Unknown Speaker 00:00 During the session open to all of us for discussion, it's actually okay to do restore review of the kinds of things that I've been thinking about and working on. I've been teaching women's studies for about a decade, and I've been taking lessons towards the toolbar two years on the lesbians. And my hope is, workshop a social function, a social function of civility is to try to provide some understanding of the dynamics that we find ourselves under wrote in ourselves is different and being proud of that. And in seeing that it's also the instrument of our oppression and how that fits in to the construct that we could call heterosexuality or civilization or social reality. There are lots of names for it, and I'm sure that we'll get to talk about that in more concrete detail as we go. The social function then, of the taboo, under which some things are simply not acceptable, nor are considered appropriate for study, for example, right here at Barnard says students are having a lot of trouble and instituting a course and lesbianism writing to Brooklyn College, we're equally having lesbians who were told something's not appropriate for academic study, go home, you can do that in your bedroom. But this is where we learn real trends. This is where we do important things in that university. So the function, it's very clear to me that the function of the university that the way knowledge is produced, where knowledge is created, the way knowledge is disseminated has something to do with what we think of as reality. And as lesbian, I know this is left out my reality, they have left out reality in many ways, but certainly I know from my own experience, that they thrashed me out. So therefore, that gives me an edge, which, with which to view the kind of knowledge that I'm taught in university, the kind of knowledge and math teaching university. And I know, I can know if I can trust myself, I can trust me in life, that a lot of it's wrong. And I have to ask why, why is it wrong? What are the things that it does do is it sets up divisions within myself? What can I trust? What can I trust? And so that division between me and other people, too, it sets up the notion that there are there are vast differences in humans. And we become wedded to those differences, which then perform a function in the society, what is the function of all those differences? In society, we've managed to do a lot of talking about different today. But we haven't talked very much concretely about power and oppression. For example, we haven't talked about how those differences are used against people. Unknown Speaker 03:05 There are two key we could talk about your sentences without taking the value on them, saying one is better than the other one is worse than the other and see what we come up with. We may, I don't know where we come up with our questions are different. But what we do find in looking at what we hear history is that not much of the reality of us licensing the reality of the lives of lesbians is hidden. It's denied. It's not there, it's not in the sciences, accepted a deviation from some presumed norm. So when I know when I look at history, is the history is a construct made up of ideological notion down in such a way that they're put on top of reality in a way that hides a lot of reality, recently in history has been an attempt to show that women really did help with a war, or we compensated by doing X, Y, and Z, which they didn't think we did before. They deploy with interns that history have been defined. And then they see if they can uncover a little bit of women doing what men did. And they call that some people call that women's history. It's kind of beyond that definition of women's history to see what has never been before and what really holds the world together. What is the work that women have done? Where is it gone? Who's appropriated it? What does it look like? And even question the terms that come out for describing and defining what we think of as history. It's kind of a bromide to say that history is going in and wars. And that what we need to do is look at more than that, the left has provided us with a good critique of that we need to look into what people are doing, what the social forces are, we know that but if we assume that when I have to center. There, we know that history is all centered. You know, the history is simply a minority perspective over here on the side. That's what's been said to us as our view of the world based on that view of the world and we haven't heard institutions, we have a network of institutions which we call civilization, that the material force of history and civilization has the function also of maintaining those taboos and maintaining those divisions, because envisage, envisages no other alternatives. So when I look at civilization, we are looking at a very coercive system. Another system, which is designed to maintain divisions among people, and to maintain them at the expense of certain people based on a hierarchy, with white males at the top and black lesbians on the bottom. And I see that the work, and the vision and the energy, the creative energy, the sexual energy, of those of us who are disappeared from history, has apparently gone away. It doesn't seem to be feasible, it seems invisible. In Africa, where has it gone? Where is it gone? Who's using it? What's happened to it? Have we given it up? Or has that constituted the kind of unrecoverable, unthinkable notion that has made them enriches made us crazy, or turn us into silence? When we talk about silence when we talk about craziness, we're talking about what Audrey Lorde just mentioned that the unthinkable the unconscious, psychoanalysts have devised a model of the human mind, which mirrors model of interior with civilization, with the rational white male ruminations on the top and the chaotic, the primitive, the darker, the emotional, the child, white people, and nations on the bottom. And that's just like this model of the human mind with the unconscious, the super conscious or the, or the conscience, and ego shuffling in between up and down. Because those models are so similar, the model is shifting the model of the human mind, that leads me to think that our entire notion of the unconscious, is the repository for what has been repressed and suppressed. In history, and I'm using history as a construct, which is different from and laid down on. Unknown Speaker 08:12 Vacation is built on what we see when we talk about reality is a political construct. By political contract, I mean, symbol which is made up it's constructed. And it's political, because it deals with relations between people. It places as mediators in these relationships between people make the things look like what's important and hides the people behind them. And it has, it carries power in the male sense of power relations of power relations of dominance, and suppression. So if reality is a political construct, then we can see that the definition that we use within that reality are only part of the truth. How I define myself is never just up to me alone, in a social context. It if I am slave in a social system, I have to have a master or I wouldn't be a slave. If I'm a master, I'll be a slave or I wouldn't be a master. If I'm a daughter, I need a mother. Those terms that we use are relational. And they require the cooperation of the entire society to exist. And I would suggest that as we look at definitions, both of ourselves and other people, we begin to look at who's cooperating to do what I pretty clear. Nowadays I think, that a flame is not somebody with inherent characteristics of slavish does not have a certain kind of brain does not have a certain kind of logically determined behaviors, I would suggest that the same could be true of other socially determined identity and that male and female Daiken are socially determined identities, which we cooperating by acting out and by seizing and accepting or by denying what the requirements for heterosexual life are, we see a system which is so insistent on building the mutual dependency between men and women with men on the top of the bottom and nothing else is allowed. So much energy train on making that an exclusive workable system that is shaped by what is less innovation toss off and doing good is running the system. So, what's running the system, sexualities? Interest is running the system. Violence is when he fires developers function, though depends on who just Unknown Speaker 11:36 pointed out a long time ago that without constitution, the institution of marriage could not be sustained. I would suggest without homosexuality in the institutions of heterosexuality in the family could not be. Unknown Speaker 11:57 What is that, in fact, from the inception of human life, who is at the center is woman who postulated that the man is at the center of human psyche, at the center of the family and at the center of civilization. Without going into a great dispute about Floyd, I would like to suggest that in fact, the first person that everyone loves is the mother. It is we're going to talk about the Mother Child relation as a patterning relation as Freud did, that the central person that we have to look at is not the father, but the mother, that this is true for both male and female children, and that both male and female children can grow up with the dynamics that we learn as children, with a mother at the center, acting out what society calls male or female, and that we can do it. The question is whether we're allowed to do it, the function of heterosexuality is a function of it to keep us from doing that. Why should this be doing that? Well, look at the systems that are sexuality, what I see is that not only are women depending on men, I see that men are dependent on women. And that that's a great pity secret, that comes our own jokes. It comes out in coffee classes, you know, everybody knows you get a bunch together, and they're what are they talking about? Everybody knows that men are babies have to be taken care of, couldn't do anything by themselves. Everybody knows that the successful criteria for being a woman in heterosexual assistance is what you support in there. You think that he's got the ideas, and then you really do all the work. But it would have been participating and hiding the fact that we are holding everything up underneath the structure of history that is presented to us by male historian as history, they're holding everything up. They're hiding what they do, and they're participating. We're participating in our own oppression. And many of us are very good at getting out of it. You know, we didn't want to do that. We want to do something else, which is more important, good and strong. And we get into the we end up participating in a different way. Buying somebody else's terms for ourselves. Changing. Women is still at the center of that what we call it. Anthropologists doing research in a Greek community two years ago, found a woman who gave her an answer she didn't understand. The Greek woman said oh, she said we don't just keep men around for one thing, you know. The colleges did not understand that comment. And because she thought that the men kept the women around for one thing. Unknown Speaker 15:08 He said to me if any of the things that I've been saying, out of my experience are shared by any of you with your true in that sense that is not validated in the libraries or in the books or out of our lives, they make it make sense that what we think of as reality, is also a myth. And what we need to do is begin to depend upon our own bodies, our own senses of the world, our own experiences, what happens when we come up against what is functional and dysfunctional in our lives, to uncover another set Unknown Speaker 15:50 of reality Unknown Speaker 15:54 that that is there, it already exists, that the world is ours, that we simply need to repossess it. I don't mean to make that easy. I don't know how to do it either. But somehow, I'm going to be more willing and ready to act to do it. If I feel that that is my world, and they're messing it up. Rather than thinking I guess, in my whole life, and changing your mind about it, which is going to be very difficult to do. Unknown Speaker 16:25 What lesbian culture is doing is he's calling for radical transformation and vision is calling the rat conquer radical transformation of concepts of power, how we empower ourselves. Moving away from concepts of force, coercion, and male definitions of history and culture, to a more erotic and spiritual empowering, that women can give to each other. I'm going to stop now and ask for some feedback. And also perhaps give the give us some chance to talk about some of the questions we might have had from the presentations during the day. My parents Unknown Speaker 17:34 often homosexuality, and no, I'm not I'm not offering or suggesting it, I'm noticing that it did. And I'm seeing that since it exists. And since I can see from that point of view, I can see from a different point of view than someone who thinks that doesn't exist. previous question about changing the structure Unknown Speaker 18:19 was Freud suggesting infancy he noticed when he described that patriarch, a patriarchal description that said that men grow up to marry their mothers. Right, I'm not advocating anything, what I'm doing is trying to say, this angle of vision, I'm confusing somewhat differently. And I see a mother at the center in a process of developmental of development, development of the human psyche, which places women at the center, in fact, I would suggest that everybody marries their mother. Unknown Speaker 19:04 I really have even a theory. I didn't understand all the time, I sort of gathered that theory and that loss itself is developing heterosexual model in some way. And I went, I'm wondering. Unknown Speaker 19:30 Yeah, I think that what we're coming up with is a notion that male and female are constructs that are producing on reality without regard to what is possible or what is real. And when she says that lesbians are not women, what she means is that we don't act in a heterosexual prescription of what people without phalluses To do that that's the premise underlying your question. Now, would you ask your question again, Unknown Speaker 20:08 I'm really concerned with how cyborg theory is. What is it about cyborg theory? And how do you articulate? How can anyone articulate? Unknown Speaker 20:27 Maybe other people could help also, the first thing that I would say is to reiterate what I just said, which is that that psychoanalytic theory as it has to go from three Insight has played man at the center of society as a reflection of patriarchal power, without denying that patriarchal power has a lot of material force in his culture. And I mean, literally coercive force in this culture as well as that which grips our mind. I would also suggest that there is another reality simultaneous in coexistence with that reality, which is hidden, and that is that women are at the center of the development of psyche. The second thing is, that I tried to suggest is that second, we'll just posit a conscious and an unconscious. And it feels to me worth exploring. To assume that what has been repressed? What goes into the unconscious with these unrecoverable with these unthinkable? You know, that's always the first question, when is it? What do we do there? It's inconceivable, what is unthinkable is that area which was not perceivable by patriarchal psychoanalytic theory, putting them at the center of theory which develops after the enlightenment, with its division between the mind and the body, which develops after the Inquisition, which eliminated eliminated the material and the spiritual power of women from the 12th and 14th century, by burning witches, as witches, healers. The women who were perfect and roamed the continent in Europe during that period, and who were sheltered by women, bonuses, or who were gypsy or migrant women, women who lived it as stable men, members of their communities who have the knowledge of Earth, healing medicines and spiritual force. They were they were exterminated, and what was instituted in its place at the same time the nation state came into existence, why the Academy, the church, and the profession, political, legal and medical. I think that those things are background to the development of sexuality theory, which is simply psychoanalytic theory is simply a focusing on the notion that there is an individual mind Unknown Speaker 23:28 which is developed in relationship to its environment. And so it's reflective of those values and my making sense. What do you think? How, what would you say about your own question? At this point? Well, Unknown Speaker 23:56 I just I have a theory, if you take the logical conclusion of psychoanalytic theory, Unknown Speaker 24:00 which is that our first Unknown Speaker 24:02 love and our first intense awareness is of our mothers, then it would seem to me that for females, if we never go through that differentiation itself, the obvious conclusion to that was having to remain as a go up. But I think the model itself is very heterosexual. I think it's based on the idea that somehow revenue differentiate and differentiate into a male and female sex describes the process and writedowns but it doesn't describe Unknown Speaker 24:40 Do you want to say a couple of words? Unknown Speaker 24:42 Well, I just I don't, I don't relate to the process at all. I just got even not even taken with doing away with the whole idea of ideas. Well, Unknown Speaker 24:59 even you even dealing just Unknown Speaker 25:00 with that. I'm not Unknown Speaker 25:03 even just doing away with that. It's still something I'm not, I'm not feeling Unknown Speaker 25:14 you could be more specific it but it's risky and what I'm asking you about your life Why do you want to do that? Are you talking about Toyota model this morning, let me offer a critique of that, it seems to me that what she was doing when she talked about the differentiation was way back to development, his idea of gender identity, she was saying, shall we be like our mothers, or, or, or not. And obviously, we can do like our mothers, it's not so hard to do this with boys who have to throw away from your mother's blah, blah, blah, what she was dealing with. And what's absolutely crucial to deal with is that we do develop relations with other people. And we dissolve the relations of the people to meet desires to express ourselves that their whole system of of exchange and communication of energy and sexuality is part of that development. And that's you didn't talk about if we're going to talk about, in psychoanalytic terms, the love object, which I again, question, you know, the values of that term, we'll have to insert a whole nother dynamic that she didn't even deal with, and maybe that's something related to what you're trying to get at, it certainly would be for me. Unknown Speaker 26:44 Do you want to say anything about what how your experience was, was different from what the feminists are trying to do? Well, Unknown Speaker 26:52 I just, I think that I really Unknown Speaker 26:55 love my mother. Unknown Speaker 26:59 My mother made me less, I think that I became a lesbian variety, very different kinds of social relationships. And I don't think the injection was my father making you from a lesbian. And I think that even when you when you use psychoanalytic theory in a different way, you're still getting back to the same time and basic concepts, and the Sci Fi and getting back to the same time space concepts that are that are put on people in therapy. And another thing that I think is Unknown Speaker 27:29 one of the things that bothers me, the very first thing is, after being criticized for years, I just feel that whether you're in or not on, everything seems to get back and laid on. Whoever you are, wherever you are, when you're having to do. Everything relates to whoever does for six months, or whatever. And it just seems to me off too simplistic. And it's not taking into account all those relationships that one has further on the relationship. And at that point in time, it just is too simplistic to really live in a castle, Unknown Speaker 28:15 I think perhaps with simplistic about it is that she isn't looking at the mother agitated, you're in a patriarchal power construct. But she is acknowledging the power of the mother. And both things are true at the same time. So perhaps we don't have to throw out all of the insights that Denise brings to us, but how we would use them and what strategy would we would take from there might be different. For example, there is a major strategical question that arises after reading, do steam, about term care? Should we now struggle for men to raise children from infancy upward when we know for the most practice, that they're incapable of adequate measuring? Just positing that kind of gross terminology because that's generally what it comes down to? And say, Well, yes, because the children need the role model of men and other women. So the only power that women have number one, number two is going to mess up the kid. Number three, we have to make sure that there's a feminist control over this or it's going to be just reproducing a worse situation and that is causing a disease. So extensive data does help it is contributed to the regression of divorce and childcare movement. We really don't care where is it? Where's the split the throughout in the women's movement today for child care, it is practically paralyzed by this kind of questions. And they are a junior questions. They're real questions, but a good tip that I would offer this is not that the mother isn't the powerful one at the time, but under What condition? And what can we do to make that nurturing relationship? One which is not harmful under the conditions that the mother has to endure it, as well as under the conditions that the child has to endure it right now it's built in for repression. And using a woman as a police agent, if you will, for this and that hurts her. And she doesn't really talk about it have. For me, Unknown Speaker 30:44 the verb to have blue Unknown Speaker 30:46 means to prevent change. And I think, for me, living in a male world problem with it is Unknown Speaker 30:55 if you are Unknown Speaker 30:58 18, and you're nine years old, you don't have to change can remain the king and remain nine years old. I think of myself enjoying and embracing my lesbianism has been an enormous change for me, and seeing the kinds of pain and pleasure and I'm all kinds of coming alive, that this has meant if I look at taboo it functions to prevent pain and change and indeed life. Unknown Speaker 31:40 Good to meet the purple shirt by the door Unknown Speaker 31:52 I am not quite sure what's on the books. Unknown Speaker 32:07 Feminism context was basically the argument. She said, You know, we were just intent is there isn't the energies that are held back by it are no longer necessary. Explain how I can explain or anything else. One of the things that we as feminists could do is Unknown Speaker 32:50 that we could use Unknown Speaker 32:54 you or anybody else here in terms Unknown Speaker 32:56 of what we Unknown Speaker 32:58 were talking about, and maybe some of the rest of you who read this book and what I'm saying, or correct me if I'm wrong, was that the material condition? The sexual patriarchal family had been so undermined by capitalism, which is pulling women into the workforce, at the same time that it wants women to absorb this and individualize the cost of the family, and childcare, rearing and reproducing the workforce, but it's pulling women into the workforce and into the so called public arena, in such a way that the structure is no longer necessary as a unit. So which one wage earners wave support several people. And that if the structure of the family material base is removed, then the ideological base which generally doesn't hold as they should call the superstructure, which comes after in her terms as a Marxist and it depends dependent upon the material in her terms is removed, then we can create a new human psyche. Now, what we're doing is calling into question whether or not that very orthodox interpretation of 14 is an in combination with a great orthodox interpretation and Marxism is an adequate strategy to rebuild. Yeah, we want to come in we're winning Unknown Speaker 34:52 misuses. Unknown Speaker 34:54 And I guess I don't want that because I think that will be similar to this, isn't it? I want to show Unknown Speaker 35:04 how we can express without using Unknown Speaker 35:16 terminology that is preventable. Unknown Speaker 35:20 expressing the unthinkable does not mean going into the unconscious. And if I Unknown Speaker 35:27 had to I was there, you know, three times. And those are all different parts that are subdivided off Unknown Speaker 35:39 last construction and what we're talking about living Unknown Speaker 35:50 and also the god is large. Unknown Speaker 35:54 And I don't want to use rational and irrational approaches and whatever kind of nonconscious to display. Unknown Speaker 36:04 I don't want to talk about how the merrier. I don't quite get the impulses. Literally. I'm raising. Unknown Speaker 36:21 Yeah, I think that we're all raising those questions. And we have the same difficulty this why Adrienne calls for a new common language as origin as diplomas as a practice. I mean, if you take a look at lesbian culture that you've seen call for reexamination of the mother daughter relationship and sisters get your new language those. Yes, before you. Social and pre EQ can be so completely Unknown Speaker 36:58 to both the individual if you put her or Unknown Speaker 37:02 handed especially her I want to Unknown Speaker 37:05 say a woman and teach your profession and all the social structure because Unknown Speaker 37:12 the Secretary is a typewriter. In some of the major thing I used to be the teacher at a minor school and I had to go to the world Unknown Speaker 37:20 change summit style change. So I know that Unknown Speaker 37:24 the outside especially to work for us. So incredibly accurate form, you're always behavior as far as being a lesbian. When I was 2018, and 1962, I, quote unquote, came out and a new Western University. It was a nice man in those Unknown Speaker 37:42 days, I saw all of us, right a few of us that were always Unknown Speaker 37:47 open about it to each other. We were in an atomic selfie, we're eating and so forth with bandied around. We were running to psychiatrists, today a key 20 years. 15 years later, also led oncology care campuses. In other words, the same people completely relaxed. And happy with it on. Friday, we asked today how to gain liberation your university practicing a PhD in the world. I don't mean make Unknown Speaker 38:30 it hard for me to see how I mean, there's a real president, if I may use the word against the types of psychoanalysis in this room. And yet at the same time, in our adult lives, we're talking about how open we are to social influences and how much how other people react us, shapes who we are. And so it's hard for me to see why there's so much resistance to what psychoanalysis has to say about the way in which as children, we are still shaped by the people outside of us by our relationships with the people who are important to us. There's no question that a lot of what psychoanalysis does is really screwed. But I also know what speaking just out of my own experience, and that as my friends that it's been enormously useful as a tool used consciously. Go back and try to sort some of that out and to try to go back and see some of the ways in which I carry around inside myself. The socialization, the ways in which I trap myself and don't let myself do things out of fear that I learned, you know, as society's means of keeping me in my place and the tools of psychoanalytic thought and mechanisms of looking inside myself to sort out what is real and what is learned and therefore potentially changeable. Or man And do we cut ourselves short and deny ourselves a potential tool when we just say, Well, no, that doesn't work? Well, it's all true. Is it possible to say that? Yes, we need to learn how we learn the payment system in our head and enacted and reenact it until you bring it up into some sort of conscious examination. Without having to say that the only way to do that is as well as a whole body of classical psychoanalytic theory, I think that what you're saying is not inconsistent with the questions that people are raising. It's certainly true, I think most of us that we we can see ourselves asking out our mother or mother in relation to our Father, our Father in relation to a mother, a mother, or father in relation to our sorcerer and all of that, unless we can do it all we can do it all. You need to find find those things. Oh, they are immensely useful. I would agree with that. What we then use the glue it together is a question as well as the language that represents any one of those discoveries. Again, and again, it helps to put whatever the thought is, in this current patriarchal society up above. And if you can remember, I mean, the problem in psychoanalysis is that it's posited itself as universal, as opposed to a very specific study, fueled by patriarchal values of a patriarchal society. But as since we're all products of that society, to an extent it has, it's true Unknown Speaker 41:45 that we're working with this tool, because I can keep coming to this, we're very different in temperament and the first process and what is going into the multiple put into there. And to lay that kind of burden on the mother child relationship, regardless of the two of us that school of thought there are other schools of thoughts and different ways of shaping society. But the kids come in differently to Unknown Speaker 42:06 a knowing subject of the mother having control. Over their shape is different from control. Having influences to Unknown Speaker 42:15 that, I think we're overworking the tools of methodology, whether it's important whether it's initiating tool, there are other tools. Unknown Speaker 42:41 Which is what he was saying about poetry, and the uses of the erotic. And how well I reality, though, is that history tells us the world is being run by the patriarchy. But the way that the patriarch during the world is appropriate, the work the energy, the sexuality, of women, and in a hierarchy, and then they do it himself, too, with man and certainly with the nation. And that, and that also exists that so the question is how to transform the power of the oppressed? Political, the political powers that dominate the controlling real force that the most important thing in the world are the political power in the hands of men? Are you working? Are you the woman who's working with the political Unknown Speaker 43:55 political power in the hands of men, the only way you're going to Unknown Speaker 44:00 put that power in the hands. I think that's an important thing to be doing, as long as we live in a society and they can take away the children of lesbian mothers, for example, who are the same time that Greek woman who is working to maintain that village while the man is sitting down in discussing the politics and the anthropologist or society with the need for a political center of power, because men are hanging out down there drinking and living up here, right? Who's running the place while the women are really holding it all together, doing work and, and maintaining the life sustaining systems of that community? So I you know, I hold both things in my mind at the same time, and I don't think that it would be appropriate for to cut one out or the other we have to work on all fronts. It seems to me that if by some miracle, which is unimaginable tomorrow Well, you know, we woke up and and women control the world, you know, they were charging the economy, they were in charge of the politics, they were in charge of everything. Honestly sure that we would turn around in recreate something that looks a whole lot like the world we have right now. Because we carry that world and ourselves. And it's going to be an immensely difficult and immensely painful and immensely long process that every woman has to do for herself to do one, it talks about bringing slavery out if you drop by drop, and it's really that kind of process has got to come to that we don't think in our IP, what was Unknown Speaker 45:46 that? A break, it is no longer problem reality that Unknown Speaker 45:54 will put you denial Unknown Speaker 46:05 suggests that it's deliberate, then that you're implying a dynamic of resistance to something which is occurring, and that both things are true at the same time? Why is it so important to resist? Whatever it is, is occurring? what's occurring and why why is it being resisted. Unknown Speaker 46:26 If you put out power, there's real power in Unknown Speaker 46:31 it different thing. And I think that the denial is Unknown Speaker 46:36 most of the confusion. Unknown Speaker 46:38 And in a way, it's like finally talked about Unknown Speaker 46:41 when you've never lived up to Unknown Speaker 46:47 the idea that we live in time that has an infinite capacity Unknown Speaker 46:52 to absorb politically, Unknown Speaker 46:55 to absorb them as a Unknown Speaker 46:59 part of the fabric of the society and and thereby diminishing Unknown Speaker 47:05 their power. And every level, every political Unknown Speaker 47:09 potential political power in time. Value of Unknown Speaker 47:37 the blacksmith. Nowadays people say that discrimination is less than reality is that slack still occupies a certain place. So once you die, you have the time Unknown Speaker 47:58 to turn away, and CO opted by McAfee whatever. And then the definitions are on the line, or in the common line are the ones who try McAfee right now. And so this will shift and shift the reality to come five years and our ability to define the earlier cells. Unknown Speaker 48:21 If we're depending on them, when they do all that if we weren't doing something different now. And then until that both things are true. At the same time, one of the things that we're doing now is we're taking the power to name we're taking the power to define ourselves, and to define reality and to create alternatives, which is the most threatening thing if we can create alternatives for women in this society. We don't need the political system to tell us we can do it. Unknown Speaker 48:54 I think there's some probably creative alternatives in the society and an economic system that will deny those alternatives and we can just remove those alternatives. So we have to do some kind of thing where we deal with the power structure and also create the reality to do it all at once. I mean, nobody ever said it was gonna be easy. No, I'm not. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 49:17 anybody ever did Unknown Speaker 49:19 that? Yeah, it is it is to do and how to how to stay alive on a day to day basis how to function and between yourself and daddy is already a problem. You're not supposed to be here. And instead of telling it that the ideology to construct new institutions was denied so long, they say long mistakes. They made a mistake. They say we're mistake. This is divine that every day and to be in places every day and to function every day is our wedding. More than we're expected to be able to do Unknown Speaker 50:00 Oh, yes. With young people I happen to teach in southern where we have seven kids. Unknown Speaker 50:16 The white kids allege that this is my choice is on it. Unknown Speaker 50:23 Katie racism, the same thing in spec is to illustrate some gays, everybody in our communities, right? Certainly all the students and teachers, that's right. Because if they want to be fired, no now they're in is one thing that's been happening is really changing. It's helpful. And that is in the arts. There are books of poems. And people that speak out, there are books like my sister's. I hear our sister saying, no more masks and other books, and read and find out their own private positions. I think it's crazy. The difference between public and private public stuff, changing private stuff. And that is crazy. But I think in the arts, Unknown Speaker 51:23 perhaps even more significant than life saving Scotland Unknown Speaker 51:30 is with current for was that Think of what touches us enough to move up? What will affect us what will lead to enough to us so that we do change our lives so that we do do something differently so that we feel impelled, rather than hiding behind the defenses that keep us down? There was another thing that you said that I wanted to return to? Unknown Speaker 51:57 Well, yeah. Maybe I'm listening to what you're saying. Hi, nice. To pocket Unknown Speaker 52:11 take up the course of designing a network, open up Unknown Speaker 52:15 options to others, and open alternatives. I can understand that you might want more than that. I'm doing what I'm scratching my head. And I'm not finished. Today, because you're here today, because the college is here today to waive it and it's time to change. That may not be enough, but should we keep on recording it? Because it can change over time as I'm saying things like Unknown Speaker 52:48 sexual experiences with a person of the same sex you're considered a homosexual I would like to hear them say six sexual experiences with a person of the opposite sex you are considered a heterosexual even more consequential and I think Moore's is that what Unknown Speaker 53:15 people would like to know more I will Unknown Speaker 53:21 septic and the local teacher can teach them as well that's fine. But is it changed enough? First of all? Yes. I'm saying what's wrong with that kind of change? Unknown Speaker 53:36 Or what's wrong with it? Beginning I'm trying to get back out of the dialogue line I'm Unknown Speaker 53:43 calling taking this out of context, but when one of this percent comes to me, especially the straight line take the homosexual or heterosexual and I feel like that's the time and I'm not sure if that's a change but I think it's a way to make make homosexuality accessible because Unknown Speaker 54:07 we are just like everybody you do live in Unknown Speaker 54:09 suburbs and have to Carson to pack into dogs. I don't see that as a change. Somebody over here Unknown Speaker 54:18 used to be more private, be more accepting and to those other realities. Setting theory pushes us back based on the state itself ourselves, and I think a lot about they've gone to bars with a ton of vaping in the city. Unknown Speaker 54:57 And here we are little room How Unknown Speaker 55:01 to become more can become Unknown Speaker 55:06 more visible to Unknown Speaker 55:09 the rescue by learning how other people felt, to move beyond ourselves Unknown Speaker 55:24 to speak to that question that at the same time that that we begin to become, quote unquote successful or cooperate and those things happen to us. We also find in an increased repression happening, which could then drive us back to wanting to be with ourselves so that we wouldn't have to deal with people not understanding. And what are you asking out of that? Where do we go from here? What are people's experiences with that? How are people feeling at this point? I'd like to respond to that question. Unknown Speaker 56:00 myself. When I I don't know if that was your lifetime. Unknown Speaker 56:20 One other question. I don't think necessarily, that one should have to do that. Part of you, is private, not just a live interview, but other things, as well, and that you don't have to announce themselves on change however. Unknown Speaker 56:51 Not too far ago, and still going on today. The reaction that couldn't get better violence? So where do we make this debt? No, I think probably in the one hand to wash the tap, and on the other day I am and when should we? Go. Just wanted to Unknown Speaker 57:43 come into work. Hi, I'm heterosexual I am my wife. But we don't have we have to be afraid and most of our jobs and don't get me wrong. When I said before, it's gotten better. If you come out of isolation to a sense of identification, I don't mean that the persecution or the, or the harassment of Scotland a country of no way. But I think at least effectively for a big step forward. And I don't say I wasn't seeing Pollyanna. But on the other hand, I think it's unfair. Just to say I don't talk about my private life. Still also just imagine you get seen by somebody at work going into the Duchess and that gets slapped all over the place. There's a big difference between your from a discussed the European scene and your lesbian girlfriend at the Duchess, or Harry and his wife were seen at a restaurant. That's the difference. So that when you discuss what, what you do if you don't come out and say you're lesbian with a private, right, a great man. And she said before that she is with teleclass. She's a lesbian Unknown Speaker 58:56 motivation to the whole discussion. Where did you set it in on you made your point about public and private and those very concepts in sales are part of the problem if we think about the body politic. Today, we think about the generally accepted usages of public and private public is supposed to be that arena, where you go out into the world, right? All these terms, I mean, I feel like putting them on importation marks you go out of bed in the kitchen. And you go into the world, where you sell your labor, into volunteer work. Or your labor to some employer who thinks it's good business, to pay you as little as possible and get you to do as much work as possible and keep the rest. And whatever it is you do for as much as possible back to you and keep the rest and that's good business. So how did you get in school? Twice as the as the worker and as a consumer and doesn't quite call together to go out and do volunteer work and patch it up. Okay, the public realm, which is offered as dynamic bonuses and profit, a small group of people who wake off with what's proven the whole social communications network, keeping the word generations of the human race going all happen to do the work and how that which is appropriated by men or women is private and includes sexuality. It includes childcare, it includes reproducing workforce, it includes reproducing class relations, it includes all kinds of things which are supposed to be more important which are supposed to be more political, which is supposed to be individual problem solving individually and that's how we use condoms Unknown Speaker 1:01:20 that is not benefiting private individuals it's at the expense of private individuals in other words that whole system is turned precisely upside down when we think about those words it's about protecting women from violence as a public issue we have a whole different video you it looks more they can come in Unknown Speaker 1:02:06 indicates what Unknown Speaker 1:02:07 we were talking about. About the division between Unknown Speaker 1:02:12 the internal and the external now awarded division this relates to Unknown Speaker 1:02:27 what she says I was Unknown Speaker 1:02:29 talking about before Unknown Speaker 1:02:38 about where we could put our feet Unknown Speaker 1:02:45 and thought about an island is not so far away from here. One of the things that occurred to us was that Unknown Speaker 1:02:53 if indeed we were there then indeed some of the boys would come and make sure we were not so heavily there and all the things that are part of that Unknown Speaker 1:03:08 with the recent Unknown Speaker 1:03:10 version of Harrisburg Unknown Speaker 1:03:15 not that we're not doing that I want to say Unknown Speaker 1:03:23 one of the things I like Unknown Speaker 1:03:26 we can do with a nuclear issue was survive living your way and now. The question before you most in your power most I feel a strong need to win a harmonious relationship Unknown Speaker 1:04:50 which is essentially when I'm existing in front of a fairy lands basically Unknown Speaker 1:04:56 outside of the culture and how will take you out here to give us your Unknown Speaker 1:05:19 time come out of that Unknown Speaker 1:05:21 movie together I feel empowered Unknown Speaker 1:05:36 when I do work that I find important others think I feel powerful Unknown Speaker 1:05:53 when I can Unknown Speaker 1:05:56 act in the world in some way out of out of a sense of personal centeredness when I'm on those rare moments, and I balance out the conflicts, and then we're centered on myself on the issue and then can act in the world Unknown Speaker 1:06:17 does your erotic relationship with other women having to do with the feeling of being empowered being strong? How How does Congress structured how the world is structured is to not allow that is to make that unimportant, it's made all the things that you mentioned practically impossible to achieve. And still consider yourself a legitimate citizen. Now, how do we turn that around? How do we how do we take the time, just the time think about how time structure who's going up to be time It's time to prime it is so that you can earn certain amount of money in a certain period time so they can work on certain period of time. What the French are calling discord, what what we're calling law, or philosophy are constructs that are designed to regulate and divided for students purpose, which really has to do with reclaiming the world from nuclear energy and license giving, giving us back our happiness again, but it seems to be precisely the opposite. How many things a day do you do what your parts help you participate in keeping yourself down and helping you keep yourself away from doing those things which make you feel powerful, which disappeared you're feeling 200 And how much money made off of helping you do them and give him come possibly addictively? Just talking about the political system, we're talking about the whole production of food the whole organization of social life around the globe agents entire Unknown Speaker 1:09:09 organizational Unknown Speaker 1:09:10 reality is presented to us Yeah, now you know how crazy Are you? Unknown Speaker 1:09:20 I don't think anybody else has this feeling but understanding the word and my first time at this conference, because I felt that I had nothing to bring to scholarship, nor did I have the vocabulary to receive from scholarship. Every once in a while. A thought was surprised when I would connect with it and translate it. But I put a lot of translating and mostly is was While I was interested in being in this fast gymnasium, and that was a wonderful feeling, but I wonder how many other women here had trouble understanding language. And thank God for ordering because I really had trouble understanding that way, which Unknown Speaker 1:10:20 I think I want to add to the structure of reality what kind of bizarre I think that scholarship today has been fun to be presenting, I'm dying to keep on trying to hide from listening people thought at us, and then to each other. It wasn't meant for thinking going on. It was sort of, you know, that sort of passive stance when takes and lecture, I think important, but there wasn't enough. With that many people, it wasn't enough, give and take and pick and choose instructed in a different way. So that if I wanted to hear one particular speaker, I could hear that person, but I didn't have to hear the other three people that went along with it. Or it's not that close minded, it shifted fear. Comfort plays a big role in trying to on Interact and try to think and trying to feel particular and try to relate to what people are saying to you and how they're saying it. And I think that you know, there was a lot of I get a feeling of being locked in a lot with a lot of people think it just was very quiet No, I think that's consistent. Consistent. Unknown Speaker 1:11:45 I just want to I agree with languages Unknown Speaker 1:11:49 deliberately obscure the structure of worldly evidence, Unknown Speaker 1:11:55 a high effort I equate scholarship back into that's why I feel I'm definitely awkward, which I think is one of the things that women have been punishing themselves for, because I think there's a whole other kinds of wisdom which I could not find I could relate to I found myself when I'm sitting at Marian and she said you know, she said I'm the basis of something or other talks about that she had edited some trivial magazine. Anyway, reducing everything to see here the place Sunday has more string being that is where I'm where I live in motion, that is what I understand I understand something that I can experience physically, I don't understand words, I really have evolved Unknown Speaker 1:12:57 a lot of different genres especially in this we're checking to make sure that we've agreed a few words and a great deal of intellectual life falling into line about a lot of words in the game is a feeling process has nothing to do with a lot of it is coming after a lot of years something that I have nothing to do with when I was growing up and I realized that maybe the best way to analyze what was happening before now so that we can work from them was Unknown Speaker 1:13:32 added, destroying or changing Unknown Speaker 1:13:34 but a lot of different businesses you know, for me because because it's talking if you're brave, and you know what, you know, you could get a lot from understanding the language or what if someone's sitting there, you're gonna cause trouble or you know, or you're going to get a video of ours on Boxing Day I want to talk about the analysis in structural it's important I think a lot of the other parts are not real in our community with very. I think Unknown Speaker 1:14:34 I don't think people felt they were being taught to Unknown Speaker 1:14:39 think it was geared more toward people in academia Unknown Speaker 1:14:43 or writers Unknown Speaker 1:14:47 geared towards women or women. disappointed Unknown Speaker 1:14:52 if that has happened to us suppose that Unknown Speaker 1:14:54 we're hearing from you and she's maybe she's not sick. I'm Unknown Speaker 1:14:58 picking up what she's saying. Unknown Speaker 1:15:00 Are you thinking about taboo, I'm just talking about Unknown Speaker 1:15:03 what's been bothering me all day. And I'm just disappointed. I don't think it was geared towards women, or women. Unknown Speaker 1:15:25 Resist oppression of women in the 12th century. And in order to deprive women of the power that we had at that time, particularly in the church, and we're talking about a period of time where the church and the state were not separate. If you had the keys to the larger in the church, you had to cancel a date. And that's what the woman did. And women were kicked out from the ninth to the 12th centuries, who through the series of reforms, women were kicked out progressively from the church. And the professions were instituted in the nation state was instituted, gradually and clergy century at the expense of women and to the problem and the power. Unknown Speaker 1:16:05 To ask a question about, you know, people are wasting a lot of dissatisfaction I think about the format of today and the content. But I was wondering what people's expectations were, or given the name of the conference and who was going to be presenting papers and stuff it was going to happen Unknown Speaker 1:16:27 because I think the dissatisfactions with scholarship. You want to find an answer to spend a year learning the language in which the answer is going to be provided, matching your attitude. So, by coming I know that feminists Unknown Speaker 1:16:49 I want to explain Unknown Speaker 1:16:52 a renovation such that I can as a human being, I have urgent questions that are asked in esoteric meaning that there's a nature of being the nature of time and woman who is that I don't want to have to be a philosopher, my scholastic tradition to get those Persian answers have been all sorts of questions, but we're reduced to the grocery, because we have women scholars to speak Unknown Speaker 1:17:22 up that you can find the answers in the classical tuition scholarship though even if you have the time and the money and energy to spend a year learning the language. I think Unknown Speaker 1:17:37 they're assuming as you're sitting down is circumscribed ask the big questions like what are the rules of evidence? What makes you believe something which are very much? Accepted? Those kinds of questions have to be answered if you're on the boundaries of questions that are answered in belief assertion, safe feeling tones to know your academic vision, if you want to learn about Unknown Speaker 1:18:15 one of the videos whether in the Academy of piano, what the artist is willing to make is no answer on the ultimate. But I think the Lord was talking today about how many solutions that there was got to on reconstructing and putting together different ways of making extrapolation. I think one of the reasons why we come to conferences like these is because generally we deal with it no, no personalized, we'd like to reach out to other people. Even if it is shitty, it's still a way to get together with people is one alternative. I think we learned what we can do better by seeing how bad things can be or what's the add on, I think it's important, even if the flooring isn't always good, or we don't get as far as we want to in our expectations, we can individual expectations and they have to change and we work in groups. But we come together at meetings whenever we decided to move ourselves to this means because we are looking to theorize we are looking for to change the realities we know we have a lot of tries to change and we know we have to listen to a lot of different people. And some of those people will offer advances in some of the molecular stages and negative ways but that's definitely something you know. Indefinitely definitely I printed another step and trying to figure out on Unknown Speaker 1:19:37 Twitter. I I was talking about Unknown Speaker 1:20:02 I think that she has a Unknown Speaker 1:20:05 great culture Unknown Speaker 1:20:09 I'm sort of a bridge between the academy if you think Unknown Speaker 1:20:15 Adrienne forms approach to the academy Unknown Speaker 1:20:19 Oh Kenny has Jimmy knows of the United intellection skills. And it's like, as feminist theory people, certain questions occurred over the course of our work. And if we're doing some of the work, we're trying to make the world a better place crucial questions that we want to think about the ones that when we want to have intellectual clarity, and so we looked at the academy, there's certain ways of looking at questions, framing questions, knowing how people have coaches in the past, knowing what history is. And these are things that the academy male, intellectual establishment control. And till this kind of a frustration, feminists forget that, when they go to the academy, they go to college or university that they're going into male dominated areas. And they just sort of internalize that. And so we ended up doing the same thing over and over again, and not realizing that we're trying to use our intellectual skills to integrate, you know, some of the things that Audrey was talking about, you know, the feeling or the heart or the other parts of our humaneness. But we shouldn't make the mistake of saying that we don't want theory or rejecting that, because I want to have intellectual skills and clarity and sharpness that those kinds of years of education gave us and I want to have those analytical tools and there they are, right there the rise of a hail power, but I want the practical. Unknown Speaker 1:22:04 not exclude I think what has been obscured was that reason has always had its motivations. And that scholars have always been passionate. But there have been no admissions events, and you get these authoritative assertions, objective knowledge, a woman comes along scholar comes and says, This is my life, and expresses very clearly for emotions about the subject and has taken has notation or suggested eyes and the subject, but she's using Unknown Speaker 1:22:40 the analytic tools, she's only using the Unknown Speaker 1:22:43 security, the fact that she's Unknown Speaker 1:22:45 a passion of mine. I think that rather than I mean, I don't Unknown Speaker 1:22:50 understand much of the talk about a woman's language. I think there's certain logical use of language and when I was bullish to make sense period. So I'm not sure that I can proceed in a separate language, but simply a language emanating which will not obscure the holistic features of this course. So, Unknown Speaker 1:23:14 it really is given to us wanted to see Unknown Speaker 1:23:25 right, because it was interesting today about language is that languages learn that the period in child development when we learn obedience, we learn to be present for too long, when we learn to fit in to a gender or not. And that the tool for that socialization is language. So the language itself becomes problematic, because it is a tool of repression, as well as being a tool of self expression, a liberatory tool, and we are constantly living in the tension of both things happening at the same time for us. How do we then push our weight over and release the energy in the direction that we want may not be only in language, may be in dance, it may be in music, it may be in other forms of communication sharing and surviving together. The time the workshop is over. Unknown Speaker 1:24:45 For women and agency are making a documentary on TV Live, we're currently on television. As of yet, they're doing three major stations in New York and as of yet they have already mailed out No, no people involved in the interviewing, getting information from them. They don't have enough women on the front of the board through the research, shameless lie I do not have enough Coffee