Unknown Speaker 00:02 That's it. That's it. For the class issue seems Unknown Speaker 00:06 to be one that's more explicitly. Unknown Speaker 00:08 You know, I keep it black so far, because a lot of that they dealt with is extremely corrupt. I mean, who gives a good example that when the black men's health project was first forming, they wanted to have meetings as well. What they heard was working class women did not want to fit on campus because filming in their procession, was this a week hailing from new battle, and I mean, we and we, the first thing I will say is you have to confront it head on and not continue to this day, and we just talked about I didn't want Unknown Speaker 00:55 to, which is, which is a sparkling trim? It's just amazing. I have had to literally, can you stop eating a one and go for 20 years, would you sleep is not a predominance of the last when you actually have to show people the opinions I mean, even dealing with that kind of truth, this this family was primarily just can't imagine a Canadian one, the majority of women became more right out of favor pool working class. And the look so what we have to begin with, but we felt we felt very explicit that we didn't pretend that it didn't exist. And we will find the able to, to decide that we would meet on the campus and just let people force, whatever they feel about this place. And people got it out. And was surprised when they came on campus and people were halfway. Unknown Speaker 01:57 There were also probably surprised that they had been given the opportunity to voice their concerns. But most times, that doesn't occur, people kind of gloss over, that they will will go on. So you started porn scene where he was never He would never take the fear Unknown Speaker 02:17 was in a Black Enterprise, one of the few black improvisations that I know, which has a diverse mix of quiet I mean, most of it black women's groups and I know a very quick strike but I don't have I don't have all the answers. I think there's no way to deal with them unless you just named them. And wait, I've heard some black people say there's no such thing as quiet. I mean, even middle class people say there's no such thing as quiet all of us a pool, which is as ridiculous an RV. Unknown Speaker 02:57 Well, certainly people would love people who would not to say that poor black is the week that we used to talking about, Unknown Speaker 03:10 which was very sad now, though, is that we have large numbers of black students who have no contact at all people in the black community other than one black in sales, and I am amazed as the greatest gap between black middle class black, and I hear you know, some of the same white things said about poor blacks, or for example, a Haitian refugee, I'm happy to say to me that these kids should not be allowed into the country because they will take out jobs. That is a fundamental problem in the black community. And I think we will need to deal with that class. Either the antagonist Unknown Speaker 04:00 financial capability as well as wanting to do what rope Unknown Speaker 04:13 rope limits Windows Unknown Speaker 04:17 scan last week, and it's now Saturday, but on the one hand, I want to say where to come from or how to continue to read. We're dealing with on campus where we decide that we have support and Mexico for us. Then we can completely disable we're across class. And it has to include this this and this and he's kind of started generically dealing with benefits are realizing that we have To set professional standards. And then when you get down to I've walked by this person, and she doesn't speak to that person, he does speak and he's hired. And then we back up from that and defense and say, Well, we were dealing with an isolation issue here. And it's not because I have speakeasy that he went over there to get to the point where we're so in our work that we interact on a personal level, on any level, so therefore, that creates this facade that we're not speaking, but it's really social withdrawal theory. But the bottom line is that sometimes your only defense, for your own survival is to get territorial, like everybody else does. And so therefore, that leads to separation, which allows plants Unknown Speaker 06:01 to grow quicker. And then Unknown Speaker 06:04 yet, in a place like that, where right that the coop has played complement, every last one of us, regardless of where we are lucky, he still even has his problems. Unknown Speaker 06:18 But to when you start talking about clear, stuff, my area, I'm the I'm, I'm a very clear person. But I've worked, I've destroyed to work in areas that were mostly more economically deprived, and I have to interact with them. To talk to them, service to service oriented communication was first week, I worked there, I was sick. I mean, I had a, I had payments. And I had to sit down and say, you know, you're not so far removed, financially, that you don't know who these people are, or that they're, you know, it was like they were these foreigners, that I had no connection with other than color. And I think it's because, you know, I, I tend to live in an area from him, I tend to socialize in the area. And over a 20 year period of time, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, I know, I know, I'm in terms of, you know, a friend of mine years ago, once said to me, she said the one thing that brought me back to reality, we were sitting at a bar, and there were only two black people sitting in this course, the thing that brings us back to reality is we're all a time, financially, but somebody walks in his room and said, there's gonna be a thing, you and I are going to know what you will die, and all of them are going to know which you will not. And so it's one thing that I keep related to, and it's one thing I kept thinking about when I started going through this little trauma, this traumatic thing. And I think that I had just, for whatever kept moving me away, whether it was moving up the ladder financially, and choosing to be around people that need the type of money I made, or whatever it was, it took me so far away so long, that I really felt like I didn't notice that our only connection was we happen to be color, same color. And, and I had started to like, really try to deal with that. And that's a whole lot of dealing with, you know, for me anyway, you know, I know that come to things like this because I really want to know how to do that. And I think the society can make you can sweep you off into lala land with the money in condos and you don't know who you are. After a while you Unknown Speaker 09:14 don't know who you are. I will say also you become a black feminist Unknown Speaker 09:17 you also become here, not just Unknown Speaker 09:21 around the issue of quiet. And I have to fight against this, but also because you really do find very few other comrades in the black community. And I've talked about even within your same play the basically when you talk about very rare fried small segments of the black community, and that's a question that I grapple with all the time to go back to a very alien, Unknown Speaker 09:50 but what is it like if you I went to a party and at this party, there was not one way initial statement was slurs that everything was real positive. And women never talked about working in a community in which real positive, but then they said, Well, I'm gonna break out of this, and I'm gonna go back into school corn war with these women, and sit and talk. And then it's like, the conversation gets to a point where if you said something, it would be easy, you know, everybody will get angry. And then, you know, it's to me, it's like, I feel like it is too much to deal with, you know, like, I'm more comfortable. appear, you know, it's a lot easier to voice my opinion and, and listen to some other opinions. And then it always seems like a fight. You know, and I don't know, I don't know how to deal with it in a positive way, and to be positive about it and work positive in a direction that makes me come back to the community of women that somehow got swept away. Unknown Speaker 11:09 I think, yeah, I'm taking this off this week, I apologize. To the organizers. Again, many of these issues came up in there. And, you know, I mean, I think while the black Unknown Speaker 11:24 leaders in the black community and feminist movement, Unknown Speaker 11:29 it just went too hard discuss our difficult 650. Social rhetoric movement, no business issues become absolutely central and talking just because faculty differences, some elitism in terms of helping me become some sort of buy into the hierarchy. And, you know, and then there becomes separate circles between giving black students and black back to, which is really, I mean, a reversal of that sort of eco centric tradition of people being students and teachers at the same time, but, but we then accept that, you know, that the professors are the experts, and the students are sort of the path receptacles of knowledge. And then similarly, in terms of defining campus politics, it becomes students that, you know, when you get beyond that, it comes to the faculty alliances that never mentioned, you know, the most oppressed groups on campus, which are black women that clean up the office, and everybody's gone home from doing the intellectual work, you know, so I think if you're talking about social change at any point, you know, these become, you know, just absolutely central issues. And, you know, I mean, the women's movement, I think the big problem in feminist movements on campuses is this idea of not of seeing a very, very limited group of even black women has been included when you think of organizing a conference like this, you know, the people with the credentials the PhD are the people who are the experts rather than community women in home we have a lot to teach women at Barnard we're working class people all around us in the institution who have seen it develop and deal with people you know, over the years so combat a class differences in the leaders and most critical and we I mean, there's so many levels that which holds us back from really developing strategies for social change and let's just walk into the discussion of dealing with that you're absolutely Unknown Speaker 13:35 right and we're at the point of time to death I work on that and we've kind of the core toward this is been okay, we have to tell the truth tell the truth. So that's what we're working with. So if in fact I'm going to tell the truth and the truth is going to make me uncomfortable as my sister here is saying here and not here. Then what tools do I use and we're still talking about you mechanism development What tool do I use? What do I use to make this happen? We happen in a bed not make me the victim once I stepped back there that okay, I'm gonna stand on my bed this principle and I know they're gonna look at me like oh, and I'm trying to have a social event I'm trying to get rid of this racism anyway. Have you always think what what can we do to do that? Unknown Speaker 14:35 I don't think we can do it comfortably but I think to be comfortable first of all, but comfortable but I mean, Unknown Speaker 14:45 well, okay, but that isn't to say that it's fine. But I'm saying okay, that's easy to say. But if I if I'm bad beat you beat it better from race etc, etc, my job and now then I call them I want have to be comfortable for a few minutes. Yeah. And I've gotten to the point where if I go up here, these guys worried I'm gonna have to drink myself still tolerate it. So I'm gonna go over here in my community and drink that news bar, and then I'm gonna get tired and bam, unforgiveness, I'm gonna turn around and say this man, no, I don't like this or my sister. You know, no, I'm a feminist. And she's gonna say, and then what point what, you know, what strategy you guys? Like, What strategy do I use that will not let me mislead? Still tell the truth. stand on my own principle and not alienate myself. So personal political strategy? Unknown Speaker 15:49 I mean, it's not always easy to separate the two. Unknown Speaker 15:53 No, I mean, I think they're related. But if we talked about primarily, you know, absent a political strategy for dealing with these things, I think it can always be frustrating personally. So, you know, it seems like we should think in terms of what politically How can we create the kinds of organizations campaigns struggles, that I want to start dealing with the problems of racism, and sexism systematically. And then out of that, try to develop a culture and a language that starts to give you a way to say things to people in a personal situation that challenges their sexism, and their racism. And the University of Michigan, I'm dealing with, you know, an anti racist struggle, they were just getting very intense over the past few days, there's some brothers involved who wearing a button saying, protect and respect black women. So, you know, we had to sit down and have a very long that what that meant, and they thought that was very positive. Yeah, you know, but because we, on one level, were united in something and he had sort of a general framework for talking, it became much easier, and now they will help me to one of them, I want and one of them is sort of, still problematic, but you know, and then you win other allies too, in personal situation, you know, and I also had to think that I'm not going to be the only woman in this who always challenges people on sexism. So if you weren't going to embrace the struggle, you got to save a PART part of the rules of the game here is that you know, I'm not going to be doing all this work, and then I'm gonna have to check you when we're having a beer. No, no, you all have to do that. Otherwise, you don't have a basis for unity here. So you know, it's hard and that's what I'm saying it's not comfortable so that's personal and political, but it's not comfortable but I've become comfortable not being competent you know. Unknown Speaker 17:39 Exactly what not before is no is that the point does have to be very political and one has to use various strategies and one probably isn't going to be comfortable most of the time yeah definitely knew we had a wonderful Unknown Speaker 18:06 up here down here, but they're uncomfortable and down there. It made me think a lot of chemistry and image of the room you know, the moment you push it up that coalition Unknown Speaker 18:20 that everybody got to have that you Unknown Speaker 18:24 can feed yourself to people that you Unknown Speaker 18:27 feel are effective. Unknown Speaker 18:31 So that you will be armed and online you can Unknown Speaker 18:34 go out there wherever that is. I want to put that together I think you said really good things you said in connection. But I don't think enough credit Unknown Speaker 18:57 and enough energy is placed into the psychology and redefining and narrowing down everyday techniques to processing emotion. Getting away from money has been so Unknown Speaker 19:31 good is there a good example? Anyway in in Kenya is very interesting. A lot of women that found American women and black women we totally have not sold. Sorry, we talk louder. We are very verbal. And and even in that situation, I would say what would you say you're going to do have the mic I mean, I used To be very uncomfortable, because I thought it was basically going against I was going to choose to modify my behavior in certain circumstances. But it was just amazing that a lot of the other third world women just found us to just be, you know, talking too much. You know, which in America feminist movement is what, you know what it's supposed to be talking for, but it was very obnoxious behavior. Even though the tone about bullying, so even what it means to be assertive, and how we would define the feminists is sometimes outside this context, very problematic for other women. And sometimes you have to even though your tone of voice America limits are very loud. And so even something like that, you really just have to rethink especially if you if you try to have coalition outside the US or with women, from other cultures, naptime you know, we, you know, even Indian feminist passes on certain levels because of their body language, their, their, their tone of voice, all of these very complex, like, Yes, this is this is how to go to an extremely complex and it's, it's it's crazy if you leave the EU with and really try and do some political work with other women who are not American, you have to rethink all kinds of things that you respect them and give them an absolutely yes. Unknown Speaker 21:39 I mean, you you're approaching this issue as if you're totally a stranger to success to it. I mean, I see you as people share that work, and that you do do it. And that you know, you didn't leave that Country Club, golf club scene and do something totally constructive and bring yourself that and do things your own responsibility. Unknown Speaker 22:09 Apparently, I don't do it enough. If I can get so uncomfortable that is I mean, it just bothers me to have to when I'm confronted with some really economically deprived area people not necessarily you know that you know, I don't know the people I don't know anything about him I know the area in which they live. And so the communication seems to be very difficult. And you know, it's not to say that I'm not going to continue to try that I haven't it's just that I need to have more I need to be to have need to continue to do it. And so I use these types of interacting with other black women to bring them here. Here they are within what they're doing so that Unknown Speaker 23:14 I actually wanted to sit so literally when you are talking about the sense of urgency feeling talking or maybe can't afford to do that just fits in certainly I saw I heard Audrey Lord go and she's speaking at Smith College in Western Mass to an audience and she said I spoke to college 13 years ago to an audience like this and I swore that I would never ever again speak to what she said I given the kind of like, I just can't afford not to do that Unknown Speaker 24:05 I think that fits in in a lot of ways and I imagine that your question sure that she sees a segment of existence that you know, she doesn't do that full time obviously she makes choices and she's gonna do that. Only she doesn't you know terms when you have the energy to struggle, Unknown Speaker 24:31 the most uncomfortable situations Unknown Speaker 24:39 so it's very uncomfortable and frustrating. Much of the panel's a mostly times but that can be really, Unknown Speaker 24:48 really fun. But it's Unknown Speaker 24:51 you buried the vehicle frustration, ambiguous contributions, even your own and as it is also somatically terrible to me, I have tremendous internal contradictions, which I'm willing to make, and to say. And I think it becomes much less frustrating when you're able to do that. To say that, I mean, I'm not going to say that I would feel comfortable walking in certain parts of the lab. You know, there's no such thing as real simple component would fall in a building the black female, I'm not going to let my racial romanticism say that. You know, somebody might not pass, I don't mean, but yet at the same time, you know, I will say that there's a lot of hysteria about this monster black male, have the juggle, of both of those things. And that doesn't say that sometimes when I get on the elevator, and some really you know, what I might seem to be threatened, like, we'll get on there, but I don't feel. And so I think one has to be honest, I mean, who just what I was trying to say, and tell the truth. And then I can still go to another level and realize that some of that paranoia comes from evidence from out in the community. So it's very complex. And I think one always has to be doing what you know, what you call self critique. I mean, you have to look at it not only outside of yourself, or constantly look at yourself, and get on the inside and see where some of this madness is coming from. But I think when we do that, there's much more of a possibility, health and if you don't tell the truth Unknown Speaker 26:54 is a line in which your contradictions around your work to show Unknown Speaker 27:02 I don't think you can stay isolated, and you're doing what you think you have to have people before you can always come home. I think this is very important, because I think that black people, we have, we have an agenda. And I don't think that we can ever be gone. And with that, I think we accept that there won't stop. But I know that we can go live comfortably. And you must have the people who can be together, I just find that. Also say, Unknown Speaker 27:49 good man in the background, but I'm glad to get away from Unknown Speaker 27:57 Atlanta, you know, for me to go to a black institution where all the key people and everybody are black. I mean, it was just, it's just, it's just something I mean, it's truly Unknown Speaker 28:11 it's absolutely frustrating to go because because the expectation My God, I mean, you can't blame it on where you can blame it on internal places. But you can blame always a wise and you can't blame them. So either way. Unknown Speaker 28:26 So where are we on? The bottom line, bottom line, but we know that we've worked on the struggle, and you've got to continue to work I made this is why sometimes we come together. In the midst of our pain in a series of small discussion, we can still find a little bit of humor, it's hard to survive. It's not the situation for humor. But one way to kind of keep them Unknown Speaker 28:59 moving do you do Unknown Speaker 29:04 one other thing that Unknown Speaker 29:06 I'm actually put on the future filament blacking is very Unknown Speaker 29:12 much have two different filters in relation to measure and I don't see that I see it some extent that they're still very traditional sexual socialization within my town. I've seen it even even among my environment, black, black friends who love Unknown Speaker 29:37 this very traditional Unknown Speaker 29:40 sexual social life. And I think that that's an issue that we have not dealt with suspicion. And I think that's the homophobia of fear. Man, weak man gets in the way of that only getting a logical level. You know, many black women say that they want their male to be different than what they've seen, but on another level All right. So that's an area that I'm very much interested in. And don't see very much Unknown Speaker 30:07 work done in terms of, Unknown Speaker 30:10 or even, for example, in terms of how policy teachers are trained in terms of this very traditional sexual assault, but I don't see I don't see our way out of these dominance submission cans, and the personal relationships will definitely change our definition of what we Unknown Speaker 30:34 see is not nine minute or ratio is different. In terms of in terms of what their expenses Unknown Speaker 30:45 really depends on which household you're talking about. Well, Unknown Speaker 30:51 if I ask my students you know which males to close in really takes take him so blackmail? So Unknown Speaker 31:02 they know how to Yeah, Unknown Speaker 31:03 they do they know how to do those kinds of things in the right. Language, right. So that's not that's my tendency more Unknown Speaker 31:09 wisdom is Unknown Speaker 31:12 knowing how to do that and doing. Unknown Speaker 31:26 wear masks when it suits me in that household, they wash the dishes and abrupt was into the garment. That was not this blurring effect roles within that family. And I would want to break all this. But I don't think they crossed the ball, we can assume the black males have had non traditional sexual assault, even if you hold class. Unknown Speaker 31:52 And then I think you really have to break down between household chores. Yes. Having to deal with male female relationships and domination. They're certainly Unknown Speaker 32:04 right, I would have to say what has to occur even some black women No, Unknown Speaker 32:10 no, no. Unknown Speaker 32:17 Because black men compared this situation when they are black, when they couple, they they act like like a parent. In their own household, Unknown Speaker 32:35 they have this Unknown Speaker 32:40 single, quote, taken care of themselves when they married what you know is if they assume traditional sex, right, Unknown Speaker 32:49 boy, even though the claims of women we know that the department had to say that we had this enlightened set of men gay straight, I went to all the blame. And then obviously, it was like six men, two women Unknown Speaker 33:10 over there, you know, watching the football game, there'll be one football and it's sort of just this gentle, you know, separation, they get this real supportive atmosphere and all of a sudden, you're the one doing the work and all that, you know, we've got to really make a conscious effort. It's your turn to do this. Unknown Speaker 33:27 I'll take a trip or if you're chairing a Unknown Speaker 33:29 meeting and you ask someone to take the minute Unknown Speaker 33:34 you know, one of the dynamics goes back into it to go get them separated and isolated if you don't mind would you please take one for me and they obviously Unknown Speaker 33:58 he's the ambassador who has wanted to say something and hasn't been able to because Unknown Speaker 34:07 yeah I heard about it I heard negative things about it. And the Oprah Winfrey Oh, yes. No, of hands on fire. Unknown Speaker 34:36 I really can't play right now, that was that wasn't No it wasn't. Yeah, I Unknown Speaker 34:58 thought Newsweek I left you with no clear idea about it and it what you ended up with was that a black man who was not committed and yeah was did make it but they didn't sell stuff and they could have worked harder and they just didn't quite get it together but there but you ended up with one who made it Atlanta director Unknown Speaker 35:28 and so it's possible so Unknown Speaker 35:34 I was doing an exercise Unknown Speaker 35:37 I think in the article what you might do is just come so far you what you've done with their lives but none of the motivations of what the social pressures Unknown Speaker 35:53 are New York Magazine did an article on middle class five months ago Unknown Speaker 36:10 and I sort of see them as all belong we're young black women are wise in these babies Unknown Speaker 36:29 to me extent to which rely on Unknown Speaker 36:34 Wi Fi networks Unknown Speaker 36:37 well that's I think the same thing with respect we found was written out about black women about that piece coming from well it's what we deal with the color the question of color or black and for the second pass and she got hit me with it especially since it sometimes get labeled. Because there was a so called liberated for pack and Unknown Speaker 37:17 some of the Caribbean. Unknown Speaker 37:47 Because the two women