Unknown Speaker 00:01 Would you like to introduce? Should we introduce ourselves everyone? Here? You can come sit here. And why don't you start and introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Jake lives Unknown Speaker 00:20 and instead back with an undergraduate students in social sciences service University, and I'm working on them on a table. This is the reason that I'm here. I'm working Unknown Speaker 00:29 on my example, my proposal, but also my dissertation, which is about geography. So I'm having a lot of trouble Unknown Speaker 00:35 thinking, thinking about and specifying exactly how I'm going to ask the questions. I'm interested in asking you that challenge. Unknown Speaker 00:43 Well, that's good to take what you're interested in. But I was going to do that a little later, in terms of the focus of this, I'm afraid this week saying that our main emphasis that we will not have time to discuss what we came to discussing. So why don't we just Unknown Speaker 01:01 introduce ourselves and like? I couldn't hear you. And Maria asked Unknown Speaker 01:11 Bill during working hours. Then it came, in this case, Unknown Speaker 01:22 South carmelization. Ladies and Unknown Speaker 01:29 gentlemen, boys and girls, whether acquired Unknown Speaker 01:32 deposits are actually a student activity represent a controlling Unknown Speaker 01:43 interest in health Unknown Speaker 01:45 care workers. Unknown Speaker 01:51 Working for the Office of Research at the US Commission on Civil Rights, Unknown Speaker 01:54 Martin Mitchell, I'm a student at Barnard. Unknown Speaker 01:57 Well, I guess, you know, I'm here to learn it. And I'm asking, Okay, well, here's what I'd like to discuss with you first, and that is how we should proceed. The workshop is supposed to discuss utopian proposals, and our ultimate structures. And it's an faded here yet. All right, she will come to. And we can do one of three things, I think, or anything that anyone else wants to propose, because I feel strongly that the structure in the way in which we do something also has something to do with what we're going to do. And I, I am no very comfortable with the idea of, you know, one major paper and everybody is bouncing off of that. So my thought was that we could do several things. I'd like to know how many people here have utopian proposals or alternate structures that they would like to talk about? All right, one, that's all you to somebody else? And I know, and Fagan, so that's only two. All right. I have thought if there were more that we could take time, you know, for each person to do that, and then use mine. As as just one other proposal. The other possibility is to cause for me to read mine, and we discuss that and then we discuss everybody else's. Or another form might be for us to spend, let's say, a half an hour. At the beginning, come and sit here, this room, why don't we make sort of an access route for people who come late, you know, so that they could maybe if this role will move up a little bit this room behind them, right? We could we could spend a half an hour talking about what utopian proposals and alternate structures means to us, and then go into the papers specifically, or else we could do it the opposite way. Start with the paper, start with this path, ultimate start to proposals, and then make sure that at the end, we have at least a half an hour where everybody can sort of sink out utopias. Let's have a little discussion of how we would like to run this Unknown Speaker 04:29 eliminated questions when he talks about utopian opportunities to meet society for for scholarship. Unknown Speaker 04:36 Now, I really mean I thought that what we are meaning, what we're talking about, is something that comes out of what this morning's panels have really suggested, and that is that the very structure of academe and of existing institutions is counterproductive to or is insufficient to the enterprise of building a feminist scholarship, and that, even for those of us who are firmly rooted inside those structures, the conceptualizing of alternate structures, and the working towards them is a very important part of the very essence of what we want to do. I'm not talking about utopian society. I'm not talking about utopias for feminism, I'm talking about structures for creating feminist scholarship. That's all right. So does anyone else? Would you like to discuss the form first, a little bit of this afternoon session? Or would you just go ahead in the traditional way? Unknown Speaker 05:51 I have said, too many conferences where that question was not asked. And I would go outside afterwards, and people would rumble and grumble and say it's always the same old structural. So how in this session, could we not ask such a question? Yes, please. I like the idea of the last half hour. Okay. How many of you like that? Okay, how many of you would like to start with a half hour of calling on anyone to define what they have in mind by utopias or ultimate instruction? And then dealing with my patients? And the alternative would be start with my paper, do that and then go naturally with either way? What would you like? Unknown Speaker 06:35 About It is my greatest problem personally has been to have like an operational vocabulary. I don't I can't like my ideas. Because I don't have any. There's been no, we'll use a word standard. You know, for feminist scholarship. I think I just like to hear what people who have formulated their ideas about the subject, have to say, and I think that would help. You want to I'd Unknown Speaker 07:02 love to talk about my idea, but I wouldn't want to. Okay, Unknown Speaker 07:06 well, I'll tell you then, since we I asked the question before, and maybe some of the new people have something to add. I'll ask you once again. Is there anyone in the room who has some concrete alternate structure or proposal or utopia that she wants to talk about? You or who you entering? Are you are in Vegas? Yes, I know. Welcome. I'm glad to meet you. Wait, we've talked on the phone? Well, then let's do it this way. I'll set aside the last half hour, whatever else we may be discussing, we will stop. And we will all try to construct the ultimate structures, even if we haven't had them in mind. Okay, let's say that, and why don't I do this, then I'll reach my proposal. And then I call on Gina Wurttemberg, and on and Fagan to give us theirs, and then we can just toss it around. Is that agreeable? All right. I hear the first thing to say is really why discuss utopian proposals. And what do we mean by that? Well, I think it's important to let go of practical consideration sometimes, and to see what would be the ideal instrument to carry carry out the purpose you want to carry out. And it helps you to conceptualize what a thing is, if you're not constantly bound by what you already know, and what already has been made possible. Because the very concept of feminist scholarship is, by definition impossible in today's Academy, because women are considered marginal to everything that goes on in the academy, even when they are in the academy, therefore, and as I won't repeat what was said this morning, so obviously, because of that, if all we know is that we can never get to thinking what should be and what might be, because we always go from old model. And so I have found it a very good device for myself, for my students, and even politically, to say, okay, I can do anything I want that one would I want at this moment for women's scholarship. Alright, you in other words, I consider utopian thinking, a means for radical transformation. Because until you can, a basic to what I'm saying is that thought which comes out of social of society, is also a means for altering society. And without theory, you cannot alter society. So it's a it's a dialectic process. Without society you cannot alter theory and without theory, you cannot alter society. Now come back to what I said to small Running in the, you know, discussion period, that for women, the basic fact of our mindset is that we never have had a place and a space and a time. And the means to discuss what we are thinking about ourselves with others like us, by standards appropriate to us. Now all of that goes together. And that's the greatest utopia of all that we should have that time. Now, the conferences we have had have been a little bit of that, and they last one day and then never satisfied. There's never enough, they just explode your mind with frustration, which is very good to start with. But it's not enough to. All right now, the underlying assumption of my proposal is that women have not been marginal contributors to the making of society, but have always been an integral part in the building of society. And that the reason we have not noticed or validated, what they have done is that the concepts by which we have ordered our inquiry regarding history, and everything else have been so defined, that what women have done has been left out. The second underlying assumption is that men and women have always functioned differently in society. Now realize that that is a controversial assumption with which many of you may not agree, but it is my assumption that men and women have always function differently in society. I'm not saying that they have been treated differently, we all know that, I'm saying that they have been functioning differently. That the ways in which men and women has made history, in other words, has been different. We know the ways by which men have functioned. And we call that history. Unknown Speaker 11:50 We recognize those women who have functioned in ways similar or alike to men as having made a contribution. We say, Have you ever met any contribution to history and what we really mean is, are there any peculiar women who liked the dancing poodle, do that which men do so exceedingly? Well. We do not know sufficiently how women have functioned. And that is what women's history is all about, to find that out. Now, not all of your historians, as I'm trying to, this is, of course, a paper and project in history. But I think that by extension, one could see immediately how crucial such a project would be, to the formation of thought about women in everything. Because the fact of not having had a history for any one group is not just an accidental and incremental deprivation. It is the essential deprivation of all other deprivation, one can be deprived of almost everything else and survive, one can be deprived. By being deprived of language and history, a group is totally deprived of the means of its own emancipation. So therefore, how to deal with history becomes a crucial entity enterprise. My proposal is designed. My proposal has to do with priorities and it is designed both to create a new structure and to find a research project, not only appropriate to that structure, but one, which is so essential to proving the two underlying assumptions. That in my opinion, once it is proven, we will have transformed all of history, because it will no longer be possible to assume that that which we call history is Indian history. If it's right, if it's wrong, my assumption is that by proceeding with it, proving it wrong in the process, we will find the right question. My proposal is for a massive team research project on the role of us women in the building of communities and community organizations over time. It is based on the thesis that women have provided continuity and the supporting infrastructure upon which men have built institutions which generate and distribute power when you talk a little more Unknown Speaker 14:29 slowly for Unknown Speaker 14:30 those of us with hearing a Udall thesis is that women have provided continuity in history, and the supporting infrastructure upon which men have built the institutions which generate and distribute power. Further, that the social organizations, institutions and modes of functioning of women in patriarchal society constitute an integral aspect of universal history, and must therefore be integrated into historical studies on all levels. We're not going to get very far if I have a good reason for me. Well, I'll get over it Unknown Speaker 15:18 again. All right, so well thought out. Unknown Speaker 15:21 social organizations, institutes and modes of functioning of women in patriarchal society, are a part of universal history. They're not a marginal pot, you see, you hear what I'm saying? We have been told how can women fit into history? I am saying how can history be expanded to be relevant to half of humanity, it's a totally different transformation. So and therefore, they must be integrated into historical studies on all levels, and affect not only the content, but the criteria for evaluation, to put it in the terms that Mary PAM put it today. What is significant to admit something as a historical fact is, this is the work of the historian, historian tells you somebody is important, some event is significant. Therefore, we included inevitably, the criteria by which that decision has been made has been what is important and significant to men. I am saying that there's a two stage process, we first have to create enough space and enough time and enough support for historians of women to say what is important and significant to women. And then the second stage from that is we have to say, Okay, what does this mean, in terms of the history as previously defined, which we will have to rewrite for sure, together with men who will begin to think that way? Because my whole point is that the thinking of men is antediluvian, patriarchy is an anachronism. And that isn't just small. I mean, we are not, I'll use an analogy that I that gets to the core of it. The thing like not being bold about it, it's, you know, we still think that the Earth is a saucer, you know, and we're quite confident that we know what it's like, except that some of us have already been around the globe, Elizabeth, many of us that image. It's that kind of revolution has to take place. All right, I lost my favorite. The project is designed to be interdisciplinary and comparative, both longitudinally and horizontally. I will explain that later. It consists of a group of community studies, in the period of modernization of four or more US communities at comparable stages of development. The work would be carried out by teams consisting of one or more historian, one anthropologist, one political scientists, and one economic historian. And don't hold me to that it could be other people, too. I think we need a psychologist and a poet and everything. Teams would address themselves to a set of questions, which had been collectively devise, and what each prepared are separate findings, which papers and monographs, the work of synthesis might be done by a selected team after a period of several years, the basis for analysis will be one, to isolate the distinct roles and work of women and community to to compare women's views, goals, activities and modes of work. But those of men doing similar work and engaged in similar activities, three, to compare the findings in one community with those and others that's horizontal, for to try to locate, appropriate to try and locate appropriate periods of change by comparing communities at different stages of development with each other, and that would be the vertical analysis. So shall I illustrate what I mean by that? You might take a community, a rural community, a small town becoming an urban center, and industrializing stage, right? And you might say what changes in the activities of men and women in those community. But then you might say we take three towns at the same stage. And we compare at different periods of time, in other words, and New England town where it happens in 1830, a Chicago or Pittsburgh where it happens in 1860, Los Angeles in 1910, all right. And if the same phenomenon occurs, with regard to gender, you realize we would have proven something right. It's just it's an attempt at setting up this scientific model for comparing changes in activity. Unknown Speaker 20:09 The project will of necessity transcend the capacity of any one university history department, it will need to be independently financed and grant supportive. It might take the form of a new and separate Research Institute, or have separate research teams which in their turn might be located at appropriate institutions. And these could be universities Women's Studies Center women's colleges or research institutions now in existence with an advisory board and project directors functioning as coordinated. The point is to guarantee independence from university politics, sufficient stability and interference I should say, sufficient stability to attract an outstanding group of participants and sufficient flexibility to draw on the disciplinary strength of a variety of academic institutions and extramural sources. Alright, precedent for such a research approach can be found in science, the team approach to cancer research. In fact, cancer research is being carried out exactly by this approach. Now located at different universities, each team doing separate things, the teams being in close communication, holding annual meetings, publishing their findings, testing various things, having a work specialization, and great flexibility but all funded as a joint project. The finding the cause and cure of Multiple Sclerosis is one other team effort like that. The development of the atom bomb was done that way. Education Unknown Speaker 21:45 tenure program for universities, Unknown Speaker 21:47 I didn't know that that's wonderful. Great. A prototype in the social sciences is the team research project on the status and history of the American Negro, which resulted in the publication of guna mill dolls and American dilemma, four other volumes and 35 monograms monographs, and which, in fact, advanced black history studies in black sociology and norms, alright, so it's not unprecedented. It's just a question of isolating something pertaining to women's scholarship as being of equal significance. Needless to say, I think this is more important than nuclear research. All right, the left side of page you okay, the process by which I'm not going to give a little background, all right, the no interpretations in the history of thought in the in the history of knowledge, no interpretations are usually made when new questions when current new current questions are being asked to be established systems of thought. And then usually, there is, there is a process a period a short period where some advanced thinkers in the academic institutions are allowed to ask those questions, teach others from the top down, and then monographic, then they try to assemble neglected primary sources monographic work is designed to find missing data, and no interpretations are made, then follows a period of searching for a new conceptual framework, a period which usually encompasses a decade or more of scholarly monographic work. Sometimes it's in the case of Frontier history. The process begins with a provocative thesis which needs to be substantiated or proven. Frequently, the new ideas and work are first treated with indifference, skepticism or hostility by established authorities, the same authorities who have previously ignored the questions which gave rise to the new inquiry. I mean, that's, you have to understand that that's the normal process. Then, as a few pioneering scholars just established reputations, a few isolated books or monographs when critical acclaim. Gradually as scholarly work and reinterpretations build up to a critical mass, they become legitimate, established scholars to test out the new questions, and to incorporate some of the new interpretations. Finally integrating the new material into the mainstream of historical scholarship. In a few cases, such as that of black history, this has meant the rewriting of traditional history and no synthesis and merges improves enriching and invigorate. The process by which historical scholarship advances is accompanied by institutional adjustments. Traditionally, these moved from the top down with leading figures of imposing stature a truck that attracts the cluster of students and instruct them in in the history and I use Frederick Jackson Turner in the 14th history as an example. There's another model for the creation of a new field and it's the model for divided by black history, which after following for several decades, the slow mode of growth outlined above received the sudden forced infusion of vigor by often on campus political pressure. For those of you who may not be familiar with the field, the field began in 1905. With the work of for black historians crying in the wilderness, only one of whom was connected with a major institution. It got a slight spurt of growth in 1916, with the formation of the Journal of Negro history, but what I now described did not begin to happen until the 1940s and 50s. Unknown Speaker 25:41 In the off camp off and on campus, political pressure really began to build up in the 1950s and 60s, the proliferation of Black Studies programs, Unison specialists on most campuses, due to student activism, did lead to a sudden outburst of interest in long neglected questions to the training of specialists into the short term infusion of grant and fellowship money and publishes interest in the printing of books on the subject. This certainly helped to accelerate growth in the field. But the significant significant work of scholarship proceeded more slowly and was by and large, carried on by established scholars. The institutional changes made under pressure of the black liberation movement proved to be quite easily reversible. Yet the impact on scholarship of the sudden dramatic focusing of interest on questions of race, proof, durable and significant. Black history is today an established part of American history, and is on the way toward becoming fully integrated into every aspect of historical work. It is worth noting that this process from the Pioneer crying in the wilderness, to the integration in the mainstream took nearly 70 years. Now the case of women's history, while it has some similarity to other new fields, is sufficiently different from the others to make the difference was exploring, like black history and groove it represents in part a response to questions formulated outside of the profession, questions which are reflections of shifting concerns in society. Since the proliferation of Women's Studies program and courses is a response to off campus concerns, and on campus pressure, the field has institutionally grown from the ground up rather than from the top down. Institutions claim with some justification that there simply are not sufficient, highly qualified female scholars available to bring women's studies to a first grade level of scholarship. Let me say that I you know, I do not agree with this claim. But they do claim that it is true that there are as yet only a few scholars working in the field who have as much as five years experience in researching and writing women's history, and that the majority of the scholars now producing our recent PhDs are specialists in other areas will have recently turned to women's history. This is at least in part a reflection of past institutional discrimination against women, and have their marginality in the upper reaches of academic life. Yet current institutional commitment to compensating for such past discrimination is seriously hampered by foot threatening on affirmative action, by intellectual resistance to the implications of women oriented scholarship, and by economic pressures. And at this moment is we are worse off than five years ago, as you all know, in actuality, the relative stress of graduate level women's history courses and the narrowness of graduate training in the few institutions where it's now available, indications of institutional resistance, I'll skip this because I talked about the 100 dissertations in the field, which are now being produced and which will make an impact. But such an impact you see, is not really felt for 10 years after they appeared. So what I'm saying here is that if we leave it to the pressure from the ground, from the bottom down, and from the ground up to the normal institutional process, it will not take seven days to take 100 years if the future of women's history cannot necessarily be predicted on the basis of precedent. But by comparison with Black History, Women represent the unique case there are more than half the population. The social and cultural women's revolution are continuing outside apogee, and will continue to put pressure on the academic community, regardless of institutional resistance. Women represent a much larger proportion of the academic community than just blacks. They're more widely distributed at all levels of faculty, and although shamefully underrepresented in the higher ranks, they still are not knowledgeable, invisible group which cannot be permanently ghettoized in the academic institutions any more than it can be in the outside world. More importantly, the findings and the questions raised by scholars and women's history, even within the short span of seven years, have already posed profound challenges to his score historical scholarships and interpretations to which a serious response can be postponed, but not indefinitely avoided. Unknown Speaker 30:13 Now, I give some examples, but I skip that patriarchy itself and the value system which sustains it have moved within the purview of historical inquiry. That is, I'll explain that more slowly. Patriarchy itself must be recognized as a historical phenomenon even before it is finished. That's the first tool for mental liberation. The question is not what have they done to us? And how have we responded? The question is not how have they victimize us? And how have we resisted? The question is, how could they get into this monstrosity? And how are they good? Are we getting them out of it? That's really the question. That's quite a different set of questions. And one has to sort of put that framework around Unknown Speaker 31:04 all inquiry. Unknown Speaker 31:07 Interdisciplinary work has become a methodological necessity in such an inquiry, which is one reason why it is difficult to undertake it within existing institutions. Feminist scholarship in psychology, sociology, anthropology, literature, religion and biology, has already yielded important new insights and presents fundamental challenges in historical scholarship. In Place implicit in these challenges, is the need for revision of most if not all, historical work, so as to include the past experience and point of view of one half of humankind. A task of this magnitude and scope would be overwhelming under the best of circumstances. But given the current states of women's history, the sociology of its practitioners and the institutional setting in which it is placed, the task seems nearly insuperable because of the shortage of female specialists of professorial rank and university departments discussed earlier. And because of the long standing indifference of most historians to the subject, women's history has little chance to prove its merits by the traditional route from the top down. And as I said before, we're not willing to wait for 70 or 100 years. Well, one should add here that of course, in the meantime, we're not standing still we are making our way. But it seemed to me advisable to develop a project, which would test the essential thesis of feminist system geography, and serve to develop methodology and criteria appropriate to a new synthesis. If women had a separate historical experience, possibly even a separate culture, we must first recreate the past from the viewpoint of the female experience. That is an elaborate edit is simply the question of what I was speaking about this morning. To validate the female experience, that is to recreate a history, we must believe that that which women know is worth knowing. I'll give you an example. We all know that it is important to know how to make war, or how to make peace settlements, right? We know that it's very important. We know it's very important to know how to invent the tools. We know almost nothing about what menstruation is, and how it feels and what it does to you and what it teaches and what it means to experience all of your life. I would suggest that that's a field of knowledge, which we don't even know what it means. We know this is always not important. It's our bodies. Of what who says we do not know what it means to feed that person who in their lifecycle has the potential for making life within her body? And what does that do if one were to validate that into mental constructs appropriate to it? In other words, is abstraction really the only way of thinking? We don't know that? So I it's a rather profound set of things. It's not just you know, what religious reform group did women working? It's not just little simple things like what was the contribution of women to the radical movement? How do we fit women into Marxist scholarship on Friday and scholarship or any other kinds of scholarship? It's nothing like that. It's, it's validating that which is at the core of women's existence which has been denied as having significant alright, we must then investigate to what extent is any of the activities of women defined by themselves and acted on are among themselves, but different from those of men in their intention and their impact. They must further tried to locate this inquiry at crucial periods of social change, and focus it in such a way as to make use of comparative history. Unknown Speaker 35:16 The theoretical tools for locating such a project in history can be found in the work of Mary beard. Although her work has not yet fully received its due, it has significantly affected a number of women's history specialists. It was Mary Beard who first called attention to the need for studying the informal, non institutional network on which community life risks in order to find and recognize the contributions of women to history. Yet the few historical studies, which focus on communities and voluntary organizations have not asked the questions which would yield information on women. An example is a classic of community studies Merle Curtis, the making of an American community. And his definition of who is a community leader virtually guarantees that there will be no woman among them. He says the leader is a person standing out in respect to at least three or five criteria. The criteria were one political participation and office holding to more than average total property. Three, prominence in such social organizations as the county agricultural society like sales, churches and schools, for frequent mentioned in newspapers, and five prominence in his occupational group. Similar criteria were used by David tunnel and Jaron Suren in just this last five years in recent analysis of abolitionists, with similar results, the latest scholarship on the abolition movement, which was made up we know, of half women, is that there is not a single leader by this definition to be found among women. Okay, this is an intellectual feat of huge proportions, one really has to manage to do this, in fact, and nobody has asked the question in another way. So that's the example. All right now I'm suggesting a different set of questions. Some of these are, what placed as the socialization of children have, and the formation of societal values. In any given committee community? What are the informal non institutional aspects of community life? What role do women play in them? Who whom do individuals in the community recognizes? The person as molded as a public opinion as activist? Who influenced women? And whom did they influence? Who makes the fact that decisions in the formal institutions and in the informal structures which support them, who carries out and interpret such institutions? For example, in any business firm of bureaucracy? What is the role play and the importance of administrative secretaries in the day to day operation of the business? Picture to yourself, the American business enterprise with every woman below the rank of executive officer removed from it for just one week? One day, one week in the country with the collapse, there is no question about it. Men could men could not do what women have always done when men have gone to war, step in and take over without the slightest lack of quality ship. In other words, it is isn't it amazing that in every war in every nation, women were always able to fill the gap on trainers they were, whereas I would challenge the set that the potential exists for men doing the same thing without serious retraining, and, in fact, serious detriment to the psychological structure and their socialization because they would not. It simply would not be possible. I do think I could be wrong, though. What what the women played in formal education? How do female female networks function example of the transmission throughout history of forbidden abortion and birth control information through informal Women to Women contacts, Unknown Speaker 39:18 are their differences by gender and community rituals. I'm particularly referring to a recent insight, which I have come to by doing the work on my book, the female experience, and organizing the work in this form. It suddenly struck me that one of the most basic differences and historic experience of men and women is the different relationship that women and men have to sickness, disability and death. And that that is something that when we begin to deal with what that means, philosophically, structurally, and in terms of activity and style of activity, it may vary. It will be a clue to unraveling the whole way in which intellectual enterprise is structured around male lines. Because you see, the female experience has always been to not make a distinction between theory and practice, to learn in experiencing and transform in doing, and to think about what you do while you're doing. Whereas the male experience has been to specialize divorce from activity, divorce, especially from the underpinnings the natural aspects of experience that is the part connected with the body with the feeding, and the digestion, the excrement, the dirt, the sickness, the morbidity of the body, which is left to slaves, women, children, underlings, inferiors, whereas the enterprise of the mind sits on top there as something disembodied, having nothing to do with biology. Women have never been able to do that. And I have a hunch that when you begin to think that way, we will say, Thank God, thank God for not having to do it that way. Yes. You mean, Unknown Speaker 41:26 extraction and men have been able to select quality if they want? Or they can eliminate the verbals? Unknown Speaker 41:34 No, no, no, no, when the patriarchy is the social structure, by which work is gender differentiated in such a way that the care of food, excrement, dirt, children, sickness, and dying is done by females, and everything else is reserved for males, since every man ever born partakes of that which he assigned to the females to take care of as a human beings, but has somehow managed to put a buffer between himself and that experience, the sort of men reflects that excludes the thoughts that we as academically trained women, then in fact, we as women thinking in the language of the patriarchy, that thought is male thought we do not understand frequently enough that if we were to think, in line with our historical experience and validate it, that something extraordinary would happen to our minds. And some of us who have gone through this experience of doing this shift, which is not just the paradigm shift, please. It's not, it's a shift of moving yourself from the margin to the center, and saying, I am going to trust what I know. And I'm going to trust that other women know. And now I'm going to see what that means and what that does, to what I have been told, told, and to what I want to think. And when you allow yourself to do that you suddenly begin to think as I am, I think now thinking that you begin to allow for these implications to happen. And what happens is that the first thing that really becomes really suspect is all that what I call the, you know, the filing cabinet, the boxes, the boxes, not able to think in boxes, because our life, Unknown Speaker 43:41 our body, and our thoughts have always been processed. Alright, Unknown Speaker 43:48 just let's shoot that out. Unknown Speaker 43:51 Okay, questions. These women's organizations have different functions and different modes of operations and those run by men. If so, what were these different stakeholders that affected? The study of community should encompass not only institutions but should be functional? How did people earn a living? How are children raised? How were marriages arranged? How were the pool that houses the agents careful? Who took care of the food, Unknown Speaker 44:17 the dirt, the garbage? Unknown Speaker 44:19 The house cleaning, the street cleaning? The housekeeping in the community, as Jane Addams said, Who concern themselves with that? All right, then I repeat the argument I made before so I won't go into that. All right. Let's say that if this what I'm calling for them is it's really two things. You could forget this research project, and you still could call for an Institute for Advanced feminist study. And that would be fine. I think once you do that, I just put the two together. As an example. I feel Institute has to have more than just space and time and fun for women to do history, psychology etc. It has to be dedicated to the transforming kind of inquiry as a premise. Nothing is does should be starting with within the old framework, otherwise, it's going to be useless. It's not what we want. Otherwise, you might as well just go and be a Harvard fellow and the Yale or whatever, and they're letting a few of us now to Princeton around the same, so that's great. But that's not what I mean at all. I do mean that from the outset, there has to be a different concept of what it is we're looking at. And whether it's this project or any other, that basic thing has to be built into the structure. If my project were used, I think it would might serve to substantiate the historical thesis. It would then have scientific proof of the special nature of woman's role in the past. This would contribute to our knowledge of gender differences of the Long Range effective margin now. It could also have revisionist influence, it would undoubtedly alter feminist theory in general, for it would supplant simplistic ideas about women as victims with more complex theories about women as active forces in history. Despite their peculiar status as a marginal majority, should it fail to prove the status it will direct our attention to other areas, it will lead to new theories of itself, such as study would also contribute to knowledge of local history. And lastly, the existence of such a project and its functioning would be a spirit to a woman oriented scholarship would advance and foster a group of talented women researchers and serve as a model for scholarly work in women's history. It would last but not least, provide for women, what educated men have long had for their work and denied to women and Institute for Advanced Studies oriented toward women and directed by them and focus on feminist scholarship. So we now here to ultimately alter the structure ideas and proposals, and then we can discuss them all together. And, yes, would it be possible discussion? Right now? Okay, why don't you take how long about five to 10 minutes? And then we wouldn't have time to talk about it. Okay, well, why don't we then just take let's say, at the maximum Unknown Speaker 47:48 15 minutes to discuss this, and then nobody else? Is everybody on the board that would facilitate it. Okay. Would that be agreeable. And just really discussed, sort of, Unknown Speaker 48:02 you introduce the point, but it's stimulated with thinking, the part about certain roles being relegated to women as far as taking care of society. And I can really identify with that hasn't been a nurse for the last nine years. And I've become more and more interested lately in people I've been added to roadmap analysis. We're in here at ascribe this sort of evolutionary process through medicine as a field, but we know that medicine is traditionally a big deal. And one person has gone a little bit further than that, before in the birth of the clinic, where it's as almost a non gender approach. Women are seen as a globe, where there's a necessity rather for a more holistic view. And I think that's what you talked about. Going from the marginal Part Two, the center. Yeah, I think once we reach the center, then we were conscious of what we thought of before as being intuition and knowledge scholarship, call it Unknown Speaker 49:04 something else is a very good example of where actually patriarchy, patriarchy has become an anachronism destroying human society. Because as medical scientists advance more and more and in the United States is scientifically it's at this highest acne, medical care has deteriorated more and more, and has become a question of a male specialist who no longer knows anything but the right eyelid. Or the less the heel or whatever he is specialized in, and a group of women and very frequently even nurses have been drawn into this specialization so that the actual care of the ill patient as a human being is less to orderly and practical nurses who are frequently most either men or women are members of minority groups, and who are rescuing the patient from In total dehumanization, by that which has been relegated to them. And this is called medical care, not just Picture to yourself the transformation, if women and what women, no one must do with sick people were to be the model by which one gives medical care of the highest order. That's a good example. Unknown Speaker 50:21 I like this idea very much. Unknown Speaker 50:24 But I would like to see as conceptually expanded quite a bit from teams. Selected scholars Unknown Speaker 50:39 much larger groups of Unknown Speaker 50:40 women could be learning your scholarship, but maybe contributing some questions that Unknown Speaker 50:48 might not ordinarily come up. But I think Unknown Speaker 50:52 you're quite, you're putting your finger on something that is this was the brief version that as we as I started talking about it, one of my idea what ideas was in this, that say, if you had these teams is it, the teams has to be technical. So the scholars have to work but each team of scholars would cost around a group that would hold a week long conference or seminar, on the one hand, and on the other hand, people who would fuel into it in terms of In other words, the the teams could themselves be centers for schooling, and learning from women. Out there, I agree with you, I think that needs to be worked on when I was in this particular proposal trying to do is to have a manageable proposal that somebody might pick up Unknown Speaker 51:45 what the one of the problems that I'm having that I think that we're all in the bay zone, essentially, is the combination in your proposal. Unknown Speaker 51:58 If traditional approach and Unknown Speaker 51:59 scholarship technologically on one hand, and results, which we hope will be interesting, but what I'm hoping that we can begin to work on ways of discovering is a new technology of scholarship, that will be recognized as scholarships, along new lines of activity all together. Whereas that which now I understand, I mean, you want you want a utopian result, but you want that level to get there by getting somebody to be interested. So it's not all that utopian in that sense. But you just said, but that, that that will reach me. You mentioned your lack of an operational vocabulary. And I think that's fundamentally my concern, but it's not a question really. And it's not it's not a common question that was raised, if I won't Unknown Speaker 53:01 say anything now, because Unknown Speaker 53:06 I think that Unknown Speaker 53:09 it's something that I've come up against again Unknown Speaker 53:11 and again, Unknown Speaker 53:13 in my short span of academia, I went to City College and then Melania. And what happens is, especially in such a proposal is the demystification of scholarship, and research. I did a little research on this, about five years. And I was encouraged by one good neighbor, certainly traditional. But he was interested in my thoughts on my family's point of view, we really must. And he said, he's certainly not, you know, he's really trying to accomplish, Unknown Speaker 54:03 he will probably Unknown Speaker 54:04 have a theory of attendance. So that, you know, I think that if you're really interested, if you already have the technique of research, and I'm really interested in it, it's not that difficult to learn research. I have met women who have written books that are considered scholarly that are not followed. It depends on how rich you are, how much you're willing to, you know, do certain if you're having a difficult time, you know, you find that we can come up with quite a successful as you said, the material is so rich. Yeah, so little researchers. Unknown Speaker 54:47 Okay, I'd like to continue that from what you've just said, Yes. I think that there are a number of books that are not necessarily scholarly, but that they articulate female experience. Unknown Speaker 55:00 Western medical generally Unknown Speaker 55:02 acknowledged even by women in general, or men for that matter. One example that comes to mind in the book orgasm by military Bishop, where she talks about sexuality is related to biology and talks about as a concrete example, the Unknown Speaker 55:18 muscle, the Unknown Speaker 55:20 pubic coccyx muscle that you utilize in childbirth, if you'd like to help control your that also relates to our sexuality. And she, in that book articulates the fact that Indian women and other primitive civilizations have that knowledge they had exercises that they use. Today, how many women are aware of that muscle and the implications of that muscle? That's just one example. But that if you if you have you go through the experience of childbirth, how often does your gynecologist instruct them on the use of that muscle and sexuality is to enhance your sexuality. I don't think it's I think, to relate to scholarship to the practical thing. So it comes to mind. To relate it to read the experience of life, you might draw from some marketing techniques that I use now in marketing products. There are so many shopping centers throughout this nation, there are research centers set up to find out what hair products a woman uses and how, which one is the most sophisticated, and that has been developed so highly. And it seems to me that's something that's not as important as something Unknown Speaker 56:47 except I think that we should make a distinction between doing research on contemporary women, which is very important, and it's your field and you click on that on complete temporary society. But I feel that as an historian that the research the restoring of the historical past of women, has a different qualitative impact than finding out with women now. Unknown Speaker 57:13 I wanted to return to your question, you were troubled by the fact that the revolution reached only the kinds of questions asked, but not the methodology so to speak. As far as I'm concerned, I am troubled by at least the uncertain as to what I wouldn't be stration on your part as to what do you conceive another methodology would I can understand what a feminist problem but I don't understand what a feminist scholar limited down? Are you talking about field work participant observation, qualitative research world as done by men excellently on their own topics? And the list takes one case and tells you what happens in great cognitive decline? Did I make my point? Unknown Speaker 58:13 Yes, absolutely. And I wasn't suggesting an answer. I'm simply raising the same question that you are raising, perhaps more articulate, like, I don't think we know yet. What a feminist scholarship is going to be like, I like the word scholarship redefined. I do not consider myself a scholar, although mine involves an academic, but a scholarship is not defined. I don't want to be Unknown Speaker 58:36 well, can we? Can we leave that question open, give everyone a chance, who has not yet spoken and then the other? Unknown Speaker 58:45 One another question that might be important to deal with is culture and dances occasion of childhood. Unknown Speaker 59:00 But also, I mean, women also this is how an anchor pointed out and closer social distance to men to any other minority groups lives in relationship to its crest. And therefore what Unknown Speaker 59:13 I wouldn't even I would add it even in an adequate women are the only oppressed groups. That is the in fact the indoctrinated of the ideology that oppresses them. There is no other such group. There are groups that unwillingly participate in their own oppression. Say for example, working the working or the taking a Marxist approach to them the working class until it becomes class conscious perpetuates its own oppression. There's very different women even after they have consciousness still indoctrinate to gender differentiation. So that is an historic phenomenon. I think the clue to that and that might be an answer to the question there. Komorowski raises. You see, let's take the book by Adrian rich, whatever you may think of every part of it. It is an enormous leap forward in conceptualization, on the basis of research that some of which the academe will not considered good research, whereas other parts is impeccable. But the important thing about that book is simply not the research alone and the argumentation In fact, the book is weakened by it, in my opinion, what makes the book so extraordinary, is in fact, the poet's the poet's ability to take something everybody has seen all of history and all of our lives. And to look at it and give it a new Gestalt and to say what we are seeing as motherhood is not motherhood, but motherhood under patriarchy. Well, what I mean by that is, it's that kind of thing that has to happen to us, as we sit in this institute, the methods will come out of the enterprise, we will do that we do not know what they will be, but all of a sudden, I believe they will take on a different check. Much of it this interdisciplinary Unix than that. Unknown Speaker 1:01:13 You mentioned several times for me for interdisciplinarity. Yes, yes. And I was very glad to say that because I hope to soon have a PhD in American Studies, and interdisciplinary field. However, I'm very aware that this is a minority approach in it. And we're switching for example, at some point toward American studies as an example of what we were talking about. And in the same at same time, you're talking about the need for display, we're talking about women in the disciplines who are feminists who are doing some of the most creative work coming out. And I don't know whether you're saying whether you consider that in this in America, I don't think we're necessarily because I know that sometimes that's not work that's working within a discipline focused on feminism. So my question is, in your Institute, where will the synthesizers come from? Given Unknown Speaker 1:02:11 the synthesizing will come from the fact that teams of people with special life knowledge will formulate the question on the basis of a synthesis of methodology? Rather than asking only those questions, which you as a sociologist can answer or you as a psychologist can answer, which is what we usually do. And now with a computer, we only ask the questions that computer cancer so as a result, we come up with this incredible slice of something that has never existed that never will exist, thank God and, you know, all right. So I'm saying that that's, I think, where it will be in back I'm Unknown Speaker 1:02:50 concerned something that I'm really worried as traditional technologies of scholarship this morning in the forefront, a lot of emphasis about Unknown Speaker 1:03:05 understanding identity. And if you have given the basis Unknown Speaker 1:03:12 for critical inquiry, some sense of confusion about present reality that moves you on into considering a new reality, a new paradigm that would have been satisfactory insecurity to the federal prison situation. I wonder whether critical inquiry is really a male orientation, the knowledge and therefore some of the explanation of why women have been able to live with this situation of what we are now defining as oppression because I think that's probably a male maybe Unknown Speaker 1:03:50 some conceptual singing, dancing, childbirth, whatever, that we can't identify with the thickness of the head. Now I would bet Unknown Speaker 1:04:02 the woman next year I hear us all talking about the same Unknown Speaker 1:04:07 ways like Jessica used to Unknown Speaker 1:04:09 tomorrow and then all this I just hear another yes but is there some way of bringing in the fine art you proposing or bonds or assessing the logic that the Advanced Institute and if you don't mind being that almost by definition, women Unknown Speaker 1:04:40 in prison have already had to go through the certification process? Yeah, I trust you and you Unknown Speaker 1:04:46 trust me but we're not so sure about her claim horrible. On the one hand, Adrian, was that you and renowned unapologetically. And where are those other insights that we found that we all have? Unknown Speaker 1:05:08 That said, I don't think we have another proposal that addresses itself to it. But I also think that we should not under misunderstand that this utopian proposal is the cure all for everything. Just one small thing of the main things we have to do, you have not? Yes. Unknown Speaker 1:05:27 I'm just wondering if, in fact, we have experienced sculpture that we will experience a lot of oppression. And therefore anything that we do is more than just trying to institute it has to be a liberation in anything, whether it's your techniques for the results, or the means by which we approach it. And so that if we take seriously who we are, and begin to define what we want, from the basis of that, perhaps that's one way to develop these tools to reach, for example, a small group to see our group. Now, I know that there are accountability to that there are many times when people are ready, from time to time. But I think that what is specific about the small wins group is that it said, we will take the time and space, and a time to be away from the Patreon. For this particular amount of time is one in which who we are, and in beginning to see who we are in describing each other to me, lo and behold, look at all the commonalities. And it was based on those kinds of commonality, that very moment that last 10 years, gone, you know, began to make self health clinics, Unknown Speaker 1:06:51 etc. This is how in the history of women, every single thing that women have done, they have done by such communal actions of women. And that I think is a very significant thing, which we don't really know enough. That every everything that in the history of women has been done by women getting together with other women, Unknown Speaker 1:07:12 along with another one. You don't allow it to be Oh, yes. It's one thing to talk about it as a mode of increasing privileges. I understand that. But now, if you address another question, to that experience, you need the methods of scholarship to find out if you want to discover what has been learned by these women about themselves. What did that did? You need to take a psychologist reality's story and whatever with his social skills? It's one thing to ask the question, it's another world get the answer. And the only value free concept that I understand is not to allow your own values to distort the logic of evidence. And in the second part, that's precisely your Unknown Speaker 1:08:20 why don't we I think it's a very important question and one which, you know, it's it's a fine line that we're all treading. We would like to be as rigorous as possible. It's the question that was asked this morning about feminist criticism, not everything goes just because we're validating the female experience, obviously. But on the other hand, maybe for a while, we have to allow a lot of things to go that we're not sure of and see whether maybe we can come up with something new. I would I would be more liberal on this, the newer, what I would like to say is we promised to people a chance to speak and who have ultimate structures to report on, if they could each take no more than 10 minutes, we can then have a little more general discussion. All right, and Unknown Speaker 1:09:04 say, Well, I have to report on an alternative Unknown Speaker 1:09:07 institution that was Unknown Speaker 1:09:08 founded about a year ago, and some pretty modest compared to what verta has been explained, let alone horses existence under the law, the state of New York with IRS tax research industry, which came out of a number of years, and came out of the feminist organization, the local chapter, and I won't bore you with all the acronyms and whatnot, which have been very active since 69. And pushing for affirmative action, pushing various resolutions of VHA convention about ageism, various kinds of sexual discrimination professional etc. And I think probably the emphasis, as many many people in this room are founded before the crash of last summer But already many of our members who have been teaching as adjuncts in the city system, we're no longer going to be teaching. And we had at the 75, I think it was convention of the HA presented a resolution asking schools to give professional affiliation to their PhDs who were not employed in the academic world so that they could continue to function with a professional affiliation. It became very clear to a number of our members who went to try and cash in on that, as it were, the institutions in this area from which they had gotten their PhDs that nobody had any intention payments of attention to it. Furthermore, we realized that a lot of people would have some kind of community identify even within the hated, which was the case in some of us. Nevertheless, we're no longer going to intellectual community of any sort. So excited for three year old, it took about a year from the first time it was discussing, it took about a year to get an operation, which began with a set of operator customers now that last 30. Now we have a number of problems. And let me talk I think, from the perspective, what we've been talking about here today about the most important, frankly, money is a problem, we're operating totally labor as a verb ourselves, our members, whether they are still in the academic world, or not, are my son or getting the upside down world, the nine to five jobs, one at a time, pressures and whatnot. So it's very hard to float, an organization, I'm totally volunteer labor in this in this kind of situation. Furthermore, I might add, that that's part of what's created. But it's also part of what's making it difficult to get the whole thing together is that many of our members are very big crossroads in their lives, and their lives are up for grabs, and all sorts of friends, and certainly professionally in many cases, earning a living. So that in other words, our members have a whole variety of needs, which we would like to serve. But they're also busy sorting out their lives. And it's hard to get enough people putting in the time to try to deliver the kinds of services on a volunteer basis. That we would like to, I would say that one of the most successful things we've done this year was the sponsor, a careers workshop and the rap, the word alternative we're trying to get out of that mindset should have been an academic path, never this horrible turning in the road. Now your second class choice, but we'll help you do it. So we had a careers workshop. And we're hoping to have some kind of follow up on that, indeed, to try to develop some expertise on career ship counseling for academics, to address specifically to their needs. Another problem we had was that, again, across our 1000s of creative problems, which is reassuring, but that we began rather quickly to get inquiry once our existence was known from women in other parts of the country. And that created a problem for us because we can hardly get our act together in New York, we feel strongly about women, many of whom are very isolated, much more than we were before we have visited, at least we have feminist groups. And so that's been a problem, do we go national? Well, we can hardly, you know, as I say, deliver relevant services to our own members. Unknown Speaker 1:13:28 But on the other hand, what do you do when you get these cries for help for the wilds of various other places where women are feeling very isolated? Another thing which we are discussing more and more? Yes, precisely what come up here again, and again, that is to say we are recognizing with far in our different ways individually, but it's all mounting up to a screen, the extent to which, however, alienated we were from acting, nevertheless, we were socialized by, and we're having trouble breaking out thinking about what we're, we're trying to do as an organization, we're having trouble breaking out of whenever, for example, we get requests for grant proposals from organizations who want outreach in the communities through some kind of historical presentations or whatever. Our members aren't used to thinking of those turns it off, because one doesn't do that, as an academic one of the dangers of scholarly conferences. And so, as I say, we're really coming up very quickly against the limitations although we see ourselves as kind of pioneers of creating a structure outside the university. And may I add that we are not totally made up of adequate historians by any means are quite a few historians, still in academia, who do not have electoral community have their own requirements, surprise, surprise, and who are our members I might add, that we function on an intellectually very decentralized basis. The unit is the research group and these are formed by members. According to other interest. And that I think is the only way it could be done. But But again, it's messy. It's hard to get people together. It's hard for people to find each other who are really, I might say that we're talking about 109 people at the moment, and to decide what they want to do. And it's also presents a problem and omics is such a big problem, Monica may come V one, because the essential quasi Institute for most of its members is the research group, which means a group usually have somewhere between three and a dozen people who meet on a regular basis. The problem is, how are we going to assess an intellectual community as a whole at the moment, we have forgotten to address that. So anyway, even more modest than I thought, when I came in here today, but all I can report is that we're struggling with all of us and beginning to realize the enormity of the problem. The Institute for Research in Unknown Speaker 1:15:58 history? And could you just say where the people who can join? Unknown Speaker 1:16:02 Okay, why don't you tell people who, ah, gosh, I should have brought that membership thing. I believe there was an AMA a or above, and then there's, I forget what the other provision is, because we did not want to limit it to people with a certain kind of union card. And I can't remember how that is worded. two letters of recommendation for people within the institute. And if you don't know anyone, now, those arrangements can be made, either through your attending a research group, in something that you're interested in, or meeting with people who can then recommend you add a statement this we have to take away, but we do ask for a statement of commitment to the two major ends of the institute, one of which is to advance research and women's history and the promotion of women scholars. And we, by the way, I might add that the question of admitting that, of course, very early in the game, because we want to tax exempt status for branding purposes. And under Title Nine, we did men and it's very interesting, some of the reactions with some men who claim that they're feminist and whatnot, but they will not go through this procedure. They go through it for any other institution, of course, but they don't want to write a letter. They said, Well, of course, I agree with this and whatnot. But you know, why? Why do you take up my time bothered, which I think satisfies Unknown Speaker 1:17:28 the testimonial, I just joined this group. And I think there must be other women like me, classically, because the salesman in a time when my vocational career progressed, and I needed without question, I found myself in a situation where I was trying to complete a PhD or dissertation where that was boring, and that's very difficult. And this group was supportive, why a red flag is there, and I'm a Unknown Speaker 1:18:06 member of this group. Unknown Speaker 1:18:09 Not as active as I should be, Unknown Speaker 1:18:10 I just like to call your attention to the very creative and ingenious ways in which women have wrestled with finding new ways of dealing with the with this situation, and giving each other support. And the very difficulties that and spoke off are really, as you say, creative difficulties, because out of them comes a search for different solutions. One, for example, is that the Institute has served as a base for people who want to get grant support for a project and who are not affiliated institutional, and you know, what grants, foundations just don't give you money, unless you have some affiliation. And that's a way so I would urge any historians here who are working historians, give this group support, join it with funds, who it's really a very worthwhile group. Now, I've promised you equal time and Unknown Speaker 1:19:06 fascinating, so Unknown Speaker 1:19:08 I don't know where to start. They introduce your organization. I work in the Office of Research at the US Commission on Civil Rights and development psychologists, I'm finishing my PhD on the topic of improving girls occupational potential at UCLA, and the Commission on Civil Rights is publishing my dissertation as an official record of the commission. I'm also commenting a journal on the future of women with Sandra Tangri, who many of you know and she's the office director in which I work. And I'm incredibly excited about this idea. And just out of nowhere, I, this conference came about and I can't believe I've been here before and able to talk about this idea that I've been working on independently. I cannot talk about it in 10 minutes. So what I'm gonna do is talk about as much as I can and then invite any of you that want to contact me or talk to me, outside of these bands, or after four o'clock to do that, when I'm talking about as my entire life store, and what I wanted to get my life doing, which is develop establishing in five years, that's the time that I set aside for how long it will take to initially establish in the real world, the Institute for the discovery of women's potential, the purpose of, I'm not going to be all about it. And I'm going to say that right? To start with, it's about as grandiose as you can get, and okay with me, because I'm really inspired. And I love the process of what's going on the purpose of the Institute, and this is that grandiose that I can get. So I'll start with that you know where I'm coming from, is to transform the world. Not in my lifetime. When I see, I've been working in women's studies, since I'm still young, I'm 27. But as long as I've been working in this area and Researching or reading, I have seen that the world out there as it is now is totally a male world. It is created by males. It's based on male concepts, male structures, structures, male language, I really heard what Gary just said. And even in here, the radical proposals we were talking about, I've heard a lot of male concepts being incorporated into them, we don't even realize how entrenched we are in male concepts, the very concept of success, of opposition of funding of granting of research of validation of making wrong and criticizing what I want to found my bit my institute, and I should even call it my institute, I should call it our institute. Because that's that's where I'm coming from is the foundation of love. And what I've been working on definition of love and starting it at the level of the individual needs, what I mean by love. And I have that definition, moving that to love at the level of relationship, and then moving that to the level of an organization. And our institute, our Institute's going to be based on foundation of love, rather than the way institutes are set up now, which is based on accountability, lack of trust, suspicion, making wrong criticism, and all like that competitiveness, all that women I feel are into supporting each other. They can criticize each other, like someone said earlier today, but they're about supporting each other, loving each other. Creating love in the world, the world out there now is based on has lot of hatred, and wars and battles at the interpersonal level, at the country level, when I see international politics, what I see is two little boys having it out and trying to be right. And instead of supporting it. And what I have done a lot of my insights into this, this whole idea come from my relationship with my research associate who also happens to be my best friend. And who also happens to be the consumer today, unfortunately, she's here in spirit. Because we've been working together in research and building, what I've called an underwriting article is a synergistic model translating feminist ideology, into a synergistic model of feminist research, which is not where we're not competing with each other, she happens to be my official research assistant, and what we're doing interpersonally our relationship is transcending working on transcending our roles to support each other. And when we have all that worked out, when we went, I can give her ultimate responsibility over her own life, even though she is my research assistant. Unknown Speaker 1:24:05 Because of her intention to create research that can help support women. And when we can work it out, we're going to expand it into a network based on this sort of model. And the whole institution, I want to be based on a model of the data that I'm talking about. And I've developed so far, who I would like already based on my personal contacts to be on some of the people on staff and the advisory board. Jesse bizarre is one of the foremost people that would be on the advisory board on the map. And you can't tell me I haven't talked to all these people. So I can't say they're deeply on board, but I just happen to know people. And I worked up an organization and every time I worked at any aspect of the institute, I looked at it and I said is this a male concept? And usually they were organization is a male concept. I divided things into categories. I worked up the products, products is a male concept, we can just be with our experience. And when you when you said that your institute has already already exist, what struck me is that my institute already exists, it's just the male world have funded it, and given us little ink, because each of us is our own institute for the discovery of potential, we can discover our own potential. And by doing that, we can communicate it to the people around us. And so inside our very being Yes, rather than having to do, which is another male concept, do something, show a product, prove yourself, but my being who I am, I am discovering my potential. And what the institute is going to be about, I hope is about the discovery of women's potential through research, which is similar to traditional research, and we use similar paradigms. But also, it will be about its own discovery of women's potential, because we are serving our potential as an institution. And it's going to start at the level of my experience, our experience, experience of the institution. Unknown Speaker 1:26:16 And can you just talk a little bit about what areas Unknown Speaker 1:26:19 Okay, who wish, okay, it's just what I what I just what I did was I plotted out an organization and I right away, I was getting into hierarchical arrangement. Me the president, I don't want to be the president. I mean, I would love to be the president. But that's coming from the way things are today. I want to we're all part of the institute, because we're all we all have women's potential, which is totally, I believe that potential was tapped the world would be a very different place, we'd be transformed. And the organization that I just divided the world into the categories that I see, women's potential leadership is totally untapped. There are some women leaders, but they're not leading the world. Leadership is a male concept. Okay. I know I'm talking about something which is really far out and weird and crazy. And just saying that you probably don't think I'm insane, but I'm doing it anyway. Yeah, just just an Unknown Speaker 1:27:12 illustration of what you're talking about leadership. Say, Well, I'm a Frenchman for now. But in France, when women are placed at the head of origin, strongly administrative position, subsequently, the organization has been structurally reorganized so that the woman has almost no power whatsoever. So that Unknown Speaker 1:27:33 sort of illustrates we Unknown Speaker 1:27:35 might be in a position of leadership. Unknown Speaker 1:27:39 Maybe I'm talking about the very concept of leadership, maybe you may take one Unknown Speaker 1:27:43 more point and let the people respond to Unknown Speaker 1:27:47 artistic creativity. In other areas, women's potential is untapped business, health, women's sexuality, humanitarianism, communication and the media and relationships. It's a very big way. And that's where men and I've got a lot of people talking about this says to me, Well, what about men, and I say, you want to be part of it. Great luck, and how men can join us men can help capitalist potential. But we know man, I know what potential and it's out there. And we don't know women's potential. And so then relationships would be motherhood, sisterhood was the community in Unknown Speaker 1:28:20 which you're just given one thing of how you would go about, okay, what topic when I Unknown Speaker 1:28:29 was setting up units? Okay, yeah, having everyone, I mean, spent five years developing these ideas. So I don't have a job. What I want to do today is mentioned the idea and advise people to start contacting, I want to start setting up brainstorming sessions for coming up with $7 million in five years, and I've already been working on it and that's why I don't want to go through traditional granting agencies and funding sources. I want to go to women who've never funded anything like this before. And I'm already considering various ways of doing that. What I'm doing is inviting people to share with me in my idea, okay, the research methods might be field evaluations of various innovations, which are coming up as is all the time right now, but my dissertation is on looking at the effects of car groups on transporting women in a particular aspect, okay, doing an event, like a program evaluation of the effects of arts therapy on artistic creativity, and that's not an idea, but that's something that might come out of that unit headed by a person that would have expertise in in that area. Other methods would be very non traditional methods, such as looking at our own self discovery as an organization is rewarded for that unusual discovery and going to the retreat and transcribing the brainstorming process and what comes out of it. that sort of interaction. And then you would have traditional techniques like interviewing with outstanding women in each of these fields. But yet the concept of outstanding and focusing on outstanding people in the field in question. And that's I have a product here semiannual report with finding, I'm not trying to get on any, anything, I'd say that the business what I came up with, I would want to say I wanted this to be five years. In five years, for five years, after two years of me, we come out with a report from each of these units with the findings and recommendations for what a proposal for what research they wanted to do it within two years of designing what what the questions were to start with, and then an annual report on our own discovery of ourselves and our potential as well as Unknown Speaker 1:30:51 I'm gonna have to limit. Unknown Speaker 1:30:53 I see, I have to say that I feel that the time limitations, what I'm talking about are, I understand them and accept them and accept them. But yet, I have to acknowledge the certainty of it. Unknown Speaker 1:31:09 Well, I Excuse me, but I do want to defend that because you shouldn't really put something important like that just asked to have a panel or a paper Unknown Speaker 1:31:17 really hurt the idea. I mean, I didn't Unknown Speaker 1:31:19 know what I mean. In other words, if you had asked for space, you wouldn't have Unknown Speaker 1:31:23 seen that you can make the rounds. So Unknown Speaker 1:31:28 I'd like to just now say we have 20 minutes left, and I'm at your disposal for whatever you want to do. But I would suggest that we just had a free for all talk about whatever we want. For three, or 430. That's great. Well, then we can we can carry out but we said that we will take a half hour and actually work on utopian ideas ourselves. But that gives us 20 more minutes to discuss and if people want to ask you questions, I was I really wasn't getting no no, I understand. I'm trying to say I feel an obligation that we should discuss what people came to discuss. And you know, you should have you should at the Future Conference, you Unknown Speaker 1:32:01 know, just I had known about the conference. Okay. Unknown Speaker 1:32:06 Can we have just a few I mean, I want to just open the floor generally. Some people haven't spoken. Yes.