Unknown Speaker 00:01 Women Children are born. And it is really the issue of empowerment. I think I am not going to talk. It doesn't happen already late start, we have more speakers and we have the slideshow in addition. So I would just like to Unknown Speaker 00:19 say. People in general, I'd like to extend revolutionary greetings and solidarity. I've been asked to speak about the immigrant situation, but it's very difficult to speak about that without first linking it to the reason why we are here in Salvador in Washington, we are here at Central Americans. Your government has said that we are not political refugees here in this country. We are economic refugees. And I'd like to just talk a little bit about why we are not here as economic refugees. The objective conditions that have existed in our country for so long, has paused various entities, objective conditions are oppression, the repression that goes on in our country, the exploitation has caused subjective conditions in our country to come about. And these are the organization of our people to combat these existing conditions, depression, etc. And the lights were out people you probably read about him in newspapers, it's not hard to people anymore, but I just like to talk a little bit about where the refugees are coming from, especially the women. They're coming from the countryside in El Salvador, where we know right, where the majority of them are single mothers head of household, when where they go to work with their children. They are not basically they are under contract that their children are not under contract. So they receive one salary, and a portion of food that they must share with the rest of their children. This, of course, makes people start to think of why you must continue living based Christian communities have sprung up in El Salvador during 1970s, where women came into them and started saying, why don't we change our type of life here in El Salvador? So there was some changes that What about repression from the government, in the city also, a lot of these women did go to the city looking for better employment possibilities in the city. But life was even worse when the time the women became domestic servants. And here the life is that a virtual slavery where women have no set hours, they're not under any contract. They, the employer does not abide by any type of minimum wage, a woman wants the job, she takes it for whatever wage is given. Women are exploited sexually, they serve as a first sexual experience for their employer, son, and also for the pleasure of their employer. In the factories in the Salvador giga factory set up by North American companies, trade free zones in El Salvador, where those factories these corporations pay no taxes, where certain age discrimination is rampant, where women can be paid up to 25% less pay for equal work, where women are examined to see if they're pregnant. And if they are, they're dismissed. Where in many of these places, there are no types of benefits for them. So these other conditions, specific to women, maternity care is almost non existent in the 1970s. It was one maternity hospital and that was in San Salvador available only to well to do women. Birth control and sterilization abuses. rampid most notorious one was the Malaria campaign, where women were taking birth control pills for up to four years thinking that they were from malaria, when reality there were experimental birth control that led many of them to become sterilized. So these are the abuses. These are the reasons why our people have come to the point of taking a determination that determination is to struggle for liberation. Many women have taken up that challenge they have overcome enormous obstacles have taken their children into the revolutionary process, and are now participating in that process in combat and messengers and supporters in every single aspect that you can imagine any revolutionary classes at this point 40% of the women in the population 40% or 40 In the control zones of El Salvador, women are in every single area of production, educational, health, etc. But because the repression in our country got so intense, after the 1980s 1980, on the repression even got your story, and to tell you Unknown Speaker 05:23 the type of torture, the type of intimidation that the women experienced, it will make you understand why so many women with their children have left the country. It's common knowledge, no shopping, action, not by wanting to so there's a multitude of soldiers, many are held naked in prisons, with sacks over their heads. Electric shock is common. Until the women drop, they're woken up again. There are cases where women's bodies have been cut up in razor blades, when your children are mutilated in front of women, to intimidate them, to not continue on with the struggle, where women are bound to chairs, and the children are paraded in front of them your torture until this does. Anybody certainly does intimidate us. We are human beings. Unknown Speaker 06:21 You know, contrary to what Ronald Reagan said, Unknown Speaker 06:24 we were running for presidential elections, he said that most Americans should not concern themselves about what's happening. Because we're different. We're accustomed to that type of repression. Sub human sub animals, even cows. So this is the kind mentality that the Reagan administration has was our people. Many women have decided to leave the country, many of them are in Central America, and many of them have come to the United States. And why do they come to the United States, it's much harder to get the the ordeal that they have to go through just to get into this country Unknown Speaker 07:10 is hard. But why do they because they hear that there Unknown Speaker 07:14 is democracy going on here. There there is freedom going on. But when they come here, they need something. What is it like for Salvadoran woman, she goes through Central America to make contact with what we call a young person who basically asked for a lot of money to cross over the border. These women are raped, the children are raised. Many times you're left alone along the roadside, or in houses on vans. And the point of the never returned is when an attacker may lose all the money that they have borrowed the hex thing. And there's either too many of the lucky ones continued after the robbed after being raped. And after seeing the children the kind of jobs a lot of them get jobs as domestic servants. Soccer don't usually go to the occupation cities Unknown Speaker 08:15 very hard for Central Americans Unknown Speaker 08:18 to live in New York City or Chicago, it's very, very difficult for us. So we go to the outskirts where it's more rural. And here, people contract refugees, women who have been frightened out of their whips with their children, because maybe their husband was taken prisoner. Because their brother was taken prisoner, the father was killed. And they went through the ordeal of getting to the United States. And now they face another origin. They're in the homes with no set hours, where minimum wage, they don't know that there was such a thing as minimum wage. And in addition to that, they are constantly intimidated that if these women want to leave, they're going to be an Amiga, that they're going to be told they're going to tell the neagra about the immigration, there is constant every day here, that mica is going to get. So these women are basically under slave type conditions, just the way they are. They know how to deal with the added feature of having gone and going to country shop here in this country. Totally different environment where the weather is totally different people have different languages different and where there is massive, gross racism, that they must stay where we are treated as animals. What about the other women women? I don't know probably we will have had a little bit of education that have lived in cities for some time. Many of these I go into factory labor to the United States, not too different than what they did in Salvador. But here, again, the country where they thought that was much better, they are worse. There are factories on Long Island where women are receiving one to $2 an hour where they are told that if you don't come back on Saturday and Sunday for not coming back, these women are in constant fear that immigration again, and they don't dare complain, who they can complain to, they might hear that there's a place to complain about complain, too. But they don't. Because they have five children. And they know that if they go to leave, there's fear that they're going to be deported. So this constant, there are services available. There are agencies that do supply services. I think it was last year, the American Friends Service Committee, the Women's Network, had a group of people gathered to see how we could get women to avail themselves to services. Salvadorans, what about diapers on Daniels, they're all scared. For medical attention, education, many children don't go to school for months and months and months, because they're afraid to register the children. So we're trying to find a way how we can get people to come. But the majority of them are men, not because women are more afraid, because they're usually responsible for the children. So they don't. In addition to all of this, there is the machismo, the machismo that exists in us that we belong at home, we must stay home taking care of the children. And the man is the one who wants to go out and seek any type of services. If the man knows wanted to go out and seek the services boutique, not afraid. And the machismo opera man what kind of problems difficult situation creating the family. There are many divorces. There many beatings, horrible domestic condition, because it's easier for women to find jobs here than it is. Men don't usually find jobs, at least for domestic service. So the women's a lot of that is changing the scheme of things, traditional scheme of things too radical for people who don't have a certain level of consciousness. So eight enormous problems. What does it do to your economy? There is this myth that we take the jobs that most Americans don't want, is that true? Are we taking these jobs because how many people live on $2 An hour or $1? Now, it's not that you don't want it's not that the rest of this country don't want Unknown Speaker 13:18 conditions, when we go under those conditions and have no choice. And it depresses your standard of living. And it makes matters for us. Horrible, because we are living under the worst conditions. It's also doing something to each other. You and I must say this, again, you everywhere. You're spending over $1 million a day, just enough to kill our people. And to create the flow of refugees into this country. You can stop it. The reason I say you is because your tax dollars, that is doing your government in your name is doing this to the people are coming to America. And also you're having a negative repercussions here in this country. Your government is circumventing the will of His people, the will of Congress. Right now, Congress is opposed, yet the United States is going someplace else. You have an enormous moral responsibility to stop us adventure, the military aid and the economic aid the economic aid because that is being used for the same purpose. So I leave you with that responsibility to tell you about. Unknown Speaker 14:59 The role of you You probably do have questions, but I think we should keep the questions for the end because I'm perfectly replicate each other. I also hope to very well pass out some literature on Amazon, which also operates here in New York, and it's a vehicle to give aid and assistance. Unknown Speaker 15:30 In order for you to understand the experience of the migrant workers in New Jersey, ought to talk to you about what's the situation in Puerto Rico and what has been the situation in Puerto Rico since 1898, when the United States invaded Puerto Rico, and Puerto Rico became a colony of this country. By that time, our country was an agricultural country. We produced everything we were consuming after the United States invaded the island. They impose their economic necessities there, and foreign people. But all the land almost all the land in the islands, and Puerto Rico became the biggest sugarcane producer for the United States. The law that governs the relationship with the United States and Puerto Rico says that we cannot buy from any country in any part of the world we we have to buy from the United States, even though that's the most expensive market in the world. Right now, what the recall is being used as a military base. It was used exercises was done there before the invasion of Grenada. We have about 1500 National Guardsmen and women, you know, barama they have been there since the United States decided to invade Grenada and after what Gustavo Nicaragua that equation in the island economic situation is very bad. Unemployment rate is almost 50%. Now, right now, the labor force is composed mostly of women. Most men are unemployed because American in the street have left the island, they have gone to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, and other places where they don't have to pay minimum minimum wage salaries. Because those people are not US citizens. While the Ricans are united states, everything that was imposed before the First World War, in order for the United States to get Puerto Rican, to go through the wars. So this economic situation produces that every year, between 20 to 30,000. Men and women migrate to the farms, mostly in South Jersey for the season. Right now, the situation in South Jersey is very bad. The weather has caused flooding in the farm, we will probably have a very bad season. Farmers are saying that they don't have work right now. There are many, many, many points and beacons sleeping in the streets of towns in South Jersey. Right now, there's a group that has been working with migrant workers to try to organize them. We have been working with them since four years ago, we began our educational work. But there is much resistance to these. The farmers are people who control all the political and economic and the economy of South Jersey. And they are the judges or their sons are the judges. They they control the police. And every time we try to organize in a farm, they have been arrest. And there is fear between the Puerto Rican. There is fear between the women that are there also. Some of the Puerto Ricans that have come to South Jersey they have decided to stay there and live there. So because they know that they won't find any job in the island. There is a group of women Now that for the first time in four years, are losing the fear of fighting for the rights. And they have become part of this group, which is called committed Apollo travel holiday. Sadly, cola. And right now, the group is in a process of becoming a union when younger travelers Agricola for farmworkers union. Unknown Speaker 20:26 For the first time, like I said before, we have women involved in this process, their condition, the working conditions, in those ones are inhuman. The biggest camp there, which is located in Glasgow, was was a prison for the Japanese in the Second World War. And it's just like that by now, the camps and the places where these workers have to live and sleep for eight or nine months. Some of them don't even have any bathroom. They have to sleep in the floor. The rooms are very small. And they have to pay enormous quantity of money for the food. There's also a problem in in the distance that we have between each camper. South Jersey is a huge place. And in order for us to go from one camp to another, it takes a long time, that also prevents these workers from communicating each other. So they don't know what's going on in the other camp. And we are trying to solve that problem. We are trying to put more people in our staff, and so that we can take care of every camp we can. But the process is very difficult. And the situation like I said is very bad. Because the island is being used as a military base right now. All the military bases have been reactivated. After the Vietnam War, those military bases were given to the government of Puerto Rico, and they were schooled in most of them. The schools have been closed without providing any other alternative to the children that were in those schools. They don't have any food to go now. And there is a big, big, big military movement in the island. Exercises are being done right now. bombarding a small island near Puerto Rico is called the I guess, which is an island composed mainly of fishermen, people that are trying to struggle for their life and their food, they live from the fishing, and they Marines right now. They don't permit this defense go out and fish. Two years ago, there was a rally in Vegas when the exercises were done at that time, and three people were imprisoned by the federal government. Two of them right now were evicted by the federal grand jury, and one of them was still imprisoned by Cuba and by a Cuban Marshal, who admitted killing these human beings and that nothing no charges were were were prosecuted against that man, he is right now working in that prison and nothing was done. I must say that, although we are not considered immigrants nor refugees, our situation might be even worse. Because we are a colony of the United States. Our mass media, communications TV channels, newspapers are controlled by US interest. It is very difficult to deal with the colonized mentality. And especially of the women machismo in the loving countries, is a factor that it's part of our life. So it's very difficult and in the winter Reagan situation becomes even worse, because we have to deal with the colonized mentality. And that's a psychological problem. The island right now is very depressed in terms of economic we. We are illegible 77% of the population on the island is illegible for food stamps. What that means is that the poverty level there is the highest quality learning how All United States. Most people depends on food stamps and welfare programs. The Reagan administration has been cutting those programs, but their current has not been big. We are expecting that if we got wins the next election, then the situation might get even worse. Unknown Speaker 25:28 The labor center where I work, I have been working there for about four months, just passed my first winter here. As part of my work, they're trying to develop a program to help in the organizing efforts of the migrant workers and also the Latino women. Since I am the only women in the faculty, the only Latina I have confirmed some resistance from my colleagues. But this summer, I'm going to provide their to do in the in our labor center, a women's summer school for trade union, trade union women's summer school will be held the week of July the 22nd to the 27th. And the purpose of doing that is to develop among trade union women and especially minorities women, Latina and black women leadership skills and to give them facts that they might use in order to organize and understand their particular situation. Unknown Speaker 26:43 Thank you very much going to show the client. Unknown Speaker 27:25 Well, turmoil power and just them protecting the privilege of the rich class in that country. People protested they were subjected to an organized, militarized with pressure from the government. Many were taken to by death squads at this very moment. From the 50,000 people that have been killed, most of them have been killed by their for the country, the country went under civil wars so that the military scattered carrying out scorched line operations in the area where the rebels were acting, and civilians were, of course, affected. In that game to the countryside in El Salvador, people have to flee the repression and violence. One of the places was going up north, where the rebels were controlling most of the areas, but people kept on fleeing because of the bombings. According to church report, an average of 50 persons are killed in every bombing that the Saudi government Air Force carries out. The rebels now control close to a part of the territory or 89 municipalities are between 61 Because you Unknown Speaker 28:55 is the way our Salah looks from Honduras where where the refugees visit then a personnel report on what the refugee life is like in the San Antonio. Unknown Speaker 29:16 A doctor went down there and stayed six months helping the people. This is the home of 1000 solidarity with the capital of San Antonio. Double San Antonio. People are from cabanas, San Vicente and San Miguel provinces. Many have been living here for three years. They fled the repression of the military in the tents are close together. We all live on two acres of land. The tents offer little protection from the sun and the heat are only slightly better protection from the rain storms of winter. The roofs are a canvas. The walls are plastic, and canvas. Many of the parents have walls made of dried leaves and twigs in this town 13 People live in other camps like this, as many of 42 people have been found living together. The other inhabitants of the camps are flies least live and created all the insects by the people and make life a little bit more miserable. Life here is rarely easy. Corn beans, oil, rice, dry milk, coffee and a time specials are trucking to the car. The trip takes two days and much of the food is rotten when it arrives. A small warehouse is all warehouse stores that weekly provision. The Honduran military did not allow more than one week supply to be in the camp. They hear the FMLN they realize organization will be given extra food we receive any fruits or vegetables they were usually rotten because of the daily 115 degree heat. I worked as a doctor off the camp for about six months. And these are some of the things which I saw happening in the camp. There were some men in the camp. They worked as they have you know solid preparing fields of rented land for the cornfields and the land of Honduras was poor rocky, and water was scarce. The men also work level areas so that the ants could be built for new refugee arrivals. They also dug holes for the garbage pit and latrines. We all use the latrines in order to prevent the spread of the diarrhea and warmth found in in the feces. At first the latrines were poorly built and other field. Later we have new latrines far from the water and the kitchens. The work continues to keep the latrines clean in the on the inside. We wash the seats baby and place detergents in the hall every day and use the taps to prevent the flowers from breathing inside. The men also work in the carpentry, weaving shoe workshops. Materials were limited by the Honduran military. They feared that the product would be given to the FMLA the women always had many activities. Everybody watched a lot of water reservoir. And during the winter they went to the creek. The clothes were washed and women wear their dresses back to the camp where they had only one dress. On the way back to the camp the water was carried up the hill, often the pipe systems which brought water today. Today. Water supplies were brought in by Honduran activists from the right. When that happened, no water was in the camp for two days while repairs were being made. We may cook from before sunrise to sunset in the communal kitchens to help each other and save their scarce firewood. All tortillas and beans were made in communal kitchens. Rarely were received wheat flour to make bread. Their meat is preparing the doll to be placed in the oven. After it has been warmed properly. Unknown Speaker 34:04 10 minutes later she is ready to serve the bread for his her six children. Her husband had died in the war. This bread was made with rice flour, ground by the meter and the other woman. The rice bread was a delicious and nutritious substitute for bread made from wheat flour. Women also made some of the pottery used in the camp Maria and me that are preparing the pots for baking any that uses the cow excrement to make a hotter fire. She then like the pile of excellent and twigs to harden the pattern. Later the pottery is ready for use. The Women's time for enjoyment and relaxation was too short, but many at least some materials they have been shown how to embroider and have made many beautiful designs. Well, yeah drew partners on the toss, before it was stitched. She drew designs of flowers, birds and scenes of life in the camp and then all. These also gave the women a chance to talk about life in the camp, or to the news they have shared on the radio or about their husbands, sons and daughters, who stayed to fight. We had some visitors to the camp. The favorite visitor was Father Miguel, he is from Spain, and he has been working with the refugees for a year. These are some of the scenes from when he arrived to baptize the children and say mass. Wealth children were were baptized, that they, including Jose, he was the fattest, the kids in the camp because his mother cotterman had given him only breast milk until he was six months old. He never had a fever or diarrhea, and was the most beautiful baby anytime. Carmen often breastfed other babies whose mothers had no milk. She shared her gift of breast milk with those less fortunate. During mass, we sang the songs of the top of the church, Oscar Romero, and a freedom of all people. Usually the priests could not visit the camp and the delegates of the war conducted the religious services. Here we are saying the Stations of the Cross via the Media gave instructions to all the people. You also encouraged everybody to attend school. A full school program was established to teach children to read and write. Adult classes were held to classes including discussions on the history of El Salvador, the government, hygiene, waste disposal, and other topics of the help. Books were scarce and were shared. There was a school building, but it was usually filled with new refugees who had not tend to live in or their visitors were few and stayed for one month and work with the women on the Nutrition Center. The other women are Rosa in the pink dress and Reina in the white press. Both work in the health clinic. Rena was my best assistant. She always helped her people and always had patients with my odd end quote, green gold miners. Reina is doing some embroidery here not the woman in the red dress was one of the other clinic workers in s is the woman in the blue dress. She is from Germany and organized the school teachers. The school teachers are all Salvadorans and the nest helped them to construct good classes. If I was the Honduran who work in the camp for almost two years, he ensured that there was food, firewood and water. He worked at great risks for himself. For there are many disappeared in Honduras. If Ryan taught me about the people, their costumes, and much more. That is a green guy who visited often, she worked in the nutrition center, she helped special kitchens to be built for the Milan malnourished children and adults where they ate she he she has worked with a solid audience for eight years and her energy to help the people with never and this is the kitchen of the nutrition center. The women volunteered to work extra to feed the sick children and adults and the pregnant women. Nearly one meal have either a vegetable or a bit of cheese. Unknown Speaker 38:59 This was the cleanest kitchen in the whole time. Thanks to workers such as Lola, Lillian and Julio. This is where I ate milk in the morning. tortilla with rice and vegetable at noon and milk at night. Lola always made me a hot tortilla. There are hundreds of children in a dump. And I want you to meet the children who ate in the nutrition center. They were the thinnest weakest and they were all one sickness away from dying. This was Scott Alexander and yeah, no food. They were all born in El Salvador and were very poor. Families had no land. They had to come to El Salvador. The children also drew pictures. How was life like in El Salvador, they do pictures of helicopters and bombs. They do pictures of helicopters and soldiers. They do pictures of helicopters and bows and bullets. He also drew pictures of bodies in their real empire, where they had to cross come to the camp and were attacked by the military. The helicopters follow the children. And they went during military also came to the camp to terrorize the people. They under our military, our oppressors to do all of these is made me has made me wonder why this another and continues to fight? Who will gain? The answer arrives with each new birth in the camp. All the kids are fat, healthy and beautiful. Maria transito has been fed breast milk. Darwin and his mother drank all the boiled water because they have not seen his father shot. Marco has not seen his mother rate and murder. Now look at the faces of the new El Salvador. The United one day Oh, she has only heard the sound of gunfire from inside her mother's belly. The war continues. So that one day, these newborns can return to El Salvador and be free of the repression of the government. You and the baby, we are returned when the government becomes one and the same for all. Think we are 20 years. Unknown Speaker 41:57 So I don't like to see with my back door. I don't like people taking what I say. So that's why out there calling me on Wednesday. I just found that a call Unknown Speaker 42:28 to make another crisis at our agency. Unknown Speaker 42:32 I knew her name from the times when I was getting my doctorate at Monster. And because the person who recommended her to me in a way was so neurosis was a very dear friend and esteemed colleague for whom I have a great respect for what I'm about to do very briefly, because I thought that we had a you all had already excellent presentations, you could try to make a connection as to why it is that I thought it was appropriate to talk about the subject of family planning in a workshop, that half of the title, immigrants and refugees. And I would like to take a few minutes to introduce to you the Family Planning Council and distribute some propaganda Unknown Speaker 43:27 because literature Unknown Speaker 43:32 the I came to the council in 1982. On a I call that my re entry into the struggle, three entry not from not from outer space, but re entry after having retreated toward winning first in 1974, and then to the universities in 1976, to recharge the batteries a little bit. So my reentry was completed when I landed at the Council, which is one of the only organizations in the country, which represents grassroots groups, which are survivors of the war on poverty, if you remember there was supposed to be a war on poverty a few years ago. Well, it so happened that during those days, groups of minority groups in different communities organized family planning clinics, and many of them were close with one reason or one excuse or another. And eventually the stronger ones survived and against the wheel. Were all put together in 1981 under the umbrella of the community Family Planning Council done was against the wheel because quite often people in a situation is not able to analyze all of the ramifications. So actions taken at this Time. And because they felt that organizing on the one umbrella organization was really Unknown Speaker 45:11 the reality is that after one year of poor performance eventually by the end of making it to, I was recruited to come to the council and I came to the council No, because my expertise is in family planning. In fact, in the 1960s, I used to challenge some of the people who work with me at Nena, because as minority people they were working in family planning. And during those days, my perception of family planning was more closely related to population control and genocide than to an effort to improve the quality of life of people. So in fact, I don't come from the family planning movement. I went to the Council for two reasons, they had so many managerial problems that occurred administrator and as a manager, it was a challenge. But also I saw potential because these were the survivors, they had 12 clinics throughout the poor and minority communities of the city. And having been one of the organizers to the patient rights movement in the 1960s, you have to see it completely destroyed in the 19. In the late 1970s. And the 1980s. I saw the potential for a political movement, I saw the potential for continuing the struggle for community control of their civil services were beyond that, I became I became very aware of the fact that family planning the way in which I knew family planning and had heard about was a very limited kind of program, that in fact, family planning is not a medical service. That in fact, family planning is a very important human service that happens to have a medical component that in fact, family planning is a vehicle and should be a vehicle for empowerment of women and minorities. And because I saw the potential for empowerment of women, and of minority, and the challenge in that is that I accepted to become the executive director of the Council. And we are still in the struggle to get known as a different kind of family planning service. If family planning service wishes, deliver by minority staff, a planning service which is influenced and controlled primarily by minority and low income people from the communities, but a family planning service, which is not interested in population control. We are interested in working with women and their families in trying to get them to obtain the kind of power that they need in order to change the future for them and for their families. And that is why we are interested in not the family in not defining family planning as a medical service. Because even though we have exceptions in the health field of physicians who understand the issues, and the constraints of the medical model, the truth of the matter is that this tablished health system in this country is organized about it around a very limited and oppressive medical model, which renders patients and primarily women completely headless, headless be service professional. So we have talking about using family planning as that kind of vehicle. That is why for example, one of the mandates. One of the first mandates as an administrator to my staff was to conduct voter registration, nonpartisan, like Bella set is a nonpartisan voter registration, but again, because if we are talking about family planning, and we are talking about women trying to take control of their of their bodies, they have to take control of every single one of the decisions that affect their life. And in those decisions, which they cannot control completely, because let's realize we are never we live in an environment where we depend on each other where there are a lot of constraints, where there is only a few decisions that we make with absolute freedom, there is always decisions that have to be made in participation with other people. But to make sure that no decision is made about a boomer about her families, which they have not had a list, a very important role to play in shaping that decision. And that is how we see family planning. And one of the issues for example that we are starting to direct our attention to is to the issue of teen pregnancy. Unknown Speaker 49:50 And again, even in talking about the issue of teen pregnancy, it is important to bring a minority perspective to dealing with the issue to start with, we should not and we don't, or we don't say, the problem of teen pregnancy, because one of our perceptions is that a problem is a problem depending on who defines the problem. And that for as long as we adults, professionals define teenage pregnancy as a problem, which is a problem for some, for subset, some segments of society, we may have a tendency to define programs, which assume that teenage pregnancy is a problem for the pregnant teen, or that is perceived as a problem for the pregnant teen, teen. And our perception is that why pregnancy by child presents, as a consequence, a number of stresses and problems to that child, that child doesn't necessarily perceived pregnancy before getting pregnant or after good getting pregnant as a problem. And it is a difference. The other issue has to do with the notion of to what extent pregnancies are unwanted pregnancies. Again, our perception is that one of the limitations in some of the family planning programs up to now has been a tendency and please let me once more repeat, I am not an expert in family planning. This is my gut feeling, whatever section that some of the limitations in those programs, from our perspective is that a limitation has been a tendency to define all pregnancies universally as unwanted pregnancies, especially pregnancies in certain groups. And to develop programs on the theory that the pregnancies which were unwanted, occur only because people did not have information were ignorant, or because people did not have access to contraceptives. And once you define a problem in those terms, the program that follows is a program, which only provides information about contraceptives. And that only makes contraceptive available. And that doesn't deal with the larger socio economic issues involved in a pregnancy. What we are saying is that while that kind of definition of the problem, and that kind of theoretical construct, may be true for a segment of the population, it doesn't hold water for large segments of the population, certainly not for the communities where we work, and we work in the low income in the most deprived communities of the city of New York throughout the five boroughs. What we are saying is that we have to look up to how do they define these pregnancies, which are the pressures and the needs that these pregnancies may be responding to. And that we have to be given priority in our programs to develop the kind of support systems that is going to assist our patients and the families of our patients who are the communities to deal with the realities of life and the reality of the pressures, which would put them in a better position to make a decision whether they want the child or not, and that don't have to have a child, they don't want to have a child. But if they want to have a child, which the majority of them want the children, they should have the opportunity to raise his children properly. And we're family planning should not be used as a substitute for a better redistribution of resources, or should not be used as a substitute for improving the schools, which is given a message to many, many of our teens, that they are worthless or given a message to some of our main themes that they are not men, and are giving a message to them that perhaps the only way in which they have left to show that they are human, and that they are men is to have a child. So we have a responsibility to try to develop programs to show them that they have better ways to show their masculinity than to impregnating a girl and that they have the right to have a child but then they have to be ready to have a child not that they should not have it, but they have to be ready and that when we talk to them about trying to Unknown Speaker 54:36 delay a pregnancy. It is not because we are going to do that in such a way that is going to further undermine their sense of self esteem and the sense of self respect, but because we are going to assist them to go through a process where they decide that they have first to engage in a struggle to obtain the kind of power that they need and the kinds of resources that they need so that they could be participating. In equal with everybody else in the resources of this country, and then they decide to have a child. So we have to start to define the issues of family planning in those kinds of socio economic terms and political terms. And that is why we believe that the way in which we look at family planning is a little different than the way in which other people look at family planning. And this is why, for example, we do not provide a sterilization in our clinics. It so happens that we don't provide abortions, either we refer people for the services when they want it. But the question is that we are concerned with the children who perhaps are not ready to be born because their families are not ready to have them. But we are concerned about the children that these families already have. And it's our contention that unless we find ways and we don't have the answers, but unless we start to define the issues in a certain way, we never have the answers. So unless we find the programs that is going to raise the sense of self esteem, that sense of self respect, which cannot be raised unless they acquire a degree of power over their environment, we are not going to be dealing with the issues involved in family planning in appropriate way. So basically, that is why we are trying to do the community Family Planning Council. We don't know how to do it yet. But one way in which we know how not to do it, is not to defy family planning, family planning, in a very narrow way, in a way not to do it is to provide only medical services following a medical model that further on the minds, the sense of self esteem and self respect of the people that come to us. And a way not to do it, is by not ignoring the socio economic and political consequences of family planning, and not addressing the issue of empowerment, wishes on the line in a basic way, all of the different presentations that were made to get to here. And I would like to try to correct it to your panel, to mention that one of the things that he's of great concern to us at the council, is that by the fact that most of the populations that we serve, as all of normos, all of the populations that we serve the poor, which goes together with being newly, newly immigrants, and minority, wide, often the services that they have available to them in the outside world, in terms of medical services are oppressive or inadequate, are substandard. And in fact, there's not a high risk of a spill here in the United States, being exposed to physicians who prescribe drugs, which are either already very suspect of causing cancer and other major issues or major problems in relation to reproduction, or drugs, which at least are not even demonstrated to have effectiveness. And we are even more concerned that some of our staff who has gone to finish their storage in some of the Caribbean countries. I have found that what we all know from here, but they have found that in fact, it's even government policy to continue to support research in the women of minority countries and the developing countries, which would not be allowed in this country to continue not only to do research, but to make available to the general population drops and has been banned in this country. And I think that one of the worst situations yet is again, because the medical profession has elevated themselves. So high that is only next to go on sometimes about Unknown Speaker 58:57 we the lay people and our people have a tendency that every single position says is based on the gospel, we've been challenged the pope before we challenge the position. So what happens that it is very difficult to have a campaign to educate the public when the message that we give runs contrary to the message of the medical profession. So it is a very big job that we have ahead in terms of finding ways of publicizing first of all, that the physician is not any more than we are human beings who make a lot of mistakes. And they have to take responsibility for being informed about what is safe and unsafe. Because quite often their physicians are either not informed, because quite often they recommend only based on what the salesperson presents to them. And we have the evidence of that. Or if they are informed after all women and women from a minority community. What does it matter? What is the percentage of cancer it doesn't matter? If you're a smaller percentage, you have to take a risk So it is important that indeed, we are going to continue to be subjects of experimentation, we are going to continue to be subjected to drop shadow safe and don't only affect and threatens our own life, but the life of the children and of the next generations. And what is worse yet, is that then this, some of these women come to this country. But they were believing that these drugs were safe. So we're still I suspect, and I don't know what I was talking to Saskia about it shortly on the telephone. And she mentioned something that leads me to believe that perhaps some of our refugees and some of our immigrant women may be importing, smuggling from the countries, some of the drugs, which they cannot buy here in the drugstores, because may have been banned in this country, because they haven't found on suitable for the population in this country, but because it was given to them by physicians who they trusted in their countries. And of course, they have reasons not to trust the ones here too much. So they may be smuggling drugs, which are very dangerous. And I wonder what should be the role of all of us in trying to advocate for their protection and the protection of the children. So I think that I should quit. And thank you for the opportunity to, to be here with you today. And I will pass around some of our literature. Thank you very much. Unknown Speaker 1:01:30 Well, I have been in many panels, many conferences, etc. I must say that the presentations today I found most interesting, I want to thank you all it was just wonderful. And now I think we should just move into questions, comments, discussion, so. Unknown Speaker 1:02:03 Those who do not want to be recorded, should not speak. This is not you know, this is a democracy. And it's going to be passed on web API. Unknown Speaker 1:02:20 Well, I will I have a few questions. So I will just start by asking some questions and Hadassah, I would like for you to comment a little more among the about the differences you found among men and women farmworkers because I think that would be of interest. Unknown Speaker 1:02:40 Basically, in South Jersey, the migrant that properly migrant is the man those are the ones who each year come from Puerto Rico, to for the season. Women, most of them, they cannot migrate because they are in charge of the children in the islands. So the ones that are working by now in South Jersey, they live there, they have been living there for 1020 years. They were migrants once they migrate once in their lives. They came with their families, and they stay there. And they work. Basically in the packing industry. What they do is they made those fruit packages that you receive on you buy in the stores every day. Don't buy Porto Rican women, their conditions in the packing. I know very good. They have to work since the early in the morning until very late in the afternoon, probably from 10 to 12 hours. Some of them doesn't have a time to launch. They don't have any break in they have to work stand up. There are no provisions in the labor laws to protect these conditions. I don't know if you are familiar with the labor legislation in this country. But agricultural workers are excluded from most of the protective legislation. So as women they also get get less pay than men. And let me tell you that the pay that the farm worker receives is sometimes less than the minimum minimum wage that is established by law. So they are very oppressed. They are also they have also fear to become involved in any kind of organizing. They think that's not their role. They think they have to be in their homes. Some of them have been beaten by the husband, Joseph or coming to a meeting? Because their husband doesn't understand that they have that they want to fight and struggle for the right. Unknown Speaker 1:05:09 Is it very common that the husband disapproves of? Oh, yeah, that's very common. Yes, it Unknown Speaker 1:05:14 is very common. It is also a problem because if the husband is unemployed, it's usually consuming large amounts of alcohol. So, and the woman is very, also she's very fear of saying that she has been beaten by her husband. I once met an old woman who came to a meeting and she said, when I get back home, my husband is going to beat me. And I said, How are you going to deal with that? And she said, Well, that's something common, I have to accept that because I am a woman. And she was about 55 years old. And I felt I didn't have any words to tell her at that moment. So it's very, it has been very hard to organize women, that women are involved now in this committee are mostly young women. Well, all of them are young women. And most of them don't even have a spouse. They are either divorced or, or they are single parents. So they don't have to deal with the husband. Unknown Speaker 1:06:30 Thank you. Any questions? Yes. Unknown Speaker 1:06:35 I worked two summers. And I'm just curious as to what type of women we bring. Doing? Oh, well, we Unknown Speaker 1:06:54 are fixing I had to repeat the question for the sake of registration. The question is, what kinds of women will be involved in the in the program you're setting up at Rutgers University for treating women? Unknown Speaker 1:07:04 Oh, well, these. These association of labor educators, they sponsor each year for regional summer schools for trade union women. This year, the coordinators for the North Eastern school, are myself and another colleague, either Thoris, who was supposed to Unknown Speaker 1:07:26 be here, but she's in the hospital. By the way, that's why she's not here. He's Unknown Speaker 1:07:30 also a Puerto Rican and US Puerto Rican Latina, we want to, we will try to bring as much Latina and black women to the school as possible. The school is directed mainly to trade union women, women who belong to a union. Since the women's being in South Jersey, technically they are this, this group is not a union. It doesn't also have money and the school cost some honey, we we will try to bring them with some money that was left from last year's summer school, and to pay for their tuition for the school. But participants in the summer school are mostly public women in public service. How far Unknown Speaker 1:08:28 is the Catholic Church a general force for supporting progressive efforts? Rather contradictory ago, we saw a priest involved in a refugee camp, we know regular sisters activities, and so forth. In my view, it's something that could be very good both for popular education and specifically oppressed Catholic people. How do you see it? You're respected? Unknown Speaker 1:09:03 The question concerns the Catholic Church in how in what ways? Can the church be a progressive force in these various aspects? And maybe all three of you? Okay, I'll start. Well, in Central America, it has been one of the first forces that began to elevate the consciousness of the people as to why they were being oppressed and exploited. And base Christian communities were set up in the early 70s all over the country in Central not only Salvador, but just about all of Central America, where, in a nutshell, what the people were doing was applying the what they were learning in the scriptures to their real life having practical applications, whereas before, the church had always played a reactionary role. It had always allied itself with the most right wing and powerful interests of these countries. And it had taken a turn right now out in El Salvador, in, for example, in the control zones, women are participating in the liturgy, they have a very active role in the church, which is again, very different from what it was like before where women were considered dirty, you know, unclean, that's the word and shouldn't participate. Women have an active role, and it's through the church that many women in Central America have reached reached the level of conscious political consciousness that they have, and have allowed them to participate in the struggle. Unknown Speaker 1:10:35 That is a particularly difficult question. In my case, you see, the church is really not only the Catholic Church where all the churches are placing tremendous conflict, we service the issues of family planning. So in the case of the Catholic Church, they have to have the position, we have to deal with the beliefs and the dogma of the Catholic Church. However, recently, we have been able to start a dialogue with some of the Catholic agencies, and Jewish agencies and other religious denominations for whom family planning causes a conflict. And we have been able to tie dialogue with some of them. And as a result of that dialogue, we have been, we have been asked by the city of New York, to start working with some of those nations, which have a dual role one as a church institution. And at the same time as a caretaker, for children, for whom the public and the city of New York is responsible for through the foster care program. So we have been asked to work with them. And we are going to start in providing technical assistance to the staff of some of those agencies to help them deal with issues which are of a conflict to them, while at the same time allowing human sexuality, education and family planning information to be available to the various population groups that are responsible for. Unknown Speaker 1:12:44 So that's about Unknown Speaker 1:12:46 all I can say at this time. Unknown Speaker 1:12:49 I just want to mention that last week, there was a rally in PR from the migrant farmworkers Rights Project organizers rally. And for the first time, the Guardian Allah Ponte Martinez, who is the highest representative of the Catholic Church in America participated in the rally. And in fact, he received the migrant workers when they when they were at the end of the rally in front of the Capitol. And right now the farmworkers Rights Project in South Jersey is being funded mainly by churches, Catholic, Episcopal, and campaign for human development. It's receiving funds from the churches. Unknown Speaker 1:13:36 I would like to add two points. One is that Catholic Relief Services gives aid to Nicaragua. The other one is the Sanctuary Movement, which is the current underground railroad. And the nice contrast that you have here is that you have in quotes, law abiding people, and the churches are central here. And they are law abiding institutions in their own way. Helping these helping the refugees who are, according to the law illegal here. I mean, they're illegal immigrants once were coming from Salvador, from Honduras from Guatemala, and they're very active. And the sanctuary movement is, by the way, always can need more people to help. It's very active here in New York, Midwest and on the West Coast. And it really is, it's an underground railroad. That's what it is. I mean, they don't come by train necessarily. Marxist Christianity. Like liberation theology, theology is very important. I think for the church. I grew up in Argentina, where the President has to be a Catholic, where the church is called La hierarchy, the hierarchy just to bring to the fore the fact that you have a core of power at the top and the bureaucratic organization of power. And it is interesting to see how that church that is such a bureaucratic organization has such a powerful pop or core can really have this incredibly progressive function, and that you have all kinds of elements in the church who have been central in the revolutionary liberation struggles and in lending support. You already The story one Scotto came from, no it was Cardinal when Mr. Carbonell was the minister of culture and also a priest came from came through the ins services here when he arrived from Nicaragua to give a talk here in New York. And they looked at his Bible. And he looked suspicious just because he came from from Nicaragua. And they were very suspicious, this might be a real missionary document or something like that. It's subversive document. Now, I think they did it out of ignorance. But there is some somehow there is a tale, it tells a tale in its own way. So I think the church has been a crucial institution, the church is another words, one of those institutions will, the context will matter, it can really, in given context be a crucial force for progressive struggles. And in other contexts, it has been a very oppressive and continues to be a very oppressive Unknown Speaker 1:15:45 experiment. In fact, I think that what you said they were right, I think that if somebody looks at the Bible, right, I think that the Bible is a very revolutionary document when it's used properly. And I think that is that is very important. It is a revolutionary document, which has been subverted sometimes by people, by their people, by the people who have been in power with its interpretation, and implementation, you know, so, and marry Unknown Speaker 1:16:18 now is, of course, one of the best organizations around I think, Unknown Speaker 1:16:22 yes, I'd like to hear more about what we can do. Unknown Speaker 1:16:28 Okay, it's also only somebody from Madrid here, when you change everything in my head, I was at an organization. Okay, why don't we just wanted to address that question. The question is what people in the audience can do here in New York about some of the issues discussed, okay. There are many solidarity organizations here of North American people, and also of Salvador and Guatemala, Nicaraguans, etc. And one of the first things you can do is put yourself in contact with one of the solidarity organizations, one of the strongest, not only in New York City, but I have traveled all over the United States. And one of the strongest networks is the thesis committee in solidarity with people of El Salvador, that is doing an incredible job all over the United States. And also they have a network, there is a network with the committee, nice Guatemalan committee and also with the Nicaraguan in terms of the sanctuary movement, if you can't access this, they can probably put you in touch with some of the churches and synagogues that have been doing this sanctuary work. A lot of it is being done by the American Friends Service Committee. And probably by writing to them, you could get more information. And what they do is all around the country, the churches or a group of churches, sponsor, basically adopt families to come in Salvadorian, what the mechanicals or whatever families to come into their community, and they find them jobs, etc. And it's basically what you said, it's an underground railroad where the refugees are coming in and they're giving them sanctuary. There have been problems. I think it was in Texas, just recently, where few Central Americans were captured that were in Sanctuary. And there's a whole legal process going on right now. But that is one of the ways that North Americans can really express their opposition to what the United States government is doing by not giving, let's say Salvadorian refugees, the the status of political refugees, the North American people's can say, Yes, we consider them as political refugees, and we're going to give them sanctuary through this power, which is the church of the synagogues. Unknown Speaker 1:18:47 Yes, I think another thing we can all do, is to oppose this new immigration legislation that is being pushed by the Reagan administration. When directly affects Central, especially Central Americans, although it will also affect all Hispanic community in the United States. But it's special to Central American people because of the desperate situation in this moment. I think the things are Masoli bill is going to be considered or he's been considering the House of Representatives. And I don't know who the congressman for New Yorker. I think there's a woman in the Congress from New York. She's a Democrat, but I don't have the information of who are the people in Congress, but you should get that information and write letters opposing that legislation. Yeah, well, Unknown Speaker 1:19:47 the thing is to oppose the Simpson Rizzoli bill, that's what it is called there. I mean, it's, it's been a very complicated process to disentangle the document and to see whether it's good or bad at some very, sort of superficial to level it may look good because it will give amnesty etc. But all the groups were really involved in immigration and refugee issues have more or less come to an agreement that this bill could do a lot of damage. There's an incredible amount of lobbying going around. It was presented in Congress in December, and a massive delay effort was organized, which was successful. So there were like 360, objections raised, which would have taken three years to go through. And that was a delaying tactic, so it didn't get approved. Now, a new round starts, you know, those are really delaying tactics, they an alternative Bill has been formulated. And or it's still maybe being in the process of refinement, to create an alternative and the time gained was used precisely to refine this alternative document, the immigration and refugee issue at the legal level. It's a very complicated one. And there are there are no simple answers, I think, but the Simpson Rizzoli is definitely not an acceptable answer to a lot of people yet. Okay, well, one of the key issues that that has received attention is employer sanction this would see it that again, it looks good, why should employers of illegal immigrants not be punished? Right? The problem is that if you pass this kind of legislation, it's going to generate a massive control system, because employers are going to be very wary to employ anybody who conceivably could be an illegal combat is going to mean that a lot of people who look third world who have a third world look are going to be suspect, all the alternative, it's going to mean that everybody will have an ID system, including you, you know, including Anglos. And a lot of people are resisting in on that account, like the American Civil Liberties Union doesn't like the idea, it really then becomes a national identification system, and they'll have information on you. And with the computers today, they can just feed information with no problem. And that's, that's one of the key issues that has generated the resistance. There are other dimensions of it, and one is the a temporary labor program with with Mexico and some other countries, which would not work. And the number of other things that just simply would not work like some of the the naturalization features built into it would probably not work. And we have experiences of other countries who have tried that. Or legalizing of some of the illegals. So you know, it's but one could go on. This is a long discussion. I'm just giving you the main one is really the employer sanctions because it would affect everybody, you see, either through the ID system or through discrimination. Know, this is a big question. But I was wondering if you were just assassinated, or anyone could address the question of the relationship between the export of capital and the Export Processing Zones and being an immigrant situation? Yeah, yeah. Well, that that is a big question. But let me just put it in. In a somewhat more general term, one of the things that I've been working on is to try to link the fact of immigrant and refugee flows with other policies and activities by the United States abroad. In the case of war, like the Indo Chinese war, and I think the war that's going on in Central America, it is rather evident that the United States is contributing to generate these flows of people into the United States. Now, an interesting footnote here is that usually we have received refugees, like in the case of the Indo Chinese, of those who are escaping the enemies of the United States government, which makes the situation really rather compelling theoretically, but also politically is that in this case, the country is receiving refugees of the enemy of the United States government, right. The country well, of the Friends of the friends, right, the Salvadoran regime, in other words, so here we are receiving that, of course, that's also why they're being defined as far as illegal immigrants. Now, the other work that I've been trying to do is to link United States economic activities abroad, Unknown Speaker 1:23:50 with the fact that immigration and that is a complicated issue. But the main idea is that we cannot disregard the activities like we cannot do it in the case of war, we can neither do it. In the case of economics, we cannot disregard the activities by United States, economic actors be the government or private, when we are looking at the fact of immigration. What what makes it sort of to capsulate. A little what makes it rather interesting is that if you look at the those countries in Asia and in the Caribbean Basin that are the main senders of the new immigrants to the United States. They are also the main recipients of a certain kind of export of capital from the United States. That is highly labor intensive, and it has the effect of uprooting and this repelling traditional work structures. Something with you we're talking about Puerto Rico is a key example here. Puerto Rico has received massive amounts of capital, massive amounts of quote, modernization capital, and it has been what up the consequence has been a total uprooting and disruption of those economies and massive migration flows. I'm trying to replicate that same thing for Southeast Asia and the Caribbean. Now coming back to the immigration issue at the level of policy in the refugee issue. What I'm what I am calling for or if the in the consideration of legislation on immigration and refugees, we should bring also on the table in those discussions, other kinds of policies, economic policies and military policies, then at least it will be an informed debate. I think that the objectives represented in the military and economic policies are going to override the objectives that have to do with controlling the inflow of people. But at least it will be evident to everybody you see now there is such an obfuscation. Such an obscure interest debate going on, because the issue of immigration is completely separated from other kinds of issues. And at least what I'm calling for, well, let's put all the cards on the table, and then we'll see. And it will also I think, and this is politically, for me, very important, create a harmony between the objectives of native workers in the United States. And immigrants. That's a tricky issue right now, because immigrants are seen as competing with with, with native workers, and that makes very difficult the establishment of alliances between them. If we look at immigrants, as one of the consequences of that same process, the export of capital that has contributed to unemployment and disenfranchisement of workers in the United States, we get the clearer picture. And it provides sort of another angle on the whole issue of international law internationalizing the struggle besides, you know, the image of the global assembly line, but I think that's the way the debate should go. And that throws light on what is really going on, and it brings the internationalization issue to the front. You so some other questions. Yes, Unknown Speaker 1:26:31 college was always asking sort of about the role of the church. And here in terms of like, the like, must be like, you probably know about some family, Central American refugees in New York area. Unknown Speaker 1:26:45 And a lot of people end up dealing with them, or the voluntary agencies like the Catholic Church, were the ones who are dealing with their, with their deportation hearings and applying for political asylum for them. And in fact, I don't know how much the sanctuary movement is here. But in terms of, particularly in a city like New York, where you have so many refugees, Unknown Speaker 1:27:03 I think it's more Unknown Speaker 1:27:06 you see, on a larger scale, the people that are dealing with it are these voluntary agencies have hundreds of 1000s of refugees who come to them once they're picked up by immigration. And just recently, there were like about 20 Salvadorans that were in the detention center in Brooklyn. There's no money to bond them out. Because there was a revolving fund for a while of these churches had money to get people. I don't know if people understand. But when immigrants or illegal immigrants are picked up, they're taken to a detention center in Brooklyn, that's where it is here in the work. And you have to pay a bond to get out, which in this case was I think, was reduced to $1,500 a piece. People don't have money for that. And the church right now doesn't have money. So that's another way I know that suspects had been trying to also help with that in terms of like raising money to get fun. And then when when people get out, they don't have jobs, they don't have places to live. And another place that I had been working with over the summer that was doing active in Central America refugee work is this place called the Center for immigrants rights, which is here on 96th. Street. And they're also trying to do a lot of stuff on issues like people are interested in getting involved. Unknown Speaker 1:28:07 But thanks a lot. That's good information. Unknown Speaker 1:28:08 Yeah, I would like to make a comment, someone said, What could we do? And I don't have any recipe for that. But I think one of the things that we have to do I have a personal individual responsibility for doing is to be informed enough that we are not confused by the front page of the papers. In fact, I think that if we could put a moratorium on reading papers, right on by the way, we will be so much more educated. Because we have a tendency here at Lehigh time, the way that we it is God the physicians are the New York Times, you know, right? Yes. For example, in relation to health, which is what my area is, and immigrants. During the last few years, there have been a tremendous publicity given to the impact of illegal aliens on the escalating cost of medical care, and the deficits of the hospitals in the large cities. And I suspect when I was deputy director of corporate planning for the Health and Hospitals Corporation, before coming to the council, I look in the bigger issue. And I suspect that based on the little bit of information, I got that a lot of the inefficiencies of the medical ot acute care medical care system are now passed over and said all of these escalating cost and most of these deficits in our hospitals is because we are providing this fantastic health care to people who are illegals. Well, I submit to you that if one had objective data, one may find that the person 10 fish of the cat that goes for illegals, which is responsible for the deficit is really rather minor. And in fact, one of the things that I found, through conversations with people in the in the different municipal hospitals is that one shoe away in which they had less than in case of pregnant women, one shoe away, which they had to verify in their heads, whether the person was a poor citizen, or a poor illegal alien, was the pregnant poor, illegal alien, most of the time had finished paying for the price of the delivery before the time came to deliver. Because they are so concerned now they're so scared that they have a big bill from a big institution, that is the route that he's going to be found, to put them out that they go through great efforts and great hardship, to try to put the money out in front so that that route could not be found. And so I have recently, for example, the, and I have to be careful. But recently, the new legislation that was passed in Albany, in relation to new funds being available on the Medicaid program, it has some nice features. to it, it had some new features for prenatal care, which was through the efforts of a very high level coalition, headed amongst others by Carol Bellamy. But they are these two pieces in there, which was surprised that some legislators who were supposed to in that prenatal care package had to pay. And he surprised that was put in, and that is sold as helping the poor. And one is the increasing fees to private physicians. Because it is said that if you increase their fees on the Medicaid, they're going to come to the low income areas. And of course, the best care is the one that can be provided under the owner accountable. On monitor care in the private physician's office. And the other was a big chunk of money for the emergency room of the hospitals. And any money that is put into hospitals is a bottomless pit. And I think that one of the things that we can do is to become more informed as to where in fact, our dollar is going for health care, which together with the Defense Department is the most responsible for the escalating costs in this country that in the last 15 years, there's some estimate by some responsible people who say that of every dollar that you're putting into a private physicians fee, our 10 or 15 cents, go for new services to poor people. And the rest goes into the into the part of the Unknown Speaker 1:33:02 provider. So I think that one of the thing that we have responsibility for doing is as individuals become more informed about the various issues and not to take for granted, what the bill of rights that we are sold on the front page of the papers, including the New York Times. Unknown Speaker 1:33:20 I was wondering how you most organizations are don't accept grant money, don't accept tax dollars, because their political commitment to Central America. And I'm just asking you, in general, in a way of helping or what Foundation are in kind services are committed to organizations that are doing political and relief for Central America. And that's kind of where they get their money to me. Unknown Speaker 1:33:51 How have you been? How can they Unknown Speaker 1:33:52 get their money? And how can we search or who well, it's just amazing to see what because the amount of money that are raised by some of these organizations are significant. I mean, they're not significant compared with the big corporations money but in terms of, of what they can come in, and a lot of that money is really small quantities donated by UEFI. The same of literature's fundraisers and so like CES, this is going to be happy if it can raise $5,000 when it runs this huge banquet for 300 people it's a labor intensive way of raising money so that the little money one can give does help. And then there are other like the American Friends Service Committee, who controls many more resources has been an outstanding kind of operation in this whole refugee and immigration scene. They're also very active role immigration issue. And they are they're just wonderful people and that to be mentored. I'm sure that many of you know it. Then there are some organizations who managed to get grants for one reason or another. The Ford Foundation under its new leadership, by the way, has given money to a number of very good projects and large amounts of money like $300,000 $400,000 and that's very good to see. So don't give up on the Ford Foundation. And I don't know, maybe you have additional information to provide. But Unknown Speaker 1:35:03 the other thing is to separate. I think that the way in which you quite often, we are victims of the way in which we define the problems or present our programs, I think that we present our program together, saying, political activism and relief work, we are getting into trouble. I think that is hard enough to obtain forms for political activism, I think the important thing is to separate. And I think that relief work in a very broadly defined way, is a very bona fide subject, which could receive funds on their tax exempt laws, right, first thing that one has to do is to try to separate the various activities, and to try to scrutinize your organization organization and see which one of your program components fall on the delay legitimate definition of nonprofit tax exempt status, which relief work is an education and, you know, all of the even even voter registration, if it is nonpartisan, can be conducted on their tax exempt status. So it's a matter of being very careful in how one defines the terms and what terminology one uses in defining what programs and separating out? Unknown Speaker 1:36:20 That's very good. Yeah, I think that that's the Unknown Speaker 1:36:21 strategize a little, Unknown Speaker 1:36:22 I think we're just about at our time, I don't know if there's any other particular questions that somebody would like to raise. And I am circulating a sheet of paper, just to pick up those who are interested in maybe doing some relief work or voluntary work, etc. So just put your name and address on it. Yesterday, I did want to say something. And that's something that you had mentioned before about the economic factor, and that many people are against sending military aid to Central America, but they say terrific, you know, let's continue sending this economic aid. be weary of things like the Alliance for Progress that has basically uprooted our economies, our people, which in turn has caused a lot of the unrest, which then causes it's very simplistic what I'm saying, but there is truth to it. So you have to really look at these economic programs in a very discriminatory, discriminatory fashion. The other thing is, what can we do? Some Congressman once told me that for every letter he received, they counted as 60 letters. Letters are very important to the Congress, people don't think that you don't have power that you can't do anything. And what does one person mean? That means a whole lot you mean 60 People on election year, especially during election year, which leads me very quickly, there is a company that are being held in jail right now in El Salvador. And these are postcards all we ask is you to put a postage stamp sign your name and send them one is to President Madonna. And hopefully we'll be gone soon. And Pickering we don't want yes that's it and if you have some extra that you want to take to other people Okay, thank Unknown Speaker 1:37:58 you to all I mean, I've Unknown Speaker 1:38:24 changed and I know exactly the product because it was never getting back into shape right that's what I was saying. Yeah, so Unknown Speaker 1:38:44 that wasn't the plan to sell machines. You did the actual video let's see you can see that you're in record mode which is little red next to the battlefield. Some machines they have take and then they have monitor and monitor mean the good news is of course that that Hello, hello hello hello you ready? Ha the switch. Unknown Speaker 1:39:54 Okay. You usually find Unknown Speaker 1:39:58 right All right, like, you forgot to plug in the tape recorder? How many times have I done that? You know, there's just one. Yes, I won't give you those, those are two, I just grabbed that pair. So this this kind of thing. The explosive sounds are usually going out that way or this kind of thing, they're going out that way, if it's possible, if they're speaking at a podium where you know, sometimes that those podiums, there's like a mic stand like this, you can point it drop down at them, while they're standing there with their paper, like this. That's nice. That's real nice. But nothing directly in front, directly in front, it's asking for trouble. Also, if they move away, there's different things I do if they move away. If there's another woman speaking, I turned down their pot and adjust it. But that's assuming that you'll have two microphones at your session. And I hope that women who haven't ever done this before, don't get to my rather their session. So they only have one thing to deal with. That's my question, when you have two microphones where you get one on the left, one on the right, right. And then you have to play with adjusting both of them and say this one woman, you know, y'all kind of like me, and then this one other woman, so she has her down with this other than me, and you'll see an extra, that's a great way to record two people talking because when you go back to put it onto the reel to reel, you'll have two separate channels that you can like, change and adjust to make perfect, you know, on each on each and you can mix it again, onto the onto the tape so that it sounds real nice, blended wise, that's a real nice way to move to people one on one, on one or the other. I think I liked that. You can boost the level, if it's too loud from the one woman and the other woman you can you know, flow or whatever, as you put it down to the real all this is going to come back to this patient because yeah, you'll hear, you know, me screaming and it's one or the other woman you know, I mean, that would be how it would be. It's not like great. Okay. Yeah, and it'll say and also i A lot of times I forget channels, but I just use them. You know, if you listen, that's the most important thing. If you know that the your level looks okay, but you listening and Assam been up it, you know, and if it's not, if it's but don't episode, it's like a story. But you say yeah, I tell it kind of little Lalo you know, well then turn it up. Yeah, that's just the main thing to remember. Or, yeah, it really hurt my ears when they were screaming there. Yeah, well, then if it hurts, you're turning it down. You know, this, is just use your head, use your ears. They start dancing around the room. Somebody said two weeks ago, you know, like they were supposed to be around these might suddenly decide to dance alert to say, you know, what do you do? It's like, Well, I think I'll move this mic here. I'll move that use of common sense. You know, it's like, how can you try to make him you know, and don't panic. If they decide to dance around the room, I would turn the mic before. A lot of times you know, they decided to do something weird places that I'm the teacher of says. So you got to say okay, now we're sitting in servo. So how am I going like a circle situation. And those kinds of things, I would try to get a chair or a desk and put it next to the main speakers who are doing some discussion and point the chair or the desk down towards them or say they're going to go round room and you're going to need to get every woman who's in that circle around the room. Another way you could do it if you only have if you only have one we different kinds of like one has a pickup sort of like the key is to sort of like your mouth goes this way to directly when you talk and after that when first call us for microphone and the main area where it is allowed in and then is a book that's called a directional microphone. This is directional microphone, as it's that that Natalie's holding up as a directional microphone. The sounds that are closest to where this Unknown Speaker 1:44:46 is the loudest and over here. It's gonna be not too loud and they try to get rid of noise that way they try to get rid of external sounds. It's we're close miking people talking and what's rational microphones are useful for We're close to Michael's account. If you want to ask directly, we don't want to call him or may not want to probably thinking, well, maybe we just want my voice and not the sound of the fire engine. Yeah, it'll pick that up the loudest, it will pick up that fire engine, but the fire engine is going to be right direction. Or, I might, I'm gonna get a bunch of other kinds of microphones called omnidirectional, which actually are one more quarter to one when they go out to take a team because it takes up all of that. And when you're in the middle of something like you know, the fire or whatever you want in your hometown you I had a person you know, saying that with all the town all over the direction I was, you know, every if you're looking at the microphone here, it's gonna be loud all the way around it Unknown Speaker 1:46:04 right, so if you're gonna go out Yeah, that's a directional microphone, this is directional that, we will get some picture inside a new direction. So if you are in a situation where you know we're going to put the circle to talk with Byron sometimes do so be prepared that might happen right? Now a year or to walk around, say, I'm touring circle time here, I need a noun. And put down me try to get the circle as small as you can put the, you know, I'll make it close to the middle as you can, and turn around and try to get everybody confused towards the microphone. You're not working together to say, Hey, do you want anything? That's the wrong way to do this kind of situation? And if they say, Unknown Speaker 1:47:12 No, say no. You're gonna sit here I'm talking to them right or wrong. Unknown Speaker 1:47:20 I mean, sometimes you get a choice and you get a choice. Let's open up. You know? Right. Okay. So, I know a lot of information for some women who have never done it before. For some it's like, okay, well, you know, but that's like the basic steps. That's this is really and it only gets more fun from now on, you know, once you start doing music and you go out to record the fire or you go out to Florida when the stuff is great, you know, you bring that out and you go out you try to and this is the thing that Judy says, if something happens, that you might say to them, maybe not most exciting thing that happened, hire that you know, somebody read the paper. You know, a lot of these women they write these great, this can be for nothing. And then at that, you know, so that doesn't make good radio. What makes good radio is when the woman stamping his foot and saying