Unknown Speaker 00:01 little bit of trouble and, you know, trying to break in this morning to this afternoon because basically, I found that the assumptions that I have about technology, the analysis, Unknown Speaker 00:13 and the policies Unknown Speaker 00:15 weren't really covered. And I didn't realize that I don't hear why should use assistant stay, I think in a way as a metaphor, in a metaphorical way start to develop an analogy to help them and think about this, when you begin to use your to question certain kinds of things that have been done in history, such as working a lot with a prisoner in public private split, and so forth. And that, you know, that may be an interesting direction, but I can something that's almost, I mean, I work in almost an opposite direction, which is that I've really worked with ecology is a metaphor until it comes about ecology commissioners perspective, and I think, in humor to the morning, and I would be very close to being a Luddite. I mean, probably the closest thing that you're gonna get to being alive is this conference. And I do and by that, I mean, I do believe that they're liberatory technologies. But it's not totally clear to me, I don't think we've exactly figured out what are feminists were deciding, which are, which are the big. And the I think that the women against high technology, who were presenting the videotape at lunchtime today, really working on looking at the safety of high technology, technology, which I think people may have seen the report and so forth. And so what I want to do is talk to you, I'm going to read a little bit. I want to I want to basically conclude this, I don't know if people are sort of squatting and my friends are squatting in the court. So I don't know if we should I know some people may want to be doing what you're not supposed to be doing. jumping in and out additional work. So you people can sit close to the contact question. Yeah. Yeah, okay. It's okay with me. Okay, people, people from the Women's Center want to take this workshop, which is alright, if you may. But I said that I thought that I wanted to ask other people here in the workshop, how they felt about going where they were comfortable with. Unknown Speaker 02:34 Is anyone uncomfortable with having? So what I really want to do is try and starting from what I've said, you know, that I think I was really just may differ sharply with Donna hairline when we started into this discussion last night at a cocktail party never really changed. It'll take a long time. And talk about the perspective that my work sort of goes out and and talk about what I think some people expect to hear about in this workshop. It talks about feminists resistance and creative forms of feminist resistance to what we can probably agree upon of disruptive technologies. No, we don't. I think that the kinds of things that I'm going to be talking about resistance, we could probably sign general agreement or technologies that we don't want whatever I general position is on, on technology. So I want to start with stuff I like reading through a couple of quotes, which helped me as I began to think about your thesis which set out and worse many of you read and she says we've been perceived for too many centuries is pure nature exploited, like the Earth and the solar system. Small wonder If you now want to become culture here spirit mind, get us precisely this culture and its political institutions, which is switched off from itself. And so doing it is also split itself off from life becoming the death, culture, quantification, abstraction, and willpower, which is the most refined destructiveness in this century. It is this posture and politics of abstractions which women are talking of changing, or bringing into accountability of humans. And the other is from a book called the dialectic of enlightenment, but we're not meant for comic Theodor Adorno. This is that, when we became the embodiment of the biological function, the image of nature, the subjugation of what constituted that civilization titled for my lynnium in terms of acquiring absolute mastery of nature, that can converting the cosmos and warming, one immense hunting down. It was to this with the idea of man was geared, more male dominated society. This was the scene medicines abuse and his products. So I'm going to try not to read too long. But I'll I'll kind of show you this is from a paper that is appearing in a book called The Sheena, Sheena Juniper perspectives on technology which is coming up this printing carbon money first of all human beings are natural. That may seem like an obvious statement yet we live in a culture which is founded on you today Kenyan domination of nature. This has a special significance for women because in patriarchy for women are believed to be closer to nature than men versus women a particular says in ending the domination of nature and healing the alienation between human and non human nature. The hatred of women and the hatred of nature are intimately connected and mutually reinforcing. In the project is building this Western industrial civilization, nature became something to be dominated, overcome, maybe serve the needs of men. He was stripped of her mystical powers and properties, his beliefs and the magical powers of nature will relegate it to the clash of superstition, the progress of rationality, nature was reduced to natural resources to be exploited by human beings to fulfill human needs and purposes was defined in opposition to a dualistic Christianity was ascendant at the early demise of all goddess religions, paganism and animistic belief systems. Unknown Speaker 06:37 With the disenchantment of nature came the conditions for unchecked scientific exploration, and technological experts to exploitation. And this word is that when a man comes from a larger work called feminism in the reinsurance world, so we bear the consequences today of beliefs and unlimited control over nature and in sciences ability to solve any problem and nuclear power plants are built without cages for waste disposal or satellites into space, without provision for retrieval. In this way, nature became others something essentially different from the dominant to be objectified, and subordinate. Women who are identified with nature have been similarly objectified and subordinated and patriarchal society. For men, raping women can be cultured to psychically you're born of women, independent of her non human nature for Smith parents, is frightening. The process of objectification of making women and nature others to be associated and dominated is based on a profound forgetting of their own naturalness. And this is where I would see what Donna Haraway referred to this morning as white liberal men trying to identify with animals in nature. And I can understand in a way why this is it's a funny thing. It's laughable, you might question some sincerity, but I think it's a that's actually a positive development that could actually start to happen, man could start to recognize around that. But that would be a great help in terms of the ecological situation we facing the prospect of nuclear annihilation. And they forget to say airborne and women and dependent on women in their early helpless years and dependent on non human nature all their lives, which allows first for justification. And then for domination. Deny part of Man has never fully obliterated the memory remains in the knowledge of mortality and the fear of women's power. And you see the space that kind of fragility of gender identity, what if, what if one of which surfaces when we see proofs about women and men are challenged and the sexes depart from their natural so called natural rules. And I think that the opposition to the not very radical, equal rights amendment can be partially explained on these grounds that this, this sort of implies that women could enter into traditionally male male areas that they should be, you know, sort of, it does something to blurred gender identity, and that's part of what makes it so threatening and part of what some of the really strong opposition and more threatening or homosexuality in the gay liberation movement because they name a more radical truth but sexual orientation, not only sexual identity, but sexual orientation is not indelible. Nor is it naturally heterosexual lesbianism particularly which suggests that women can be self sufficient, reminds men that they may not be needed, and men are forced into remembering your own need for women to enable them to support and mediate the construction of their private reality and public civilization. And, honestly, it's something that various anthropologists have worked with this question about are women dominated or subordinated everywhere? And does this does this have any correlation with attitudes toward nature within a given given society and a different feeling But Sherry Ortner asked the question this way, what could there be in the generalized structure and conditions of existence common to every culture that would lead every culture to place a lower value upon women. And her thesis, she says My thesis is that woman is being identified or he will need to be a symbol of something that every culture devalue something that every culture defines as being of a lower order of existence itself. Now, it seems to me that there's only one thing that would fit that description, and that is nature in the most genuine wise sense. And so she says, she says, women are situated between the two, the nature of healthcare, and the defining nature and opposition to culture is also resisted, resulted in the defining of healthcare in opposition to life, valuing life giving content and life itself. Unknown Speaker 10:54 So I think that I'm skipping over some things. But I think that the recognition of this bridge like position between women and nature of women, between nature and posture poses basically three possible directions for us as feminists and making this argument. I'm not saying that women are more natural than men, that's really not the point that you could see, to be posted in there for certain reasons that have to do with what we've done, and how we've lived our lives and so forth. And what we want to make of this, I think it's a good question, do we want to repudiate that and say, Look, we're more not no more natural than men, we want into a culture making activities defined against nature, that's one possible direction, the integration of women into the world of culture and production. And this the problem for me with this position when you start trying to take into believe that some of the roots of denomination women and nature are similar is that it doesn't if it doesn't challenge your question, nature, culture dollars in itself, and it doesn't really make it possible to bring ecological concerns in determinism because if you swallow that idea, if you make part of your smuggling away Trojan horse sign, you know, that's nature culture, opposition to your feminism, then you become unwittingly part of the problem and occurrence, you know, when you end and I think that that's really the problem, and that's something that most liberal feminists have certainly done, I think, my socialist feminist opponent today to sort of talk broadly about it. Um, and so, so that for something that is the severance of the woman nature connection has been seen as a condition for women's liberation. Other feminist is built on the woman made the connection by reinforcing that women in nature, the spiritual, intuitive, versus man in the culture, patriarchal rationality. But I think there's a problem with this position, too, which also does not necessarily question nature culture dualism itself, or recognize that women's ecological sensitivity and life orientation is a socialized perspective, which could be socialized right out of us, depending on what we do with our day to day lives. I mean, we could learn to be as bad as. And there's no reason to believe that women placed in positions of patriarchal power will act any differently depending on whether we can bring about a Feminist Revolution without our conscious understanding of history and a challenge to economic and political power structures. And so what I'm gonna suggest really is a third direction and this is what I've been calling, because while recognizing that the nature culture, opposition is a product of culture, we can nonetheless consciously choose not to sever the woman's nature connection by joining male culture against nature, we can use our bridge life position as the vantage point for creating a different kind of feminist culture and politics. transforming them that nature, culture opposition itself, we're overcoming that and trying to and using that to envision really a different kind of work and certainly different kinds of technology from what we have now. So I think that ecofeminism contributes to an understanding of connections between the domination of persons and the domination of nature. And ecological science tells us that there's no hierarchy in nature itself, but hierarchy in human society is projected onto nature. In other words, the idea of the great chain of being is a human invention. And it's been used to justify a hacking more than human society to say that there's a hierarchy in making or something like that in the modern social guy. probably familiar with it. But um Unknown Speaker 14:47 that's one position and another kind of principle of ecological science, unity and diversity. I think it's useful for us to think about political diversity in nature. We know it's necessary 10 And one of the major effects of industrial technology, capitalist and socialist has been published occation of the environment and several species of life disappear from the Earth every single day, every day. And, you know, we watch these debates that go on and how they come about, is a certain scale worth stopping a dam project, and they're framed in the most absurd kinds of way. And then usually the ones that you hear coming up, but but really it doesn't, it doesn't get to what may be a more spirit, what's what's a practical question in that, if the environment becomes too simplified, it can't, it can't support him in life, if there is some kind of almost good quality of life question, but to mean that a certain whole species are expendable. What's the criteria for workstations are worth keeping? Which ones is findable? I mean, it's really, it raises a whole question. And then what the way that capitalism uses this environmental simplification is it simplifies culture. Not everybody has to be assimilated, and he just arrived. And that's what works best for marketing. There's a whole kind of impulse toward a simplifying human community and culture. And I think we have to really resist that social sophistication at the same time looking for some way to have a universal community of women. And so I want to say I think that this is the conclusion religion and eco feminist culture and politics, which is based on some of the ideas that I barely touched on are is beginning to emerge. And oral is a form of direct action, which is taking direct action to effect changes that are immediate and personal, as well as long term structural. I think direct action includes learning holistic health and ultimate ecological technologies, asking questions about technology and resisting deadly technologies as part of our feminism. Living in communities, which is close and new forms of spirituality, that celebrate life, considering the ecological consequences of our lifestyles and personal habits and participating in creative, creative public forms of resistance. And this sometimes involves engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience to physically stop certain kinds of machines and to stop the Pentagon. And the kind of fitzer theory doesn't convert sort of simply or easily at the practice. And, but I think that many of the women who founded the feminist anti militarist movement in Europe, and here in the United States share the kind of eco feminist perspective that I've outlined here. And for the last three years, I've been personally involved in developing and working with deterministic universe movement. So I have served with firsthand account and a lot of other people here who I know, have worked with this movement as well. So basically, there's going to be something like this, which is the connections between violence against women, a militarized culture and the development and deployment of nuclear weapons have long been evidence to pacifist feminists. But eco feminists like myself, whose concerns with all of life's inhuman understanding of the connection between the domination of women and the domination of nature, are now beginning to see militarism and the despoiling weapons industry as the most immediate threat to continued life on the planet. While the ecological effects of other modern technologies may pose a more long term threat. In this, in this manner, resist militarism have become a central away after most eco permanent and long just development, I think many of us have accepted the analysis of violence played by pacifist feminists and have been and therefore began to creative nonviolent direct access. And resistance is the basis of our political practice. And I think that we're trying to address both the militarization of culture and other words, we have an argument drafted here in case the grammar schools are taking small girls and small boy, you know, we I've been out there taking a neutral number of Boy Scout troops, a disproportionate number being brought has to show them you know, look at the glories of the military, this is what you're supposed to do. They get to see it, the times they get to see all the weapons, there's no blood anywhere in any of the movies. I mean, you know, it's not a real depiction of what you really get. But I think that that's one example of the militarization of culture. I mean, all sorts of cities that have a coastline getting around battleship, so that when they stopped doing duty to the military can certainly Unknown Speaker 19:38 apply brainwashing. And so they're finding a new years rather than last fall in there. And then then I think that if we're also concerned with the middle of the economic priorities reflected by our enormous defense budgets and women's social services, and I think together these posed risks to us Read and then threaten our lives even if there's no war and none of the nuclear weapons are every year. And we tried to make clear the way that women suffer particularly the warning, spoils to victorious on as refugees, as disabled and older women and single mothers who are dependent on women social services. And we connect the fear of nuclear annihilation with women's sphere of male violence in our everyday lives. And the level of weaponry as well as the militaristic economic priorities, a products of a capitalist system that relies on violence at every level. So I want to say really, I want to summarize, specifically the directions that I think of politics of resistance to these kinds of technologies. And I think that this is where something appeared, the title, the power to create the power to resist. And one is that I think we really need to develop a strongly woman identified culture and politics, which draws on the life affirming aspects of traditional female socialization in which provide us with political outlets, that is with avenues for making public some of our so called Private reaches, and for bringing some of the symbols and imagery of the private sphere that have a certain you know, power for all of us into into the public world. And I think that motherhood, female religious imagery, and lesbianism all sources in life for this woman identified culture building, and then we can talk about, you know, each of those in whole different ways. But the second is, I think that our feminism has to have a creative, visionary, utopian kind of quality, non hierarchical, valuing diversity, living in harmony with nature. And I think that's what you know, people really, you know, people taking up architecture, designing tools, doing all kinds of different things is, is really a part of that. And I think the next thing is that we really have to figure out some way to work both in a decentralized place and a real place that we really live, but to build some kind of bonds between women cross culturally, and globally. And I think another thing that those of us who work with the so called pro life feminist perspective, I mean, I was involved in organizing this conference on women in life only about three, four years ago. And when people told me months later, or even years later, when I ran into them, they thought that this was an anti choice guy, when I first heard the title that they thought that this was an anti choice gathering, you know, that it was some that finally there was a feminist, anti abortion organization, you know, and at the time, we knew that some people might very well do that, but and we had a whole long discussion about whether we could even use a term like a pro life ourselves. And we decided that we couldn't afford not to, but what we really couldn't do was give them that was the word and that all the meaning that they had, and that we really had to begin to take back and set some things straight. I mean, you know, about what feminism really is. And what it's really about. But it was it was, it was really interesting to see how totally co opted certain kinds of ideas and things it does their pro life, and we are anti life. It's a really absurd, absurd, absurd kind of position. So I think we can't really fit we can't back down in any situation, even trying to make Coalition on issues of sexual freedom. I mean, the role of a woman to have an abortion and the right of a woman to express your sexuality in whatever she makes whatever way she chooses, to feminism. And I think that we need to talk about lesbianism is a connection between and among women and lesbians have a powerful experience of women by men, which is important to all women. And that we need to develop empowering, imaginative forms of feminist traction as part of the reconstructive resistance movement. And I think that we would like our political action, somebody a non hierarchical, personalized way back. Well, labeling all the issues. We, we connect, we asked when we after the particular issue. And I'll just give you a couple of brief examples. Basically, I think Unknown Speaker 24:30 I worked with a group called the ones Pentagon out chain and we've tried to bring these different things together and sometimes successfully, sometimes with difficulty in trying always get all your bases on everything can either be a strength or a commitment, terribly frustrating, difficult, but I think sometimes we do okay, and sometimes we don't. But one thing that we did do was when there was the 1982 disarmament demonstration in New York, people remember June 2014. We were trying to figure out how in the Men with this one issue, very important major issue, but how could we give our get our feminist perspective across and I think that ways of using public space theatrically visually imaginatively are things that we tried to do. And we came up with a theme that a feminist world is a nuclear free zone. And we've sort of we had a we held the global lock and had a whole bunch of different things that a feminist wall would be all kinds of banners. So if you saw this prophetic procession, you couldn't, he couldn't have missed, you know, in a feminist world, it's been a feminist world. I mean, there were there were serious ones and playful ones. There's free choice everyone has enough to eat, there was no carcinogenic, you know, I mean, we went through a whole bunch of different things. And women in in California surrounded the Bohemian Club, which is a male on the playground for corporate government and military elites. And, and I think some of them were arrested, and they were able in the in this way, and doing a theatrical action there and kind of doing a parody of what went on inside to call attention to this kind of a Bastion, and the women's Pentagon action. I don't know if I'm gonna skip over this. Do people know about the women's Pentagon action? Okay, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go through what we did and how we did it. But basically, I think there's, there's one example which some people may have heard, which ISIS me, but I think we were doing, we're doing something, right. It's something that's particularly effective. And that's the, that's something that happened to some of us, I guess, in our in our second women's Pentagon interaction, which was that a woman who had never been before politically active, she said, and they've never gone to a demonstration or gone anywhere, had come from California to be part of this afternoon. And as we're getting ready to leave in the morning, and people who are getting their campaigns and put out the organizers, you know, who likes to think of themselves as visionary imagine, is tied to a little crush. And he was this woman was very insistent that she wanted her to take her returns done. And everybody could say, No, as we started this last event, you know, I mean, somebody else must have written it down. There's lots of overlap. What if she says, No, I really have to have my, you know, I really, absolutely have to have and I've come to California to place this particular cancer at the Pentagon. And so, humoring her can we could all right, well, you know, we'll, we'll find that people looking at each other within about 15 seconds. And I said, Well, what does it say? And she said, it says, For the three Vietnamese women, my son killed. And every case was stuck, you know, at that moment, and, you know, we looked at her and she looked at us, you know, and we really knew why she did. And, of course, we found her too. But there was something about her both being able to make a political statement and lie at rest, what was like a private pain and turn that into a public political statements and what a lot of that was really, I think, something of what we were trying to be about and make possible for people, you know. And, you know, I think that more recently, I thought one of the women from it's totally uncommon. Unknown Speaker 28:18 Well, we I also Unknown Speaker 28:19 want to give you a couple of examples, people know also that there's been a women's peace camp in Europe that they're now 36 women so Canton isn't in Europe, it's in England, right? That they serve it, yes. And that there for them that are all women's and one of the one that's probably best known as a greener and people know that recently, the women's women's surrounded the base and 30 or 30 to 50,000. Women who went all the way around that day, a lot of people who engage in civil disobedience, and there's been an ongoing women's peace camp, and the woman who was there, women from Greenham are here now and they'll be talking next week on this one woman who was talking with us last night gave us a wonderful example of the kind of even small actions that they can do. And she told us that they had I guess it's part of Easter, they have something like a bears picnic. I don't know to some British person that I don't know. But that this is but so evidently, all these women dressed up went and bought fake Fern, you know, I mean, here they are camping out of this space, and dressed up in bears, and they all went to different kinds of bears. And now and and invaded today, you know, and so they did the small actions we don't hear about all the time to just sort of make things make it a little more difficult, difficult for the military to carry on businesses. And so knowing that there's like current like honey, some of the women coded themselves and honey, and if they were going to do their disruptive activity, the the guards would map over them and let go. They had a terrible time processing then some of them gotta manage to take a sort of a cultural event and figure out AAA has turned it around into a really playful, surprising activity and to even fix it so that it was ingenious in a way for the end was hard for them to even be arrested. And so as an example I heard last night, people have what is really a kind of imaginative, playful, evocative action. And that's sort of at the other end of the spectrum, from working on government pot from working, it's in a different place. It's a different location of political action than from working on, multi, you know, transnational policy committees, and so forth. And it's not that I don't think that that's wrong. But this is a whole other kind of possible location numbers of people. And I think the imaginated quality, and the the women had green, and when they surrounded the bed, really well into the fence, all sorts of artifacts of their personal life. And when they took certain things from the Pentagon action, we sort of did that too. But we ended up with this little braid that was lying on the ground, you know, which was really quite beautiful when everyone left, but it never had the visual effectiveness of what because we didn't have that they had this great sense to say, Well of all these things into them, and they was like the teddy bears with their children and different kinds of things like that. And it made such a statement in a way that was emotionally evocative. And I think it's a lot of, it's that really, at some level, it's not only a kind of analysis that we needed some sort of macro level, but it's also ways of really mobilizing people's feelings about life, imagination, and so on, in the sense of the alienation and deadliness of all the questions of scale, I think, make that kind of politics, absolutely essential and essential to feminism, to give to both validate feelings provide a way out, you know, even mobilizing away people's feelings, and imaginations. And I think that that's really got to be an aspect of making some sort of transnational resistance to nuclear weapons and promote tourism. So I don't open it up to people to make comments and come up with examples of talking about this morning, this afternoon or whatever. Because that was very fast. I hope it makes about two thirds of this. Unknown Speaker 32:19 I have to say, and I think my problems are rooted in the fact that you say nature to be essential position. And I guess, I guess I could do like heroin. And the other thing is, you know, the oppression of women, Unknown Speaker 32:52 to me, goes back Unknown Speaker 32:56 almost to the beginning of time, it just seems to me, at least, and yet, the enlightenment, which is rather recent, was the thing of dualism in his class. Well, why didn't I? I mean, I Unknown Speaker 33:18 think that you're, I'm really interested also in having everybody be able to talk because I think people have been read to all morning. So I mean, I'm gonna respond briefly. I don't think that I would know, I don't know that I would say that nature is good. And culture said, I mean, there are all kinds of it's possible for culture, different cultures have different attitudes and ideas about nature. I mean, it's not, I wasn't, I don't I don't think that that was really that's really my position. And what my point is really more that, that human beings are part of nature, and that there's a certain part of the problem in terms of the deadly and destructive technologies and industries we've developed, I think, is a real denial of that. I mean, I don't know how else to explain it. I mean, why do we, why do we have these things? If there's really a full cognizance of our relationship to the rest in the natural world? I mean, that's that's really basically my point. I mean, it's probably a longer discussion but I don't I don't think it's it can be simplified from it nature's nature's good culture is bad and well, I got I got that from you in talking about the domination of nature but I think it's much more I think it's a much more I guess I'm not fear Unknown Speaker 34:42 word control paper, Unknown Speaker 34:47 which was about getting used to research. Unknown Speaker 34:52 The whole notion that we were that what we needed was more food. And what we needed was more heat. So we can use on your record. And the fact is that both of those notions come out of the idea of control and the control of nature, which you've been tracking the achievement, because for most for most things like the fixation of nitrogen insect control and so forth nature is in fact doing it. And since my DNA researchers if we in fact, control our own destiny, we will create giant Skylab which requires the constant input of human control and where to keep running it's extremely dangerous and I think that that we're out when I when I come out in terms of feminism and ecology is the whole notion of control being what's the nature isn't a question of nature before that but whether or not ultimately the control of nature the absolute control of nature is thought of as good as it seems to me that the dominant culture has the absolute control Unknown Speaker 36:13 add a little attack with an example I've been in Seattle I've been an anthropologist 10 year library and teacher becomes a threat to be reckoned with and really will give me the money this isn't as politics but not to get any money you have to figure out how good they are but this is what's happening today and some people prefer the United States Unknown Speaker 37:06 and so Unknown Speaker 37:08 what is steady is what is done and what our culture is and you can you go to a university binary wherever you want to go study what you want unless you're wealthy get grants Unknown Speaker 37:41 What's up this will be no more complicated Unknown Speaker 38:10 I'm not a swim coach alive yeah, I think I think people understand what you're saying it's not I mean, I Unknown Speaker 38:51 I mean, I guess some people might even find it some sort of solar I've heard this also said that sometimes the right people win Unknown Speaker 39:17 notion of militaries that we're going to control. Unknown Speaker 39:21 We only do is control what we don't actually we don't control it to mimic what we attend to. Unknown Speaker 39:30 That it limits when it comes to the Reagan limits I Unknown Speaker 39:45 agree with 740 protected about what I mean, I think you can take it back as far as you Mind Unknown Speaker 40:02 manipulating Unknown Speaker 40:04 is a lot of concepts are trying to imagine a tiny human being still pretty much it seems fairly obvious a potential that we can and in the book that we all but only says civilizations Unknown Speaker 40:35 started learning how Unknown Speaker 40:37 to for when members don't stick together. And that's kind of an example in my mind Unknown Speaker 40:48 a directory Unknown Speaker 40:51 which of course has to include responsible direct managers. Manipulation is also performance. And it becomes manipulation. And again the only way that our parents Sure, there's a lot of parallels. mythologies and legends the time when women they fly on a design stone that is already destined to be a lot of evidence was originally. Unknown Speaker 41:53 So what I'm trying to say is that that step of learning how to stick together the creation of a generation progresses. And I did talk about that radical understanding Unknown Speaker 42:16 it also shows that the culture is not male and MIT men decide when Unknown Speaker 42:32 and that's what we learn in universities. And science and technology was subjective, and therefore can't be sexist. Gender oriented to work. determinate really I think. And we don't get restricted. We check the letter that shows good. Try and be aware of our cake and eat it in real time if you don't get near that as an activist, Unknown Speaker 43:52 I struggle with that Unknown Speaker 43:54 all the time the park system will be prompted by I think there's something really important about the grassroots pendants, petitions that Unknown Speaker 44:04 are talking about taking place. And I think Unknown Speaker 44:06 one of the most important things about those Unknown Speaker 44:08 is not even so Unknown Speaker 44:09 much the effect they happen to have. But the the sense of power the people themselves who are doing it. I think there's a healing Unknown Speaker 44:20 energy in the system and you who works Unknown Speaker 44:22 within institutions, knows how it's very hard to do anything. tremendous sense of pain, a lot of compromise or dealing with have to compromise constantly. And it's not an accident that people can meet the women who make it in a system of Unknown Speaker 44:43 people like Patrick. Unknown Speaker 44:46 I just don't know if women can get into Unknown Speaker 44:48 that system and work their way into a place where they finally have power hours that they can put in are going to what is the decision making place? So I think the grassroots think It's really cool to see I think symbolic captures that I have a sense of humor with afternoon Unknown Speaker 45:38 I see most people who take part in actions like that, I may not, I think see it as part of a process that people aren't. But see it isn't enough is having some importance on its own empowering. I think that people who do take part in actions like that, understand that there is an economic structural kind of power system that it's somehow some, at some point in some way has to be addressed. You know, it may you may be suggesting what is really a different strategy, from what someone pointed out, I don't really feel that we usually Unknown Speaker 46:35 that's when you really need to practice. Just Unknown Speaker 46:47 don't give up on the lesson? Unknown Speaker 46:54 Well, I really think it will be. I don't think there's only an analogy, but in 1978 I was a person who was a little girl never went to demonstrate, I voted for Deco. And when, when I read about three while out that the government is new control industries and control the responsibility. So I said, let me go somewhere and do something, I don't care. If it doesn't work, I have to do something because you don't have to win or lose, you have to go in the right direction. That's enough. So I found a bunch of kids downtown someplace who wanted to go to dark wire and demonstrate against shores and get points. And so that's what they were going to do. I said Well, it sounds kind of silly, but not while I'll do it one day my little rock over the thing and I put my time in jail because I couldn't give my name check the other people I could to time the teacher and I am allowed civil rights arrest but others did. So we have solidarity and COVID stuff. And I said to my policies it's not going to work today Congress just was in the nuclear industry it's been Delta flow like West but I love the way the Unknown Speaker 48:28 Supreme Court on economic grounds Unknown Speaker 48:38 I think there's a lot but also in terms of Unknown Speaker 48:41 things not that static. I Unknown Speaker 48:42 mean, I think the threes campaign has benefited to use an example of something that's gone right into the legislative electoral politics and tried to use that toward a certain end is really benefited from the kinds of actions that you know smaller groups have done so called symbolic action there's a relationship between these Unknown Speaker 49:04 two. Was a weekend and they were heavy. To the point they would happen it's also good to Unknown Speaker 49:41 know was what is the thing they decided that that strategy that they have had said, that is put the right people in office? And I think they realize there's a difference in that. How do we talk about it? Unknown Speaker 50:00 You know, I partially agree, I think somebody has talked about power. When I said, resources. I think we have to talk about power. Unknown Speaker 50:14 I mean, no matter, Unknown Speaker 50:16 you know, you put the right, the right people in on one subject. We have talked about the structuring, of how of how power is and how, you know, do we want that power? What is the alternative vision? You know, and can we use that alternative vision to find the power? And the power? What kind of power? Are we talking about doing one? Well, you want? I mean, you want this kind of stuff in why we want to add some resources divided evenly. What does that mean? To have? You know, I guess that's the question. I'm gonna say Unknown Speaker 50:58 one thing, the power, we have brainwashes children, Unknown Speaker 51:02 as I have done with my 30 year old, Unknown Speaker 51:05 ecologically sensitive, Unknown Speaker 51:07 people have tried that in his backyard, my parents tried that too. Basic. But what I was gonna say, see what, I tried to cover a lot of it, because I felt like this morning. I didn't feel like my workshop get set up by this morning as panelists, and I was trying to figure out some way to bridge that, and I covered a lot of abstract territory, which may be easier for people who are used to do or who sort of know this, some of it or read before, but what I would put our time and lead up to it. This is an idea that women potentially and I mean, I mean, women and all sorts of different places, can potentially be, I think, a culture of resistance. Precisely because, quite precisely, in part because we aren't assimilated into that power structure. I mean, we certainly at the moment, aren't going to make the Charge of the Light per day on the on the 90, you know, on the 1%, with a 99% of the wealth. I mean, we know that's not what's even practical for us to do you know, that's a real question, and what are the sources of our power? It's another question. And, you know, where are we located in terms of all of these sets of values, and prices and all of that, and, you know, I, myself am really informed by the fact that women consistently are, from my point of view better on all sorts of life issues that are about the environment that are about, you know, questions of health and safety, over economic growth and priority, you know, all of those kinds of things are nuclear issues on all of that and to ask, why, and how do we develop that and exploit them? What does it mean? Or what are the forms of action that are appropriate to that, and that's what I'm really interested in is women as a, as a culture and movement of resistance and ways to make connections between lesbian women, mothers and traditional cultures, women who may be in church type of organizations. And I've realized that this isn't simple and nothing to say it all just comes together and when greatest sense of mass but that it's there, if we can find ways to do that, I really think that this is the only hope for life on the planet. And I mean, I realized that that is a really radical statement. But as I see it at the moment, that is the most likely and that's that could be called the sky, it's more of a vision than a strategy in a certain way, but it's at least saying that there's a certain that that's really what I think a lot of a lot of my thinking is predicated on and I don't know if that's a vision that other people here share that you think it's possible or not possible or what and I would really like to see us be able to do that and move into sort of move on in our thinking in ways to draw on our outsider viewpoint on some of the things that that are some of the good aspects of traditional female socialization Unknown Speaker 53:59 and to do something with that, Unknown Speaker 54:01 rather than to hope so quickly to get into the power structure and do it on male terms and in a way it's and I'm including the left Well, I think I maybe that's something other people should. Unknown Speaker 54:26 What aspects should should be emphasized what traditional aspects of women should be emphasized and balancing. Really mobilizing them as a power force, where from where we draw power within the culture, certainly childbearing healing women as always. We should practice Unknown Speaker 55:07 Oh, we should feel, though. Unknown Speaker 55:12 One thing that strikes me, I thought the way you said he was saying you should avoid. Yeah, and thinking which is really, I think, a skirt perhaps. But anyway, we looked at what positional aspects. It's, it isn't ever either nature or Unknown Speaker 55:38 always. Unknown Speaker 55:40 So when you say teach a child, that is both nature and culture, that child comes with a whole natural body. And mother, and other people also have smallpox viruses nature. It's never, and I think for a mother living with the child, it's always both resistance and respect. And there's no way that one exists. Inability to be nice is one thing, the other Do you have any either you go to college, or you read teddy bears. But I keep the strategy, that's not the case. But if people Unknown Speaker 56:36 are having an enormous Unknown Speaker 56:38 effect on the political party, on the options they have chosen, and they're creating culture. In many of our part, we have to try to see what we can make that kind of optimism that delivers, you're finally getting the other sense of Unknown Speaker 57:08 what? incorporating more people into action. See, how much more effective Unknown Speaker 57:50 if you get one of the two major Unknown Speaker 57:51 parties that will affect the doctor physician, as Unknown Speaker 57:57 well, much more effective. Could you do? Unknown Speaker 58:01 That? Yeah, and then, in this country, I mean, there's a relationship between these two goals. I think I think that's the I think that's from my point of view. The problem was, you know, it really is I mean, and I think even the era people, I mean, there's, there's an argument about what the era strategies to do this morning, some people think they should go left, when you know, that they should drop off and those horrible men, women in their places. I mean, that's a bad idea. But then there are other people who's really saying, I mean, that may be an aspect. When I get a lot of people aren't. Yeah, but I mean, they're, they would be talking about specific, I mean, I think there was a split in there. And some of the people were very specific kinds of candidates. And then on the other side, you know, there were a number of people like Senator Johnson, you know, who really thought that they should start hearing more civil disobedience type actions, you know, in the fashion that they did in Illinois and the power that that was that had, it really doesn't work that simply that there's this there's the there's the structural attack or the cultural attack? Unknown Speaker 59:12 Yeah. Like I was not making a sequel. Instead, images have to be quite complicated and sophisticated. In something like that Unknown Speaker 59:34 was the I think, I think people I mean, I felt like the others are feeling our way our feeling our way, you know, in a way and I do think that the relationship between the success of the threes movement, I mean, if you want to look for something and it's like contrary you know, the fact that you know, how far that's gotten is really related to the way that people doing civil disobedience and more symbolics and say anarchistic type actions, the relationship that people benefited from measuring something to take on both points of activity. So I think that right now people, I think that what women are trying to do is even develop a different way of doing that to act. And the facts in this match I think there's some of there's a plan for a peace camp camp Unknown Speaker 1:00:24 where Unknown Speaker 1:00:26 people will be, there will be a lot of women in one place, hopefully a lot of different clients and we'll be talking about how you know feminists business for future and strategist issues and so on and so forth. And Cynthia is also the site I mean, it isn't an accidental person because also the fact that the purging missiles are being sent to Europe and the Europeans are demonstrating against the Persian missile so those things can be going or going wrong and one understand time and calls attention to those Persian missiles and it calls attention to people in the United States that they come from a real place they don't just materialize in Europe they're made here and sent from here and stored here and and I think that it it calls attention to it gives it a place and a location and a real flesh and blood to people who could who actually demanded the worker to make the change and do it and so on. So hopefully some analogies different kinds of things can be happening at the same time it's not if there's ever a movement if it's something like a strategy it's more of a strategy in a traditional sense my developer can understand the passive resistance Unknown Speaker 1:01:41 and the people who are willing to Unknown Speaker 1:01:49 allow on I mean I wouldn't look like jelly to go I couldn't not not enough people do what they want to joining us a lot of training about brainwashing got my own. That's number one. And when I wasn't regulated that's not what I'm saying Unknown Speaker 1:03:36 is. Don't be late. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Unknown Speaker 1:04:05 I have a difficulty with feminist claims that are couched in androcentric terminology, and concepts and male oriented paradigms. I'm very uncomfortable that we thought the best that we can do is to deal with concepts like power and strategy. No one has mentioned education, except in context of your own child. And I think when you're talking to women as culture bearers, that one of our great responsibilities is to transform the curriculum, and to bring into the curriculum. The sense of what is just and moral and decent and environmentally responsible from the very beginning. Each type of curriculum is is redacted. We've done in the context that male expectations of what the app is going to be. I was amused to hear someone I mentioned my colleague or classmate Jean Jordan. We went very different routes within that fine and, and yet one would value her contribution as a member of United Nations.