Unknown Speaker 00:03 It was a group closing this, we want to find out more that you might know here, Jane Madison's very good at getting answers from people volunteer. Unknown Speaker 00:15 Just got it. Right. Well, first of all, I want to thank you all for coming. As they said this morning on this pretty horrible day. And we're going to tell all about our stories later on if you'd like, but we wanted to gear it to what people were interested in hearing about. So it would be helpful to us if we could do maybe a show of hands and then maybe we can ask a more specific question as to how many of you are thinking about becoming single mothers, for example, is that one reason why some of you are here? And how many of you, if any, are already single mothers and ready? Okay. Teach me how many of you are interested in the subject? Anything? Other than for personal reasons? Right? That's another possibility. And Would any of you just be willing to say a little bit about what you'd like from this panel? Unknown Speaker 01:15 I'm considering something to think about in the future. But I'm talking with single mothers I know it seems like the most important thing success is a good support system. And so I would be interested in learning Unknown Speaker 01:33 Yeah, that's very important. Anybody else have any specific things they want to hear Unknown Speaker 01:39 back yeah just decided not so just didn't expect Unknown Speaker 02:18 anybody else thinks they'd like to make sure we cover Unknown Speaker 02:25 both I also consider adopting Unknown Speaker 02:41 transracial adoption Okay, anybody else? kids out there. And I really do this. What the heck single mother, right. Okay. These are all things you think you've covered? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 03:26 I just picked up your book by the downstairs and read the introduction just to taste and touch on the world to train Unknown Speaker 03:38 nationally. And to live in Unknown Speaker 03:42 New York City to very sparingly. Do it on a day to day, right. Unknown Speaker 03:51 What a day in your life. Unknown Speaker 03:52 Yeah, that's a great question. Wonderful questions. Anything else? We should cover this? You'd like to hear about? practicality? Yeah, interesting. I Unknown Speaker 04:11 grew up with a single mom that ultimately helped single mom Unknown Speaker 04:16 told me that that's the wrong way. The habit of choosing a positive choice. Can I just ask just for our own information, how many of you are between let's say 20 and 25. Unknown Speaker 04:44 And how many between 25 and 30 and 30 and over Unknown Speaker 05:00 Maybe we can each introduce ourselves and talk about why we're here. And then we'll move on to the rest of your questions. And tell us just say your situation. Okay. Unknown Speaker 05:11 Part of what I was thinking that those specifically some of the concerns, name is I ticular situations a little bit, I was married in my 20s of homes disabled family. About five years ago, I was coming up to your relationship, someone and started dating. Because I have two tiers, and never really connected with another person in a way. And I began to hear many of my friends were single, adopting, and many of them were my age, and I realized that this was possible. And one relationship I don't think twice about it's I felt. With that relationship, I began to miss the family. Because my daughter was severely disabled, to create that community and families see something is this really happened, that's when I really enjoyed that mothering process some years ago, and felt like that was the connection. And the, the twist on the particulars panel is not a single. And that is another issue that factors into many daily life situations. Going to so I was connected to a very positive feeling from that day. positive experience that has happened is as tired as I am, at the end of each day juggling what we will have to do. I'm completely energized. And it's just so miraculous to see life through that. Those pure memorize, again, I'm rushing along and my dog who's now seven. One, we have to stop, look at this flower, and we stop and look at the flower. It's just a gift that's been given to the Divine stuff. I adopted because I was, I was almost I definitely did not want to start with a child care those first few months, and my first daughter, she could connect with me start to speak. And I was looking for an older child and too much older child and I want to have some input, or the connections a little more bond bonding. If that child has to ask for a child she's forgotten as a single parent. It's very important to get that in each trial. So that that's enough, now we can go into some details. Unknown Speaker 09:21 I adopted a child. And I adopted a child who's now seven when I adopted him it's hard to believe that seven years have gone by. It's an amazing experience. But there is a group for those of you who don't know called New York singles adopting children, which I found out I have brochures that I'll give you because I'm very involved in the group. Now I found out about it when I was first adopted. It was just intuitive. The group is a support group and it's voluntary and we don't have our own phone number. So it's not always six That's simple, people don't know it exists. But I found out and I got involved. And that helped me adapt. And so for people who are interested, it's also great because most of the women who we have men and women, majority women, most of us who come to the jump, arrive at the decision. So you're in good company in terms of fellow travelers, who are there for a few fortunate people arrive at the decision earlier, but most of us don't. And so it provides a support system, for those of you who are talking about support as well, in addition to the one that you develop in your personal life, which is often often comes out of the group, plus other people. Adoption isn't as hard as people think. And there are lots of ways to get information about adoption. And I can give people phone numbers later. So if you want to bring a child into an office, if you're considering it, not to feel that it's impossible, because you're older, in terms of like when they said going to another country. Sometimes you need to do that, depending on what type of child you want. But if you, for instance, China, you mentioned China is right now a very big source. But there are other ways to do it people in the US adoption is expensive. Now people are going to manage to do it. Without without it being a big expense. And I adoptions a very strange thing now and adoption, social workers are very involved in the field, it's quite strange because things change from moment to moment. And depending on how you want to adapt what's available at any particular time, when I adopted my son, it was the time of the border babies. In the city and border babies were children whose mothers usually had been found to be addicted to cocaine or some other drug and the babies were not discharged from the hospital with their families. And there was a program in Brooklyn, which was a temporary order baby program. And what they did was placed newborns as close to newborn as possible in family so that they wouldn't have to languish in the hospital while the agency made plans to reunite them with their family or extended family. That was the goal of the program. So you had them for three month periods of time. And I did that with the time because I wanted to see if I was ready for my workload. And I wanted to see if I can manage a baby and come home every day, I was working full time at a hospital that at that particular time, and I wanted to see if I could actually do it. So it was a great way to do it. Now there are very few board a baby, there are less, they may be coming back into existence, but they were less bored of being probed until the last few years because the goal was for Family Preservation and to send the children home, even if they tested positive with their taxes. Testing because the mother would go into detox or whatever. That will be reverting back to having these children. But anyway, that was a pocket of opportunity that was available in 1980. I can use 87 Ada when I was adopting that, that isn't that available now. So I guess even though I did it, I then went to another agency and had the board of babies and told them that I based on my experience there, I would take a baby who was born positive for drugs. And, and it turned out that they had a well baby over time, and they offered the wellbeing to me and I adopted him. But that opportunity doesn't exist because that agency no more, no longer places, infants. I also adopt a translationally I adopted an African American and Indian baby. And so that has been a factor in our lives. And I'll be happy to talk about that later. Unknown Speaker 14:10 So we have a lot to deal with single parenting and transracial. And he's a boy most of the women in the globe in New York singles adopt girls because they feel it will be easier. Just in terms of that they feel that they have more in common in a certain way they know more in terms of their own growing up. I wanted a board and so I adapted the board. That's my personal preference and that's the kind of preference you can indulge in adoption. So Unknown Speaker 14:46 my name is Tony Royster. My daughter Avery Rose is two and a half years old and she joined my family through adoption when she was Five weeks old, she is domestic child, she's an African American child. I came to this phase of my life, being an adoptive mom, after many, many years of thinking about it, I mean, this is not a decision to jump into quickly, that's for sure. And it also took me time to get rid of a 17 year marriage, before I felt free to do what was really important to me to do, and that was to Mother nurture, raise a child would share my life and my family with the child. I was 45, when every rose came to me. And one of the things I think that's one things I think you hear a lot about is how long it takes to get a domestic child. And I think we should talk about that later. But my own experience, and I don't think that it's exclusively because she is an African American child, I think there, it really depends. But my own experience was that it went very quickly. And part of it was because I when I finished my home study, which is part of the procedure, and maybe somebody will talk about that, but it's something that every state, as far as I know, requires that you go through this procedure to be approved, officially approved to be an adoptive parent. And when my home study was done, I sat there with my arms open and waited for a baby to be placed in my arms to be cuddled, and it didn't happen. Even though, you know, you hear that there are lots and lots and lots of babies, particularly minority babies, and you know, biracial babies, African American babies to be adopted, it just didn't happen. And it didn't happen until I became more proactive about it. When I started the process, I was practicing law at 18 hours a day. And, you know, I didn't have time to really focus and I can't reach the point, about six months after I finished the home study where I really decided that the important thing to me was to get this job done. And so I decided to essentially quit, to retire from the law firm, which I founded. And, and nurtured and raised, I mean that, you know, instead of taking care of 100 people, I was going to take care of one person, the way to get to that point was to stop worrying about 100 people and worried that me and the baby that was going to come. So I did stop working. And from the time that I stopped working to the time that he was arrived in my home was less than two months. So it can happen quickly. I mean, I I do believe that I was fortunate to a be in a position. Fortuitously, financially, almost a sequencing kind of path, professional path. I mean, I finished school, I started a career, I rose in that career, I made some money, I save some money, and I could afford to stop. Not everybody can do that clearly. And I was able to stop. Am I have been more or less home with the baby for two and a half years since she arrived. I've worked very, very part time. But it's an you know, it was an option that I had I took advantage of. And not everybody can but I couldn't it's one of the things you know, you need to think about and plan for, you know, you're young enough to do that, or in a position to do that. But at any rate. You know, in less than two months, there was a child in my life and infant child. And the rest is history. I guess as they say, We can come back to some of the other things. Unknown Speaker 19:20 Well, I'm the only one who didn't adopt. And I'm only besides my own situation, which was an accidental pregnancy that I decided to continue with. I also am representing on this panel insemination in vitro, donor egg, anything else you want to hear. I was 36 when I became pregnant, and the father of my child said something in a horrified tone. Like you're not going to have an abortion and I said no I decided I want to have this baby because I may never have another chance to have a baby that time I thought I still think 3637 is on the late end of your fertility years. So I decided to go ahead, and he said goodbye. And that was the last day. He participated in our, in our life, so to speak. So I didn't have very little time to make this decision. And I don't recommend it as the ideal way. But on the other hand, it wasn't that hard for me to make this decision, because I had always sort of in the back of my mind thought that if I wasn't married by a certain point, and I didn't really know what that point was, but then I would probably have a child of my own or adopt a child, I hadn't really focused it that much. But I, I couldn't have imagined and I can't imagine, having spent my life without being a mother. At some point, however, I became a mother didn't really seem to be that crucial to me. So that was a long time ago, my son is now 16. And so I've been through all the various stages of motherhood. And I agree with a lot of what's already been said that the support system is so valuable. I thought that right at the beginning, so actually, by the time my son was one, I had started an organization, which I didn't realize I was starting at the time. But I got together actually, what I did was I sort of put out the word network, I think, is the term now. I knew that tournament, told everybody I knew that I wanted to find other single women who had babies who were my age, you know, in their mid 30s. And who were raising the child alone. And I made an actual date and time for these unknown people show up at my house. And much to my amazement, eight women showed up, some were pregnant, a couple were thinking about doing this, and a couple already had new babies, my son was the oldest, a couple of months. And out of those eight people became the organization single mothers by choice, which now has about close to 3000 members, all over the US and Canada. And this was not my intention, I repeat, I really was trying to build a little support system for myself first. And then I thought ultimately, for my son, it would be very valuable for him to know other children who were growing up in similar families. And so that was my goal. And it was so effective, in fact that I was shocked when he somehow communicated to me that he thought single mother families were just the kind of families that everybody had. And that it was, it was a shock to him when he was about eight or nine to figure out that this was unusual. So I had succeeded beyond my wildest expectations, in conveying to him that, you know, our family was just a fine sort of family. He actually informed me at nine from never forget, he said, you know, did you realize that most people get married first? Yes, actually, I had heard of that. That was out how incredibly, you know, amazing, this whole thing was funny. But anyway. So I do agree about the support system. Being very valuable, it has been very valuable. And I suppose we'll come back to all these other parts of the things that we say some of Unknown Speaker 23:37 the stuff besides the personal friends and family that we have, instead of belonging to groups where there are single moms I belong to singles. And I belong to a group that's available from the the game has been centered on the Upper West Side, lesbian moms, many of them are in couples. So that sort of country is exposed to two moms. But it's been most valuable to her as she's growing up and trying to figure out who she is in the world, and to being a school system where everybody seems to have a mommy and daddy when she was kindergarten. I understand that changes in the divorce and start setting. But let me say no, you know, Ben, she doesn't have a daddy Benji is here with Derek here or Rachel has two moms and she gets to see, yes, she belongs to me. She knows us. We try to have events together, not just for the moms and having support. Kids can play together. And to say that they're not that different. And there are people that have been enormously helpful have been gone through all the different stages. Unknown Speaker 25:02 I also wanted to put in a pitch for extended family as a model. In the old version of extended family before, it was very wrong to do that was referred to in the panel this morning, everybody started to compartmentalize their families, and how having grandparents and uncles and cousins and, you know, with all different stories of their own, just really enriches your own family life and your own child's life. Unknown Speaker 25:31 Literally just finished the supports Secretary court system section, I found that I came very much closer to my mother and my sister when the baby came to mind. And that, that was a wonderful thing sort of regeneration of, of my own life. The thing that was disappointing to me in terms of support systems was my adoption threatened a lot of my friends who were without children. Exactly. My motherhood, right, the adoption of my baby, threatened some of my friends, we've been friends for a long time. Initially, they were elated and thrilled. And you know, I did it and how could I do it? Isn't that wonderful. And then, you know, sooner or later, there is a threatening aspect to it. So I, I did not remain close to a lot of my friends after the adoption, which made it all the more important that I found groups like single mothers by choice, and New York singles adopting and I belong to the adoptive parents committee in New York. And I belong to something called a sack, which is African American, single adoptive parents, and it gets expensive. But it's also a way to find people with whom you can connect, and people with whom you can pick up the phone when the issue arises. And no one else that you know, has experienced that issue that you can really call on someone. And you know, you're not going to this is not you don't go to these groups, and you're friends with everybody you find maybe one and maybe you don't, at least you maybe don't that particular week, and maybe do another week, and I rarely get to meetings anymore. I get to, you know, a couple of years of each group now. But in the beginning, I'm I schlepped from Connecticut, to New York, virtually every other weekend, because there was no support system like this, where I live in Connecticut. And so I made the effort to find the systems that were going to support me. And I think that's really important to keep in mind. Unknown Speaker 27:53 Yeah, it brings different aspects and different people to life than formal. And I found that as well. For example, this, I have a brother, I have grown nieces. So now they are a big part of my life, because they take my son and they are active with him. Because of the different generations. So I'm mixing in my life with people who are more so now with people than I did before and more income with them. And they're having their own children than I do with my brother. It's just and I have also found that single friends without children have been the most helpful because even though I love my single friends who have children, they're in the same situation I am in for talking and discussing issues spray, but in terms of practical, having someone there who can help and be available, my single friends who advocates have been the best. So you find those things, you don't really have to have them set in place before you do it. But it's good to nobody told me to start thinking about that. But it's something that happens. If you start thinking about it's a good idea. I think I've I've perhaps lost one friend who's completely single and her joy in life is to be able to come and go whenever she wants if she has no patience. But most of us are the blessing for them. They have the joy of seeing this child and taking her to the movie or or teaching her this thing. And they don't have to keep recreating this table for the day or an hour. And I've gotten closer to some of my friends who don't have children than before. In Vietnam, Kashi is sometimes has trouble deciding which one of her grownup friends is the closest to Worlds family. Unknown Speaker 29:56 Maybe we could talk a little bit about why we some some of you want to know why we decided to do this? When we asked you before, what you'd like to hear about. So maybe we could just say a little bit about why did we decide to do? Unknown Speaker 30:11 Well, I think I kind of answered them. And I think, for me, it was very important to share my life with a child and to mother and nurture the young person along that's, I was able to give a call to a child and like, sometimes look at him and say, God, where would you be? You know, if to myself, obviously. And I think that's my answer. I mean, yeah, that is my answer. Unknown Speaker 30:54 This seems that when you do this, Unknown Speaker 30:58 that you have to absolutely, absolutely want to do this session. But when you think about it, when you 20 have that option with figure one. Go. But seems so is my insurer, or should they do? Absolutely. This is what you want to do? And I don't know how you know, absolutely. There. So, yeah, Unknown Speaker 31:30 I think one of the things you need to start going to one of the support groups, and talking to the people who are making that decision and seeing some of the people to start meeting to go over some of their trial plans, and they start bringing them to the needle and get a feeling if it feels right, or to you or not as right. I think I think we saw a lot of people who hadn't made up their mind yet, but we're interesting. So so a social worker who's part of the group and she runs short term pools for people who are feeling for people who really want to spill it out. And they say that it's very useful. Whatever decision, you arrive at each to arrive at. So that's been useful to you, you're not alone. There is a lot of ambivalence, I had turned down a child. Before I adopted my son, I had put papers into Costa Rica, because when I came to the group, that was the hotspot, and everyone in the group was adopted from Costa Rica, these adorable little girls, and I wanted one. And so I put in my papers. And what happened was, that when the child's picture was sent to, I just couldn't go through that. And I still don't know all the reasons. I mean, I have a feeling about some of them. They're not, it's not that important point is that I could not go through with it. And I was going to start building people. And then I got a call from this other agency where I said, I would take a board of baby, the baby came, and instantly, I was not looking to do a transracial adoption, I was not looking for it for anything other than you know, at that point, I wanted a boy, and immediately so you kind of know, in a way, you can be ambivalent, and you can sort it out. And that's good. And you can try to form a group or you can join a group that already exists. But somehow and this is what most people who adopt, say that you do have a feeling when it happens that you really want to do Unknown Speaker 33:35 it, you have to do it. Unknown Speaker 33:48 Or any decision that you make any commitment that you make, you have to start to, you know, somebody once said this example, in order to pick something else up with this hand, I have to let go of this. You know, you can't have you can't have every possible choice open to you, the minute you make a choice, you eliminate certain other things. And there's plenty of support for your process of decision making and that you should make it slowly. I'm a psychotherapist in private practice. And I have actually seen people for consultations quite because of the book if people come in about this issue. I've had to give people permission not to do this, which is a real turnaround from when I first started dealing with this issue and people needed permission to do it. It's okay to decide that you don't want a mother also and that has to be said I think it's not you know something to feel guilty about. It's just you have to be clear what you want. And the The organization also runs both a thinkers workshop for people who are thinking about this, and then I personally run a stuck thinkers Workshop. job seekers, people to to figure out what you know, what is the obstacle and or obstacles and, and how to move on one, you know, make a decision and move on some people. I actually know one woman who thought about this actively for 11 years before she actually did. I also know some people who thought about it almost as long as decided not to do it. So, yes, I mean, I think in any big decision where there's a commitment, you have some ambivalence, and the question is, how do you deal with that ambivalence? And how do you make a decision that you can live with and grieve, I mean, part of what I think I had to do was grieve the dream, you have the dream that I when I was a little girl, I had the towel on my head, as you know, the, the bridle, trail unveil, and the holes with the towels and the sheets, and I was marching to the wedding march up and down in my room, I'll never forget doing that. And thinking that I, you know, someday I was gonna be that bride, and I'm just gonna, and I really had to do some grieving that I was not going to have it in the traditional order, at least if I was going to have it at all. Because I was going to have the baby first. And that permanently changed that dream. Unknown Speaker 36:17 Sometimes it's, it helps to take a step, one of the things I consciously did was to start the process of the home study. So that my position was that it's done. And then I can decide to do to go forward with taking steps before adoption, when I'm ready. Now, that doesn't last forever. And it has to be updated from you know, if you go beyond a year, I think it is or 18 months, whatever it is. But I knew it was giving me some lead time. What was fascinating to me was by the time that process was over, I was reading homes home study. Unknown Speaker 36:58 Most of the time, I mean, most people don't do that way. Because that it's best for most people not to spend time and money on the home study when you really need to make the decision and figure out whether this is something you really want to do. But I was 100% Sure I'm going to do it. And then I rejected the first child that was shown to me. So you can't always be that. Sure. And but you can proceed when you grab into looser. With you know, this what? Otherwise, it's kind of best, I think, to get your ducks in place and figure after you know, it's a very neurotic making process and just becoming a parent undertaking. It's, it's enormous. It's an enormous responsibility and this enormous change and just doing it is so frightening. And you can get coffee, you could say what am I doing. And that's when you need other people to talk about and see the realities, and if you can do it. So those are normal part of it, like you say, any commitment and any big decision. Unknown Speaker 38:02 I just want to mention that even though I was pretty clear that I wanted to be a mother and that the decision was not that hard for me. I have said to myself, if I give birth, and I see this child, and I am totally and completely freaked out. I can always make an adoption plan, and somebody who wants his baby. So even I gave myself the app up until, you know, right after I gave birth even in case I had been living in some sort of delusional state and I woke up, you know, I really wanted to make sure that I gave myself some option until, you know, once I had this chat, I felt more clear. And I think then you also adapt to your decision. You know, whichever decision you make you find reasons why it's right for you, and you put other things in place and then become abundant. If you just eat away, if you decide not to do it, you probably will be counting your blessings. But you know, Unknown Speaker 39:01 it's been it's a different decision making process in terms of Unknown Speaker 39:07 having your own child Unknown Speaker 39:10 adopting a child, I guess at some point, this step. Unknown Speaker 39:15 Well, I'm glad you asked that because I really am being relaxed about the other methods. Most of the women who come to single mothers by choice have conceived by insemination, about 20% have adopted. So we do have our share of adoptive mothers but it to make the decision to go about getting inseminated is similar to making the decision to adopt in that you have to take active, unusual steps that most people in their lives don't have to do to become a mother. So you have to find a sperm bank, you have to know what kind of donor you want. You have to decide whether you want a known or an unknown donor. Whether you know you want somebody there's so many complications And in, in any of these decisions, when well, I can't speak for you, but in adopting also the domestic or foreign, when maybe or which agency or not an agency, what age child, what race child, I mean, there's just so many, whereas, you know, in the traditional route, you, you just have sex make baby. So yeah, you do have an extraordinary process going on. That's why these support systems are so useful. Because as somebody said, when they walk into the room of one of either single mothers by choice or nice deck and our members overlap, and we are friends, you find in 15 minutes, a wealth of information that would take you probably a year or two to gather on your own, you know, doctors, agencies, lawyers, all that kind of stuff is instantly fingertips. I mean, you know, anything about adopting by being a foster parent and being tied to Unknown Speaker 41:08 somebody, or about my understanding is that there are many children, for adoption in this country for American children. Unknown Speaker 41:20 And I always sort of wondered why. Unknown Speaker 41:32 Basically, the reason that people go to foreign countries to adopt a child to, let's say, three to one is, and it's called a private adoption, as opposed to foster, which we call a public system adoption available in the state systems, is because children in this country who are that age, arrive in foster care through negative circumstances, either abuse or neglect, they've been taken away from the family, here, here, and so people who want some people feel that the children are emotionally impaired, or the children spend many years of foster care and aren't available. And so they older, most people are looking for relatively young children and healthy children. And so they go to a country where they feel they are in the orphanage because there's poverty, but it isn't necessarily abuse or neglect. Sometimes it is there as well. If you want to adopt a child here, though, who was two or three, who was in the forest, as a single person, it is not all that easy to get that age child even here, even if you're willing to take a child with emotional physical handicaps, because those children are more universally desirable. So what it means is that there are couples out there waiting for these children, families with two parents that can take these children. And that is usually the preference. There are people in our group who some single men, and some single women who adopted through the foster care system by becoming foster parents and bringing children into their home, children who were legally free to be adopted. So there's what's called the blue books in the state of the blue books, because they are the binders of children that photo listed in the state when they are free for adoption. And agencies and libraries and other organizations have these books. And you can go in and you can work with an agency, you can look through the box and find the child you're interested in the agency who is the agency who has in charge of that child, either having that child in foster care or an institution is the agency that has to prove you and your agency. So it would single people, if there was a young child and saw it wouldn't be that likely that you would be able to get that child. If you saw a little older child 789. That may be more of a possibility there is a man in Auckland adopted a six or seven year old and he really persisted. And he persisted with a fairly traditional agency and somehow he managed people in the group have worked out amazing situations, things that were relatively impossible, because of the will was strong enough that they made it happen. Yeah, well, an infancy is here. And then a child and he adopted privately private, you can do anything. It's in the public sphere, that it's harder. Unknown Speaker 44:38 Probably you can adopt infants. Oh, and they're Unknown Speaker 44:41 easier than infants are easier than older children. Because in this country, older children don't come into the system. And they do they have public children and it's a whole different set of circumstances. But anyway, but the thing is this that if you wanted to get a foster child, you'd go to an agency, you would get Just do with that agency, you would tell them what your needs are that you would like a child who may become available for adoption. And it may be possible to get the child that you want. And you could tell them that you wanted a reasonably young child and see what they say. And you would go to an agency that's friendly to singles, that is not anti transracial, if you're willing to do a transracial, because that will broaden the arena for you. And it's it's possible, it's just more difficult when it isn't true. They give some subsidies, you know, I Unknown Speaker 45:31 help you with it. Right. When you get paid from Apple. Unknown Speaker 45:36 Not just with foster care, children adopt special Unknown Speaker 45:39 needs children, which you know, variously defined in the various states, you can get subsidies for Yes. Financial Assistance, yes. Unknown Speaker 45:49 And much financially, it's it's adoption. Special Needs his child too. There are different definitions. A child who has a certain age, once they've been in the system for a certain amount of time, they are automatically special needs a child who is born with a physical disability, especially a child who is an emotional disability or some kind of impairment could be special. There's a tremendous range. Yes. That's right. Unknown Speaker 46:27 Extreme your side. Unknown Speaker 46:31 Your site is good, especially as compared to Unknown Speaker 46:38 doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what is it isn't correctable? Unknown Speaker 46:40 Right. Unknown Speaker 46:42 It's just how determined at that point, Unknown Speaker 46:46 I feel it's very important to say that, in my experience, and now I've been around this whole phenomenon for 17 years, I guess. You can do exactly what you want. You can get the child that you want, whether it's by your own biological process or by adoption, if you want to be a single mother, our experience is that we are very determined bunch of women and men as well. Some of them and you can you really have to clarify within yourself what you want, what kind of baby or child do you want, and then you will find maybe that is optimistic you can only there's all wrong information there out there. So find out what you want. And then go to the experts and find out how to Unknown Speaker 47:39 talk about what your average day is like. Unknown Speaker 47:47 I'll wait till the end because my day is he ignores me. Unknown Speaker 47:57 Gonna come to you. Well, a lot of us change what we do or change our hours. For people who work at night and number of the women in the group we bring to the schedule to work during the day, you do have to make certain adjustments. I was working full time in the psychiatric social worker in the hospital for the first two years of my son's life. I brought him to family daycare, and I picked him up at the end of the day, and it was fine and met my needs. And it seemed to be fine for him. But it was tiring in the sense of just practical things like laundry and shopping and I lived in a six foot walk up, do anything you want to the studio sucks for longer. And it wasn't a hardship. I used to take him in the laundry, and the groceries and make it up the stairs. And if I left something out, there's like go back down. And I just did it. And I and everyone just taped so hard. But it wasn't because I was doing what I was looking back, I could never do it again. And I don't know how I did it either. But I will tell you at the time, it was not difficult. But what I found was that I really was distorted to go into school and I wanted to have more time. And I knew that it would be hard. I even felt guilty because I left him at the daycare when at the family daycare provider one day when he was sick. And by the time I picked him up and evil we ended up in the emergency. And I thought first of all I should have stayed home with him that day. This is sheer stupidity on my part. I couldn't but I didn't. But I also began to think that I wanted to have a better schedule and have more time with him. So I left my job. And what I did was I had to make it work and I went into the social work that the adoptions full time doing private home studies, and they also got into housing which is hard to convey. So I was able to make I'm able to make a low income and still and have my rent adjusted And Megan's meet, which I wouldn't be able to otherwise. And it's a bigger apartment than before. So I'm really fortunate. But I sought that out before I left my job because I knew I had to be able to support it. And now when he's in school, it's wonderful. Because I make my own hours, I don't have a full time practice. But because I have affordable rent, I don't need one. And we live sparsely. But more commonly, so I changed my life a lot. And I'm very happy. And I know other people have. So now my life, and my day is much easier. But when you're working full time, which most people do and have to do, and continue to do, they arranged things whereby they might use vacation instead of for a period of time. Together, they might use it so that when there's a school meeting, or when there's a long weekend for they're in school, they can take off. And so you really just change things around and rearrange things as best you can. Because it is very active. I mean, it's hard to do this the first few years. I mean, you're so in love, Unknown Speaker 51:03 that you can do anything. But then afterwards. Unknown Speaker 51:09 And you don't want to do anything forever like this, because it is too stressful. And so you find a way to make it a little bit never. That's another what actually, now I have a laundry room in the basement. Yeah, I wanted to teach people Unknown Speaker 51:49 about sleep deprivation, yeah, well, I Unknown Speaker 51:51 was driving down here this morning. I am so tired. But it's a good tire. I mean, I don't know that it's ever going to go away. And I don't know, if it would have been different if I were, you know, working 18 hours a day, or 20 hours a day as a lawyer. I mean, I'm happy, you're being tired now. And when I was tired, I was tired then. But you know, two and a half year old is a very active child. And it is, you know, there takes a lot of energy. And when people say to me, how do you do it? I say, we mean how do I do it, I do it. Basically what happens is you rise to their level of energy because you have to, and it is it is so fulfilling and so rewarding. You don't sit back and say, you know, I can't do this, I just can't do this. I mean, that's some people do. And that's when they go see James and you know, things like that. And that's important too, because I think, at least at this stage of my life being older, I would recognize when I was going to reach my breaking point. And I think that's an advantage of being older and reaching this decision. I think you have you're a little more attuned with what, what your needs are, what your basic needs are. But my dad is very active. And as I said, I have the unfortunate enough to be home I have not my baby is not in daycare, although, and this would be true, if you were staying home, you've got to figure out a way to have a break. So that and I'm working part part time. So I do have help. I mean, I have a way to get out. It so happens that I have a sitter that comes to me three days a week, which works for me. And it was what I had to figure out for myself so that I could go to the office one day, a week or two days a week, so that I could run 1012 errands in one day without schlepping the baby in and out of the car seat. And granted, I live I don't live in Manhattan anymore. I live in, in Connecticut, which is a different scene. And it means a lot of in and out of cars. I can just take a stroll or you know, go from one store together to store the other store. I gotta shut the baby in and out in and out in and that's tough. And you know, she's almost 40 pounds now. I mean, we're not talking you know, when she was four pounds, five pounds, you know? Unknown Speaker 54:25 So, Unknown Speaker 54:26 but you know the days are, Unknown Speaker 54:28 are full. I have at the end of the day. I don't know where it went. I mean, people asked me, you know, I'm having trouble now because people ask me, what did you do? What did you do yesterday? Who remembers? I mean, I don't remember. I got through the day and that's a very good point. I felt like there are times when getting one thing done in a day is a real feat. Because you don't have time to worry about you know things that are important or not important to you. I mean if you get the laundry done, if you get dressed So, I mean, that's, that is a big deal. And it is important to recognize it as having been an achievement. So I mean, I can't say what I did yesterday, but I got here. Unknown Speaker 55:14 It's interesting because I thought I would, because this is what I heard, you really should justify that I said, I'm not gonna have any does, I have a severely disabled child and I have a woman there 12 hours a day taking care of I go to work, it's going to be no change, I connect. For 20 some odd years, I've always known that if I want to go out, I have to get a sitter. So it's part of who I have to stop doing something new. But there's something different about having a handicapped daughter, here and a three and a half year old or four year old, Unknown Speaker 55:47 who you Unknown Speaker 55:48 become very involved in my day to day, I could not be given the exception because this contract is valid on Saturday morning, and she loves it. And I did not want to miss it. And my friend was going to take her so I could be here got sick. So there was never accepted for that. And I'm taking a lot of care today, we kept over at 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, we kept home, I changed my dungarees to something a little more professional, panel wise, came over here. Today is the day of course schools specialist school. I'm going to farm day it's it's I don't want to be the only parent whose child is not at this festival film festival day. And I don't want her to be the only child. Monday morning, they've come to it. So when I leave here, I get in a cage and on my cell phone as the sitter who's at home, please get country code on Kuching will be downstairs and we will go for the last hour of the film festival and then we'll help clean up. So I apparently like to talk. And that's fine. But I don't resent any of them. It feels great. And if we can get it all done, we can all enjoy ourselves. And tomorrow, we're going to hang out house. downtime, Unknown Speaker 57:08 I guess. Yeah, what we're all saying is that it's pretty all consuming. And you know, one of the things you have to really think about is how you feel about giving up a lot of your own needs and putting your child's needs first, I was overjoyed to do that. I had been wanting to do that. And I was celebrating the spit up on my shirt. I mean, I was like so happy that I was a mother, I had at least that one of my dreams fulfilled if not all of them. And I think the the early stages were very difficult for me, I kept saying someday he'll be three, someday he'll be three. And sure enough, someday he was three. And then it seemed to get easier. Actually, each week it got easier. But three was a real turning point. And five was another real turning point. And the payoff when you get, I figured that I put a lot into those early years, I made a commitment to myself to really invest in those early years, thinking that the payoff come later that I would then not have him clinging to me forever needing the Forever dependent, you know, unmet needs. And indeed, my dream came true to the extreme. Because in the early years, at least for all your troubles in the toddler years, and the early school years, even in the mid school years, they adore you, they worship you so you're getting paid back for all this investment. You know, they think you're a goddess, my son said, I looked exactly like Snow White. 16 inches, to look up. But now I don't have to put much energy out at all. And I don't get a lot back. And that is you know what I get back and seeing him separate, thriving, functioning, living a life that he enjoys. And that's very satisfying. But, you know, I mean, I, I can't I will go on my rant here about what it's like to be the mother of a teenager, but it's an incredible experience. The opposite of the adoration is exactly what it's about. And you know, he's fine. I'm not saying he's a bad kid or his troubled kid. He does well in school, he has friends, he loves his wife. You know, it's just this is normal and I have to give up my source of satisfaction. From him. I worked hard to make it from more and more from my work which I always love, thank God. And by the way, I used to go to work to rest that was where I got my rest. It was the peaceful non chaotic civilized place. And I saw I get my assessment From my work from running the organization, thing, friends, you know, men, people in general family has become a different, closer to people who I never would have been close to before. So you know, you do, it's a trade off. But I think it's important to understand that there are so many phases and that each one of them is different. And not everybody is good in every phase. You know, it's my understanding that, you know, some people are really great with babies, some people are less great with babies, but they're better with another age. Unknown Speaker 1:00:34 And also there, there are faces, and some of you have been miserable days, the way you do now without a child. So you can either have a childhood, again, to be a parent or say, No, I'm going to have those bad days and not be. Unknown Speaker 1:00:54 Well, it's interesting, because I assumed that this was, oh, how my son feels about my being a single mother now that he's 16, I guess. I had assumed that his burning issue and his rebellion issue would be all about this, you know, I didn't have a father for him. And the worst thing he's ever said to me, was just a few weeks ago, he actually said, you know, what, I think is the worst part about not having grown up with a dad. And I was like, you know, here it comes, right. I said, what he said, I had a dad, I would have gotten into sports earlier. Unknown Speaker 1:01:40 And actually, the funny thing is, his dad was not the least bit interested in sports. So I don't know if that was true. But he would have gotten into sports, the actual person who was his father was not my dad. And I actually had a sort of a godfather, Father substitute role model kind of person for him for most of his life, who also isn't interested in sports. So it's very ironic. But that's, this is not his issue. His issue is, believe it or not, he's too thin. This is a big issue for him. He hates it. I mean, when we grew up, did we all have our issues? I didn't like my hair being curly. I wished I was short. So my understanding is that if you give the children the room to have their issue, whatever it is, and to work it out, and to understand how they feel, not argue with them will tell them that they shouldn't feel that way. But they'll find ways to work it out. So I guess the short answer to your question, it's not really been a burning issue that I'm aware of. Unknown Speaker 1:02:48 In terms of that question, what is it the issue of teaching? And how is it adopted? As a country countries? Is it an issue that, you know, what did you take my country or bring me to this? Unknown Speaker 1:03:13 Yeah, I think I'm probably the one that's had the most pertinent experience, because not only did I adopt a child from Guatemala, but I dumped a three and a half year old child history and other children's adopted at birth. That should, she came from a home where she was it sounds like she's not taking care of her well, sounds like she was out on the street begging, and she had four children. She was accused, she got the most money, and she would be food on the table. She was stealing, teach on Broadway, I mean, everybody would go back to the store and put it back and she taken the first guy because that's the way she lived. When she sees people in the parking lot, there's a lot of history. And I have seen a social worker therapist many times dealing with some of the sadness and guilt that she felt about leaving. Her siblings there, which got a year ago, was taken care of her siblings were adopted by different people. And we all got together last night in the States. And all three of them have the same issues worrying about the other one. And they also are one, the older sister was adopted by a single woman in Wisconsin, and one of the boys by a family in New Jersey and the baby, just the main the moms come in and they work and then that's the first time other stuff that somebody else in New Jersey, and she's had no need, or she has not talked about her children and doesn't want to write them into school. And the others, too, they all wanted to see. And they all like now happen. And they know where each child is very, very moving. And I kind of forced her to write the kind of their birthday, and they'll be there later. But they all needed to know that. When she first came to talk about their lobbyists and their good mom, and then as she became to feel comfortable with me, she started doing some stuff that I want to go back to, I should go back to it even it even, it just kind of works out. You let her talk about it. Feel comfortable? yourself. It'll always be there. And I I respect that we talked about it. And there's some issues about what religion she will be whether she would be Jewish like I am or she will be Catholic way, I assume, she might say because she remembers light candles? I think. So, but she many times talk about how lucky she is to, to be here. And she decided recently that that if she gets married, or if she just turned out to be somebody like me, that just has a lot of friends because she doesn't really see him as a sexual person on that dating at this point. So for her the other day, she said she thinks that that she would like to do is adopt several children Unknown Speaker 1:06:59 because all she American citizens, yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:07:03 That happens part of the adoption. Well in Guatemala is the time. One of the reasons I adopted there, I didn't have to go to that country and stuff. And it was partial adoption. But the citizenship is easy, because then you can get citizenship for your child once you bring them here, whether they are supported or whether they will need to get some. Yep, way I understood it. Oh, my goodness. I did part of the I didn't need to do the final adoption. Yes, we, we were down town with 75 other children. Before they do children together. I never felt so patriotic. I never realized what a wonderful cut, I was saying they were in tears and all the children came up and hands were shook. And then we all sang the national anthem. And she Unknown Speaker 1:08:01 I just wanted to start with the other part Unknown Speaker 1:08:03 of the question. All these things are so difficult. I mean, it's so not so difficult, but complicated and complex in terms of the adoption issue in terms of ethnicity issue in terms of trans trans racial, it's, these children will have many things to deal with. And like I said, how they deal with them and support who they are and what what their history is and import how you handle it. And then their society, you know, and all those things interact. So it's, it's too complex to really go into here, I have very strong feelings about the trans racial, and in terms of amines, very controversial. And it always has been privately you've been able, you can always adopt trans racial vote, people didn't know that. It was in the public arena where institutions and agencies have more of a say in state power. But privately people have done this over time. At any rate, I feel that it's, I can't do it justice now. But that it's very important if you decide that you are going to parent a child of a different race, that you'd really be prepared for that you know, what you're getting into, it's very serious, they have a lot of issues. And you have to really know where you stand, you have to examine your own racism. And it's an ongoing process to very visible so you have to be able to tolerate that, you know, people don't ever mistake you for biological family. And if they do, it's because they're not wearing their glasses. So it's a constant. And it's interesting, it's very challenging, and I'm very happy I did. But I evolved over time my ideas evolve, and you have to do a lot of reading and a lot of understanding and I think that you have to have things in your life that you can equate with things in new Never know what it's like to be black person per se. But I think that if you have situations or parallel experience or things in your life to draw upon, and so that you can have parity with this child's experience, even though it's not the same in that way Unknown Speaker 1:10:23 yeah, in terms of, you're gonna have it here, how do you bring their ethnicity and their background and who they are into your life? I think one thing when when you become an adoptive parents of a black child, as a white parent, you assume that child status, I mean, you don't gain status, you know? Basically, it's that you have to consider yourself an interracial family. It's not his status. And we are an interracial family. And a lot of the negative things that accrue to black people who start society also grew to you as a family, because you're not an all white family anymore. And so yes, there are many things you do and have to do and understand and help your child cope and respond to cultural heritage Unknown Speaker 1:11:21 you say you do feel it's like the support thing we were talking about earlier. Unknown Speaker 1:11:26 You find ways you find other parents you find support groups, similar, that that helped me work through some of those things. And you know, there are all kinds of organizations that will help you deal with the positive side of the trans racial issue. Because it is important Yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:11:46 it's a great note to end on, we have to give up our space. So we have to stop but I want to thank all of you for coming and all of us enjoyed you I think if you wanted the book, which is also on sale and the other place everybody Unknown Speaker 1:12:26 information I bought your book downstairs Unknown Speaker 1:12:30 the organization and about the newsletter and things that you might want still going strong and growing. came out and I belonged when I was in the process of you know, deciding what to do and all that Unknown Speaker 1:12:49 I'm sometimes a donor insemination and in the beginning stages of working on Unknown Speaker 1:12:55 a book books you know, there are books very, very useful resource to the leadership's Unknown Speaker 1:13:14 decision needs to be made. Unknown Speaker 1:13:17 What does this all mean? What will this Unknown Speaker 1:13:22 because I know that the robots are great and you go there now. Unknown Speaker 1:13:32 Exactly. But you see the opening up