Unknown Speaker 00:22 came back so cancel okay John there is no such Unknown Speaker 01:49 thing. When I was listening to it here I was comparing it to the other two and holiday the interpretation of the song is more that almost like she always except a god to leave and to stay away and they're like this like tragedy Sydney and that sort of trepidation always was lost and I haven't enjoyed it But I'd like to find my father, but it's actually given it to me and she expects him to come back. But she's not going to buy into the whole thing left forever as I hear that. For that, feel this is days what goes through, and that she'll get over it, which is a very modern interpretation of the song. And I really feel her service to the songwriter as well. I think her delivery for us. Just, it's very clear, it's very clearly, and it isn't as much as Unknown Speaker 05:45 perhaps owning the song as a holiday. But I think that she does service to the song, Unknown Speaker 05:52 but she's doing service to a tradition. Unknown Speaker 05:54 Yes. And I think she's a very modern singer in the wish she she's Unknown Speaker 05:58 interesting, because I plan for graduate students, and a lot of them I mean, my biases or Huracan clauses felt the same way did you do to dismiss a modern way that made this music, you know, accessible to them? Again, I'm sure people let me start here with go back. Okay. Unknown Speaker 06:17 I want to say that everybody in this room I find that I'm disturbed by the things that can restore that I don't hear I hear that she's identifying the voice completely. And with a little help, in fact, as well that she really is, I'm the person because my brother, I find with the other two interpretations that I'm looking for as a water wave. Most of us when we're using the situation is having been having been left by your lover as metaphors for a kind of much more pervasive tragedy are a lot and in a way, I should say, I'm a really good singer, a real pleasure and singing this precisely and choosing and hitting the E and holding it on that was really an art thing. But at the same time, she's saying, but the words aren't really true to say, I think as a black singer in those days, she would probably say, you know, I've been beaten down you know, I've been oppressed. Believe that aside, I'm gonna sing you this song about love. It's a metaphor for a lot of things that have happened to me but it's also not really true because here I am seeing for you and I thought and we're going to enjoy this play a little Unknown Speaker 07:46 bit. And I will also say me yourself. Unknown Speaker 07:51 And I think it's funny that I've taken it into myself and I'm doing it Unknown Speaker 07:54 for you. But you can use it you can distance Unknown Speaker 07:57 yourself from the lyrics because we're playing with an hour I love whenever she says love for me, it's always great diction, a little bit of the advertisement Linda Ronstadt midnight I can see ya, I find that Billie Holiday also absent herself from from the text of the time, and it letting the listeners make all the things they want to have it in and see it as an artifact not not being typed on her because she sounds so desperate and so low that when she did, the magic moonlight dies, you can you can hardly contain the shame and the embarrassment of having the word. And just as I was saying, She's way down below the text. Encoding employ wordless help. Then she comes out Unknown Speaker 09:00 with the line Unknown Speaker 09:02 at break of dawn, there's no sunrise, which is much less but the dual election of learning. This is where the Unknown Speaker 09:11 word doing from here. Unknown Speaker 09:14 At the end of the session, she pitches off again and she was my lover. It's not it's almost as if she's held back and I tend to headlong into oblivion Unknown Speaker 09:24 lovers, when Unknown Speaker 09:28 they hurt her tormentors way, way, way bigger than ever waters better than he can live Unknown Speaker 09:41 because it's just about love. Unknown Speaker 09:48 No, no, no. I'm being quiet now because I already made it but the strategies you're talking about are very interesting ones and what you said to in terms of how you impose yourself Move on to the art but also do with some service Unknown Speaker 10:35 I chose it the I chose it for the very simple commercial reason that this is one of the best selling these two albums she's done. Well popular songs really are credited with the revival of this kind of music you know he listened to W ne W which has been plagued with music for years. They're always like Linda brought it back we're getting the robber you know if it accomplished a major commercial who in that way and that one Unknown Speaker 11:14 well, that's that's a that is a part of the history of this music also how you will homogenize it to the radio waves, you know, which singers sort of become me if you will, Johnny Mathis is a very I read in some way, they're always the ones who most adapt themselves to the current rather than the studio. Which you know, if you put it if you like, it is in some way do injustice to the current time or if you don't like it, you know, you're just right along there for for the ride, you know, whatever, whatever the medium wants you get it. I'm interested in the connections are legion, I happen to be interested in how this kind of music reflects a whole kind of social and artistic history that women are involved in multi and there's really helped pioneer that does have to do with everything from very intimate musical consideration to ego as an artist coming in, you know, to clash with the material given you to know how the musical and cultural social, emotional being used for all sorts of ambitions, all sorts of lies, if you will, the hiding forage and the depressing other, you know, the ever water song in a way. First, she does the kind of heart ballroom version of it. You know, she was a wonderful man that she could do Bay West, she could do, you know, these sorts of 20s dowagers. Up in the middle, she meant to do this with just the middle. I'm going to give you a kind of part version of what they might hear those dirty clouds. And then she goes, then she goes right back. And there's a whole history. Billie Holiday represents a musical advance a movie with a sort of classical tradition of, you know, voice instrument so much more into kind of American speaking tradition, how the American voice, you know, transforms the words you use and also know certain previously unexpected temporaries phrasing most improvisation moves into reshape a very fixed time. When I'm interested in neurons, what is she doing that is making this music very, very palatable and desirable again? And is she doing something? Is it coming back? And really a retro to you, as you say music? Or did you find it acceptable? Or is it possible in some way to renew this somewhat musically, and lyrically for women limited body music? Unknown Speaker 13:45 And if so, how, you know, how Unknown Speaker 13:46 is one to talk to the singer, Unknown Speaker 13:48 principal and have long, you Unknown Speaker 13:50 know, some kind of integrity? That means February 2, I need my private office. I mean, I certainly see that when you were talking about your response to that I wasn't the least bit interested in Unknown Speaker 14:08 that because to me, hopefully any of those Unknown Speaker 14:12 because it was homogenized. Yes. The Nelson one original musical idea, that is a good point because the history is is much the history of the kind of orchestration and the irony is that this Unknown Speaker 14:28 means that the lyrics to looseness and take the capital musical sound as a security Yeah. Unknown Speaker 14:38 Therefore can more Unknown Speaker 14:42 I'm a finding Unknown Speaker 14:43 that means that the lyrics meet in Unknown Speaker 14:48 that fluent now, the response to me because Unknown Speaker 14:54 you're not listening to the music. It's a powerful voice has been highlighted. Unknown Speaker 15:01 Total launch. Unknown Speaker 15:05 That's interesting. Unknown Speaker 15:06 I find it when I listen to her, she has absolutely no faith. I mean, she, to my ear, I have no interest in what she's saying. So Ergo that I don't have any interest in the whole thing. I mean, I really lose interest fees, which is a very insidious, I mean, as a serious implications for why this is so palatable. I mean, fishing completely should be pays it should be. It's like her interpretation sort of, do you use it and have any kind of pain or power that could have gotten into? It? Right. I mean, there's really nothing there. There's no Unknown Speaker 15:39 there. There was one yes. But what is the package? Unknown Speaker 15:43 It's it's airs that sort of pre digested lovely background music, maybe. I mean, maybe that's what people Unknown Speaker 15:49 background romance. Unknown Speaker 15:53 Maybe people my age, in their mid 20s, early 30s. Remember learning to dance to music like that in their living rooms. Only it wasn't this, it was a real thing. So it got this familiarity to it that's very comfortable. But at the same time, it has absolutely no channel. I mean, there's no challenge there to listen or to hear the pain or whatever is Unknown Speaker 16:18 just just up quick that occurs to me so that one can link some of these diverse things. You will those of you who've seen Manhattan in Henan, Houston's will remember that Woody Allen more than any other film director uses whole new their arms. And in terms of like you said, I'm trying to think on my feet. It's interesting, because when you hear it, I I'm a sucker for it. I hear Louis Armstrong, even Harry James version of the movie, and I'm happy because I think music, movie music is some of the most primitive and horrible, and it's relationship to you know, the dramatic narrative is horrible. But I hear that and I go happy. And then suddenly, I started to get angry, because I realized, he's giving you that carpet, the carpet is the dissolving of this old music. And over it are his words, which are taking something from the comfort of the feelings you're getting from all this old music and are taking on a certain kind of timeless glow. You know, that makes you not pick? Here's a funny remark. But you know, there are a couple holding hands walking down the street, it gives them a sort of universality and credibility, they might even tell you what to take on. So it's yeah, I'm going to tell you that I have it here. Unknown Speaker 17:42 Trivial Pursuit. Unknown Speaker 17:47 So each one, Unknown Speaker 17:48 whoever it is. It's a great trust that it's a song that I think I've very rarely heard of. And usually, you know, they certainly may lead towards bounded answer about you thinking. Not sure what the initial probably. Yeah. Yeah, I can hear that there are only a few once in 10 hours, and you never know, I should I should have looked it up. Yeah, I just Unknown Speaker 18:16 sort of responsible for easily say, rather than saying that, because we use your package as existence. I could Unknown Speaker 18:27 easily say that perhaps that is the message of the messages made accessible. There's a modern sensibility, which can recognize and respond, see the message, if it is a sort of stylized stylization might resort to the other side, where once the stylized, sort of, as I said, and that in fact makes the model just seemed implausible, that feasible interpretation Unknown Speaker 19:05 was that by by creating a highly, highly stylized Unknown Speaker 19:12 where there's nothing at all Unknown Speaker 19:13 original music, musically intrusive Unknown Speaker 19:23 or the imagination Unknown Speaker 19:25 that then pushes in terms of the lyrics, but to me, the the message of the word has lost its meaning. Precisely the NFL and what I'm saying I guess apart from the speaking further that sense sort of homogenized, I mean, commoditization is simple as that Unknown Speaker 19:58 and certainly reassuring. He also I would say was what you were saying about everybody, the other two singers in some way in some dynamic relationship to this headline, the music and the lyric lyrical text and her just the pure Unknown Speaker 20:16 love, it's just, it's like, it's like it's a badge of experience of badges, Unknown Speaker 20:25 self congratulatory, Unknown Speaker 20:28 and also an acceptable form, if you will, of emotional music. You know, the same way Woody Allen movies are for an upper class, the way supported upper middle class, the way certain TV shows might be for another constituents. Unknown Speaker 20:39 Three seconds, one doesn't feel an angst about an experience that is suggested with these songs with this lyric, which I don't think it's, you know, and terribly Excellent. They're not going to make more of the song. Ask them to I think, I think she's doing service to add, she's, I think, what I get for the song and I really feel like what a 30 but that's alright, because I've got it I'm very vocal is that she's doing service to when I feel is a contemporary experience that she isn't extreme she isn't nor she's something that she does not feel at. However, I do feel that she's a turkey and how she does feel now if we're in disagreement with how she does feel or if we associated strictly with your applications. And we're saying that perhaps that a modern experience does not do justice to interpretation of saltstick temporary society and that perhaps the only good times now we would go back to where you were right at the beginning the thing is, is that you can't revive or rebuild the fire whatever these types of songs that they belong to different periods but that would be a true to spell that because at the water first thing and then 25 years later, holiday did add she rethought it during another period so Unknown Speaker 22:12 that we can use possible that the conditions the the given this sort of charming conventions, you know, the way in February, were so vital for this, let's say, let's start with the 20s 20s to certainly 20s to 50s. And then you know, it began to shake your tone this music was so vital for over 30 years, they so matched the conventions of the largest society, we know that they kept even with you know, a most marginalized version, a certain kind of, you know, mass culture, you know, a lot of appeal and that really in some ways perhaps certain things have changed so much for the challenge so much that they can no longer keep that kind of present day journalistic if you will musically journalistic vitality, and either move into some kind of classy news it can be mean he used the word user because there's no room for people to educate and not to have their own music or they become a kind of art song though ironically, a lot is made as much an art song maybe any kind of saving any kind of any kind of real you know, maybe for a certain kind of popular romance music or tradition to continue with we would have to come from somewhere you know from the world of conventions musical miracle set Unknown Speaker 23:34 up on popular songs you with Unknown Speaker 23:38 a certain set of maybe we're putting in a certain type of social entities let me do two colors for you because this is a Rodgers and Hammerstein so called the classic female whenever get by love to deploy I'm talking to you all know this right one of the first American usable said to have the seriousness of the opera because words and story were completely integrated remake of an old lonar my column so think of American music Rogers in their reside very consciously creating a kind of ballad that was meant to be a tribute to Central European valid hearing, if you miss certain kinds of very fixed, paralleling first I'm going to play the theme some back and use on the shop, Quincy Jones during version died a Washington now this was done in the 50s in 1961. And what you're going to hear is a lush orchestral arrangement battling with a backbeat that is country and know that the blues which represents this range moments were popular radio music of this of this sort was suddenly being besieged by rock and roll. And people like Diane Washington were taking these popular values and pushing them into a kind of jukebox r&b country in a way, but also trying to keep a kind of, you know, violin laid almost Nelson middle arrangement that would make them palatable to older viewers. So you're hearing a lot of passions, you're also hearing a singer who comes out of black gospel music and blues but moved into jazz trying to impose that style or work with that style in a song that essentially is all kinds of Mikado soprano things Unknown Speaker 25:42 you know, it's interesting I shouldn't normal I didn't know oh boy yeah, he was a young boy who came along in the 50s and you know one of these again this goes to hire we play trumpet I think when Basie played with a couple of big bands then moved into a range and you know work with a lot of great people I said you have to ask for it you're going to miss Carrie to come and Peggy me talking this is this is strange Unknown Speaker 26:49 all right this I do want to pass around this is the mini guide and watching has been I think probably I like to Unknown Speaker 27:11 say. I love you You? You Unknown Speaker 29:29 verifiable now that means just play this version of the new Barbie size and album. Again interesting cultural shift here Barbara as you know began as a wunderkind of Broadway music units kid from Brooklyn who mysteriously understood this brand larger, worldly, sophisticated, beautiful woman tradition, none of which she was supposed to be the first content share town she's fighting I think she has a Brooklyn accent. But she understands you know, the great leaders of his music. Then history passerby it was a rock and roll here but she was our age meeting and her meaning for me in her 30s and suddenly she has this danger of becoming this dinosaur you know she's doing Hello darling and this Janis Joplin so she moves out to Hollywood starts making movies and starts you know if there's such a thing as non sexual misuses, which of course there is like you know, recording with everybody and we get down to some you know, anybody who doesn't matter this whole range odd range of whoever is the top rock star at the moment records with Barbara and is glad to because that gives them a kind of hop Broadway credibility that they don't have his rock music position, but it gives her a kind of an Oprah moment and Barbra Streisand you know I'm not Carol Chen younger sister. Now I'm having done all of that and the baby stuff very rich she moves back this year into I'm returning to my roots as she calls it not nothing else but the Broadway show. I've been away for too long and the prodigal daughter I'm returning to the music that made me and I'm bringing it implicitly you know this time I'm bringing it my world because he's gonna ruin a lot of things for me very deliberately layer now you never know what know that we put it on I put it feeling Let me try my little tape in case something was just not Great? Unknown Speaker 34:36 I have like a funny comment for some reason ever since you played with the rod stone you thinking? Joan Sutherland versus Maria Carlos. And I don't It's not pop culture. But when I first heard Sutherland Unknown Speaker 34:53 I wept. I have never heard anything like it after that Unknown Speaker 34:57 I cannot stomach whistling because she is nothing but a fortress. I don't understand where anything comes from, or what it means. And for some reason I mean I'm sure it's a far from Paris. But the Ronstadt voice the I didn't mean that she had a feminist interpretation on the sort of point of care with the laser doesn't really, it was empathy. It didn't matter what the lyrics were, in some ways it almost doesn't matter what you use it, because it now I understand that, you know, but for me listening now, and I listened to this album before it's that there's something pretty, that has to be limited. It's not an intelligent music or an intelligent lyric. Now for some reason, when I call us never cared whether her voice she cared about the drama that was going to come through the music and if it meant she caught her voice, or it sounded like a jagged edge, she wouldn't do it. Sales was a little less that but often that and for some reason I've what I've been trying to think of is the metaphor of forming and how I used to talk when I was not a feminist we used to talk about the performer can never be the genius. Oh, the creator Yeah, hi. But thinking about how you can make creativity Unknown Speaker 36:24 and how it's how it isn't unknown how safe Unknown Speaker 36:30 the thing is I'm not hate this. I hate this music this but I like the album. I hate the West Side Story Unknown Speaker 36:39 thing. I hate it I Unknown Speaker 36:40 hate this song. I hate her trip. Trisha I Unknown Speaker 36:42 don't like this song. Unknown Speaker 36:44 What out? No, Unknown Speaker 36:45 I never like even as a kid I did a couple of times in my life I had to taste what I liked a lot on this album I don't like the West Side Story was something that I hate that is on this theater. So can I find for a more interesting struck? I Unknown Speaker 37:08 think that even when, when you mash them together, there's some of that combined, you know, it's shocking to me all these years and your runs that he does and producing these incredible periods. You know, he's like making sculptures in the mix costume Museum. Oh, yeah, I listen to her and I think Damn, she does know how to deliver you know, a lyric she knows how to create however false, you know, the same way a good actress in the worst piece of slop in the world will a certain moment of believability enrages me, but I think it's I think it's there though again, I'm thinking it is bringing words back some highest acceptance and revering I cannot think of the lyrics in some way that is just shocking to me. Unknown Speaker 37:57 The current sort of crisis has been written by American fiction in this false one batch of the new short stories and bright lights big city being Unknown Speaker 38:07 the quintessential example short term beginning of Vietnam Unknown Speaker 38:10 Well yeah, but I mean it's real good technique if you're saying the technique is great and there's no soul somehow is morally deficient or there's something again there's no there there me and once that culture I mean what kind of culture is consuming these messages that aren't really messing with just impotent enough not to be threatening or or agitating? Unknown Speaker 38:30 Well, is there an artist that you can suggest and then the job to put you on? Is there any contemporary artists who you do feel hassle because I Unknown Speaker 38:46 know she hadn't Unknown Speaker 38:54 question is here are all all popular famous popular, famous popular artists like to be curious to fit in holidays. Relationship. Billie Holiday lives on. Unknown Speaker 39:30 Experience they listen to Unknown Speaker 39:38 what they put their mind also, you know, they might listen to things we're looking at that their contemporaries would have probably hated. Unknown Speaker 39:48 But we're talking about mass pop culture and as pop culture was popular. Unknown Speaker 39:56 But they are not sure I agree with you and I'm not sure that that's fair, I think A lot of this music, which is why I mean, the Calandra that it deserves the last as much as a lot of later on. So, you know, I really, really do I believe a lot of movies deserved the last year alone. Unknown Speaker 40:12 I'm talking about the fact that there may be people looking at the same thing for singers who are not famous for talking about mass pop culture. I'm not talking about classical music is constant poppin. Sure. Right. And so we may hear 50 years somebody who is likely to die Unknown Speaker 40:31 very popular Unknown Speaker 40:34 culture songs. Very special, and forms. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 40:46 Yeah, no, that's fine, too, but also future generations. You know, I'm obviously setting it up as in some way, you know, it all feels perilous. And oddly, you know, what's the future with an art form? And what does it say about the culture at large? You know, I look at things now that my equivalent 50 years ago, a little book I've been horrified by and I can only tell you, because there's a surface, you know, prettiness and the music, the singer and those pop moments where everything is just working just right together. Who will, you know, but the history of it is is endlessly fascinating to me. And as I say they still do this. I'm always a little reserved when a forum you know, reaches a new form, however sophisticated genre of homogenization, it doesn't necessarily alarm me in a department store, but it does here. I'm curious as to who these other people are, who will do something with this if something can be done. Other than what to very slow pass Unknown Speaker 41:43 people. Unknown Speaker 41:47 Anyway, yeah. We didn't need it because it turned out to be wrong.