in terms of people that are willing to have managed to get some education temporarily. Not exclusively. And so we're you know, there's quite a high percentage of women that work in the government industry. So civil service positions, which requested education. The majority of people were living with viruses shantytowns as the setup of the Portuguese, big cement cities what's essential. Cancer is the virus. And it's men city, there were never any Africans, very few number have managed to become civilized, civilized, speak Portuguese, that episode and income that belong to a church that Unknown Speaker 15:51 even the stories you heard about that also people knocking on the doors. There's been people that have purpose and logistics status. And they would see a woman can do door to door she's had a cup of bone to wander around the waist and she wasn't ticketing, issues, investigation, she came into western Nikon. So then a lot of the situation for women in the virus is very hard because it was sent to a lot of them have mashanda kills to work in the rural areas, which maybe just are struggling to breathe, and they were up and go there for certain number of months a year. And they're needed for a surface and be able to get an income to help them whatever standard of living. Unknown Speaker 16:57 Yeah, when it says it's Ganesan a difference in the north and southern North because it was so influenced by the war when it began begin. In the urban areas, conditions of day bathroom. I should I think ultimately, this probably is at least two different kinds of difficulties. is very good. Unknown Speaker 17:34 Single mother with two questions together. And I'm sorry, there was a question that would run out this setting. So just wondering is there a different way that people look at it? Unknown Speaker 17:53 Or is it a different kind? Yeah, actually, that I think is very important distinction in rural areas, it's not that common, because people will be in mergers. And there'll be an arranged marriage and cultural support for that. And to move out of that marriage is often very hard. And if they do, what they tend to do is to go back and everything so that they then integrate it into a different extended family. That which is not to say that just doesn't have isn't supporting themselves. When I visited the state farms and interviewed women who were employed in the state farms and a full time basis, invariably, with single mothers being abandoned by their husbands who didn't know they're coming back to work, trying to find a way to survive. Just wondering, Unknown Speaker 18:54 again, single mothers in urban areas, then a number of different ways. It's very, very common for women to have a company or as I say, and be involved with women for very brief time. I mean, the stories you heard about men all the time, how the disregard for women, sleep with women. And even when I talked to women in factories, three or four children. They'd be very angry at men because they would feel that they didn't let on it wasn't that they would just use women, that there was a tendency to accuse them. They sit and I'm embarrassed, because obviously a lot of silos are supporting each other. But it was it was much more prevalent. And then in the rural areas, what I found in one of the factors which was very interesting, was that women had come to the cashew factories, which were the factors that had the worst conditions of all, eating many of them working very very hard but it comes down to his own pace to work and earn some money to pay back and that often they've been beaten by the man or the man from South Africa and never come back or they've been abandoned or maybe some real strife and conflict in the family and it took tremendous courage for these women to say I'm not contacting anyone I've been gone standard job work their pay back to the board very tough and and when I talk to them, you know, a lot of them are unnatural turns into a company career and I'd say when I interviewed about 10 Women one of them said that she she had a company error and that she wanted a company and although he asked me to stay with her because he had another way, she still needed the idea and a woman has to have a man she said Have a plan to say society it wasn't like saying that I needed to get in this society. Or every other woman said I don't want to get married again. I mean, because choice when this was the point where just saying single motherhood was never considered a choice I mean was never respected as a choice. These women were saying yeah, I might want to thank you very much or so my my sisters and I had four sisters and they're all married and had such a hard time that I just decided I never want to fit in and they wanted children that had a lot of perspective yes Unknown Speaker 21:54 we're talking about NAFTA I'm struck by what you're describing is released to society, what is your relationship with the types of cancers that I started thinking about that you seem to be describing something besides on one one person those are the topic. But then you also criticized the lack of when you're always racing we have 67 days the question is is ready to move? I did run a couple things to show people to discuss wasn't his Unknown Speaker 23:42 book but I want to mention them because they bring up this issue of what is the Unknown Speaker 24:04 what is its relationship to my age? And my age did they discuss this and how did they see this? Are you concerned that they're continuing the relationship is that extended to construction companies on Unknown Speaker 24:31 it know what happened in 83 there was a book by Congress because it was that you know, sort of defining themselves as my skin Unknown Speaker 24:54 is raising a lot of points. I'm just going to try and be brief But maybe I mean other people have said it is to take on the loss of the relationship to women's organizations. And I had some problems with the women's organization. Personally, the way I looked at it, I spoke to my son vacancy was the same. specters was that is too much of an organization, and had become not even been intended, but it had become an organization with someone, indeed, that the woman that got to the leadership, although there are many that come out of factories and other authoritarian backgrounds, present background, had, by the time they'd been in the organization, a long time been living to become narrowed in terms of work. And I felt that there wasn't a strong enough ongoing tend to really keep making the national RNN, which is included with the rest of the country, with very definite exceptions, such as the preparation for Unknown Speaker 26:07 the Women's Conference, the extraordinary. And then, I mean, I think there was a lot of help from people Unknown Speaker 26:16 that actually was becoming stronger. And this was taking a stand on women's issues. And I think part of the problem that may be is that in 1976, it was the second one's organization, which was very, very important, because it set up for the next decade, or for the next period, how they would tackle the question of women's liberation and some very, very stirring important statements. But one of the things was happening was that the leadership of the organization was totally purged. And they deleted redistrict was criticized for coming out of bourgeois background, people who lived in the cities who hadn't been part of the FEMA organizing, who had were opportunistic, basically. And you know, things show speech, it's a people would be organizing circles too. So tablecloths and embroider a nice table class, but if you look at the hands of most, most vegans, they don't even have a table. So it was obviously geared not towards reality in terms of what kind of training or kind of program. So it's very critical, and they were the ones organizations are so critical, criticized heavily by some of the provincial one would come in shocked that there was I wouldn't say it was replaced, because I think there was a time in which there was going to be elections. Send it out disgrace, which is that this isn't the direction of the ones organization. But I think what it might have done was to also install a certain amount of nervousness in the people that have placed the leadership organization and a bit of insecurity in terms of how they vendor for organizations, it's very, very close to them. It's not by any sense, an economist, like Nicaragua seems very different. I think, I don't know very much relevance, maybe that came up independently and then approached the party is an important element, what are you going to do about it, rather than the party, which is mainly male, coming forth with in a very fun, ideological approach coming out in the sense of a revelation of the change of saying that clearly women's organization is needed, we really need to get to the woman and what you need is a much stronger two way process, which Lemo facilitated this, which was very important, wonderful. In countries, we have a government in a party that is so supportive, you could do something. But on the other hand, you also need someone's organization is going to take a board that also is willing to criticize from him and more strongly. I'm not sure about that. As a Christmas thing on Madison is one issue. There's a lot of debate about it. And there's a lot of criticism in omm about where the party is handed to someone to deal with that. But I don't want to over emphasize this in a moment. Again, I'm sorry, I've picked up and it's one aspect and and it's probably the aspect in which I'm most proud of, and a wide spectrum of the books coming out in October. So it's one it's one aspect. You know, and it's something that disturbed me rather than being censored or fixated on that and that then negates everything else. That's not the case. And certainly, at least what I'm trying to explain by talking about single manual or operation production or uniforms, or the container This ligament is very complex and interlinking of politics and economics and social attitudes in terms of how you said about this, and how extraordinary they come with a most impressive set of criteria in terms of how you have to manage struggle, the patient. And the I mean, there's just always things to compare between some of the personality of Michelle in the first place, you know, into the way in which the women's organization did or did not pick up certain questions because of another context. And then those things are just, you know, very complex. And I think that maybe tendency amongst us and I think I went to crap, so that turns originally me whenever it came, so particularly, if it's the sort of thing when you see things pick up, there was this wonderful state rule. Now, I wanted to see how it was in operation, and, you know, not sort of looking too much. Because I wasn't expecting, as more naive, bedtime hasn't been back to Mozambique a number of times, against complexes, not to mention South African, just even if they didn't have South Africa. So I think, you know, just to get back to what, it has been a hesitancy on the national level, to really disabling them. And these are the things we want to push for and all these things you don't want to we don't want your sounds. Unknown Speaker 31:20 In the rural areas, it was quite different than the way it's the strength of the ones organization, especially early days. And the middle villages, earning was very strong, very present, occasionally involved, and they almost continued, despite the national organization. Now, there was a sense of it reveals in the five minutes and leaving in the statements and taking it into anything that you want to do. And when it came on the track, to do things, that show that you can do. This Unknown Speaker 32:13 think that's been one of the times nationalization and the way in which more laterally, Mnemosyne, the role of women, which is to support the state program. Part of which will be, you know, women will be obviously in that, because it's a total, except that when you look at it, and that you and there are special problems, you know, and you can't just say, you know, everybody's got to be educated, and everybody's got to have skills, training, etc. And there's going to be equality and law sets, you know, that it's all equal. If, in fact, it I take into account that they're all very different to the way men protected women are much, much greater percentage of women, illiterate women, what does it mean for women to become literate compared to a man. And women have less time in the day to spend another two hours, which is meant, to some extent, speak Portuguese, or literacy and Portuguese? I mean, there were a lot of these kinds of things, which, you know, there is a tendency, and if you look at some of the girls, like every year, there'll be a goal for that year, in terms of one's organizational youth organization audit. And what it's tended to do lately has been to sort of reaffirm the overall goals for the country. Rather than say, you know, these are the overall goals, this is how we're going to enter that. And that's where I think the ones organization could be very strong, is to take that as gospel funders. Terrific. Now, let's see how did they really reflect on what would we have to do in order to make this a reality? Because it's not the same and it just seems to be a bit of that lack of understanding and never was severed? We've told them that you know, we're giving them the resources etc. Let's just go and do what they want. But I think that collectors if they if it was substantive and taking off in a way that for him was was quite complex, except that it went with them, you know, really mobilized including also conveying and they couldn't go if there was a mass support of some new programs for women the Lima one has to be more comfortable but as long as they setting ideology, and the women are not resisting and make it seem that that's fun Unknown Speaker 34:30 especially now especially non and this is, you know, it was interesting. I just end on this one is that what was your last question? Yeah, I think which television Unknown Speaker 35:15 yeah thank you for Unknown Speaker 35:25 joining us in this Unknown Speaker 35:37 video I mean, I think you know what you're saying to an extent is true, that's particularly true now because of the devastation. I think also, you're right is that I mean, if you look at the role of peasant women in history and in Mozambique, you can see it, I mean, people have done this the worst person to interview is to say, sense of this is that university, there's been a number of oral history projects going on. It's just that the sense in which women are paid to be versatile, you know, they will, they'll start growing some crops, others won't succeed, they'll try something else. And there's a constant sort of movement, it's not just is it static sensing is one way to plant is one way to produce this, there really is a constant movement and learning from each other techniques within the limitations of what is around trying again, to fund the disease in a different way of having this one I'm hearing from some districts that would work better the other way. And you know, basically, they said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. I just wanted to emphasize Yeah, but and then so then you know, you do have you know, the woman sitting under the trees and and refugee camps really, really devastated and you have women in the green zone so you're just doing tremendous work in terms of changing their lives. It's not just the fact that both these things are going on as we just wonderful stories to talk to them. Now we are finished in tears, where was the most devastated province, I interviewed women and their returns are 40 carpenters and 30 men mr. president of one I've been working here and I earn an income and I can get food for the family because they buy to be cheap in the day harvest and then there's a consumer confidence and they get things reduced in this clothing store and then suddenly actually can't get very easily anywhere else in tears when it comes to number of returns versus shopping. And her husband had been laid off and just said he just sits at home and he doesn't do anything and I come to work and I produce and then I harvest and I take a food bag and I bring him closer to the children because I've been able to buy it and I'm in a literacy class and I cannot do that content and she just was running through all these things and what is he that he just sits at home as it may be? Sometimes he goes and looks for firewood but otherwise we started out with men on basic but you said it it said sort of pride myself that I have ready made something and an endless union has given me a chance to cooperate with him and you can you can sort of insist on that impacts nothing women are encouraged in this you know that kind of encouragement is very strong women just get up and do it on that level and there's a lot of personal independence Unknown Speaker 38:45 Yeah, I mean not I'm on the border knowledge yeah this is Mr. Unknown Speaker 39:12 Krishna it's so important to know I'm going to be starting with sometimes it's difficult to even have a network of people here and talk to you about it. I just read this. Unknown Speaker 39:26 What do you think we be pressed it's going to be called install a dance. Woman stabilization and change. Unknown Speaker 39:47 And the due date is October I haven't finished it yet. Because I get it all to them in four weeks. It will be coming up Unknown Speaker 39:59 soon Good evening you studied Unknown Speaker 40:22 no no I actually I I Unknown Speaker 40:27 came in because I was interested in Unknown Speaker 40:31 you know the different types of Unknown Speaker 40:37 because I'm attempting to fraud and Unknown Speaker 40:43 I'm also liking to find not just Apple phones also right now sounds like an to find out what I think is really that they are here but it was very interesting to hear everything I said I think we're doing my best know why this is what I see to me this even more stressful should Unknown Speaker 41:58 be