Unknown Speaker 00:01 If you would just line up at those microphones, I'll recognize you as best I can and direct your questions to one or all of the panelists. See if these are on they are here I am again. Yes, please. Unknown Speaker 00:22 I'm Phyllis Kriegel. And I'm the editor in chief of new directions for women. And I'm addressing this to anybody on the panel who would like to respond. And it's a question that goes this way. Why if we have an entrenched system that's bad for women? And why if feminism is so popular? And why if we have an information society, where women need access and power, why is it so difficult to find support for women owned women controlled media that put women at the center? Why is New Directions For women, the getting it Gazette, and all the other small institutions having such a struggle? Thank you. Wow. She wanted to talk about Unknown Speaker 01:25 you've struck fear into the panelists. Unknown Speaker 01:30 Phyllis, I have as a admirer and supporter of new directions for women, I would first want to pray to you and all that you have done. And I would wonder praise all the alternative media, we would have to ask another question as well. Which is it? Is it only the alternative women's press that is having a hard financial time? Or are the difficulties gender marked? Or are the difficulties of the alternative? Small women's press and women's media? Are those the difficulty of any small media at a time when there is an increasing integration increasing con glamorization of the medium of the media? So I would, when I was talking, as we talk together on this issue, I would say are you having troubles because you're women? Or are you having troubles because you're small? Or is it a nasty, nasty combination? The next thing I would say is an answer goes back to what Faye was saying, and what Marie was saying, and what all of us were implying, which is an even greater sense of responsibility for women's institutions, not out of a kind of theoretical dedication to separatism. But out of a pragmatic dedication to the notion of women's spaces within the larger culture, women's spaces where energies can be concentrated, where ideas can be formulated, and that can serve as as the Citadel from which the battle is waged. But that I think, is one of the most pressing tasks in the 1990s, which is even greater dedication, financially, morally, and in terms of energy, to women's institutions. And here, I think we have to praise presidents like Mary maples, Dunham Smith and Ellen footer of Barnard, who have worked so hard to keep women's colleges going. Unknown Speaker 03:48 I like to say something about both funding and media. I know Phil, as well. And she does, she and many others have struggled. I think it's fair to remember that only 5% of all philanthropic giving in this country goes to women are less than 5%. That is an absolute outrage. The fact that the MS foundation is the largest fund in the country, and we're able to give away $2 million that in a year. That's a great amount in the world of women that is a small grant from a large Foundation. And so what I would say is we have to figure out a way to fund our revolution that we've been talking about and that's about women giving it started last year when we started giving to political candidates, but women do have to give their money on behalf of women and I think the colleges Yeah, stop your if you're, if your daughter is watching, show her where you put your money and give it to women. So that's the first thing. Now the second thing is about media. We have been very leery of media in this country. That's the other part. Part of it doesn't do anything, whether it's small press or large press, you know, if we just it's like, say sad about the adolescent research, if we're just good girls and do good people will notice. It'll be fine. Forget it. I had a man from CBS sitting in my couch the other day, who has never talked to me. And he came to talk about, you know, taking nine to 15 year old girls to work. And he looked at me and he said, Isn't this just a media gimmick? Isn't this just a public education gimmick? Isn't this a way? He said, How is this going to solve the fact that you're concerned about about how many girls are victims of violence and sexual abuse, and I said, I've been telling you for 20 years about this thing, and for the first time, you're sitting on my couch, and it drives me crazy. And it won't be on television, it's gonna be on television all week, you won't see that on television. But I think the other piece that I think a lot of people signed up for it, women have got to take control of media in this country, we have to own our own media. And that includes new direction. And we have to figure out how to get control of the media that again, the girls are watching and learning about what it means to be a woman. Unknown Speaker 06:18 We'll take the next question from right over here. Unknown Speaker 06:21 Traditionally, the military and playing sports have been routes for men to get into political power, I think of Jack Kemp and Bill Bradley as professional athletes. And I think that I think President Clinton is the first president not to have actually had a military career. Given this, I was troubled that none of you all mentioned women in the military. And at best, you've lost over the role of women in sports. These are clear places where people can build, learn leadership roles, and also the military is going through a great deal of changes for women right now. I was wondering if you might be able to talk a little bit about this, and what it means to what gaining more power in these areas means for younger women. Unknown Speaker 07:11 I think the feminist movement has long focused on integrating sports and the military and have been forefront issues. And I think it really opened up doors of opportunity, although clearly, they are used by the male establishment, the male dominated establishment to keep power and to keep us out of power. There's no question about that. And we should be right now with tail hook is a is a prime opportunity, I think to raise a lot of the issues about how violence and sexual harassment and rape have been used within military and within the sports arenas to keep women in their place. I think it's very important that we push for integration in those two areas, but that we also open up other avenues of gaining power. And I think expose some of the expose sports and expose the military as having been roads exclusively for men into power. And encourage, obviously, any activists in those areas and I mentioned sports, but clearly there's a very strong feminist movement, even within the military. And I think we're seeing some real breakthroughs. And I hope, particularly that the gays in the military issue, I think, actually stands to help women more, because it has been lesbian baiting that has been used far more often to kick women out of the military whenever they were approaching any kind of status at all in rank that has been used against men. And I hope that this becomes a watershed period for this. And that is people are as appalled at the idea of keeping gays out of different areas in the military and combat that they will not forget the women. Unknown Speaker 09:00 Just I am very glad you mentioned the question of sports because when I sat down, feeling Lesley Coleman's eyes burning in my back saying you've already done more than nine minutes, I realized that I had not mentioned sports and the importance of enforcing Title Nine and the importance of sports not only to as an arena of bringing in legal equity, but the importance of sports as forgive an old fashioned phrase in which I believe breeding character. I think the issue of the military is more complicated. And I think women and men are are torn and it can be a creative tension. But the tension is there between asking for equity within all social institutions, including the military, or working in non violent movements. And people are going to make different choices on this. And one thing I liked so much about your speech, Tanya was the way in which you talk After about a democracy, being the question of balancing tensions, and I think on this issue with the military, it is simply a tension that we will balance among us, between those of us who want equity and all our institutions, including the military, and those of us who seek to work for non violence. And it's there, and there's no way out of it. And let's learn how to talk about our tensions, and live with them politically, in a creative fashion. Unknown Speaker 10:36 I'm gonna preach girls this morning, obviously. But I think it's important in terms of your question that nothing. What we know is that sports are really correlated with excelling in math and science, that sports are really correlated for girls with their ability not to rely on how they look. And if you went to the park, right, this minute, you would see a cadre of men coming over the hill, to teach their sons intensely, how to have a competence. And I really do think that's a major thing we have to focus on is how we get women and men involved with girls around that competence, because it is the place they can do something. So I think that's great. I would also like to tell you to our great shock, that it is the Colorado Air Force Academy, and the army of Virginia and these places who are taking their daughters to work in massive. And so what I am hoping is that the girls will show up at these places and say, I mean that they will have some comments about the military and kind of raise some awarenesses. But it's a tough issue. But we really do have to focus on the sports. It's too hot. I mean, it's too important. Unknown Speaker 11:48 I feel it's incumbent upon myself and maybe the only one who knows this to announce that Kate Stimson played basketball for Bryn Mawr. And still she found out. Yes. Unknown Speaker 12:04 Hello, my name is Lisa Hart, I need you to speak. My name is Lisa Harvin better, and I'm an attorney. For the City of New York, I work with Child and Family Services. My My concern is is what the feminist agenda really is. I personally believe that all people are created equal and should have a fair chance at success and access to things that life has to offer. But I I have a concern about women who may not believe that. And that has been part of the reason why I haven't joined in fully in the feminist movement. I worked on the Hill Capitol Hill for at various times in my life. And I remember hearing the opinion of Webster being read by the justices. And the there were women who were on the Hill who got together after the reading of that opinion, to strategize to write a statute that would sort of guarantee a woman's right to choose. I remember feeling very left out, I remember being looked over, not really being part of the discussion, primarily either because I was very young at the time, or maybe I didn't look like the other women who were there. Or I just didn't embrace the same sort of cultural identity that they had. And I feel like I'm part of the newer wave of feminists, I'm a feminist but I still enjoy being a woman. I'm an attorney, I enjoy using my brain. But at the same time, I feel a concern that they're not that the Old Guard, the old girl network is sort of blocking maybe some of the new wave that might want to come in and I really enjoyed hearing Tanya and Faye addressing those issues of having different ideas and opinions, but being part of the family. I'm wondering how if that issue has ever been in concern for anyone on the panel and how you'd address that Unknown Speaker 14:21 well we have all day to talk about this. You raise I think some some really excellent issues and considering myself a part of the old girl network because I am an old girl Girl given the fact that this is my 50th year in 1993. I do feel some some of the Unknown Speaker 14:52 and when I when I hear the notion that somehow I'm a feminist, but I do enjoy A men and I do enjoy looking good. I wonder if we haven't somehow miscommunicated in our ideology, the breadth of the dimension of women, and that we have sometimes fallen into the trap of being perceived as having only one dimension to our personalities and to, to who we are, as opposed to the fact that none of us are single dimensional, are not even those of us who think about sex and reproduction 24 hours a day, but that there are dimensions, dimensions to us, that are a part of our unique quality that is our gender. And I think that is what we heard from several of the panelists here that suggest that we really have to. And I think that by implication, I think in your question, we really have to exploit all of those qualities and not just some of those qualities. And that the society is better served when we recognize all of the unique qualities of being a woman, and not to shy from them even looking good is a is a great asset in this country. And I don't mean that in the feminist sense. I mean, that we there's there is a lot to be said about how we look in terms of what we convey about self esteem to our children, and how we value ourselves, and what we consider to be important about ourselves. And we must first consider ourselves important before we can expect other people to consider us important and valuable. But finally like to say that I never came to this movement of believing in, in fighting in the, in the belief of fighting for the rights of women, because I waited for somebody else to ask me to participate. I found that there was enormous self interest in my commitment and my involvement in this, perhaps that came from my personal and professional background as a nurse. And I saw who the women were who suffered the most, and they were not white, a fluent women, they were poor, black women. And so I feel that, that that power package resides within the hearts of each of us and, and if we don't have to wait for other people to get aside for what we have to do for ourselves. But it really is a matter of pragmatic self interest, that we engage this movement in whatever way that isn't to say that all women believe in what I've spoken about this morning, what all of us have spoken about. But that is to say that if we those of us who do believe don't make this battle and don't make this fight, there won't be much left for any of us to believe, because we will be so so completely subjugated to the power structure even more than we have in the past. Unknown Speaker 18:07 I agree completely with what FaZe said and I just like to add the point about being an outsider. When you are in a fight of the sort that feminists are in trying to change something that is of such major proportion, and the stakes are so high. The people who are in leadership positions are like the generals in a foxhole. And after a while, even though the feminist movement tries very hard to take care of the privates in the corporal's and maybe someone who just showed up who isn't even a private yet, it's very, very difficult. And for those of you who are now the young ones that are coming on, who are going to we all hope up here, take on this leadership and move it into the next phase. You've got to be I think, a little pushy, and a little helpful, and a little understanding of those of us who have been doing this for 30 years and Marie's foundation with the take the daughters to, to lunch, or excuse me to work. For those for those daughters who don't have jobs, taking them to lunch is probably very important also. But you have as you will always have the generational connection, you will have to deal with that problem. Older people, men or women don't like to give up power, but we will die out and it will be your turn. I'm being very pragmatic about it. Secondly, because I repeat myself beat pushy. It's the young women who come in To the organizations that I work with, say, Hey, I'd be glad to hang around another extra two hours. We're always looking for young women to help out and we try to mentor them and move them along. So if you felt out of place in the context that you described the day of the Webster decision, it was the day down there. And I think that we all try the old girls to bring you in. And when we don't do it, then in your most appropriate way you come in and tell us and offer. And I think we all want you want you there very much. So Unknown Speaker 20:39 we're exhausted. I mean, that's the other thing. I want to add one thing because I, one thing I've learned, again to this project, is that the minute you say something about girls, people say you don't like boys. And as a feminist, what I'm really tired of is having it assume that because I care about women, I don't care about man, that feels like a big thing that holds women out. And I think we have to contradict that and keep reminding people, nobody has to buy into that silly thing that if you want. I mean, I have boys and I have girls, I have five children, I have three boys and two girls, I care about them. And I think we have to get out of that. And if we want to change what it means for girls to be girls, we have to change this crap about what it means for boys to be boys. Boys don't want I'm upset. It's disrespectful to men. Unknown Speaker 21:34 Let's go over here. Unknown Speaker 21:35 Okay. My name is Anne Shapiro. I am a professor, and I am inspired this morning by all of you. But I am also worried. So I want to tell you what I'm worried about. The best selling woman's book this year was not Carol Gilligan's latest book. But Susan Faludi is backlash, I guess it was actually last year. And what I worry about is something I'm seeing here. That is, are we preaching to the converted, there are almost no man in the audience, I'm happy to see a few of them. But I'm seeing here what I see in my own women's studies, classes, women, and that's wonderful. But I think if we are going to win this revolution, we will have to speak to men. So I would be curious to know what strategies all of you have for getting our message out to the man who may be only 49%. But there are a powerful 49% Unknown Speaker 22:45 fee is hungry to answer. Unknown Speaker 22:51 I have been asked that question many times. And what I find is that the feminist men are very supportive. They give us their money. They sit in the meetings, they put us on the panels. But there are very few of those feminist men who will do the kinds of things that all of us on this panel have done and many of you in this room have done. I am one who when we had the discussion many years at the Manhattan Women's Political Caucus organizing meeting in wanted the men in and for those of you who remember, we fought that for a couple years, when we formed the pro choice Republican movement, we insisted that there be men on our board. However, there were more women than there were men. The fact of the matter is, except for those men that I mentioned, this is a women driven leadership movement. And as many times as we try to bring the men in, they're not really interested. And certainly in the group that I deal with, which is the the centrist mainstream part of our of the dialogue. And certainly in the last couple years, they only became interested when our women's political movement got big enough that we began to take a little bit of the power away from them. And while I am the wife of someone for the same man for 30 years, and I have good relationships with the men in my life and the feminist men on our committees, this is our movement. And I'm sorry, they're not here but I'm really more glad that all of you women are here, because it is an act. It is an adversarial fight. It is a revolution. And maybe 20 years ago, I thought Oh wouldn't it be wonderful to have the men involved and I still want them as our allies but it is ours to win and it is ours to lose. And don't ever forget that. We are talking about taking power. We are not going to get it they're not going to give it to us and even those wonderful feminist men are not going to give it to us. This is major, major things. Unknown Speaker 25:15 Tanya, you said what I think I was probably too timid to say. Unknown Speaker 25:23 But, Catherine, you are not timid. Unknown Speaker 25:27 But let me just build on what you said. And let me speak to my fellow professor of the education of men. In the women's movement has always gone along on two levels. One has been the private level and one has been the public level. And it is extraordinary in that way. And I think that we have to always remember and always honor millions and millions of women, who without any recognition, and often is some physical risk to themselves, educate the men in their lives, educate their fathers, educate their fathers in law, educate their uncle's educate their sons. And I very much agree with Maria about the necessity of educating sons as well as daughters. On a private level, on a public level, I think feminism has worked very, very hard to establish many different voices. And I think it is a tribute to feminist writers such as Lady Poe, bourbon, Alice Walker, Elizabeth Janeway, Susan Faludi, Jane O'Reilly, Barbara Ehrenreich, that they have made a very real and conscious and deliberate effort to reach a mainstream audience. And one thing too, that I think I feel an enormous personal debt to say and to Gloria Steinem is the brilliant, brilliant appearance in television. In fact, I think if there is a way in which our educational efforts have not been as successful as they might have been, it's that we have been stronger in print than we have been on TV and FE, you are unique. And Gloria is unique. I wish there were more of you at the same time. But I think we have tried that. The question in here I believe on Tanya is the question is, how do you speak to the deliberately deaf? Unknown Speaker 27:36 If the fathers are deaf speak to the sons and I do the see the sons listening on college campuses. Unknown Speaker 27:45 By remarkable fortuitous coincidence, sir. Unknown Speaker 27:51 Yes, so potenial millage? What direction do you see the Republican Party taking? Do you slit? Do you think we'll see a repetition in 96 of the kind of right wing takeover we saw at the convention this year? And if if it does happen, if the right wing seems to be permanently ensconced in charge the Republican Party, how can you continue being Republican? Unknown Speaker 28:21 You didn't hear my speech? Unknown Speaker 28:22 I did. I did. Unknown Speaker 28:24 I'm sorry, I didn't make it clear. To the first part of your question. The Republican Party's base at the moment is in the southern states. And some of the smaller Rocky Mountain states. The question of what happens in places like California, which has a Republican governor right now and will probably be challenged Governor Wilson be challenged by Kathleen brown? You know, in Texas, it's Governor Richards in Massachusetts governor weld in Illinois, Governor angler, how could I forget but what I'm saying is that that the Republican Party much more than the Democratic Party works, their nominating processes with usually the power bases of several governors there is generally not very much grassroots organizing. Now, the party's grassroots at the present time is mainly in the hands of the Christian coalition, the pat robertson people and some of the what would we call it the quail people and Phil Gramm, out of Texas wants to run. So what am I saying? I'm saying Are those large states where you have governors like weld Wilson angler? Will those men be reelected in 94? And if they are, will they be a power base large enough to to balance with what is in the rest of the party? What I think will happen is Something that happened in the 66, after the 64 election, some of those senators, governors will be elected, but there will not be enough of them. The new National Party chairman is essentially a right winger who talks about wanting a big 10 to let everybody else in. And I think there will be an enormous fight. And in the final analysis, the same group that was in power in 92, will probably be in power in 96. Except if weld Wilson and some of those when there will be actually a fight in 96, where there was not a fight in 92. Now, as to my own personal approach on this, I told you, I thought very clearly that that I think, for the short term, that the kinds of concerns that we have in this this movement are such that people like myself are going to have to help President Clinton with the various kinds of policy agendas that are coming down the way on a state and local level, it depends. The organization that I represent, has already decided to endorse David, excuse me, Rudy Giuliani, because we think that that his positions on women are fine. But as far as the national level is concerned, my colleagues across the country feel that we do not want to see the fight split between Perot, a right wing, Republican and Clinton, and that we will do what we can on a national level to help that now be on 96. Because of what I said about I'm haunted by a polarization that occurs in this country that has a far right party and a far left party or whatever it is, it doesn't quite work that way. If you're a political scientist, you know, you know, it isn't that way. I can't become a Democrat, and I won't become a Democrat. But what I plan to do, I don't know, in the long haul. Yes, Unknown Speaker 31:58 please. Thank you. I'm Marian Friedlaender, former council woman. Talk about Thank you. Talk about politics. I think, first of all, this, this whole session has been fantastic. And everybody who's here is a real feminist and having an active experience about being a feminist because of the wonderful panel that you have here today. So just want to say thank you first, right. Unknown Speaker 32:31 But I would like to raise a particular question. I know that a lot of people here feel very separated from political life, they don't know how to touch it, how to connect with it, how to deal with it. There are other people who feel oh, I'm only on issues. I don't want to touch politics, because they say politician and spit twice, you know, the way the thing about it. So I just think you are raising the serious question. We just had a wonderful experience of how to improve political representation in the Congress, both Senate and the Congress. Can we bring this down this experience this wonderful lift that we have in the past year, to our local scene, and to it, I want to raise two aspects. One, we are being faced with an attack against primarily women and women's rights by the Robertson group in the elections that are going to take place for the school boards. If ever, how can we participate more between now and May 4, to really do a major struggle against the worst elements in their attacks on women. The second aspect will be that you have the ability to do more about your city council this year, all of them will be up for election for this coming election year. And you can get started now. How can you be in touch to make sure that your principles and your rights and a strong act of struggle is taking place in that kind of representation? Could you just touch on those two aspects of local election, which many of us never get around to? Thank you. Unknown Speaker 34:20 I think there is a great deal to worry about in this round. And particularly here in New York City. It's the Christian coalition is supplying the research and in many cases, the candidates but it's my understanding that Cardinal O'Connor has hooked up with the Christian coalition and in fact, Catholic churches everywhere are going to distribute their literature on who is the endorsed candidate of the religious right wing. One key facet in gaining political power for women is a long standing problem there not enough of us running for public office. We can win if we decide to run And we can raise the money we can gather the campaign workers in, I think we've proven that a key problem is not enough women are running. And I think that all women's active groups have got to get focused on recruiting and helping to recruit and encouraging women to run for office. It is the focus the Christian coalition has taken they are actively recruiting and forming very grassroots networks, it only takes a few votes to win in reality, I think we've all been tricked into thinking that it's the general not the primary that counts and in most cases, and that it takes a lot of money and a lot of votes to win these races. In reality, even congressional races come down in many, many cases to just two or 3000 votes is is what people are winning by. We've got to, I think, do more of the research, get the information out and actively recruit feminists to run for office, and, obviously, then support them once they're running. But it's a key part of this whole effort that has been largely missing. Over the last several years, we've instead focused on targeting our resources, we've been told, in fact, by the male political establishment that that is the savvy political thing to do is to target your resources, you should only run for one or two offices, and put everything you have into those two races, we should have women and feminist women running in every race, everywhere at every level. Because this is not a science, I think political science is a bit of a misnomer. In many cases, it is luck, and being there standing there when the guy next to you falls. So I encourage you all to become active in recruiting, and many of you, in fact, to become candidates. Unknown Speaker 36:53 I would just add that, to what what has been said is not only being active and being candidates, but also being informed. Because the last round of elections in in California at the school board level, demonstrated the stealth candidate concept that is getting candidates on the ballot, whose positions were not clearly known and established and articulated before the election, and getting themselves elected on a low key basis, because it doesn't take huge numbers to win a local school board or a local city council. I know that we're talking about New York City, so it seems to take a lot more. But I know there are also people here who are not from New York City. But really knowing who the candidates are not allowing someone who just simply is not the hot button. And in some cases, an ultra right wing person is on the ballot. And the focus of the opposition goes to that person while the stealth candidate comes in and wins because of the split of the electorate. So being informed is is really very key and not letting anyone go uncovered. To the to the ballot and then possibly risking getting that person elected because we simply didn't know. Unknown Speaker 38:17 Let me just remind everyone that New York City Board of election elections, Board of Education elections are may 4, the first Tuesday in May. And yes, Unknown Speaker 38:30 may I just add that everyone can vote even if you don't have children in the school? And do it, please. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, Unknown Speaker 38:43 I originally came up with one question, but I have to make one. I have to do it a two part question. The one is to Ms. Mellish. In that throwaway remark that you your group was supporting Rudy Giuliani for mayor of New York City. I don't know how you ever came to the conclusion that he would be good for women and the other and you can tell me that but soon as I finish, let me get my other question. And the other thing is directed to Murray. And to all of you I suppose. In the last 20 years of feminism, we rarely hear about how the pervasive negative, how pervasive the negative visual images are constantly communicated. We live in a society in which visual images have probably have the biggest impact on everyone from the little youngest children who are watching Sesame Street to the old people who are sitting in nursing homes looking at TED looking at television all day long. Marie Wilson's question about girls seeing these images about women. And her suggestion about putting up billboards is wonderful. Do you think we could really indeed do such a campaign not only billboards, but PSAs newspaper ads, your newspaper ads, by the way for the girls, bringing the girls to My work has been very good. But I'm wondering if there are ways we can force it. I know it's a lot of money. But I'm wondering if there are ways we can force the institutions to use those public service announcements on in all media to be able to get a real campaign across about what are we seeing about women? And what are our girls, not only girls, but what is everybody seeing about women's images? Unknown Speaker 40:34 The Republican pro choice PAC committee, met with Rudy Giuliani. And two, three different meetings that lasted a series of about an hour and a half and one and two hours in the other. We asked him every question under the sun related to remote reproductive health issues. At the conclusion of those meetings, we were all convinced that he was staunchly pro choice, he would protect the rights of poor women and young women in the city of New York, regardless of what happened at the state and the federal level. And as a result of the those discussions, the Committee voted unanimously to endorse him. And I'm part of that committee. Unknown Speaker 41:22 What about the Catholic Church and Rudy Giuliani? Unknown Speaker 41:26 I'd be happy to talk to you about that later that question was asked, those are privileged pieces of information in the sense that this there were seven or eight of us in that room, those particular questions were asked the questions about and Kathy, who has been on the frontlines of these, these clinics, the whole Lincoln Center clinic problem, those problems related to the protection of the clinics of New York were dealt with the the question of the Catholic Church. And we all felt that, that as the mayor, he would do everything he could do, to see that women had access to those clinics, that stalkers, Operation Rescue people, etc, that we would have, we would have the kind of protection that we felt. So they were asked, thank you. Unknown Speaker 42:15 One of the things that's really good is you can be in a group of women now and have public disagreement. And I think girls will be happy to watch us have these disagreements and, and and we'll learn from them. One thing I love it the the ad campaign that he's referring to is a campaign that says if all she's ever told to be as a good girl, how will she ever grow up to be a great woman, and it has a different group of different women who are grown up and what they look like as young girls. I do think that media has made a great difference. And we have had people come up to us and say just reading that ad reminded them about what they were told and what they want not to do anymore. They're tired of being good girls. So I completely heartily agree, I guess I want to put a plug in for lifetime. Which by the way, we were not able to raise one dime for advertising. Not one dime, everything you see around the country about advertising was donated. So getting a campaign Yes, getting a campaign like this done is enormously difficult. But I think if those of you who know lifetime, they are very into this now. And I think they might be willing with a little encouragement to produce some things that then will get picked up by national television. So call lifetime. Thank you. Unknown Speaker 43:38 Next question over here. Unknown Speaker 43:40 Yes, my name is Arlene Kestenbaum. And my question is specifically to Kathy Stiller, but also in general, to the panel afterwards. You'd mentioned one of the new strategies as gender balance laws. And I wanted to know, what is your strategy to position against the predictable attacks from the conservative spokespeople that these would be quotas, and also relating to the whole idea of gender? Unknown Speaker 44:15 quotas? It's what Absolutely. The argument comes out of the mouth every time when we start talking about gender balance laws and gender balance rules. The reality is, is that we have quotas. Right now there's a quota in the United States Congress that guarantees that 90% of those seats are filled by men. And on corporate boards, there's a quota that 97% of the seats 97% of the seats are filled by men. What we want are rules that open up the whole selection and process of who gets to serve in decision making positions, recognizing that under representation guarantees and fact that our ideas are not represented around those tables. And we want rules that guarantee that women are going to be represented in proportion to our numbers in the population. And I think, frankly, that that the men, if they were really smart would start going for this, because eventually they're going to want to guarantee they get 49%. But it's true. It's always what used against us, I think we got to turn it on its head and said, there are quotas, there's quotas everywhere, there's quotas in the military, until we got Title Nine, there were quotas in the universities, we want a guarantee of equality. And there's only one way to do it. And that is to change the rules, because the rules were made to keep us out, not to put us in. Unknown Speaker 45:51 I would only add to that, that as a member of another, have a group with another characteristic that is the color of my skin that is very often charged with being unreasonable about demanding a fair share, that we've come to the position that we are willing to accept the charge that we're looking for quotas, because if it means rectifying a gross injustice, that is the tradition of this nation, then whatever mechanism is necessary to achieve that must be our agenda. And that we should not be turned aside by charges of from those people who use them and design them to intimidate and to frustrate our goals and our aims. That when we do so and when we allow them to do so we really allow them to undermine our power. So we shouldn't shouldn't shrink from quote quotas from affirmative action from you've got to have your fair share and all of those things. I'd like to have a discussion about that when there is a more reasonable representation of all groups in this country at all levels of our institutions. I might add that it is my view that women have farther to go on this than African Americans do. And I believe that we have made more