Unknown Speaker 00:00 Hi my name is Gina to Lamsa. And I have an Irish radio program on W KCRW. It's called the Shamrock. Sure. It's on every Sunday morning, from 10 o'clock to 12 Noon. And I basically like traditional music, I don't play myself, but most of the time and I have interviews with people, and I was asked to speak at this seminar, I must tell you or not, normally, I don't want to speak extemporize. But I was asked because I didn't know quite a bit about what's going on in Ireland. And as far as getting material from there are particular cases in here I'm talking about May basically, you should know that. I don't I can't really go into bloody history now because I'm gonna have time but Ireland was partitioned in the 1920s, after a long, bloody civil war after World dependency chapter 1916. And what was created at that time was a 26, Free State and Free Free State Republic that was quite violent. And a partition six counties statewide, of nine counties of Stark, Ulster, the nine counties for economic reasons, and others word remain nameless. And as has been a source of constant suffering and trial and tribulation, whether people in the six counties and also young people and Republican, violent, and many people believe that until there is a 32 storey Gaelic Irish Island to begin, that there will be suffering and bloodshed. Big Brother has come to an island that came there. It's been there since before 1984. But since this is the year of 1984, I thought I would just bring that out. And you'll see in some cases, as I talk, how that came about, there's basic denial of human rights, if you are a nationalist, in the six candidates, and because of the historic accident that most nationalists people are also Catholic, that the Catholic religion would make it clear, it's not religious. It has nothing to do with Catholics and Protestants for spiritual reasons. It's the old story, unfortunately, divide and conquer, which has happened so many times in history of England. Well, not just England. But this is the oldest colony of England, it's been calling for over 800 years. And so it's had a history of oppression. In the late 1960s, inspired by the civil rights movements in the United States, the nationalist people in the North of Ireland, took to the streets, and they marched with basic civil rights, many habits to be Catholic, there will also be modest people there as well. And they marched in peaceful and nonviolent protests against what they found to be your your housing conditions, and no employment like minded black men, education opportunities, and so on. And this is men and women together, because I feel that if something affects a man, you know, like some woman, it's so it's so important. And what happened was that instead of these civil rights, marches, welcomed, they were violent. And backed by the Berlusconi, at which time we support this community, the Loyalists world and to our right, again, by historic accident, most Protestant. The army came in at that time that was welcomed at that time by some nationalist people as a way of stopping bloodshed because the army the police were not supporting the Nationals. They were not protecting the Nationals. And the condition represented the city as a way to support and what happened is we know now there's been an army of occupation, which composes part of the 30,002 security forces in the north today. There is something called internment in Northern Ireland. Medicaid government workers, many people prefer to Republican people who just happen to Unknown Speaker 05:07 have the nationalist. They're in jail on the front page, newspaper articles and so on, you're a chip like quartz, which are non cherry quartz. And it's also shoot to kill policy. These are some facts. And I also like to say at the time in the civil rights marches were happening. There was virtually the IRA, the archer party, spiritually what was disbanded and still people within an Archer was not active for us. And it only came to me as a result. British American people problems and they will not be allowed to defend themselves as an answer. On its resurgence, I'd like to read to you from this letter is reports from Ireland. And it had this particular issue was from 1983 to June, and it had to do with women in parliament. They said, Well, we women have always played an important part in the struggle for justice and freedom and around. Though they rarely received recognition that they deserve, even in their own groups. British occupation environment caused a great deal of suffering. Among women when they were away from work, or in prison, or on the run, the women will have to raise their children alone and to try Unknown Speaker 06:48 to keep Unknown Speaker 06:52 during the hunger strike women, the wives, the mothers, and the sisters and friends of the residents traveled around the country and appointed men who had never traveled more than a few miles from their homes before. And they have never been addressed in public hearing, or gathering each them so they miss the most courageous women environment. With their comrades, he was in the men's prison, prison. They resisted attempts of the British government to criminalize them. Today, they continue to enter the poor American prison conditions and humiliate school searches. And that's what I'm here to talk to you next segment, women have been instrumental in supporting us and prisoners and their dependents and tenant associations and other people actually was forced into a leadership role was a court situation. Mostly because at this time, women will no longer associate citizenship, nor the traditional roles dictated by the male dominated society. They're, they're taking more active board and planning around this future and establishing equal rights for women cells. And more women are seen entering political but they're standing for election on national and local level. Unknown Speaker 08:25 Mr. John Baker's minister, made this sermon investments to 91 it was during the hunger strike, seminar about like to read it, because it indicates the present situation. No British government, whatever to forget this perilous moment like that before it is the outworking of history in which our country is primarily responsible. England sees dark material, land and Protestant settlers there to make it strategically secure, humiliated and penalize the Irish and their Catholic religion. And then when it could no longer hold on to the island, get back part of your settlers sentence a non viable solution from which surprised in some some as much as our justice creating the situation. And by constantly repeating that we will maintain it so long as the majority we should actively inhibit Protestant and Catholic organs out of new future together. That is the violence and the reasons why the protesters think of themselves as political offenders. There are during towards violence but they are not in prison for a political events and a political advance can be just someone put in prison word or a government Informant or at least I have I have some figures here. And this is from the New violence forum. So that was in the north of Ireland and I can 67 there were 686 prisms. And this year, we have proximately 2000 visitors, which is about 500, less than at its peak in 1978. That gets you a figure of 164 people in jail, or 1000 100,000 total population. This compares with two times out of France, approximately three times the amount of Italy, seven times the amount of environment and almost five times the amount of people in jail and the Republic of Ireland Unknown Speaker 10:55 have a statement here. Nutrition McGarry who was well she was born in 1989. She's from the Ardoin area of Belfast, which is a very interesting economic, social, enforced in America. Her family circumstances that she was Patricia was American, she was only 17. She was arrested, and she would now she has a brother Jack had been on the blanket protest late 70s and 80s. And she went to school she left school when she was 16. And she was arrested when she was 17 years old. Like most other in the eye doin area at that time. She was unemployed. And even though she had tried to find work that was not she had in fact and must have letters of rejection referred as applied to your state court as evidence. As Patricia Garrett's desire to find works on everybody, traditional advisor lawyers in the six counties, but she was in a very impoverished area, you know. In her statement, Patricia reveals how she was interrogated often and curious. She was denied sleep, she was interrogated at night, she was verbally abused and assaulted and threatened having family she was pushed back and forth between detectives, then one of the bosses have to push the table out. They push back and forward between them calling me names, or running my family down kept on saying things about my sisters. They shouted about mutilated bodies, and they wish that they will show you pictures. This last about an hour and a half. Back to sell. I couldn't sleep with a man light was switched on and lower than on the second day. nutritions physically, all day by both male and female, Terry Smallwood got up and got me against started slapping me on the face. She slapped me on the back of the head with garbage can. I think they use very foul language just last hour and a half. In the afternoon, she was again interviewed by men this time, both men were counseling different to the fact that she accepted. And she says fall in the corner of slap me and push me about he kept shouting in my ear and you're a murderer. He kept slapping me on the head. He said why not tell I was a member I would give us a series of constant threats, verbal abuse, physical violence to which he had been subjected throughout, accommodated finally, through the night. In aborist, shared savings. It started about 8:30pm. As soon as I walked in there, there was only one of the skinny one. Then another one came in behind him. I had never seen it before. He wouldn't let me sit down skinny one kept saying you kept it up so far, but this will break you. The two of them got me up against the wall and back against both took an arm on each side and tried to bring my arms for the shoulders. I was roaring crying, screeching and yelling. They said by the time we're finished with you, you'll need a hospital. A skinny one like go on my arm. The other one kept my arms and hands back and then flinging the other kept digging me on the head with his fist. Big one. Then gave me a great slap. I was crying. This meeting went on for an hour. They kept questioning yelling and shouting. I couldn't take my lead a terrible squeal and what do you want me to tell you? You wrote a statement and I signed it. They wrote another statement that so then another two? I think it is all lies. I just told the Unknown Speaker 14:46 doctor that told me to shout the doctor. When they did anything. Well, I did and they were that it took us about three hours. I went up to my cell that night to walk into my stomach. I called out the female attendant contended me. I have a number of choices on the inside of my forearm and this one left me back right leg right side, Patricia McGarry as a result of the treatment she received Patricia was so terrified or you see in December her mother to comfort him. This is McGarry. This describes how a 16 year old daughter wanted a nervous wreck. She was back on face, arms and neck. She had a split in a. Well, Patricia was remanded in custody of the court until February of 1978. She recognized the court and for civilian witnesses describe the girl Yvonne install star stout and dark and nutritional hearings small There they go. Nevertheless, Patricia was found guilty. And although it was brought out in court how the statement was extracted from her, these claims are rejected. And it was on the basis of the statements may that Patricia Garrity was she sentenced to 10 years. Now political status was granted his status was taken away in 1976. And his presence, and that was the basis of the dirty protest in 1976. So I don't think we have time to go into that. But I have things that I want to find out something about. What's happening right now, in harmonics prison is a procedure called strip searching. And I know that strip searching is not in and of itself, inherent to the Bible, but in the north of Ireland, where you have people who are remanded long periods of time, and they're removed, remanded. Whether as I said before, just the word of an informer is enough to keep you in jail for years. That's not an exaggeration. There are several situations both have nothing to do with. You haven't done anything wrong. And what has happened in the north is that a procedure was instituted in November 1998 To strip search procedure. And it was I have got another woman here. Catherine Ward, she is 19 and she's she's from dairy, and she was arrested and constantly paid to me to buy underwear. She's been been held since that time on. It's like, you know, this pretrial detention period progressions, which is not the word of the Civil War. Many informers, since the show trials have started the German acreage, retries have recanted their, their charges against people. So many times people spend long periods in jail, in jail, just on the word of this person to have the person denied. And that was correct, because it was the Catherine ward. She's been in jail. And she has not been charged, where he confessed that she was singled out by the establishment there were put over excessive punishment. And she's been on numerous occasions, forcibly stripped of her clothes. And she now she had been serving 30 days in solitary confinement as of last year, a year ago, she's going to be coming up for that trial. So she's already spent with us in prison, just on the word span. She has an elderly mother, but is not very healthy. And it's a whole strain on Victoria. I have some, I'd like to read you part of a speech that brought in the iceberg out of Futurism on 93, which is the anniversary of this procedure in stone. And also, when I looked into this procedure being carried out for two years, because it is character in this country environment basis. And what I find is that in prisons in general, and it's up to discretion, the prison officials show us strip search in other words, any any place you strip, people in demand side that it's necessary for security, whatever, they feel that they're going to find contraband or Unknown Speaker 19:46 weapons, whatever. In these cases, it's up to the courts pay a lot of attention. They scrutinize the Commission's regularly, but there are so it's kind of procedure that has been So apparently, he is in jail are subject officials there. This is what father Burke said November 9. Sorry, my my prison houses two classes of female presidents political prisoners, those incarcerated with the so called schedule and six associated with the Irish scope, self determination and non political events are totally 22nd it and member of the royal Ulster constabulary while Mr. Cortez was careless with kids going into my lungs by political detainee. They were so recovered from the search for the incident that virtual surgeon to quote girls entering or leaving the crib women's prison armor or winter was an admission to prison number two, on return, which is it in hospital thrown into jail visits have to undergo a complete visual examination for all parts of the body department back while prisoner stands with prison female reporters, there have been male male quarters present that types of prison chaplains current and former have testified that this type of degrading search is a completely new procedure. There was never before used in your experience in prison extended years. physical assaults followed any refusal to comply. Three prisoners were assaulted on January 4 1983. They were thrown to the ground for their legs and arms twisted and had been sat upon by the borders. They then had all their clothing dragged off at one o'clock, and one of them had her period of sanitary towels. Two of them women received severe bruising to the ribcage, arms and back and a third had to have her ankle strap is considered. One prisoner the audition was recorded on the second level, right there to the train was punched and kicked after it was in the script when she went back to herself. Another prisoner in the middle demanded to see the governor. He appeared with a large number of male and female quarters I was personally involved divorcing Filipina little factor. So, Lorraine McNichol another case, because of the painful embarrassment of having to strip naked during menstruation and hand out her sanitary towels filled with menstrual blood for inspection refused to comply. She was quote, dragged out of the cubicle by prison officers about 11 of them three Bob was thrown on the floor. They tried to pay for clothing, which resisted by kicking and struggling to have the male officers twisted her mom's behind her back on sat on her legs and another female sat on the stomach, the restaurant to close off and when this process was completed, they stood around her she lay naked and shivering on protests and made in the House of Commons and changes were made. And they included the introduction of a sort of a uniform strip searching, which separated from the front of the back, which literally had gorgeous looking at the skirts of the embellishments in the prison. I have ladies that I got it last night. As a matter of fact, it's from a young woman named marine right, and she's on demand. Your age is 23 years old. And this is her statement of December 20 1983. I had to appear in our mock courthouse across the road from jail for a remand hearing. Unknown Speaker 23:49 On my return to the prison, I was taken to the segregation where I was told to strip all my clothing by a member of the prison staff. As I had my period I asked for a member of the medical staff present. By the time the medical was I had removed all my clothes and was naked except for your underpants. I also made use of a sheet draped the medical books or gave me a fresh sanitary towel and a bag to put my own us sanitary towel into they all told me to remove my pants completely three other staff officers including the senior staff, are we scrubbing views and asked had they not seen enough? Again, the medical officer told me to remove my pants are the few saying that my cancer were supporting my sanitary towel. She then said quote, remove your pants or hold your sanitary towel in place with your hand. The quote I told her I would not carry out this disgusting request. Then medical officer and an Officer Sir, open the shape and both grab each side of my pants and force them for you just above my knees, I was shouting and struggling, they both ran out at this point senior officer was and let more disturbing medical ones Friday, December 23 1983, or he had to appear in court on a mail application. I was taking me way down to the reception area and told the script make it like a memorable presence. As I was wearing a sanitary towel, I asked for a member of the medical staff to again, present this time she arrived again after this procedure had happened when she was standing naked except for her pants. So I made use of the sheet again, she gave me a fresh sanitary towel and a bag to put in my pocket check that again, she told me to my pants and check us. This went on for a while, then the officer and the medical officer grabbed each side of my pants. And in the ensuing struggle, the sanitary towel fell to the ground, and they succeeded in proving land advance and I have been charged with assault in relation to this attack on December 21. I went to see a prison authority to complain treatment the previous day, after Tuesday, December 20. incident of December 20, my period stuck for two and a half days. And I returned the return very lightly on Tuesday night, December 22. It disappeared completely after my being stripped naked on December 28. And be mad. Again I said there's no shortage and she's in one of our former, she's likely to be there for quite some time. I'd like to finish just working on this very quick serving 12 year sentence. And Gabrielle it's called into her shoulders. You hear the voice is crying out, it's International Women's Day. Women unite, take up your fight Do not be led astray from every road and create an age or hands a class. From this hour jail will not refrain spread our Gospel Church, or women did not come from man or women in tech, but stand in full equality. And in that set. So come and rally to our cause and join it and forge ahead until we attain these women's rights and discrimination in this day. And age. Thank you very much. Unknown Speaker 27:59 I am aligned for Tony. I'm Reg living in this country for a long time. And I'm going to read to you today, excerpts from some journals written by Greek women, political prisoners, and also some poems written during that time. I'm just going to speak very briefly about the historical background simply because this information is totally, almost totally unknown. Now, in America, after the Second World War, there was a single word Greece, of course, it was manipulated, like many civil wars, manipulated by the great powers by England at the time, which wanted to have access and political content authorial control of place in order to facilitate access to a Middle Eastern it interests. Because there was a great resistance during the Second World War invasion, the the resistance was socialist, and led by communists against the Germans, the Britain, Britain wanted to totally crash socialistic army in Greece in order to achieve purposes. So the war was arranged Civil War, which lasted for four and a half years. It was manipulated to begin with by Britain, but sustained by America. After the war in 1950. We had almost four decades of extreme right wing governments in Greece. And unfortunately, the devastating aspect of US government as well was that there were disguised as democratical. Nobody really had any idea that these governments were oppressive, and that there were hundreds or 1000s of political prisoners everywhere, that once rights were a danger anytime if you Read the wrong books. And you said the wrong thing. But nobody knew that because it was all on the Democratic guys. And of course, because, again, it was it was needful by America this time. Well, then, I was introduced in 1974. And then quite by chance, well, sort of by chance, I came across a woman appointed report, your name is Victoria. I read the report, it was a very exciting to me at the time, because the subject of her poems were women in those concentration camps, women who resistance and who had eventually being impressed. Also, when I met her, she was editing those journals, I immediately I became very excited. And this thing was totally missing here, as well as ingredients me nobody knew about things like that. Nobody had written about the women's struggle, expression. And now these people after the war as the Civil War, and after the Socialists were crashed and raised, many were killed, and many were put in circulation camps and prisons, all these lovely Greek islands, you know, that many of you probably have visited or planned to visit and hear the situation. People live there for many, many years under terrible conditions. Well, the people who were in prison were all forgiven them. An alternative initially to that is to sign a prepared statement of repentance, it was called Declaration of Independence, wherein they compute their internal struggle, their comrades, their beliefs, strangers degrees, it was something like the McCarthy's The people had to sign here. And of course, they promised to be law abiding citizens. And that would be of course, from then on forever on the server split. Those are many good sign because it's very difficult to endure hardship faced imprisonment and anxiety for your family, to be harassed and your hopes and your fortune will be confiscated. And many did not. Okay, men and women, men, even some of the ones inside stay as exiles in this business until many many years 97 Before when the last dictatorship of the girls military details, please help the last political prisoners were released innovate. Now, excerpts from the journalism going to be written by the women 5000 Women to begin with, and much less after who refuse to sign. Now I'm going to read the introduction pictorial route as written to the journals whose purpose this terms have been in place. And Unknown Speaker 32:56 I prepared very long paper but I think the only the best thing to do is really read the words of the women are very one sided. And this is a book which I'm doing. It consists of a long historical introduction, as well as translations from the journals and oral history of the women in the system. Since 1976 25, oh, we've got a folder I forgot. Whether I mentioned she was an exile for five years. One is concentration camps 25 years ago, right. Dr. Thorough in the preface to the journals. The women priests are prisoners of the island of trickery, decided to write an account of the wonders throughout the various reformatory camps and islands and anxiety. They decided that what they had lived through what they will still believe, must not be forgotten. It was their responsibility to be the keepers of history, as they themselves only separate constantly have been discovered. The Euro, each one of them around and around particular health. Hiding the money speaks inside the hollows who takes on closed down 97 Friends, colleagues and fellow exiles organized and pilgrimage to three. I went hoping to find traces and I remember right Unknown Speaker 34:38 and now I'm going to be upon Victoria Road. As a result of her visited regularly actually she wrote the cycle of volumes, which is called picnic and I will read from those bones. Here I leave the other women presumes the canvas as rather than the ropes, not the trace that In the world and age, walls have sprouted. I know. One of them is so the other. So written down of the leaves, the leaves don't lie. Once again, I see the snake near the wells, slithering from all the people that lie to the world. And say St. George Monster Killer in different insights Chuck spear made of me and moved the zipper all those years, the child's curves by the name of the bleeding mothers, Torrance and Washington's Purifiers, or med school into systems that help officers and the past lie and dysentery germs have arrived in North. Korea continuous says that, for him for the sake of all the women comrades you desire for the sake of remembering, I devoted the next few years in ordering copying and publishing what the women bring a change not corrected. Now, we will not like an issue these days, the journal speak in the language of the women were there to say no, that defiance, their refusal to be broken and humiliated, to succumb to the will of political enormous arms wasn't only based as a stain on ideology and political idealism. It was particularly based on the belief in their own integrity, and independence as human beings. The importance of those source documents and the parts and why I'm excited about is because they don't only recount the usual either usually counts of torture submittals or adherence when, you know, we have a lot of such documents. What this women decided to write about was their resistance to the tyranny within the barbed wire. We had fought for seven years with hangings, they were warriors also there were families apart. And there were children in the camps from hundreds of children from infants to 12 years of age, they were all women, who were the grandmothers, and the mothers of the partisans, who had refused to impute the identity of these women in the poetry they wrote during the interim, and in the documents and in the art that came out of it, they really celebrate their existence. So what this documents tells us, they tell us that the women are denied they were put in these horrible islands to be broken and humiliated and degraded as human beings. So there were they did find in themselves for the first time. The only man in their life with the gems and the gods that were meant, but they do they harness their resources. They, they expanded all their energy, they discover their belly, and they created a microcosm, really, truly miraculous Society of Women Against unmitigated oppression, they can struggle very hard against personal punch. So they decided they needed a child center because their children were roaming loose and they were not given any guidance inside either child's make times they decided, well, either way to fix it. Again, get so excited. So they're very important to me, and I think I have a tendency to get excited Okay, the subject Victoria Theodoro in the ticket editor, this is what's right, she writes about the first reaction that women find their time Unknown Speaker 39:05 with this is what suspects the more they tried to fantasy, the more we struggled to break Grothman in the barbed wire to basically take care of the sick. When the fields inside the fence were leading garbage lamps. In the water in the cabinet table, pushed barbed wires. We build out houses far from the pet. Basically what we have routed the fence blocking the path to wealth, so we no longer had to pass by the guard and listen to the guards on the insults. The more they are present, the more they restricted us. They break through our anger in fines, raise individual privileges, they allowed us for good behavior, with books unrelentingly making donations to the group worker. We always pay nearly as individuals with a bat for them forever success we had as a group solitary confinement meetings and additional personal restrictions. When they realized that their children were running, while they were in danger of being have been hurt and gone hungry, and without totally neglected, they say the child center was necessary. On a blood dose and distance we began with a large square space under the shade of volume to spread over and sand pebbles, gather whatever, fine, which could conceivably be considered a toy, that we add things we ourselves a fighter in the children's imagination, provide or whatever else was missing. And children were at the center of Romania. Besides reading, writing, math, history, etc. They learned songs, games, dancing, and gymnastics. They also because they were, they had been exposed the women to play the probations, during the resistance of the street against the Germans in the civil war. There were there were a lot of them were very ill tuberculosis, ulcers, liver diseases, gynecological diseases are very ill, and the capital goes in and provide health care. So again, they decided they're going to build their own medicine, there was a heart, they built a Washington bypass that there were doctors or nurses involved, and they took care of their own music, then the next thing they realized they had to do was to exclude the very sick and the very old, and the children hardly. So that was another thing. They struggle with men, many, many months were champions, because the guards were unrelenting. But finally, they managed to do, then they realize that they cannot, they have to really survive, not only, you know, survive their lives, but their intellect, and emotionally they had supply. And they realized that their important thing for that was to have some leisure, a live demonstration camp was made. So they were given knowledge. It was constant chores, constant harassments, everything was a struggle. So they formed groups, and they signed wage differential. So they had rotating chores. And they had time each group had time to devote personal time to thinking, just setting the tone in each other. And then, after they took care of the practical aspects, they they realized that they had to do something about education, they found that education is very important. Among them, there were about 1000 women who don't need it. So they reached out to them first. And this, how she describes it will reach out to them first, it was very moving to witness was enthusiasm and patience. And in the beginning without any pencil papers. They learned based on the letters in the sun in the field, middle age, and all women never before held the pencil began to read and write at high school students because of their resistance activity, and been exiled in that camp met the teachers then decided decided to resume their studies. Unknown Speaker 43:32 There was also Oh, yes, but they had to make their own principles, of course, because they had no tabs. So each woman who was an expert in one subject would design a book, and the others would copy them out paper they stole from the office now that they learned how to steal, you know that they learned all the tricks, and then they decided they needed some coach. So they arranged we're making new stations because women from all walks of life resigned from village women, mountain women has not read. They were poets and writers, musicians, actresses. So they they organize all the talent with plastic organization, and then they replace it. If they present the punching bag tragedies, they had the musical evenings where they they learn in some songs from all over Europe, German either dances, whatnot. Well, of course, there was eventually there was a concentrated campaign to make the women sign because many did signs rather time because the pressure was enormous. And manual whose children and husbands brothers have been killed or capture that would they relate? So the ones that remain intriguing that signing When they were removed my grandson's unconscious was a horrible Island isn't Isn't that how it was the whole time camp when fun the final solution for communism in Greece at the time was to take place there they were not clearly allowed aliens and stuff you were under constant supervision and the constant torture physical torture not rely on that. But even there they resist the resistance by refusing the commander by their by refusing to listen to the speeches, because they felt and it was their slug and was that resistance constant resistance is necessary. You must never it no matter what level was never everything is finally out of that hell 500 members last, they were taken back to to where they stayed for many, many years until they were released many years late. Now I think during the ruins of course talks about these events, actually. ones are celebration, their love, and their energy, and then resistance and I'd like to read to you some of those problems. By the way, this is a book from case number five Unknown Speaker 46:31 the first time in picnic expand on this branches I left by you the crack of dawn I plow around shrubs promotionals for years, I leave those SeaWatch hearing that over there I knelt down close to my 10 bits of broken water Charles I wrote my personal hide inside the hall of dreams. I've come back to look for my two years later against this world where they stood me up there flew to take my measurements for me now. He's in here where I was pushed down. Give me your hair. I'm like now and I wear a shirt is bright red is enough. Come over here where they made it all the Triple Thick barbed wire. Wrap the development of your arms over here. What I learned the cold nose and elevation is here's the olive tree where I was getting the 50 grams of meat and paste in dry knirsch where I stood up on a shelf down placed in the linen cloth the bread and make between here is close to the lungs. And here is one Let's eat. Let's treat the Hunger Games Unknown Speaker 48:04 boy here Yes, in this poem, I think I think this poem is really a distillation is about 10 lines of their life and what they did separation. Women by the 1000s were welding is empty, nameless I facially declared unfit for human habitation fest, yellow fever and tires. We were the first campaign this maker soil we work to get there reason we abolish Bill kills and workshops, wells wind. Here, we live down the clay that rooms because the music from there. We made a live internship. Many of these women of course, who refused to sign were summarily executed. There were court martial and execute. Most of these executed women were there between the ages of 17 to 2022. And they came from the remote villages of North Hendricks. They were simple girls who didn't have anybody to fight their case. So there were just I have a few points here like read to you how to the end they resist also the resist, of course they would have seen themselves by signing the Declaration of Independence. Well, why didn't they sign? The only answer I have is say well, why didn't then taken listen to the time and she did what she married her brother who was left out there to be eaten by the dogs by obey and another law other than the human love. She knew that she would be executed she would be put death, but she did that. So this women did that also because they obey something other than the fear and intimidation and the law that this people who had nothing to do them you know, like, as we say, now we need to make the laws why should we obey? And they did the same thing. I took these coupons from the volume of cortical 1000 where the girls and their isn't viable and whose husband was the attorney of defense during this market trials. Every night she would come home and tell her about what the young woman women said during their trials before they were executed, or what they wrote to their families. And she wrote this poem Selena says the words of this women and each each point there's the tag title the name of this video this is called Maria Weldon saw the case my future prospects anxiety about the outcome of the trial. Yesterday they announced my son's death I don't have to bother about that anymore. Now I can either say that I got through it successfully. I expected it to be thrown themselves in charge. Nothing like that. The whole thing lasted five minutes. The dark in this crowd the names of comrades were suddenly filled with peace my friends even John it looks like some of the men will get out you know I have a weakness for them. But I'm glad I stuck to my guns. I feel it's right for a struggle. So I won't death it seems like a funny thing. Even if it is that serious. I'm not big enough. Even so it makes me stop makes me a lot and I'll spit on their decision. scrap of paper that takes me out like at night step on and like the stamp of their cigar alright this is called Artemis is throw them taking Islam and Bri and co working at the dawn were in prison I prepare for these two women on Defra stayed up all night they gave me a change of clean clothes and confused so they sprinkle rose water in mind when they weighed by they promised that he would mean sorry and when they were with you they promising with me long before we met Unknown Speaker 52:53 the iron bar windows they shall wait for us where am I? Which way skill keys in our hand? Which way is the blue line? The young so for the first time on a school I don't know this place but my blood is Bill like wine in a wet get your guns ready y'all got my hair for the last lon hurry. What are you waiting for? You want to know my last week? I am 90 don't want just to end it. I would like to read the epilogue to the journals Unknown Speaker 53:43 which is again written by Victoria. Okay, this is what says my favorites have. But this last poll. Obviously it talks about the women and 500 100 pendant women who survived the hell of my grandsons. And they returned they would return to trickery. And they are to leave for an undetermined amount of time. Many years until they they sign but by now the women were immune towards threats impervious to everything but their own instinct of survival and solidarity. They were determined to go on creating a life for themselves, no matter where or how they put together their resources, their knowledge and then began to build again. vagary became one score behind worker the unique monastery for women. The ground sells right in whitewash, the game the shops and work. There was a studio for painters and using with the column group, where the choral group would that is the new songs In the discussion with Luke Smith, and were the keepers of records, the writers of the journals have just read, retired for their women study French, English, German of the mountains, philosophy and literature. That's how I left them in the winter of 1952 When my name was called from at least in relation to her, per se, are entirely despairing, possessed by their vision, even outside or in a compromising romance. She completed by April 1953, there were only 19 women and gods that will die. In September, they were relocated, I study where they need for many, many years, mainly manage today, make it a screen based location as walk along its beaches. And under the crochet timelines, sadness of the monastery. Cypress is a where everyone gathered to become alive since the rising sun racism as ever again. Of course, there's a for sale. Unknown Speaker 56:16 Okay, um, if I say that, that there was no declaration of repentance available to Jews, or just as a homosexual tended not to come to that's not more to derogate the experience of those who have a choice to make the credit, the choices and the problems for women and others. And those conditions are rather different. My name is Jane Kaplan, and I teach history and I want to talk about a wonderful kind of lady house whom I've described as a woman, a jeweler resistor, on to try and keep my remarks quite short, because otherwise we went up time for any discussion. Hannah lady has, I kind of encountered quite by accident, I read her journal when it was in German, and was asked to recommend it or not the translation, and I did recommend publication in English. And then I wrote an introduction to the journal. But that's really my only relationship. I don't know that the woman person she is still alive. And what the published book consists of is two I think, are the rare documents and both individually and, and together she, she kept a diary when she was in the concentration camp of Belson, at the end of the second world war two in the middle of 1944 and early 1945. And I'm sorry, I'm going to say a bit more about what Belsen was what that meant to be, to be an inmate of Belsen at the end of the Second World War. Journals of concentration camp survivors, I think, a much rarer for concentration camp victims are much rarer than memoirs. So that's how we should talk to us in itself. Then, after the war, she was interviewed by a German journalist about her experiences both in the camp and before she was sent there, and also in her later life, and these two things are published together. So you've got the kind of double take on the time and all the women time. Unknown Speaker 58:33 Her diary, done as a diary of living in Folsom, in this period, interview, which is published with that, I think, shows us a woman that quite astonishing strength of character and power, before and after Belsen, which was the central event in her life. And for the present, and in my remarks, I want to jumble up the chronology of her life of it, I don't want to present it as a linear continuity, but join up some of the threads that are in it. I don't know precisely when she was born, but it must have been either just before or during first World War. She was born in Sarajevo. And that was then in a part of the Balkans, which was part of the Austrian Empire. At the end of the First World War, she became by virtue of where she was a citizen of a new state, Yugoslavia, which was the creation of that war. In 1948, she wants again became a citizen of a new state. I'm also the result of the war she became a citizen of Israel. And I think there's some other parallels to her. Interwar Yugoslavia was a federation of different ethnic and linguistic and religious groups Croatians and Serbians, Catholics, Jews and Muslims and so on. The Israel that she went to was or I think, in her eyes could have been also a federation of diversity. When she got off her immigrant vote in 1940 Ah, in Israel, she made immediate contact with the communist party that was her political and spiritual home. She'd never joined as a Yugoslav the reasons that I'll come to in a moment. Although she had long been a sympathizer. In Israel, her first work was doing translation works for the party. And the first text that she translated was the Israeli Communist Party's declaration on the union of Jews and Arabs. And that helped to prepare the way for the unification of the Jewish and Arab wings into a single Communist Party, and it remained the united party until 1965. Now, Lady has doesn't say much in her writing about her life and Yugoslavia before the German and Italian invasions, which reminds me 41 except to say that she worked as a school teacher. And that upon the invasion, she says, she became active in the parmesan resistance, like everybody else, said. She said, All Yugoslavs could be said to be partisans, it was completely natural and spontaneous. That's true, I think of that society. It's also true that Yugoslavia was the one wholly occupied country in Europe, which liberated itself was not liberated by by other troops that was liberated by the partisans. The extent of Yugoslav resistance gave Yugoslavs a conviction that the war would end in a Nazi defeat. And that was a conviction to which she referred I think, and her diary and Belsen in November 94. In the middle of this horror and degradation, she wrote, I'm trying to imagine what the liberation of my country will be like, and the immense happiness that will fill the new society. The thought of it almost turns my head, sitting here, in the midst of this misery and letting such visions pass through my mind. I feel as though my nerves will snap under the strain of such unbelievable happiness. Then when this tension has passed, I envisage a flood of emotion welling up, like an eruption of a volcano. And the tears that have for so long been fought back or call for such happiness would be too great too much for us to bear, because it's too much pain. I read that I think, is this a descriptive description? Well, maybe has them wasn't present at the birth of Israel. In some sense. She was present at the birth of Yugoslavia when she got back there on surviving belting it for five. She wasn't present at the birth of Israel, which became her adopted country, but she didn't respond to its creation as a way of resolving the dislocations that she felt when she was back in post war Yugoslavia. She says that back there between 1945 and 1948, quote, I felt as though I were living in a cemetery, or in the middle of a desert. And that was a comment about her private life, my family were either all dead or gone into emigration. She was also politically in a very curious situation. She hadn't in fact been active with the partisans for very long before her deportation in 1944. Unknown Speaker 1:03:19 And to those Yugoslavs, who had fought through the war as partisans or fought the war of liberation, she was only a concentration camp survivor, that was no special Status. Status went to those who would have fought in the war. As she says they admitted that we suffered, but they pointed out that we had not fought the Nazis as they had. She was left unable to join the Yugoslav Communist Party immediately. Even though all her friends were communists and her politics for those of us who are radical and socialist, the then payment event which took the balance that seems for her the open bridge between Starling and Tito in 1947 48. And that coincided with Russia support at the United Nations of the establishment of Israel as a Jewish homeland. I'm to which you go smiles, because all communists were very opposed, though. So the Russians and designers are somehow complicit in this at that point. Lady has withdrew her application for the membership of the Gasol Communist Party, and decided to emigrate to Israel. But not as a Zionist. She, she emigrated as a Jew, as a communist. And once more when she got there, all the displacements of her life and not in fact, during that, she joined the CP the Communist Party when she arrived in Israel. This made it very hard for her to get a job because she was a communist. And that problem was exacerbated for her by the fact that she was a Sephardic Jew, and she was subjected to the In discrimination by the Ashkenazi elite, and it's one of the struggles that took place for lifetime continue. The Israeli part, as I said, split in 1965, under the pressure of Arab Jewish conflict, Lady has went on to be active in the new left in Israel at the end of the 60s. And then in the feminist movement in the 1970s. In her interview, she says, feminism is to me one aspect of the universal class struggle on the part of all progressive people towards a new Humane Society, and is an integral part of the struggle. Um, but universal struggle is for her also an international struggle. She's She is a Socialist International stats on political information. She therefore opposed the October War of 1973, bitterly opposed those women who work by this time organizing this feminists and who were arguing at the time that they would not achieve equality for women, unless women also shared the fighting the war effort. Labor has repudiated that entirely, and felt that it was an entirely wrong position for women to take on and could not take part in wars in one way. Well, I've spiraled briefly and that's all the chaotic through the life. I know what to stand very briefly also in the center of it, and in the vortex of it, that was Belson. Belson was a concentration camp in Germany that from the winter of 1944 until liberation, April 1945, was made literally into a dumping ground for 1000s of prisoners who were being evacuated, or many of them evacuated from other parts of the Nazi camp complex. Sorry, I thought it was too close to 4000 pounds became the place where prisoners who were being evacuated from Auschwitz and from other camps that were being disbanded. During in the face of the Russian advanced where these people were, were brought as prisoners. And absolutely no effort was made. No provision was made by the administration to make any sort of facilities available. There was no food, there was no sanitation. There was no medication was simply an area increasingly filled with bodies of excrement in which 1000s of people lived for six months or more of their lives. I tried to take out of her diary, some sort of representative comments on this book. I think this one perhaps brings it out first and January 1945. Lady has talks to some of the women who have arrived and Belsen from Auschwitz. Unknown Speaker 1:07:54 Quote, they tell us of the mass murders of the 99% who have been massacred in the gas chambers of the senators to which they were subjected. They feel nobody will believe them. And we'll put their stories down as tales of lunatics. And you have to imagine the sphere being expressed in the context of already such unbelievable bestiality. Anyway, it is strange to compare their physical condition with ours, but they told us doesn't Auschwitz the prisoners had had sufficient to eat and that by helping each other they had managed to get all they needed. In general, they said they had not gone hungry, but the fear of death hung over all of them. The death factory the woman told us worked at full stretch every day. But in their camp, no one went hungry. The end is the same only the means are different than ashram to just a quick ruthless procedure, mass murder in the gas chambers. In Belson. It is a sadistic, long, drawn out process of starvation, of balance of terror of the deliberate spreading of infection and disease. And that sense starships is in some respects superior to belts and it's one that evidently, it's not confined to too late in houses perception at the time there are other reminiscences of contracts which are quite a striking sign. However, I want to pick up two points from this common beat this quotation, the fact that death and Belsen was by comparison of that suddenly realized threatened Auschwitz that death and Belson will slow into distance. And the fact that nobody has rights in Auschwitz, the prisoners have managed to keep alive by cooperation. Although many other accounts are slightly different. Make sure there's nothing the theologian Richard Rubinstein has deplored the fact that as he says, quote, regrettably, few of his colleagues have paid attention to the highly significant political fact that the camps were in reality a new form of society, a society of total domination. In simpler or more universal terms, it does seem true I think, that we can never think of the concept of human group without simultaneously Thinking social relations started. Even in the concentration camps even in the death camps, or the concentration camps, the scientists were perverse. One of the particular perversities of Belson was that it was a camp in which many inmates lived as families, of men and women and children. They were not sex segregated, and that was relatively unusual. Virtually all the camps that were not the ghettos, and Poland was sex segregated, and one of the few ones that went on there, because the gypsy camp in Auschwitz. And I think it's part of the scandal of the way that different experiences have been unequally treated in the post war literature. But so little is known about the experience of Egyptians and those who are numerically the Peter as much as the Jews when Applied Maths and other. So families, the family, the so called building block of our civilization, so it was somehow existed in Belsen. But they lived as men, women and children in situations such extreme such grotesque scarcity that all social solidarities have broken down and were shattered by the last few months of the company. That's the contrast with our shirts that lady has wants to bring up. In the face of, of shares that were not only inadequate, but virtually not even present. People literally fought for more than their share. Some were systematically successful in the sense that they were members of a regime of corruption and inequality in the camp. Quote, It is now no longer system. It is now no longer a secret that large quantities of food intended for our hut regularly and mysteriously disappeared, and undisguised and flourishing trade goes on. Those who carry on this trade deal in goods that for us belong to the world of make believe things like stopping drinks, children star coats. This is in the early part of August before food distribution in Britain. This figures with a constant I've read other experiences and concentration camps, the authentic point is that the CANS did not in fact reduce all to the same level of powerlessness. Differences of power continue to exist, they were declared and whatever the possible quantities were food and privileges in labor, in cigarettes, incense. And his short stories about Auschwitz, the Polish writer Tagish Barofsky faced the spat to power and survival, his power and survival Finally, he paid for it by taking his own life off the hill. In Belsen lady has lived it as among the very worst at the degradations that she experienced. Unknown Speaker 1:12:51 Her disgust her humiliation of what human beings will do for themselves and do to each other is conveyed in words which are as strong as those that she used against her capitals. She experiences shame in a degree, which is as great as the hatred that she felt for those who have put them in the situation. In this group testing narrow life, differences of gender do seem to emerge as differences of social power, but they're not easily depicted or understood. I find that I'm trying to, to grapple with this lady has worked with the children to come in and improvise school. And somehow I'm getting the impression that that was what women do, but it was women's wear on boxer. In October 1944, some months after her arrival, she helped to organize a collective protest by women against that corrupt regime of food distribution in her heart. They insisted that the food be distributed according to me. I'm not according to the arbitrary hierarchy set up by status and competition. It took something like a revolt, but it did work. But before we hasten to label this as an act of women's solidarity, I think we have to be honest with her text, and deal with the depictions that she presents at different times in her life. The results immediate target was in fact the woman in charge of distribution, not the Man. Woman in charge of the distribution of women's heart although elsewhere in her tax lady House does portray the man was being collectively weaker and more open to corruption from the women. In general, though, she seems particularly after the event very reluctant to make simple ASIC notions of morality to gender. When, in the draft of my introduction, I emphasize one point where she did well she did say that the men were are weaker and more open to corruption. She insisted on moderating that passage in 1980 Just as she was also insisting to another place, and retaining the full ambiguity of her sense of itself is what it meant to her to be a Jew. She was very evidently very uneasy in these categorizations of human experience. In the interview section of the book, she can be seen repudiating those passages where we might want to seize only what she's written about is evidence of morally different behaviors by men and women. For example, she says, when her attention is drawn to one of these passages from her interviewing from her diary, sorry, where she's deploring the behavior of the men she says later in the interview, a man's body reacts differently to cold and hungry girl than a woman's there was no question of customer blaming. Women and men behave differently. In other words for ascertainable physical reasons, there's no higher morality. Being a woman, at the most one might accept perhaps that women's investment in their children promoted more willingness to self sacrifice. I find it as I reread it a dense and difficult text, the both the diary and interviewing the cleanse from its readers and attention, which I personally find very hard to sustain in the face of the unapproachable experience numbers that are conveyed. When I first read the whole thing, I felt that this lady has shifted and later in life to much less rigorous view of the world. But her views on feminism and on the problems of Israel in the 1970s were more naive and trite by contrast with the fierceness of politics and philosophy and Belsen, but rereading it and reflecting for these comments, I'm not so sure about this. When she's asked to describe the nature of her tuition is in the interview, she rejects that well known phrase by Isaac Deutsche, the non Jewish Jew, I would rather she says I'd rather call myself a universal Jew, that doesn't sound so bombastic. I think that she's also a universal feminist strike woman in a similar sense. I think in that sense, she has a voice from a European cultural diversity and openness, in which and this is rather a long shot, really, that, that Marx's materialism which is ultimately the bedrock of her on politics, was not reductionist is not a narrowing of the understanding of human experience, but a very broad and grand invitation to a materialist and humanist politics. The Simplicity's of that universalism are, one can leave it one can, can fail to encounter the fact that, that Unknown Speaker 1:17:47 that universalism looks so simple, but in practice, of course, it produces, I think that extraordinarily difficult challenges and difficult sorts of experiences that kind of lady has went through refusing to see herself simply as a Jew, as a woman, as does not have the honor but trying to to face and transcend these categories in a long and extraordinarily demanding life. Unknown Speaker 1:18:37 You Hello, my name is Sandra wanton. And I will be talking about the American concentration camp. And and listening to the other speakers are realized that the American concentration camp is quite different from the three camps we've heard. Part of it has to do with the fact that it was in America, and America has been known for its freedom and democracy, and therefore the camp cannot, could not be as repressive as these other camps that we're studying. But similar to the other camps. The American concentration camp is based upon institutional racism. And what I'd like to do is I'd like to give you a little historical background of American history to place the camp within this framework. First of all, there was no evidence whatsoever that any Japanese person was ever guilty of treason espionage against the American government. But despite this fact, 110,000 Japanese Americans are the Pacific coast the entire population. Well was incarcerated for the duration of the war, and two thirds of these Japanese were citizens. Another difference between the camp experience, it seems that for the Japanese, it was just during the war duration, so it was three years and not a longer span of time. Another thing too, is this camp was a culmination of 90 years of anti Asian sentiment on the Pacific coast, starting in 1850, with the first immigration of the Chinese, and it represented, in some ways, the combination of economic restrictions, political restrictions and social restrictions experienced by all Asian Americans. And the third thing the camp represent is in some ways, the organized organized interest groups that benefited directly from the camps and these I'm thinking primarily of large farming interest. For instance, Bank of America, owned in 1930 50% of the farmlands in California, and the Southern California growers associate Association played a large role in agitating hysteria against the Japanese. And the fourth important factor is the role of the military, military falsified documents and falsified reports, which created a sense of well, which use the Japanese as a scapegoat for the military losses, both in Pearl Harbor and in the South Pacific up till June 1942. It's not an accident that the Japanese were singled out because the Italian and German aliens and citizens were arrested by the FBI on individual charges. And the Japanese were the only ones that were singled out as group. Okay, let me mention just a few of the government policies which led to the incarceration process on December 7 1941. As soon as Pearl Harbor was attacked by Japanese forces, the FBI went around to the Italian, German and Japanese communities rounding up all people that they had suspected of compliance with these foreign powers. And by February of 1942, approximately 5000 Japanese community leaders and heads of families were arrested. At the same time, the Treasury Department rose all aliens assets, which included property and bank accounts. The military also issued increasing restrictions against aliens right after Pearl Harbor, but only the Japanese were singled out in terms of the citizens. They also had to comply with a military restriction. So by February of 1942, the Japanese citizens also had to abide by the military restrictions that were initially imposed upon the aliens. Unknown Speaker 1:23:39 As a result of all this, there was a tremendous amount of panic within the Japanese community and within the Japanese families. And the economic base of the community, which was an ethnic economy based upon agriculture and small businesses, was seriously threatened by the Treasury Department's actions as well as by the increasing military restrictions. And in March of 1942, the announcement was made for the mass incarceration of the entire Japanese population. And so what resulted was a tremendous economic losses, which some conservative figures estimate to be about $400 million, as well as the severe psychic losses, and in some ways, a loss of faith in the American government. Because these were basically immigrants who emigrated to America with the idea that life would be better here with the idea that there is a political freedom and economic freedom and this was threatened by this incarceration. There were 10 campsites selected by the government for the wartime detention, to warn California to warn the deserts of Arizona to warn the swamp infested our Consider, one was in Idaho, one was in Utah, one was out in Wyoming and Colorado. Now what all these camps shared was the isolation from the normal society and desolation. And also severe climatic conditions. And the winters ranged from, you know, temperatures below zero, and in the summers in the deserts of Arizona went up to 110 and 120 degrees. And so for the elderly, the sick, and the very young, many of them suffered. And in one year in 1944, almost 2000 people died in the camps. Now, what I'd like to emphasize is the racism that pervades the entire camp experience. And in the camps, a state patriarchy was created, which I call paternalism. Now, the camps basically had an anti Family Policy, which led to the destabilization of the Japanese American family. And it's really important to understand the role of the Japanese American family in America because it was one of the major sources of resistance to racism up to this time. And, but in the camps, a social welfare state was created, which created the dependency on the families upon the American government. And then camps, the authorities that control the Japanese was called The War Relocation Authority, or W Ra. Now what they did is they provided shelter, they provided food, they provided medical care and dental care, and education, in exchange for Japanese, working in the camps of very meager wages very similar to a prison like situation. And also for the agreement of the Japanese to abide by the rules and regulation of the camps. And artificial life is created for the Japanese in the camps, where they were reduced to a childlike dependency upon the WR for their day to day survival. The housing was barracks construction, families did live live together. But the housing policy stated that you needed five to seven people in each Varrick room. So if you didn't have that many people in your family, you were forced to share housing with other people, without without any choice. So you also had that situation, but you also had extended families, which created a lot of tension within families. Because in America, the Japanese American families did not live in an extended family unit. So this was a totally new situation. And so you, Adams, this housing policy, you had a lot of fights and tensions within within the family situation. You also had mess hall meals, Unknown Speaker 1:28:09 where there was no family privacy, and you ate whatever was served, and they didn't starve you. But as a result of the campus conditions, there are many people who did get food poisoning and did you know get diarrhea and were sick a lot. And you had public the trains and public showers. And so what you have is, you had a situation, which forced family members to live in the camps as individuals rather than as a family group. Now, the work structure of Camp also reinforce this dependency relationship, because it w ra controlled the work on they, they determined who could work the conditions of labor, and the Hours and Wages. Now the Japanese were paid, okay, but their pay was called a wage allowance. And this there were three amounts, the $12 for apprenticeship wave of workers $16 For the average worker and $19 for those who are professionals, and in managerial positions. There were also given a separate clothing allowance, which was issued in the form of scripts and could only be used in the community store. So in some sense, it created a plantation like relationship between the W RA and the Japanese. As a result, the Japanese family was undermined and weakened and was forced to depend upon the government. And they found themselves in a reactive position to the government policy. So whenever the government policy change, the families reacted. Now, out of this camp experience and out of the family disk destabilization policy emerges a story that I call the feminization of Japanese American women. Because of the institutional life, women's work responsibilities was tremendously reduced. In the pre war period. The Japanese women work anywhere from about 12 to 18 hours a day. And they did housework they did childcare, as well as working in the family business, within the camps, because of the mess hall meals. And because of the one room barracks, women's work was tremendously reduced. And instead, what you had is a tremendous about amount of leisure time. Now, I was concerned about how women utilize this leisure time. And one of the things that I saw occurring was that women started spending more time with each other with other women. And what I see emerging is a strong female culture within the camps, which may seem like a contradiction, but because the structure of the cancer was much more individualistic, it seemed natural that our female culture would develop. And one of the things that people commented about all the time, both men and women, about the Issei women that the first generation women, was that they spent a lot of time gossiping. And initially, I saw this as very negative. But then I realized what was happening. Let me backtrack, I read a Paul Marshalls book on Greenup, where she talks about her mother, as a domestic worker coming back every afternoon with her friends and discussing their lives in the kitchen and talking about their experiences. And so one of the things I did is I reinterpreted the whole notion of gossiping. And I realized that what the women were doing was that they were talking about their life experiences, exchanging strategies, but also talking about how to react to the camp conditions. And they also found support from each other in, in what people call gossiping. As a result of this, you could see the influence of the women's culture because what the women did is they tried to control behavior that they felt contradicted their values. And so they spent a lot of time talking about other people and controlling other people's behavior. And another thing that happened in camps was that there were more women in paid positions. Unlike the pre war period, where women worked in the family economy, in the camps, women could find paid work, although it was at a at a very small salary. Unknown Speaker 1:33:03 A third thing that occurred in camp was that increasingly, women took English classes. Now, for an immigrant woman learning to speak, read and write English was a step in their empowerment, and an act of assertion of their desire to move away from a dependent relationship. Because many of these women came to America as brides and so did not have access to the American culture in any way. And so although they had been living here for three decades, many of them could speak very little English at all. And now these women took English classes and continue to take these classes in spite of opposition from their, from their husbands. Now, one of the things that occurred in camp is as women actively asserted themselves, there was opposition primarily from their husbands. And one of the things men came to this country, oh, anywhere between 10 to 20 years before their wives and so most of them have some facility in the English language. And what that gave them was, in some ways, control over their wives behaviors, because it was through their husbands or through their children, that women had access to the American culture. And another reason men objected to their wives taking English language classes. Many of the men were not very fluent in English, and they were afraid that their position as head of the household would be threatened if their wives can speak English and they couldn't. What really pushed it seems these Issei willing to take English language classes was in was after April 1943, when their sons were drafted from the camps into the military. On In these women wanted to continue to have a relationship with their sons and their sons could not read or write Japanese. And so the women felt that it was necessary for them to learn English so that they can continue to communicate with their sons who are fighting in the war. Now, the last thing I'd like to talk about is that Issei women in the camps demand changes in their marriage or relationships. Now, there were a lot of pre war conditions. That created unhappy marriages, many of these women came over as picture brides. And they had been deceived by their husbands. Many of the husbands had told them that there were successful businessmen are lawyers or doctors. And they promised these women in Japan lives and you know, richness and leisure and pleasure. And then when these women emigrated, they found out that these, their husbands were not successful, professional men, but were farmers or owners of small shops, and that, that they had to work that the men who brought them over as workers and not as you know, leisure lives, another deception that occurred was many, many of the men were middle aged. And they would send pictures of younger men to these women, or they would hire intellectual Issei men to write love letters, you know, to seduce their wives. And so there was just a lot of deception that occurred. But these women, once they got here, because they were isolated from their families could not return. And so they made the best of it, and stayed in these marriages. And so a number of these women in the camps, asked for separation from their husbands. Another group of women that asked for separations were those who found themselves widows in America, with young children to support and many of these women could not survive, earning a living by themselves. And so married these old bachelor men. One extreme case that I found was a young woman who was 33. And she had been widowed twice in America. And when her second husband died, she had three young children under the age of seven. And Unknown Speaker 1:37:28 during the funeral, an older man who was about 60, came over to her and said, Do you have any place to stay? And she said, No. So he says, Well, why don't you come and live with me temporarily, because I am the first cousin of your husband. And I will, you know, take care of you until you get back on your feet. Well, after she had lived with him for a couple of months, the community the Japanese American community put a lot of pressure upon her to become their his common law wife. Since she had no other option, she agreed, and she lived with this man for about seven years and had two children by him. Now, as soon as she got to camp, she went to the camp authorities, the welfare department and said, I don't want to live with this man anymore. I want to be separated from him, but I only chose to live with him because of economic necessity. Now, there were a number of these women, there were also women who had put up with, with husband to have had mistresses, or who spent money gambling, and they in the camps decided that they no longer needed to put up with this kind of behavior. And it seems one of the things that occurred was that because of camps provided an economic security, women could make choices about how they wanted to structure their lives. Another thing is they did have the support of other females there to help them make these decisions and make these transitions. Unknown Speaker 1:39:03 Now I'd like to turn turn, briefly to the second generation of women to the nice eight women who were also who also challenge patriarchy, but they challenged patriarchy in different ways in their mothers. Like their mothers, they also created a separate female culture based upon their shared experiences and their shared values and their American experience. What now the important thing of the second generation, the Nisei support group is the fit their support group helped these young women challenge families control and the patriarchal ideology, which said that women should be subordinate and women should be submissive to the needs of the family. And so some of the things that the new say women did in camp was that Add, after 19 after March of 1943, the W ra changed this policy from one of Camp detention to one of forced relocation. Now, on the surface, it seems like a really good idea. But if you look at it in terms of its racial component, you realize that what they were doing was that they were dispersing the Japanese American community, they were trying to disperse the Japanese American community throughout the Midwest and throughout the East, and to break down the family and ethnic solidarity that had been a source of support for the Japanese American families and community. Now, the younger generation responded more actively to the WR, forced relocation policy. And women did leave the camps, to attend school or to work and a number of them left the camps to marry. Up till this time, parents had had a strong control over women's choices marriage, and what women did, if the parents objected to the person they wanted to marry, they left the camps and they married outside the camps so that the families had no control over their behavior. So there was just a lot of family conflict. And what you see going on is the undermining of this strong family in the pre war period. The third area where women challenged the Japanese patriarchy and camp was in relationship to work in camp women held non traditional positions of authority over men. Now, again, this is a double blind, because you may say, this is wonderful. And as a feminist, I think it's wonderful that if you look at the racial implications of this, there, this was not parallel in the larger society. In the larger society, even during World War Two women traditionally didn't have full positions of power over men. So one of the implications of this policy was that because the Japanese were a separate racial group, it was okay to have women in positions of power. So it's really a double bind in terms of interpreting these policies. Now, some of the non traditional jobs that women had in camp, were, whereas block leaders or assistant block leaders, or as police persons, or as supervisors, over men. Now there, there was some gender conflicts in camp. And some of the manifestations of this was that the older men Issei, men would get very upset by having what they called uppity women in the camps who did not respect them as men. And so what you see is, you see some times when when the women would talk back to the men, they would get slapped, you'd see the reverse of that occurring to where you would have men trying to control women's behavior and women revolting to that. And there were several instances where women worked as waitresses and men would, you know, order them around, and what they did was picked up the food and just threw it in the men's face. And do you know, so there was just a lot of conflict going on? What was very difficult for the Issei men is if they had a woman boss, who they had to take orders from and who earned a higher wage than they did not as higher wages $19 as opposed to $16, you know, so the difference is very slight, but it was just the whole notion of men being subordinated to women. Unknown Speaker 1:43:58 Again, the issue of racism is very strong in camp experience. And one of the things that runs through it is although you had women in positions of power, when you look at the wage structure of the camps, and you compare the white wages to the Japanese wages should see the racism more directly. White workers in camps, unlike the Greek experience, in all positions of work in camps, you had white supervisors over the Japanese. And what this meant is that you had racism in terms of authority as well as racism in terms of wages on a daily basis. So while a Japanese dietitian, for instance, are $19 a month for for labor, or $228 a year her white counterpart earned $2,600 for the same work, okay, and while a Japanese clerk typist earn $16 per month or one $192 a year, her white counterpart earn $1,620 per year. So there was a large gap between the wages of the white women workers and the Japanese women workers. And this is also parallel in relationship to men. Unknown Speaker 1:45:23 And when you see what happened in the post war economy, the white workers were, were able to leave the camp with us with a savings as well as work experiences that could be transferred. But for the, for the Japanese women, their camp experiences, in some ways, their assertion of authority was temporary, in some ways, it reflected the artificial pneus of the camps, because the kinds of jobs that the women found in the post war economy did not reflect their camp experience. But they went back to being maids and went back to being domestic workers. And they went back to being factory workers. So what I'm saying is, these changes did occur, but they were very temporary. They were just for three years. But what I, in summary, what I'd like to say is that I think this was the camp experience or the brief in years, you can see women actively asserting their individual desires. And it was the first time for both mothers and daughters that they could do this in their experience in America. And part of this was because the patriarchy that had that had kept women subordinated was threatened by the white patriarchy of the camp experience. And so the pit, the patriarchy was weakened, and so women could actively take a stand for themselves. But you also see this occurring within this destabilization policy of the W era. But one of the positive things I see in this whole experience for women is that although in the camps between 1942 or 1945, you see Japanese women challenging Japanese patriarchy. Between 1969 and the 1970s, what you see is a third generation of Japanese American women not only challenging Japanese patriarchy, but challenging institutional racism, challenging white patriarchy in terms of their resistance to Americans participation in the Vietnam War to imperialism and capitalism. So what I see is a cyclical change. And I see that as Japanese women participate more directly in all areas of life in terms of their protests, you know, they're able to resist and protest different facets of their oppression. Okay, at this time, we would like to open the panel to discussion and questions