Unknown Speaker  00:01
Did it was it was running it's both these numbers by the way, are published. So this is going to be the most important part of this presentation, although I think it sets the scene here, what we have to say next service sectors. Government has something called si si code standard Standard Industrial Classification Codes. And the service sectors, by their definition include personal services, which means beauty parlor is the kind of thing to people by personally, a business services, business consulting, printing shop, anything that is a service that a business buys, as opposed to a prep, auto repair services and garages, hotels and other lodging places. I don't know how that gets in there. But that's a service you have a category?

Unknown Speaker  01:11
You mean below those levels? Below? No, I cannot

Unknown Speaker  01:16
know. Well, you tell me Give me an example to make. explosive growth. And I'm telling you that, alright, during the service sector, that is a service sector as defined by the Census Bureau. So that's where they are. In those, those categories that I just mentioned, those five categories was where the plus plus another set, which they call services, finance, insurance, and real estate, that includes banking, credit insurance, businesses, security, businesses, money managers, real estate brokers, real estate agents, combined real estate and insurance between those, those two sets that I just gave our concentrated worth in 87. And I think the pattern still exists over 55% in those two. Now, I can't break it down, Break it down more, you need to go to more numbers of the code, but they don't give it that way. In any event, I suspect that probably those ratios hold in this room, if not going out even more. In New York, especially when the economy is much more heavily service based, probably the numbers are high. How many of you are going to be manufacturing? The next highest concentration by the ways in retail. So I suspect that some of you are thinking of that. But I would bet that if I ask a show of hands, the businesses that you're thinking about fall into this category, they say New York, certainly New York's economy is very, very heavily service. We export our services to other parts of this country. And so

Unknown Speaker  03:03
anyway, I just wanted to say that, in spite of what night a good the good picture that that draws, the problem is that our our firms

Unknown Speaker  03:16
are not as big and don't grow, the way they ought to the way there is potentially, we tend to for both good reasons and not stick with self employment. And don't even try to look beyond that. Or if we try, we run into very barriers, which I'm going to try to get into at the end of this. Self Employment isn't bad, by the way, self, what I don't have. And if you were scholars who challenged me in this, this is comparable numbers for male owned businesses. And that is not broken down. We have to do subtraction and all kinds of calculations. But we know that the patterns are not the same, that more of the companies that employ people are owned by men. And the ratios are very different. So what we want to talk about is how do we go into business successfully the way we want to, we want to be self employed because it gives us the kinds of flexibility and satisfaction in our lives that we need at various stages. And many, many women do very well self employed, achieve their goals and want to just continue to do that well, but those who don't want to who want to grow become more mainstream. Employer companies need to be able to do that too. So we're going to talk about the things you need to know and understand in order to do this right. And Marsha will provide that overview and then how someone did that. And what what she faced and what she addressed and how she solved the problems and steps and is to do what she wants to do as a business owner question After each of our presentations at the end, I'd like to at this time talk about barriers, opportunities, gender issues that are out there. So, Marsha, let me give you a little background on Marsha. Marsha came to a WVD. Around the same time I did about four years ago to be our Vice President for training and counseling. Her PhD is from Columbia in communications. And she had the privilege and luck to study to get that to do that work under Margaret Mead, one of the probably the last to do that Marsha does a book in there somewhere. Yes, and she has a very extensive background in education and business. She before she came to us, she was president of a very large nonprofit educational institution in charge of operations. What she doesn't put in here is that she was responsible for turning that institution around from a nonprofit double organization to one that made money. She was also the CEO of a major national women's organization with a membership of over 150,000, and a full time consultant for the American Management Association developing training strategies and concepts for them, and a faculty member of Kenny. So Marshall has academic, nonprofit and for profit experience and has really brought our education programs or training programs, to a point where we really are offering probably what I think is the best resource around for women entrepreneurs, but I'll let her talk about

Unknown Speaker  06:49
it really very nice to be back at Columbia speaking instead of being spoken to. Although it's been a long time. I'd like to begin with the story of a woman that I met when I first came to a web four years ago, I will just call her job. And Joan is, is a woman who had two children and was married. And at the time she came to a web D, which was about seven years ago. Her husband was an alcoholic, and had no visible means of employment. Her children were really mainly in for financial responsibility, because he had run up enormous bills. And she was fired from her job on Wall Street as an analyst for one of the major clerks. And she was very grateful woman and felt that she had the ability to start her own business, she felt that she had been successful. And actually she had been successful on Wall Street as an analyst. Being fired, sometimes known, though, has many reasons behind it. She felt that she could turn her expertise into her own business. And she had heard about a day. And she came to a web and she took an initial introductory course that we offer, which has 10 sessions, and is really the foundation for beginning of business. It's offered over 20 weeks, Joan enroll in that program. And while she was in the program, she met five women that she became very close to and took the course, she maintained her relationship with these women and she began to implement for ideas for her business. She set up a money management firm. And the first two years were living have. She said the only reason that she really ever continue with her business was that her children kept encouraging her on these five women that she met and they definitely did. And they all kept saying don't do it, stick to it. And she did even though she was taking an enormous class. She was ready at that point after two years to come back and take a course that we offer called managing your own business and that's a 26 session course meets every other week. And it lasts an entire year. And it really takes you through those issues that you need to know to grow your business. Whereas one introduced you to starting your business. The second course, then takes you on to grow your business. And Joan enrolled with her four or five friends from a web day from her starting business course. She took the course. And she began to apply some of these issues that she learned and she began to grow and things improved a little bit, although it wasn't easy. She was now in her third year, after a business that she kept plugging away. And one of the things that she learned was about PR, and how to use PR in growing your business. And she hired someone who was very reputable PR person. And she began to use this person. And little by little, when I first came to agent moody, about four years ago, she joined our chief executive roundtable, which is for women of grossed over a million dollars. And she became a part of that roundtable. It's limited to eight women, they meet with a mentor once a week for two years. And interestingly enough, all five of the women who were in her initial class within the chief executive roundtable. Now, that was really just the beginning. Because Joe today manages over $300 million. She's been written up in every major financial institution, paper barons, she's been a USA Today, she has been in the times, she has been a Business Week. She is truly

Unknown Speaker  11:51
a very successful and creative woman. And recently, we just got a mailing from her a letter about what's going on in the market today. I was very impressed with it, because it completed some of the PR efforts that she actually learned today, WD. And Joan will be the first person to tell you that a lot of her success is really dependent upon the fact that she took these courses and helped to learn those principles, which really guided her. She had the basic ability, she had the technical expertise. And we see many, many women who come to us who have that technical expertise, but they don't have the business skills. Nor by the way do men to graduate from wonderful schools have professional half the business expertise, I mean, even professionals, attorneys, doctors, dentists, chiropractors, come to a WVD to learn how to run a business, because all of those professionals are just as much a business as our manufacturing sweaters on second half. And you need to really think about them as a business, if you call him to make him successful. To Joan is a real inspiration. And I don't mean to say by telling that story, that in fact, every single person here has the opportunity to grow as rapidly and with as much success as Joan did. But I do think that if you are interested in starting your own business, and growing your own business, that there are steps that you can take to help ensure that you will avoid some of the pitfalls and that you will be moving in the right direction. And certainly, I'm very proud of what we do at a web day. And I think that it's a very good place without for profit. And our fees are very affordable. We offer programs in one on one business counseling. We offer programs in short term workshops and seminars as well as long term classes. What really makes us outstanding. For people like Patricia, we have a roster of 125 250 men and women who volunteer their time. They are all either entrepreneurs or professionals who work with entrepreneurs who come in and who give their time to the tune of just to give you an example of what we do in New York. We have we counsel 1000 women a year. We offer short term workshops In seminars to 500 women a year, and we offer training classes to another 400 women a year. So all of those are provided by women by Patricia, who can do this because they want to give back and because their expertise is valuable. I think if you are looking seriously at starting your own business, and I hope that this is not sort of old hat to those of you who are already in business, I would suggest that there are two key areas that you look at, first, your personal characteristics. And then of course, secondly, a reality check of the 10 key steps that you should look at in starting a business. I'd like to start with the personal characteristics, because I think that you should take a very long, hard, good look at yourself before you make this decision. Personally, my next move is to start my own business. But I've been taking a good long look at myself, because I want to make sure that I have the characteristics that are are needed to succeed. Unlike unlike going into corporate life, or even going into the not for profit world, starting your own business means that you need to have a very high need for achievement. Now, my birth, which is a firm that does research into human behavior that out of our out barbered, actually, David McClelland did some research into the three needs that make people work.

Unknown Speaker  17:06
The need for achievement, the need for affiliation and the need for influence. People, both men and women who go into corporate life and really succeed in that environment, generally have a very high need more influence. However, the converse is really true. For those who go who are very successful owning their own businesses, and they have a very high achievement. That is a tremendous motivating factor in their personality, you have to say to yourself, Why are these people very goal directed, who is driven, who is focused, who is willing, under any circumstances, to move themselves in that direction of the goal that they've set for themselves, because it really does take that kind of a person to be successful in owning your own business. There's so many roadblocks that you face, so many obstacles along the way, that you need to be very, very driven toward achieving. So that's the first characteristic, there's actually an assessment that can be given, I don't have it, we could write if you really wanted to look at it seriously, today to the clones of Warren, get a copy of that kind of, it's difficult to be too great. But I think you probably know yourself very well, and would recognize whether or not you are one of these people. Secondly, you really need to look at where you are in your life in terms of your own families. Many of you, I'm sure, have families who are very concerned about what you enjoy. And I don't mean that they are directing what you're doing, but rather that they're an integral part of your life. And they must be able to support and help you in this process. Because it is so demanding, and that's about it. I mean, we have seen honestly, the spouses will be able to sabotage what you're doing. And it's it's not done on a conscious basis. You know, they they probably aren't even aware that they're doing this, but it's like the woman who's always dying Are they and her boyfriend and stuff? Oh, you can bet that it's the same kind of thing. So why do you want to do this? Why are why are you knocking yourself out seems like a ridiculous thing to be doing, you need to be out earning money to support the band, you must take a good hard look at where you are in your family, if you're going to have your support. And

Unknown Speaker  20:32
thirdly,

Unknown Speaker  20:34
there is something called the locus of control. Are any of you aware, this behavioral characteristic, the locus of control is a concept which explains an individual's need to be the one in charge and to be responsible for their own behavior. And people who believe that they can control their own destiny, that they are responsible for what happens make the best entrepreneurs, because they are the ones who actually feel responsible for the outcomes of what they did, we can actually give test and score them. Here's an assessment test, which will show you where you are located on this locus of control how much you feel that you are in charge, and how much that you feel fake is. Most entrepreneurs do not do well in corporate environments. Because they're like, the bad child, they're always rebelling against the rules and regulations, they want to go do their own thing. They want to make their own decisions, they want to, they want to control their time, they want to create their own rules. And so what happens is they go work for corporation, you know, 10 years, 15 years, and women especially don't start their own business, for the most part, 235 different guys, I mean, the mostly, I would say, our demographics are 85% fall into that category. And the reason for that is they go they learn the technical expertise, they even submit themselves to this, this corporate environment, and then they say, I've had it, I'm going to be the one to set the rules. I don't want to live with the goals of the corporation. Now that I say the corporation corporate rules are so wonderful, but it it is something that they know about themselves. They are the ones who want to control and be responsible for the decision making for their time, and clearly with the amount of money that they're gonna make. And finally, the last thing that I would say to you to ask yourself before making this decision is what is your level of commitment to this process? Because being a business owner means that it is very time consuming, and that you must, in fact, be consumed almost, with running this business, you must really, really want to be successful. And

Unknown Speaker  23:46
are you willing to

Unknown Speaker  23:47
put that amount of time and if you're not, then I think it's something that you have to be those are the four personal characteristics that I urge you to look at first. If you get to the answer that you have these characteristics, then you're ready for the next 10 steps. Before I start going over these, I just want to say to you that I don't even though these are very simplified, I don't in any way mean to minimize them. They are just the initial issues that you should consider in starting our business. Our course that starts out or starting your business course, is 10 sessions and it covers these in Great, I'm going to give you a very brief rundown on on these concepts, just to make you aware of some of the things that you should be looking at before you go out. First and foremost is something called planning. And in fact, this week fortune came out with an article on self employment. And one of the key points that they make in this article is the necessity for planning. The fact that those businesses that really do plan ahead and know where they're going, are in fact, the ones that tend to be more successful. What Patricia Tala does for us at a WVD is she comes in, and she works with women and helping them to write their business plans. I'm not saying to you at the very first, when you're just beginning, that you need to have a fully developed business plan. But you need to have a plan, you need to think it out in your head, to make a list of every step you can take, when those steps will be completed. We know that people who verbalize what they're going to do or write it down, are more apt to actually carry it out, it is helpful to write down every single step that you will take this month, next month, and a year to get. At a certain point, you will need to write a business plan. You don't always say that writing that business plan is the initial step. Many of the most, many of the most successful businesses wait until they really need to write your business plan. She just gave a seminar last week, which was really wonderful. There were 12 women, and all of them were women who had been in business a minimum of two or three years, they were first writing their business plan, but they really knew their direction. Secondly, before you are 100% sure of what you're going to sell, whether it's a service or a product, you must know your marketplace, you've got to do market research. And of course, market research is very expensive. So that if you don't have a lot of money, you've got to do it yourself, you've got to pick up the phone yourself. If you have to stand on a street corner with a questionnaire, I mean, we've had to really do that actually stand outside a grocery stores beauty parlors call places and locations in other cities request information for businesses which are similar, do as much market research, what you don't want to do is to start a business that there is no need for you must make sure that there is a need an interest in your business. And what you're doing has something that will differentiate it from other businesses that will make it unique and special. To go out and create a need a product or a service is a very costly process, which which takes a lot of money in terms of advertising. And unless you are a very lucky person, I would suspect that you're not going to have that money.

Unknown Speaker  28:38
Once you know

Unknown Speaker  28:38
as much as you can from your market, then define your product or service. And I mean, write it down in two sentences. Can you tell me what you're selling? I would like to know, if I met you at a reception. And you wanted to tell me about what you were doing. Could you say it to me in two sentences. A lot of women who start service businesses especially find this difficult, I mean to sell a product. I sell wonderful crafty earrings that I designed myself. That's that's an easy thing to articulate. But some of the services are much more difficult. So I would encourage you to actually write down a maximum of two sentences describing your service. Fourth, fourthly, we need to know your competition. And we have little techniques for finding out about competition, sending away for information about similar services or products, calling out of town locations, sending in shoppers to find out about what other have similar services or products are charging for your product or service. What other similar services or products are presenting themselves? You must know, so that you are prepared to find a way that you can compete in the marketplace with the services and products. Then how are you going to sell your sales, your product, or your service, you must be clear about where you're going in terms of selling. I mean, selling is the lifeblood of your organization. Are you good at sales, as an entrepreneur just starting out, you must in fact, be the chief cook and bottle washer in every year. Yeah, marketing, sales, record keeping the legal issues business planning. Whereas before, if you worked in a corporation, there were divisions and people who come here and starting a business, those divisions are not there. And you must be able to assume the role of salesperson. And to be able to present the information about your product or service. One of the things that we do with the women in our course, is we ask them to make a sales presentation. And it's very interesting, because some of the most accomplished women have a great deal of difficulty actually selling your product or service actually presenting, we tried to get them to the point where they can do it. Not only do you know, need to know step by step how you plan to go out and reach the public for your product. But you must be able initially to actually sell it. Next, one of the things that aw Ed encourages women to do is to get professional help. That is to hire a good accountant and a good attorney. A lot of women don't want to waste the money on an accountant or an attorney because they think they can do it themselves. But especially in New York, we have many complicated rules and regulations, about filings that we need to make. We need to know the appropriate steps to take to protect ourselves in terms of liability insurance, in terms of taxation, sometimes the way you've set the company up and determine the kinds of taxes when you pay them. It is absolutely key. And we do not feel that you can really do it all on your own. It's a good investment, higher,

Unknown Speaker  33:17
higher. Right. The next step, create the legal entity. I put this much later in the outline for a very good reason. And that reason is that we sometimes create the legal entity before it's necessary to do so. And we end up being required to pay certain taxes. And so I encourage you to turn a cop to your attorney, before you create the legal entity. Many women come to a web, they're already incorporated. And it's not necessarily the right step. To begin, we suggest that you wait until it's really an appropriate time in the kind of business you each business is different. And it requires a decision based on the kind of business and the kind of people that you're selling. Now, here comes the kicker and that is calculating your financial needs. I say reality check because we can have the best product, the best ideas, the best sales strategy, the most well developed planning process. But in fact, if we don't have the money to implement it, we're making we're not able to really start a business. And I encourage you to think about this As a two to three year process, I encourage you to list every single expense that this business will incur, incur in the next three years to calculate what those expenses are, and then to estimate what you think the revenue is for each of those three years. Now, the the most frequent complaint that we have at AW, Ed, from the women who take the courses is that how can I calculate revenue when I really have no idea? How many people in sales to what, where I'm going to sell it how much I'm going to charge you, then you can't go any further. You need to have some idea of how many people you can sell not only weekly, monthly. And you need to be pretty sure, in a conservative way. Not in a dreamers way, you've got to know, what do you think you can generate each of three years? And then you have to look at the discrepancy between your expenses and your revenue? And where are you going to get the money? And are you paying? How are you going to generate the money for themselves? Aw, Edie for startup businesses, we usually advise women that there are three apps, your other sources of startup money, friends, family, and your personal whatever, you've been lucky enough. If you have some friends, if you have family, or if you have some money that you can draw that you set aside, then that may be your resource to go here to start your business. You're not even talking that you yourself may not be generating revenue income, you may have left your own position. It's a difficult place to be, because a lot of the women come to take the course. And they know they're going to have to wait 234 years before they start the business. We've had recently some follow up surveys of women who took courses in 1986 to 1988, who have just recently started their business. So it may take you much longer than you anticipate. But it is a very important thing to be realistic about the amount of money that you need to run the business. And I'm not minimizing the fact that you need to live on. Now some women of course, combined both part time working and running your business. If you can do that, that's a possible option. If you have the money set aside for your business, part time kind of employment, that's possible. Okay, last two points. One of the,

Unknown Speaker  38:21
the absolute, I guess, interesting or not interesting. But key characteristics that come out at a web about most women and I don't have to tell you is that so many women are unsure of themselves in the business world, and they have a lot more anxiety about succeeding than they need to. Because they, they are so bright, so capable, so competent, so many of them are so unsure of themselves. And one aspect, of course, about our courses that women have pointed to in focus groups is that the support of other women encouraging them and urging them to achieve success like Joan is very, very key and essential to their growth as a business owner. You must attack your anxieties in the sense that your messages, move ahead.

Unknown Speaker  39:35
Keep reassuring yourself.

Unknown Speaker  39:37
I think that if you're a confident person and you have a commitment to this, then you have to keep that anxiety level.

Unknown Speaker  39:50
You support resistance

Unknown Speaker  39:51
networking is your family. Anyone can can reinforce your strength. And finally, last not least, is that I encourage you to keep the fire in your heart. Because unless you are really motivated, and you run into these obstacles, it can be very disheartening. So no matter what you do, just keep believing. And we can be yours anymore before we go on to Patricia, does anyone want to ask Marsha question?

Unknown Speaker  40:42
Your seminars?

Unknown Speaker  40:45
Well, each month, we offer three workshops. And they vary in nature. I mean, in terms of except, every month, we offer one on business planning, usually. And they're three hours, they're limited to about 10 people, we want to make those very personal. We also have a brown bag lunch, once a month, which is great, which is called Meet the expert. And it's on all different kinds of issues. Then we have business counseling, you can call and tell us what you need help with. And we will match you with the appropriate counselor. We will set up an actual appointment that's convenient for both of you. And then of course, our courses. Our next one begins, it's listed our most current I think it's June 19. That's for women who are just starting out. And then there's one called managing your own business. June 9 are starting your own business and June 14 for managing your own business. And if you don't have a Coast Guard, let me know. Fees. Did you say fees? Okay, all right, good. Also,

Unknown Speaker  42:08
if you would like

Unknown Speaker  42:09
to be on our mailing list, we'll send you one of these postcards. So give me your card. And I'll put you

Unknown Speaker  42:15
on much as I have an agenda

Unknown Speaker  42:33
to this year.

Unknown Speaker  42:45
More work I have, the more successful we are all here in the back of my head. But

Unknown Speaker  42:56
let me just ask you a question. Is it time to add a part time person we do find by the way that women are very uncomfortable about adding. And in order to grow something, you'd have to think that you're going to add every way to store it is to add I think also it's very isolating working as a working solo. And I think that one of the satisfactions that the women who've come to a WD find is sharing with other women in your life. And that helps to motivate it is very motivating. But I will tell you just sounds like what you said to me would you keep getting all this work you can't implement your plan. Sounds like your business is growing and it really might be time to consider adding support to help so that I forgot to tell you it's done. It was over I think you know they've got a divorce. Long gone probably the best thing that ever happened.

Unknown Speaker  44:24
And also Yes, and

Unknown Speaker  44:29
you know that's a good question. Never asked her that

Unknown Speaker  44:34
is a beautiful office and a beautiful downtown I guess I can

Unknown Speaker  44:44
only speak from personal reasons why I be able to pursue creative things on my own and make those decisions So I'm starting to feel that their business seems like it has absolutely nothing to do with my profession. And the problem with my profession is that no one even knows how to, you know, and so so the we tried to pretend that that by by creating a service created for creating our own Martin business that we're going forward, and we can concentrate on the six sides, but it seems like

Unknown Speaker  45:45
a lot of I know, I know. But it's, first of all, what kind of business are you? Okay? This, as I said, it's a reality. And as much as you want to create this business, to be creative, and I understand that

Unknown Speaker  46:08
I tell my own son,

Unknown Speaker  46:09
you have to learn those business skills to make it successful. At the point when the business does become successful, you can have employees who can help you with the financial or you could help you market. But you won't get to that. Unless you take an interest in the business of scale. But you're no different from any of the men, or the women who come to Aw, Ed, who are professionals. We have one attorney, who was with SCAD. And she left she hated the corporate life. She was so why this woman after a year and a half is doing so beautifully. I mean, she took the ball and she ran with it, she joined every network, she marketed and she has a very successful business. She didn't really want to do it. But she knew to succeed that she had

Unknown Speaker  47:20
a lot of time and pretty much money on something like showing other people

Unknown Speaker  47:26
work. Right. And so

Unknown Speaker  47:28
what's happening now I see in the garbage. We are so excited about having work and getting our portfolio together that we you don't have any time to have a strategy. We have to do that first. Because we have to market? Yes. Very difficult.

Unknown Speaker  47:54
It's very difficult. I mean, I confirm that. But you know, one of the things that we offer is the fact that our classes meet, so that you can set aside but it's probably the most valuable time that you're going to invest. Because it will help direct you. As far as doing things with no income from them. I'm going to tell you the story. You know, we have an annual conference, and we attract about 2000 women each day. So we got a call from a woman who offered to do the plants for us with the potted shed, I think. And she did these most wonderful plans for both banks. And they weren't going to Well, I spoke to her after the conference because I wanted to order something. She told me she's never gotten so much business, and she was approached by an investor. So you never know those three things are such a good calling for in the beginning. Don't ever say to yourself, you know, your, if you can afford it, do it. If you're going to reap the rewards. What can I think? Why don't we hold I want to get Patricia on because she I think a lot of some of what she's gonna say, well, we'll answer some of these questions. And then, but hold your questions, and we'll we'll come back to them at the end. I just want to say one thing is that what you addressed is the r&d phase of your business. And if you think about it in terms of a manufacturing company, there is a period of time when inventory has to be invested in facilities have to be created. And all you're doing is like investing money. You're not making it and one of the things we teach, Tricia teaches is how to project what has to go into your the development of your business, what your breakeven point is, when you're going to start making money on all of this money To invest in what you're talking about is a perfectly necessary little normal stage of any business, you don't start making money on the first day, you have to put money in, invest, build your business, your inventory, which is your intellectual inventory. And then you'll start making money. But those are the kinds of things you learn in a class that says in a course that teaches you how to take what you do and who you are, and what you want to sell, and put it into a commercial framework so that it becomes a business. But we have a great example of someone who did just that I think faced exactly the issues that you're thinking about that you want to ask about. And we thought it would really be the best illustration and the best instruction to have someone who's done it has been through it, come and tell you how she did it. And how she progressed. Patricia is the president and founder of a business called PW advisory. She does, she has offers an array of services, professional services

Unknown Speaker  51:06
for women and men.

Unknown Speaker  51:10
In business that helps them actually do the things that we teach have to be done in order to vote, start and carry your business forward to to wherever your strategy is going to take it. She does market and industry research and evaluation, financial analysis and evaluation, financial projections, evaluation of alternative sources of clients and when to get more sophisticated, you're going to need to know and you can't possibly know if you're architects or if you're a any other professional if you have a beauty parlor or gourmet food, Chopper, anything and all the various kinds of support that that businesses to move along. Before that she came out of the environment that so many of us are leaving, she was a vice president as a chemical banking, manage the portfolio of over a billion dollars of corporate money, Monica, and did research and analysis on a variety of industries and markets for chemical. I advise clients on general business issues, and I guess I'm

Unknown Speaker  52:22
gonna make anybody rich doing that.

Unknown Speaker  52:25
control your own destiny in her life. So she has a great story to tell and tell it and then you can ask her all kinds of questions, but I'm watching

Unknown Speaker  52:36
Patricia. I'm going to tell my story from a highly personal standpoint. Only a couple of years ago, I was thinking of starting a business. And I was a corporate person. I always wanted to start my own business. I never knew exactly when I would ever have the opportunity but didn't come out. And I did. So I went through what you may be going through now or will be going through only very recently. I'm a mother and entrepreneur. And I'm driven to do both. Most of us do become mothers at some time. And entrepreneurship is becoming an alternative for women who have families who have to somehow juggle between career and home life. And that's what I've been doing for the past 10 years, is struggling to figure out how to balance my life, how to come up with a solution that works for me. In the mid to late 80s I was what we used to call a corporate Superwoman, working at the bank until hours running home to children. In the early 90s, I tried the full time mother routine, which didn't last very long, I became very frustrated and decided to pursue my dream of becoming a business owner. And I've been running two businesses now for two years, the one that Roz mentioned, I also started a business with my husband, brother in law and construction management. That's really their business. Maybe they became one of my clients and thing evolved and now we're bidding on major projects in New York City. And I think I've applied some of my skills that I've learned in my background to this construction management, and it's moving along. So I think I found a solution for my life at this point. I have two children. I work all hours but the hours are mine. You might see me sitting there at two o'clock in the morning writing a proposal, but I'm there in the afternoon when they come home from school. But let's face it, there is no perfect solution for women. And that's one thing that I have realized In the 80s, we learn through trial and error that career and motherhood are not mutually exclusive. And that we will always be torn in various directions. In the 90s, we're learning to accept the fact that we will always be torn and that we just have to do the best we can with every activity. And we are particularly good, we women, we're very good at bending, spreading ourselves spin, juggling, compromising, and we still get the job done to the best of our ability. And it's beginning to turn out that we're pretty good at running or managing a business. People are beginning to talk about the female style of management. Now that we have some history of running businesses. My story is not unusual for my generation. I grew up in the 70s. I went to college and graduate school I did well, I never, I didn't really think very seriously about marriage and children at that time, I went into the world of high finance and banking. And at that time, in my early 20s, I felt like one of the troops just like everybody else who were a bunch of number crunchers that were staying up until all hours of the night doing fields, and gender didn't really enter into it. In the mid 80s, I got married, and I had a child. And things changed. My focus widened. I wasn't just working, I was worried about nannies train schedules, and sneaking out of the office to get home on time. My focus changed and I had a boss who told me several times that his wife was bright. She was at home. So what was my

Unknown Speaker  56:57
that wasn't an option for me. I proposed to the bank to set up an in house childcare center. At that time, I thought it would make sense for us women, it would make sense for the bank. And I had all sorts of good reasons why the bank would actually benefit that was ignored, politely. Nowadays, I don't know whether you notice. But most of the Wall Street firms have in house childcare centers, and they're competing on which, which one is the nicest submit the most convenient, etc. So I was a little ahead of my time. And when the second child arrived, it really became a whole new ballgame. And I don't think things have changed that much since then. But I was definitely no longer one of the troops. There were several of us who were all the mothers were all in middle management. We're all in our early 30s. And we were dubbed the mothers. And because there were so many of us, we did have a little bit of clout, which we hadn't had before. We started asking for four day workweeks and flex time and, and job sharing one point I just shared a job with another woman we used to meet once a week, trade notes trade desks. This is what we call the mommy tracker. At that time, we created our own mommy tracker, which I joined reluctantly, because I knew that Jordan going into the mommy track with me. But I would just be basically sitting in the same spot. And for an indefinite period. And probably sooner or later, I'd be forgotten. I was a little a rising star. And suddenly I just be forgotten. But I didn't know what else to do. I really could not keep up with the challenges of working until midnight, like all the other guys that I knew. And I was discouraged. Anyway, I looked around, I looked up and I hardly saw any any senior women at all, most of the senior management in the banking world are still men. So I knew that even if I work very, very hard that I would probably the chances were slim that I would actually reach senior management. And most of the highly capable women I knew have dropped out at some point or another, either to start their own businesses or just they just gave up. They were fed up, they went home. And what saved me was Paris. My husband was transferred there for 18 years and what was going to say no, go to Paris. I jumped at the chance and I thought I'll just quit while I'm ahead. Things are going really well at the bank. I think I'll just end it right here. So I left the bank, and I spent about six months unwinding. And then I really went through a tough period because I was really connected to the core For the firemen, it gave me the pat on my back. It was a where I got my stroking. And suddenly there was no feedback, no stroking. And I, I went through a difficult period trying to regain some kind of self image that lasted for about a year while we were there, it was a tough time. And when I came back, I wasn't sure what I was going to do. But I somehow I resolved that I wasn't going to go back into the banking world. So I played full time housewife for some time. But always in the back of my mind knew that I had to do something. After years of managing full agenda meetings and projects and deals. I just had a compulsive urge to accomplish something every day. And it got to be I realized that I just could not enjoy a day of errands I just, I just couldn't do it. And that's just me. I mean, a lot of women enjoy it. And that's fine. But I, I really felt like I lacked a sense of mission, I didn't feel that I had any direction. And I needed one. So I felt I felt discouraged for a short period. But in the middle of the night, one night in late January, I guess 9091 I woke up in the middle of the night and realized, why don't I do what I've always wanted to do to start a business has always been in the back of my mind. I had many, many ideas in the past. And somehow I never follow through on them. And I decided this is my chance. Here I am, I'm out of the corporate fold.

Unknown Speaker  1:01:41
It'll be difficult to go back in and I don't really necessarily want to. And we're we're lucky that my husband can cover the bills for for a certain amount of time. And that's, that's, that was a real luxury to be able to say, Okay, I'm going to devote all my time now to do doing research. So I started on a mission to learn what it is that I'm supposed to be doing in terms of business. And I, I spent a lot of time in library works, I went to a real self search. And that's one thing that all of you should do if you're going to start businesses, but really think very realistically about what are your talents, abilities, skills, desires? What are your priorities and be very, very honest with yourself. Because you're gonna see deficiencies, if you're a highly talented architect, that doesn't mean that you're gonna be a great accountant. And there's no reason for you to be one of but you have to recognize what are the what are the important skills that you need? And what are your deficiencies? And where can you get the training? To to get trained somewhere like an AW, Ed? or, or? Or should you just hire someone an expert to do the work for you? So I went through that I went through a period where I had to look at myself and say, These are my skills. And I'm not going to start over? I'm not going to start school at this late hour. And what are my skills? What was I doing as a banker, I was advising, I was listening, I was recommending, I thought well, why don't I do something related to what I was doing as a banker except not lend money, obviously, instead of recreating the wheel and going back to school to become a architect or whatever, which didn't cross my mind at one point. So you have to go through the self assessment period and be very realistic and homeless, which is, which is what I did. And I decided I'm not going to stray away from what I know, let me just play on on my strengths. And then the next step was to do my homework. And I spent a lot of time in the library, researching various ideas. If you do yourself, sir, itself, analysis, and you come up with a profile of yourself, and you realize that there are certain areas that you're strong in, or certain areas that you love better than others. And that's where you should concentrate your efforts on. Then you can go to the library, and do some research on three or four ideas, or how many however many ideas you have, whatever it may be, I had two or three ideas that I wanted to research in depth, which I did. I spent a lot of time doing a lot of reading. And I also read some really great books and there's so many books out there on on being an entrepreneur, I read a lot of these books, and it really made me start feeling like I'm not the only one the only crazy one around are many people out there. And there's a rhyme and a reason. There's a way to do this. There's a method to the madness of starting a business.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:41
So I did the I did my research and that will be to your next step. Really do your homework and be very, very honest with yourself as to your findings. And I want to give you go out there and realize that your idea no one's going to really evolve for for whatever reason. Let's face up to it. If, or if there is a deficiency in your overall concept, you have to really think it through a little more, do your homework, because it'll come to haunt you later. If you don't, if you don't analyze your market or your customer, you don't know what your customer really is, it's going to come to haunt you later, two years from now, you're going to realize that your business is not going as well as it should, or it's not going at all. So I did all that research, and then I started my business. And it was, it was, it was not that it wasn't easy at first, because I wasn't used to working alone. I set up an office at home, and I was alone a lot. But what has really encouraged me is the fact that there are a lot of women out there who have started businesses. And there are they are networking and helping them not just networking, but they're really helping each other out. And you see that everywhere. I mean, I have several women, business owner colleagues now that I've met through various organizations, including a WD, that we really help each other, always providing contacts and suggestions and leaves and We barter business, one will do something for me, and I'll do something else for her. And so we we, we exchange skills, we combine with joint venture, we do all sorts of things, women are increasingly helping each other. And that's very, very encouraging. You go to, like a conference like APA web ed conference, and women are energized. And you're energized by each other's enthusiasm, and determination. And so you, if you start a business, you're not going to be alone. There are a lot of us out there. And we are trading secrets we are working together. And that's a very, very nice thing to say. And I I was surprised to find it and find out that that's the way it is. And it's only getting better. Now that there are pitfalls of starting with business. Building a business is not an overnight phenomenon. It takes a lot of drive, self discipline, guts, determination, you have to be willing to make mistakes, and admit that you made the mistakes and learn from them. It's not that easy to do. And if you have children, you still have a childcare problem. No matter what you do, whether you're working for someone else or for yourself, there's some issues that are still problems for us, no matter what we're doing. And there are obstacles. I'm working long hours, and I have to work hard to gain credibility, especially I hate to say it but especially among male clients. For some reason my business has evolved towards women, not because I want it that way to sort of sort of happen because women, women are the first ones to recognize their weaknesses or to to ask for help with problems, and, and questions. And so there I am working towards building more credibility with my male clients. But I can choose my hours and I can choose my clients. And I'm exhilarated by what I'm doing, and, and it's worth all the aggravation.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:32
Well, I'm a consultant to small businesses. So I help small businesses to do what some of you are struggling doing right now, which is how do I plan my life when I have so many things on my plate right now? And it really, it's real, there's a method to it. Now I will sit down with a client and go over what is a game plan for the next six months for the next three years? Where are we going? Where are we heading. And a lot of times, new directions will will really will somehow we will be able to see a new direction. While we're, you know, while we're figuring it out. And so I do that for startups all the way up to companies that have been around for 30 years and just don't know whether they should now sell like a family run business that is now confused as to whether he should sell his business or pass it on or grow it to be a multimillion dollar company which you never succeed in doing. It's an example of a client. The issues are always the same. Whether it's someone who's just starting to think about it to someone who has been in the business for 30 years and has is now at a crossroads. So that's what I

Unknown Speaker  1:09:51
do. You employ people.

Unknown Speaker  1:09:54
Yes. What I do is I have a network of women who are all either expats First X marketing people X research people and all these women who are highly qualified, and who have had great careers, who want to do something part time. And to get paid well, but they'll work for let's say, they'll do a marketing plan for clients that will take 40 hours to do. So there are several women like that, that I know even ex colleagues of mine that I will

Unknown Speaker  1:10:26
use. Conference Well, strategic planning session for a major institution that's involved in helping women in business around the world, but not the United States yet. And they were just developing strategies to do that. But I learned a term for the company conference, call a virtual, somebody kept using that word. And I kept saying, what is that? What does that mean? And the first woman we're used to said, I really don't know. So someone came up to me afterwards and explained that that's, it's a term of art, you can't figure it out from the words themselves. But that's a virtual company. That, in fact, that is the way that many women, the women that you use are local entrepreneurs, themselves. And so much times we get to get clients will say we call on you. So that's a way that a lot of women find to make their businesses kind of fit the profile contours of their lives. So that's, that's kind of a new way of doing business. Now, I want to take questions about anything, the three of us have said or whatever, yes.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:55
Our conference, while we do this once a year is the biggest event we do we have 1000s of women come and I tell you, I'm gonna get to it, because you got quite a bit strategic, or it's I'm not free to say it's not it's not it's I was just asked to be kind of their Think Tank too. But they only they deal with low income communities and low income women around the world in there. Anyway, does anyone have any questions of me Marsha or Patricia? I would have to do Yes.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:43
Sir. Stores? Well,

Unknown Speaker  1:13:13
clearly, if you have, you can start in in one or two ways, you can have the kind of story you want. And try to find the best location for that particular neighborhood service or a local, a local company that needs a local

Unknown Speaker  1:13:29
market, or you want to do you

Unknown Speaker  1:13:32
have a neighborhood you want to be in, then you can try to figure out what the needs are.

Unknown Speaker  1:13:40
Most of those businesses arise out of

Unknown Speaker  1:13:42
the need to be seen and carefully

Unknown Speaker  1:13:43
understood needs as a community. I mean, New York is

Unknown Speaker  1:13:47
wonderful for that we've

Unknown Speaker  1:13:48
had immigrant communities forever.

Unknown Speaker  1:13:50
And the businesses in those communities have served there. They're there, they're on me. So that's a that's a fairly direct kind of market research. I guess. First here, and then back to history. Have you traveled from

Unknown Speaker  1:14:15
the beginning?

Unknown Speaker  1:14:20
Or can you start doing that?

Unknown Speaker  1:14:22
That's a good question. That's always asked of us by a number of people. As you know if anyone here as a scholar does any research for their business research is very, very labor intensive and very expensive. We are a nonprofit. We're supported by corporate and foundation grants as well as some government work. So we have never been funded to do the kind of follow up that is kind of out of it's somewhat out of the academic community we'd love to do. That being said we do have non scientific but certainly illustrative follow up so that we have been able to track Those who those who will respond to us early on in a WDS. Life in the early 80s, they did get money to do a study. We were using those response those responses up until a few years ago. But based on those passwords, what are our programs people do, we do know that some large percentage of the women who take our courses, find them helpful and useful. And we get feedback from them. By the way, we do evaluations of every class and every instructor of every Chancellor. And many of the women who do go forward with their plans do achieve some, some success in 90% of those who answered once you're done sure don't have such good things to say. But still, it's very important for us to know they extend the sales, extend the profits, they move forward and in their in their strategic parts. So it's enough for us to keep going. We are very market sensitive nonprofits have to be we're always trying to be aware of the changing needs of our clients so that we can be ahead of them by developing programs to meet those needs and very vocal in telling them what they are, which we love. Doing. It very

Unknown Speaker  1:16:31
much. belts were very high. We were on the phone. We nailed it first. We really want to,

Unknown Speaker  1:16:51
we have offices in Los Angeles. Washington, Stamford, Connecticut, Long Beach, California. And the results are,

Unknown Speaker  1:17:00
are pretty much

Unknown Speaker  1:17:01
uniform. Across the board,

Unknown Speaker  1:17:03
we had a question of,

Unknown Speaker  1:17:09
I guess I'm interested in finding out the clients, I want to serve. You know, I'm sort of interested in the community trying to contact these people, and guess

Unknown Speaker  1:17:35
what you're doing just fine. We don't even if we had a lot of work, but it would certainly not be in that subject. We do have some business resources. But what you need to Yeah, I do need to be certain, you need to come in and talk to a counselor in your field, who can tell you how to how to access where those sources are and how to get access. And that's the kind of thing to do for individual entrepreneurs will also answer your question about this business development phase. What's involved? What can you expect? How far do you have to go? How long is it going to take? 123? Okay, thanks. You want if you're interested in starting a business, individual counseling and market hasn't been triaged. Yet, we have a program called The Art of marketing your art diploma that was the other it's still the principles

Unknown Speaker  1:18:45
Oh, absolutely. Where was it?

Unknown Speaker  1:18:49
To the practical question. As I was listening to this tremendous explosion of yourself in a way obviously Corporation not just a personality

Unknown Speaker  1:19:08
because of things like

Unknown Speaker  1:19:11
gender barriers.

Unknown Speaker  1:19:15
And so this lifestyle is crazy.

Unknown Speaker  1:19:18
On the other hand, I'm just wondering what you thought about

Unknown Speaker  1:19:22
the longer view here you have all these

Unknown Speaker  1:19:24
towns that have dropping out

Unknown Speaker  1:19:28
mostly to Glasgow and you're not fighting that battle

Unknown Speaker  1:19:32
anymore. Very nice white business successful. I'm not knocking it I just wanted I just wondered what you thought of it in terms of the general social changes women in power

Unknown Speaker  1:19:55
when you can eat yesterday, I'm not I'm not. I'm not sure what you mean. But if you mean, if you think that this is, are we being sidetracked into little enterprises that are kind of removing us from the mainstream economy? That's

Unknown Speaker  1:20:08
true. And I just wanted to throw out that

Unknown Speaker  1:20:11
I'm Westminster's an ex corporate person.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:14
And I think we are glad Sure.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:17
I understand. The reality is everybody male and female has to deal with is that not as much the year of traditional distance? There is no recourse.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:44
Or even not to to employment at all, to any student.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:50
But that's a whole different subject.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:53
I am Yes, because I don't leave because I abandoned the corporate power. So I left that frustration in their mind, respond to the business standpoint.

Unknown Speaker  1:21:12
But in terms of it being and then we'll get to this question in terms of getting moving us beside tracking. That's why we say that any woman who does start out on this track needs to be sure that she can carry the business to exploit its economic and financial potential by knowing how to do it, by knowing how to get the resources by knowing how to become and stay in the mainstream of the economy. If she wants to it that, you know, for instance, you're busy, I don't know what your businesses, but you say that you're not ready to hire employees, I don't know that that's true, you may not want to, you may be undercapitalized, you may need more money to hire employees, but most men would not stop at that. They would say, I want to grow, I need more capitalization. And this is what I need to do. And we don't want women to start. If that's where you want to go, you may be sidetracking yourself by saying well, I want you know, I don't know what your business is, or whether you want to take it any further. Yet. It's not like every woman in

Unknown Speaker  1:22:21
the world. I know

Unknown Speaker  1:22:22
plenty of women who are very, very smart right now it takes a certain kind of personality, whether you're that kind of person or not. Many women I know that not think of doing and they're or they're doing well, or they are they're just struggling to see in the corporate world.

Unknown Speaker  1:22:46
When we started our classes in the evening, at a web, we always asked women to talk about their dreams. And it's very interesting to hear what they said, because many of them, for many of them, it's really a lifestyle. And, as Patricia has pointed out, I think very well. Sometimes you make those decisions not to be sidetracked, but to satisfy your own personal needs. And we see that we encourage the women to dream big dreams, but many of them don't work. And this is their solution, or they are big but that bigness is not necessarily the business part of their their life and other things they want to do as well. You I'm sorry, you had a question? On their skills how realistic I mean, I've been thinking about translations as far as but they're quite

Unknown Speaker  1:24:13
how? Well, first, as Marsha said, our big two in recognition of that our courses are always in the evening, our programs. We have a few daytime things but most of our programs are in the evening. And it is now realistic, it happens. We have 400 exam well 400 women in our training programs a year. Some of them learn, by the way that they aren't ready to go ahead. But let's say you have the forehand with 300 examples of women who do what you say you want to do. So that's a demonstration of the realism of it, then then that's your answer. But you can't. If you're an entrepreneur, and entrepreneur does not recognize barriers, I mean, we try to in fact, it's usually the other way around. We try to say now wait a minute, here's the real world and are you checking with them real world? But don't set up barriers for yourself? Don't Don't before you before you know that they're real.

Unknown Speaker  1:25:26
Boring? Because

Unknown Speaker  1:25:33
I think I think about for example

Unknown Speaker  1:25:41
actually started this business,

Unknown Speaker  1:25:43
canceled classes.

Unknown Speaker  1:25:47
Could I just ask you, what kinds of courses? Are you thinking about taking?

Unknown Speaker  1:25:53
Your degree,

Unknown Speaker  1:25:55
their language?

Unknown Speaker  1:26:02
And I mean, do you have current plans to sort of business? imminent? Okay. I think it's clear that you have to be realistic, but also think that you cannot stop learning. Even I mean, even when you're at a point of starting your own business, there is the need isn't going to grow to make it lifetime. And I think the people who really continue to develop, set aside that time in your business, that it is a necessity, that they give that time to developing themselves. That's why they go to Aw, Ed. That's why they take other seminars, that's why they take language. Having said that, I will just also say to you, because you want to start translation business, you don't have to know all the languages,

Unknown Speaker  1:27:03
you can hire people. I mean, we know we've been working

Unknown Speaker  1:27:08
with a very interesting

Unknown Speaker  1:27:09
woman in Japan, who's a newscaster, and she's been bringing women to us to have a Japanese to help train. And, and she has 400, she does translations. And she has 400 consultants working in Japan. So so the answer to that, in short, I'm actually coming back is ask questions, and we can help you to some of our programs and services. The other question 123. It was

Unknown Speaker  1:27:51
It seems that a lot of this has to do with knowing your marketplace but knowing. Wonderfully way to develop. My example is you have high end residential clients, I have no interest in doing this kind of work, but it is providing us we're providing you with a portfolio. That marketplace is something that's accessible. It's how to then translate that into another market.

Unknown Speaker  1:28:27
It's also very personal priorities. You have to decide whether you want to translate what you want to run the translation. You want to do this, I would love to sit there. That's a different story. All the terminology. Right. But if you're going to run a translation operation

Unknown Speaker  1:28:56
Okay, the next question was posed to you.

Unknown Speaker  1:28:59
I just got a question is about you mentioned that you

Unknown Speaker  1:29:03
have it Have

Unknown Speaker  1:29:05
you had anything I work

Unknown Speaker  1:29:09
at night,

Unknown Speaker  1:29:10
it seems like we

Unknown Speaker  1:29:13
always a crime, every court that are wanting to know was over and

Unknown Speaker  1:29:18
we do we do and our counseling is awkward at times. It's convenient for you. We do have our seminars and short courses during the day. So we're going to start a day time course on starting your business in July. So give us a call. And we're in Midtown, right by Grand Central really in a very safe, accessible, easy to get to locations. So if you ever get people from all over the region,

Unknown Speaker  1:29:55
who was number three

Unknown Speaker  1:29:57
was free and then your morning For

Unknown Speaker  1:30:01
years and independent contractors, I decided this would be a naval officer to self medicate. There are several options out there

Unknown Speaker  1:30:15
there is that

Unknown Speaker  1:30:17
is very good. Over there, it splits the figures, whenever they choose to make it. I don't do anything about these types of companies, when I did my research because I want to own my own business plan. And what I do at low carb, this is cause possible they go out. But I do have like their plan seven years, a year ago, recently, last week, I had, I had to have the free medical freedom. So you know, 30 days keep all this theory that supposedly out there in the military. We know that downsizing and SRP folks in the military. But I am I mean, I'm still concerned about not hearing more about both sides,

Unknown Speaker  1:31:07
where the where the fear of the black investors, we don't have that incompetence.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:14
So I'm sorry, you're not hearing enough about those kinds of kids. But my first

Unknown Speaker  1:31:19
actual question was to speak earlier, does that include business women, that are independent contractors?

Unknown Speaker  1:31:28
It includes women who identify themselves as sole proprietors of business. And if that's what those are,

Unknown Speaker  1:31:37
you have questions I'm going to come through and today's business.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:47
I do on my own, we all do.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:50
The best they can do is familiarize you with the language of the business plan, but you need to work. You need to work more on your own particular individual materials with someone who understands the dynamics. You know, you learn the language, you get a little literate in it. And it could help but I won't do I won't get you through the process. I don't think adequately. You have

Unknown Speaker  1:32:18
given the global economy, a WVD. User, the internet.

Unknown Speaker  1:32:27
We have a grant right now from the Department of Economic Development, State Department to do international training we have available right now when I'm counseling in the international arena. We've offered this year for workshops and one brownbag international issues, and we will probably be doing some more in the year. But the counseling is available right now. It involves marketing,

Unknown Speaker  1:32:58
legal issues selling nice and interesting security

Unknown Speaker  1:33:04
is well, for your organization we have when we started, there wasn't any woman who started this organization in 76 had a real vision to recognize that this was going to be an area of needed She based her assumption on the belief that while women have tremendous abilities and skills and creativity in the substantive areas of what a business would be that they because of our socialization and education lacked certain characteristics and information and skills on the business side.

Unknown Speaker  1:33:44
The hard

Unknown Speaker  1:33:47
skills you need to start a business the understanding of numbers the the the willingness to embrace money and raising of money and pricing and management and director people so that so that our programs are designed and still are unique, because we're the only ones who do it for women in our classrooms. Now, here we are honored. I don't think I have to explain the advantages of single sex education. We are always challenged on this by men who say well for teaching women only environment how can women go out and deal in the business world? Barnard knows the answer to that and if but I'll repeat it. You're able to deal with issues and problems which you're not able to discuss or deal