Obden Mondesir: Okay, that is what's happening now. Ava you're the co host. And okay, cool. So Sharmaine, have a good one. And I'll see y'all soon.
Sharmaine Smith: Have an amazing weekend, be safe.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Sharmaine we're so glad you could join us. I'm just going to say the date and the names. So it's Friday, July 21. And I'm Ava Sullivan-Thomas. And I'm here with Ana Sofia Harrison, Autumn Johnson. And we're just gonna start with, could you tell me the year you were born and
where?
Sharmaine Smith: I was born in 1969. In New York City at Roosevelt Hospital on 59th street and 10th Avenue.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Thank you. Can you speak a little about your experience living and growing up in New York City and what made it unique for you?
Sharmaine Smith: Um, I grew up in it's had various different names. But for me, it's always Harlem. You know they call it Morningside Heights, some people call it the Valley I grew up on the corner of 125th Street and Amsterdam Avenue in a New York City project building.
And what made it unique was because it was its own melting pot. And it was like one giant meshed family. Even though as in all families, this one doesn't like this one. And that one doesn't like that one. But when it came time to protect one another, or especially with your children, you know, that's going
to pull together that's what I remember the most. And I didn't know we were poor.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: I know in your pre interview you mentioned you don't know who your father is, but could you tell me about your mother?
Sharmaine Smith: So I am the product of a sixteen year old heroin addict, and an unknown DNA donor. My mom, from what I've been told, made it clear that she didn't want me.
You know, my mom left me in the hospital and my grandmother left me there too. But because of pressure, because one lady, I love her to death.
You know, she's a blessing and a curse. Because sometimes I wonder if my life would have been better had I stayed there and went into foster care, you know.
But the lady Ms. Sharadon. Because she came and she told my grandmother that my mom left.
And I was, I was there left to detox the heroin. But then the lady started pressing my grandma like, I don't see none of y'all up there.
I haven't seen none of you Smith's up there to see that baby. You know, and I believe my grandmother came to get me get just to show face–to save face.
You know, because, you know, nobody will go oh, not only the mother left them the grandmother left them too. You know, and that one action, there was the foundation of my childhood.
I was always told my mother didn't want me and she left me. Even sometimes now today, and I just turned 54, it's still resurfaces, that less than feeling and because of that, I suffer from, like, various differences.
You know, one of the biggest one is imposter syndrome. Because I feel like anything that I accomplished, I don't deserve it, somebody's gonna take it.
And, you know, for a lot of many years, probably like, what I'm not gonna let anybody take it. When really, nobody wasn't coming for it.
But that was so deeply planted in me that it was before I let anybody take it, I'm a mess of my own self. And I lost quite a bit of I lost, you know, I missed out on a lot of opportunities.
You know, because life would be just am I too good? Somebody's gonna come take it away. There's somebody else messing with me, I'm gonna mess with him.
And it doesn't go away.
Are you there? Hello.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Yeah, we're here. Sorry. I was just going to–Ana Sophia, do you want to go on to the next set of questions?
Ana Sofia Harrison: Yeah, sure. Thank you for telling us a bit about that. Would you mind speaking now about also what led to your incarceration?
Sharmaine Smith: So, again, I suffered very specific childhood trauma, the greatest one being that I was never going to be [good and I didn't deserve] anything. So okay, first, I tried to do was [excel in] school this and that, and I didn't get the affection from my, what I call today, my
relatives, you know, and, but I noticed that if I did things wrong, everybody knew about it, everybody had something to say.
And because of these different things, you know, one of them including molestation. I searched and sought acceptance anywhere I could.
And so, what am I seeking of affection was, I left New York and found [inaudible] Buffalo. And I became addicted to drugs.
And then after I couldn't take it anymore I told my grandmather, [she said] come home, I came back to New York, that monster was still there. So all of my incarcerations, not just one or two, all my incarcerations are the result of a very deadly and unfriendly substance use disorder, which
was facilitated by me wanting to feel in in a crowd that I now know, say, I had no business in any way.
But, you know, not wanting to be alone. Not even not wanting to be alone, wanting to be accepted. Does anybody tell me that I'm okay, that I matter?
Ana Sofia Harrison: Thank you. What was your experience like seeking treatment for substance abuse while incarcerated? And did you face any barriers?
Sharmaine Smith: So it's ironic, because prior to incarceration [inaudible], so let me just back track a little. So in 2000, I went to Kings College. And, you know, it was the result of my grandmother saying like, you got to do something.
And before that, I had sought treatment. So and each one came with a stipulation, like, are you and this is pre anytime of incarceration, oh, do you have a case pending? Do you have children?
All these things were barriers because no, at the time, I didn't have a child. At that time, I had me get arrested [inaudible]. You know, and I'm stuck. I'm headstrong. So, at forty years old, I got arrested.
Five years prior, I had a child, by someone that I met [inaudible], who the the minute I said, I think I'm pregnant, they were gone.
But again, it was my choice. And I thought I'd never have children. And so I gave birth for fun. And I gave birth to a son that was, you know, that had drugs in his system.
But, you know, knowing that I had a problem, like maybe it was [inaudible] not even like, five days before I signed the practice, and then I had my baby. And the hospital didn't tell me right away, so I thought I gotta away unscathed.
So when they came, they told me to sum it up, because I can get called out. So at that point in time, minimal stipulation because prior to giving birth I had already exhibited the need or the desire to get help. So that first ATF case was closed, [inaudible].
And then you know, the reality of what was going on [inaudible], I'm 35 years old, with child that I have no clue, you know, and in my eighth month, I have relapsed. So, now again, my best friend is back in the picture.
And my child, Ryan's vying for the attention of my best friend, you know, and, like, I made sure my son, you know, when he comes to my house, like there'll be food, there will be, you know, what was necessary. But I use drugs.
And 2005 I said, Okay, I'll go to treatment. You know, and my aunt agreed to take my son for 20 days I was in treatment. And then we had a transit strike. And like, I sometimes [inaudible]. Because I actually, currently it is now two blocks away from where they moved my son.
And, you know, I was seen as being uncooperative or non compliant. Because I'm telling you, the treatment center has so many you had to be there at seven o'clock in the morning. You call me at one o'clock and tell me [to set a ride].
That's no, that's not going to work. Because, you know, I'm asking all the questions to protect me. So what happens if I get to 57th Street and Fifth Avenue and then I have [inaudible], how do I make it the house [inaudible]?
And I also, you know, really, well listen, you can take my son and take him to my aunt. And I will go to treatment. And then it dawned on me, if I'm in treatment, I wouldn't see my son for his second Christmas. And I [inaudible] and I'll never forget it.
That was December 23 2005. That the [inaudible] supervisor, [inaudible] person back to my door. And again, I had just moved there three four days earlier so who knows where I live.
You know, I'm grateful because both times we see [inaudible] the case worker or the screaming child, the police, and she felt that we had that much of a raport that, you know, I understand the brevity of my actions. But it wouldn't be a theme so she didn't bring [inaudible].
You know, that begs a theme, you know, like I didn't say I want to go but this lady wanted me to leave at one o'clock in the afternoon. What happens if I don't get in? That's what I wanted to know. You know, but then the other caseworker he went to court and he got an emergency removal order.
And like 10th and [inaudble] avenue, I walked my son down to the van and I ask where's my son gonna go?
And they were like oh he's going to your aunt's house. And then I'm like how do you know and they're like oh, we talked to her already. You know, which again opened up that door, I'm not good enough, you know, it [inaudible], you know.
Didn't tell the people that I asked my family for help three or four times and they're help is they're still taking my child for one day, then said [now come get your kid].
So again, December 23 2005 my son was removed and it will come back. [When you could've quit] tomorrow and get a urine test. Well, we all know my urine [would burn a hole in the cup]. So I did go to treatment.
But when I came back my best friend was gone, my son, and that was the beginning of the end. You know, because again, sometimes don't take the time
Again, [inaudible] to the point where I knew the police men [inaudible], where you going? Oh I'm going so and so, You want to check me? Do I need to? [inaudible]. And you know, them realizing or not realizing the [inaudible] thing [inaudible].
Because back then and [I don't know if it still exists] but the police stopped me and [inaudible]. So I would engage and you know, oh, we're gonna call [inaudible].
So go ahead call her. You know because I'm saying to myself, when I finish, I didn't know [inaudible] and they can't [inaudible] they can't do anything, you know, like just stop let me see.
They can't do it. You have to wait 90 minutes. I was [sad] and I began to develop, what I call a one crack mother. Because I had lost the job.
So I didn't have that. Matter fact, I didn't even move in with a job I was a [inaudible], and back then it was only [sixty three dollars]. And, you know, the mind is twisted.
The mind has, definitely, you know, the mind is definitely you know, put out some self sabotaging way. Where, you know, on [both sides] cause I would know that I had to go see my son on a certain day. And I couldn't say to 2:15 to 2:35.
And then get upset when my [inaudible] does happen. And [inaudible] Yeah [inaudible]. And it's like, it was just a feeling of like, again, still trying to fit in.
You know, still trying to feel or fake myself with the feeling that I'm normal, that nothing is wrong with me. And that phase, it's a physical, mental, psychological [inaudible]. You know that, that did it.
Ana Sofia Harrison: Thank you for sharing that. As someone who has experienced society's form of carceral punishment, and in response to substance abuse, what has your experience been helping people through community based services.
Sharmaine Smith: Anyone who knows me knows that my motto is no one gets left behind, [because I got left behind so many times.
When I was released from incarceration, it was like never asked where you going, never ask what you're going to do, never ask anything. [inaudible], potentially even angering them I went in because they had the nerve to [inaudible].
So I treat everybody equal until you show me there's a reason to treat you different. Because I say as long as somebody's in the book, I can you know, they don't have to be on the same page, [inaudible] live and die [inaudible] I've sent so many people to do that [inaudible].
Yeah. That's it.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Thank you for sharing that. Can you talk about some of the hardships you faced upon reentry after incarceration and maybe how those hardships led you to the CWP [Coalition for Women Prisoners].
Sharmaine Smith: So Memoral Day, 2009, I got arrested. You know, and I went to jail. And the first time I went to jail, it was like 15 years.
I couldn't even fathom 15 [days]. So, the thing about it is is like I never have been, I think, been stupid or uneducated. And thinking about like, how much work is a public defender really going to do for you and they have like 1,000 people.
I took it upon myself, I wrote a letter to a judge and what I said was no I'm not going to say the police tricked me, no I'm not going to say that I didn't do it, but I am going to say that I'm a person that is in the throes of an addiction that they know nothing about and I did what I needed to do to survive.
You know, I'm always to [scared to steal] or whatever [inaudible]. You know, and when I returned back to the court and [them to give me] Judge Carol and he said [inaudible], and I was like you know this is my first real introduction into the criminal justice arena.
You know, this is a bit more than I'm going to the pen and I'm gonna get a ticket and get out no, and um, so he said did you write that I'm like yes, I did.
You know these are what I want to say, [inaudible], however, I was like [it would be good] to consider, um, that um, you know, basically I told him like I'm not a bad person, but as the result of this ugly addiction like I'm doing what I can to get what at this specific time I felt I believed I needed.
And when I finished talking like you know some people they [inaudible], everybody [inaudible] and he said to me, I'm gonna do you a favor, I was like oh shoot he's gonna let me go home.
He I'm going to adjourn your case for six months. I couldn't figure out how the luck was that, he said figure it out.
[So I] read this and that, started researching, and I realized that the Rockefeller Drug [law] was gonna go into place. The [drug law] repeal was going to go into place, and guess when instead of going to [inaudible] in the summer, I'm going to [inaudible] in the summer.
That's how it started you know, again, the looking for love, making acquaintances with some unsavory characters. And again, you know, the most important thing and I still [set a front], because I now still live in that neighborhood.
You have to be careful of trying to be, [shape built], whatever like me. You know, so. This is taking me you know, this is this is purging [for me].
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: That's really interesting how you wrote a letter to the to the judge. Thanks for including that. Cpuld you talk about how you got involved with the Coalition for Women Prisoners?
Sharmaine Smith: Um, so what happened was, as the result of the judge's favor, right. Um, [didn't know if I'd get out at] six months. I was able to go to ATI which is an alternative to incarceration.
And I went to Green Hope Services for women which at the time was located in the little convent of a church on 119th. [Inaudible].
And I had no clue was CWP [Coalition for Women Prisoners] was [laughs], nothing you know, but because I was quiet whatever, and you know, I was one of the people that had a story about adoption and they were like you're gonna go to this agency and do you wanna go to Albany, but you have to dress
nice and stuff like that.
So, [laughs] mind you I just got there, [you said] did I want to go to the moon with only one helmet, [I was like] yeah I wanted to get out of the building, and find out what I was walking out the building and getting into until I got into the car that I was a [inaudible].
There's people talking about yeah, motion this and that and this and that. You know, I don't [inaudible] we going, and I've not a clue what [inaudible] is gonna be required.
And [inaudible]. One lady, Serena Liguori, [love sweet] is now in the hierarchy of, you know, [inaudible], but she would always have something interesting and [inaudible] to say, you know, [good morning young lady], and it would be a joke.
And [she] made me not invisible, to me. You know.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: So you were a part of the campaign to pass the Adoption and Safe Families Act.
Sharmaine Smith: Yes. We got there, Serena and I forgot the other lady's name. As we're driving to Albany, that's when I find out what we're doing. Like this is not no ordinary, just field trip, this field trip has a purpose.
To me like I was, I was picked because of my situation. So we get up there and there's a flash light, you know flashing lights, movie characters and all that stuff.
I'll never forget first [inaudble] at my government gets up. Talks about the bill and why they want the bill to pass, and you know.
Then Senator Diane Savino, she gets up and you know, she talks about the importance of it, how the reason it was initiated was a good idea, but it fell through. Then, when they, you know, [inaudible] but you know, and then after they finish talking, the last, it was [Velmanette], Diane Savino,
[inaudible], and then [Tamar Kraft Stolar] you know, and they were, you know, advocating for it.
And then we spoke. And the first person to speak was a young lady Brunilda and, yeah, [inaudible] and he spoke about how, you know, [inaudible].
And then it was me. And I spoke about wanting to be alive, but never being shown love.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: I'm sorry, can you just repeat that last part?
Sharmaine Smith: I didn't hear what you said, say it again.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Can you just repeat the last thing you said?
Sharmaine Smith: Oh, so I don't even remember gosh, my mind is a blur. So okay, so these people spoke and they took about, you know, why they wanted it to pass and then the first person that went her name's Brunilda, and then, accompanying with her on the trip was her son, Brandon.
And they both talked about it from their [inaudible], and then I went up, you know. And, you know, I talked about how I'm some 35 years old I didn't know what I was doing.
You know, and just because certain things occurred, didn't mean I didn't want to be a parent to my son. And then another lady went, [inaudble] she talks about her daughter, you know.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: And around what year was this?
Sharmaine Smith: 2010. We went to, okay, so I got arrested in May of 2009, we went to Albany, maybe May of 2010. And I'll never forget June 11th, 2010. David Paterson signed into law, [inaudible].
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: And how did you feel when the bill finally passed?
Sharmaine Smith: I felt grateful that I had played a part, and I felt very, extremely hopeful that no one, [inaudible]. You know. It was too late for me.
Too late for me, you know. But maybe someone else, you know, I was glad this was gonna be able to help someone else.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Making kind of a big pivot here um, but what made you want to major in forensic psychology at John Jay?
Sharmaine Smith: Um, so again, like I said, I grew up in public housing, right? And I grew up in what's called Harlem Valley. So like my building was 125th and Amsterdam, the big giant building that has two entrances.
And when you look at one hill, you see City College of the City of New York. And then when you look at the other hill, you see Columbia University, but then you hear everybody talking about this John Jay College, like it was Harvard, like you had to be someone special, to go to John Jay.
And like, that didn't hit me that, you know what I mean, I was too busy I wanted to be a [Reverend] I wanted to go St. John. And you know, certain things happened, I wound up not going.
And when I learned, when I um followed the man to Buffalo, got addicted to drugs or whatever, but I still reminded myself of certain things. No this time you still have to work.
We want you to work [inaudible] I mean, you know, we [inaudible]. But while I was in Buffalo, I had engaged in schooling at this place called Bryant and Stratton and I had taken [up] criminal justice, then I went to [inaudible].
So anyhow, these are things that like right now [I'm] taking the department education because I need to know, I mean, Bryant and Stratton yes I did well, I excelled. Once I learned [that student loans could fuel] my education, I took them out.
But now Hindsight is 2020, how I was able to keep taking them out? I couldn't remain, I couldn't maintain a 2.0. How was that?
I asked that question because now after all these years because I never let go of the dream that one day I would walk again, you know when you're in elementary school and high school, you [don't walk for you, you walk] because that's your parent's [mandate].
The next two, [you know]. And at the same time, the majority of my life has been searching and seek out I've been searching and seeking some kind of affection, just to belong.
Just to belong because again, the God who I knew before God, my Nana had filled me with so much [inaudible]. I'm not worthy, I'll never have anything.
You know, I'm gonna be just like my mother. Which is one of my biggest motivations behind excelling in [inaudible] education.
Because we all know what happens when you're puffed up with pride and somebody's [inaudible] something that you don't think they deserve. I'll show them.
Okay, so what they saw and they still [inaudible], oh well, I'm gonna kill myself, you know. And then I would hit myself, you know, [inaudible] walk up the steps you know, like, you're not doing all that.
[To jump off] nothing and then what happens is you jump off something and you don't die, now you gotta live with the fact that you're a failure all over again, you couldn't kill yourself. But I also realized that [inaudible], intrinsically, I was killing myself every day.
Ana Sofia Harrison: Alright, so the next question is, I'm taking another little jump. But we did some research prior to the meeting about your answering questions when asked about winning the Malcolm King award at John Jay. And you quoted or quoting you, you said that your plan was to be a proprietor of a
transitional housing program for formerly incarcerated individuals, and that the program would offer job readiness and various resources and social services to the system? What work have you done recently to work toward this plan?
Sharmaine Smith: First of all I'm getting my education so that I can have a foundation to know what I'm doing. You know? While I was a resident of a three-quarters house I was also the house manager, you know.
That one idea has taken on many different facets. I actually have a name for it. And it's called strong for strong.
Just think about it. I don't know about you, but I'm always a strong person that people go to, when I need to shoulder, I'd be better off leaning on a wall because nobody's just putting their shoulder out there. You know?
Oh, shoot. Okay. So, I don't know repeat that question again, because I just went somewhere with that. And I just envisioned, like a whole big house and people with kids that were happy.
And you know, that, to a degree were able to march to their own drum. And they were able to find out, you know, who they were. And really, really, soul search right, what caused the maladaptive behaviors.
Ana Sofia Harrison: Yeah, I think that's a very needed thing. So the idea is to get the formerly incarcerated individuals together, and to have a support system.
Sharmaine Smith: [Inaudible], like I said it's taken on many facets, I don't know, like, have you guys ever seen Cheers?
Ana Sofia Harrison: Seen what?
Sharmaine Smith: Cheers, the TV show Cheers?
Ana Sofia Harrison: No, I haven't. I've heard of it.
Sharmaine Smith: [Inaudible]. You know, so Cheers is like, whatever the name of it was, it's like the neighborhood bar.
And, you know, most of the times, it shows the bar part, you know, and very but everybody was individuals but collected, you know. And whenever anyone came through the door, some people you knew they name, other people, it was a hey, how you doing?
So, just, somebody's acknowledging that I'm here, you know, and that, you know, the the housing thing, yeah, but, you know, the thing about it is like sometimes we wear so many hats, where do we go to take over hats? And just be. Whatever it looks like to you. Just be.
And be in the presence of people that do the same thing that you do. So that you come in and you don't speak they understand. [Inaudible] think they are.
And you know, they have various different compartments, you know, [like here this] is a bar and a restaurant, and then you walk back and let's make this a Black history room or meditation room, and then there may actually be a [inaudible] room and because you know, a lot of times when you go to aftercare
[once you've seen your] aftercare [contact] you have no more help.
[Or whenever] they just have that off day, [inaudible] keep down and whoosah. You can't do it at home [because] of your husband, wife, [inaudible].
Can't do it at home because you know, whatever relationship you're in. Even if it's, you know, ironically, like I love, I have a four month old puppy.
I love my puppy, but sometimes that's not the first thing I want to do, when I walk in the door is play with you. And deal with your over affectionate-ness. You know.
Ana Sofia Harrison: Thank you. Have you taken recent steps kind of toward this plan?
Sharmaine Smith: Well, we [inaudible] at $2 over lunch money. However, when I see certain philanthropy groups and they you know they'll have a contest for people that want to start businesses and you know promote your ideas so that's [the way I've been] going in now.
And then you know the other thing is is like [inaudible] my shit is it took me seven years to get into John Jay, like to get into college period because of the different environment that I came out of substance abuse treatment [was supposed to]. I was in a three quarter house, I was sleeping in a bunk
bed in a room with seven other women.
If myself or my neighbor sat up, we would have to bump so we had to [inaudible]. And um, like any dysfunctional family, sometimes we got loved sometimes we didn't you know.
And then I saw you know, don't get me wrong, [inaudible]. There were three family houses 40 of us in there, between two floors.
And um, no support and then it starts out [inaudible] you know, then you will [inaudible] have their money, but the people that do know are gonna have their rent money, they all need somewhere to go when it's all done.
And at that time I just graduated from [Samaritan Village], um I was living with my quote unquote aunt in Yonkers, I was going to my welfare work job in Yonkers, and then turn around and go [inaudible], and while that might seem insignificant, that's a consistency that's something
that I could bank on and that was gonna happen.
So anywho, long story short trips are shorter as part of my condition of my graduation from Samaritan Village, I had to go to 12 [step]. So it was maybe like 15, 16 of us and we were all recently graduated from the program, right?
So what happened after 16 months, oh, I get a cup of water and I give you a cup you get your own water now we [eating out the water fountain], now we [eating out of] this and that, you know.
Life has taken some very, some twists and turns, I've forced myself, I you know I've brought it on myself you know. I learned that, had to learn that nothing is [inaudible] you have to step back and see if I caused that [sun to go out].
Or you know, I don't know. It's just, one thing I know for sure right, good better and different. And trauma, incarceration, not too sure about the removal of my child.
But those things I wouldn't trade if I had if I could rewrite my story. Because those are the things that allow me to realize [inaudible].
Ana Sofia Harrison: Thank you, and how has your involvement with the CWP [Coalition for Women Prisoners] impacted your goals for the future?
Sharmaine Smith: It allows me access to a group of women, a group of dynamic women. Tamar and Jaya I love them. You know, and during my journey in CWP it wasn't always straight you know.
I relapsed. Got arrested again a couple of times. Anytime I called either one of them, you know whether it was Bronx Defenders or Manhattan Defenders, where their [inaudible] their affiliation. That was my first experiment of people wouldn't give up on me.
Ana Sofia Harrison: Thank you, um, and I guess if you, we're sort of wrapping up, but if there's anything you'd like to add, we still I mean, since we started a little late we still have you know, we can give a little more time. But really, it's up to you as well.
Sharmaine Smith: This journey, like it's not over, you know what I mean. Recently, I came to realize that everybody who said they wanted to get my life together really didn't.
And it was hard because I realized it was my family. September 11 2023, I'm 11 years clean.
Subsequently as a result of my addiction and incarceration, my maternal aunt adopted my son and that, you know, you participate in my [inaudible]. Because my grandmother raised me and they have a paperwork [inaudible].
My other aunt raised my other cousin, and eventually turned into [inaudible] mother. [Inaudible].
What was it about me that I had [inaudible] like that it had to be me who, that my partner, this young man's life, my sons now 18, was obliterated. Because when you adopt a child, the natural parents names are taken off the adoptive parents.
What was it about me that I wasn't even worthy enough for it to be written down somewhere that I gave birth.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: Well, thank you for sharing that with us. And congratulations on being 11 years clean. That's amazing. And I'm so glad that you could take the time to talk with us. And I'm sure you'll be hearing from Obden soon. And yeah, I hope you have a lovely weekend and stay safe.
Sharmaine Smith: You too, you know, and like thank you guys. Because I can say, you know, my aunt that adopted my son she recently passed away.
[Inaudible]. So my son's 18 now. He's been so conditioned right, and the thing about it is I can't even be mad.
Because I [inaudible], you know. Where negative things are said about my mom, like, not to my face. But I'm in the same house and you talking about my mother. I'm gonna soak that in. Know what I mean?
And, you know, the thing that puts me at odds with my family is they're so facetious. Know what I mean? [Inaudible].
And I can't, I can be mad but I can't be mad. Because I have to respect, I don't have to, I don't have to accept you, like I respect that's who you are.
And it's like, their worth is built on external stuff. And I'm not gonna [adhere to] that drum like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna pitch into that party when that's my way in.
Because [not for nothing] I already tell this to people, if you put cream cheese frosting and rainbow sprinkles and pretty candles on a pile of shit at the end of the day, what is it? It's still shit.
And unless it's dealt with, and washed away, so we don't [stink]. You know.
And the explosion has always been in the implosion. Because that's when you know something's wrong.
And once I decided that I was going to explode and I was gonna throw up like all the stuff that was [fed into me] you know, [inaudible] I forgave my mom, whether it was true or not but at 16 years old you don't even know yourself and then you're addicted to a drug now you're pregnant, you don't even want
yourself how can you want another human being?
You know. I said my grandmother treated me the way she treated me because she knew at this stage in my life that I was pretty much going to be on my own, like I had to learn how to do my own two.
And even with the molestation by my uncle I had to ask myself, people aren't born thinking stuff like that is okay, so what could happen to him that made him think doing it to me was okay and lastly I'm walking around [inaudible] dead they don't know it. [Woosah, woosah].
Me because [inaudible], my aunt got my kid, she won't let anybody take my kid you know, and I hide behind intelligence you know, and I walked around and dressed up bum, because in all reality inside I was a whole mess.
And I can't expect to throw that ball up in the air, [inaudible] just immediately you know, the yellow go yellow, the green go with the green red go with the red because it didn't happen. So I have to [inaudible]. But that's about it.
Ava Sullivan-Thomas: I think that's a good note to end on. I'm gonna go ahead and stop the recording.