Unknown Speaker 00:02 Hey Unknown Speaker 00:05 everyone Unknown Speaker 00:19 going Unknown Speaker 00:25 to have four speakers Unknown Speaker 00:30 last week Unknown Speaker 00:32 here to store Unknown Speaker 00:35 the summit Unknown Speaker 00:37 in Belize late Unknown Speaker 00:40 but they probably won't like Unknown Speaker 00:55 oh Unknown Speaker 01:02 Right Unknown Speaker 01:52 seemed like this week Unknown Speaker 01:56 we knew what Unknown Speaker 02:06 was going on Unknown Speaker 02:15 this is fine Unknown Speaker 02:21 we started a little after to figure Unknown Speaker 02:25 out Unknown Speaker 02:35 not easy to figure out Unknown Speaker 02:43 why what I would love to do is to have something as an experiential workshop, I now know how to work with Unknown Speaker 02:52 somebody, I don't feel like talking to people and I don't think you can get as much as I want to tell you about myself and then and what I'm doing and we'll try and do some of what I'm doing. And then I think we can talk about Unknown Speaker 03:07 this clearly and Unknown Speaker 03:11 close the door Unknown Speaker 03:18 and I'm Unknown Speaker 03:22 working on my PhD dissertation with the policy department. Unknown Speaker 03:29 And basically my my idea is that Evelyn didn't Unknown Speaker 03:34 both help the larger society perceives that there is a new right calling themselves health family, you know this implicitly or explicitly anti or anti family. And as we as apologists interested in kinship, I found that theoretical model to studying kinship did not define Unknown Speaker 03:55 me and that both of those things went against my Unknown Speaker 04:00 equilibrium. So I decided to do a study and Unknown Speaker 04:06 part of it will include this theoretical discussions which in anthropology, which are necessary necessarily told them in some way Unknown Speaker 04:22 okay Unknown Speaker 04:25 so what I want to do is really find out how let's get into font family and we go to the What do you mean, what do you need millions of children? I mean, anybody I want to find out how each woman so mostly interviewing and asking, How do they keep asking her family? So I thought as there are lots of issues that I put up before I did it and then a coming up consistent things that are coming up in the interview. And I thought that what would be interesting is actually a kind of happiness Unknown Speaker 04:56 guarantee that we could just go around and talk about how we Unknown Speaker 05:02 And then I think that the issue I guess is that Unknown Speaker 05:06 the issues that I I want to talk about when it comes Unknown Speaker 05:11 to larger discussion Unknown Speaker 05:15 this is like 50 people squished into one Unknown Speaker 05:22 circle yeah what did I just did yeah Unknown Speaker 05:56 whatever Unknown Speaker 06:07 how do people feel about what's Unknown Speaker 06:13 going on Unknown Speaker 06:15 No Unknown Speaker 06:19 Oh they did oh Unknown Speaker 06:39 to Unknown Speaker 06:43 someone feels uncomfortable Unknown Speaker 06:46 I can take yeah you know there's walking Unknown Speaker 06:52 someone sure that you can just turn the camera off Unknown Speaker 07:12 just got added two persons I want to get the start okay Unknown Speaker 07:19 so who do you feel Unknown Speaker 07:25 the obviously my Unknown Speaker 07:28 nuclear family Unknown Speaker 07:35 but then and why are they why me my family Unknown Speaker 07:40 I'm going to ask questions Unknown Speaker 07:42 I don't mean no no trick question and I'm not Unknown Speaker 07:46 I'm not I want to say what it is what your definition is Unknown Speaker 07:53 well I consider my family to see a special connection to the experiences and not to the special relationship between them Unknown Speaker 08:03 you know, especially with my brothers or someone I can talk to keep Unknown Speaker 08:10 talking about our experience as a kid and what that means Unknown Speaker 08:14 you know when changes are going on with the whole family Unknown Speaker 08:19 so that takes Unknown Speaker 08:22 I'm Tony Unknown Speaker 08:27 and today Unknown Speaker 08:30 I would say to my lover Unknown Speaker 08:33 in this a special relationship Unknown Speaker 08:37 and how much Unknown Speaker 08:40 so Unknown Speaker 08:42 what is it I mean there's you talk about everyday everyday experiences everything you do is shared too much Unknown Speaker 08:53 kind of thing when you make plans to make Unknown Speaker 08:57 big changes in your life Unknown Speaker 09:00 that's important for Unknown Speaker 09:02 someone I would call a friendly flexible Unknown Speaker 09:06 making a major change in my life with my say if I knew that my friends could change Unknown Speaker 09:13 plans Unknown Speaker 09:15 with a lover or with a family that doesn't change Unknown Speaker 09:24 so that seems to be something enduring Unknown Speaker 09:28 despite Unknown Speaker 09:31 Okay, is there anybody else? Unknown Speaker 09:45 Okay Unknown Speaker 09:49 well, Unknown Speaker 09:52 I feel to Unknown Speaker 09:55 the people that that raise Unknown Speaker 09:58 their Unknown Speaker 09:59 hand Unknown Speaker 10:00 All right shared experience. Unknown Speaker 10:03 And then even people that are hesitant to I mean, I don't even know. But I feel like we all Unknown Speaker 10:12 have a relationship with Unknown Speaker 10:15 the Unknown Speaker 10:17 people you love. Unknown Speaker 10:19 Weather Unknown Speaker 10:22 I have interesting issues with the biology on it, because I'm an ad t. So I'm also looking right now to my biological. Unknown Speaker 10:34 So I feel very much a part of, you know, Unknown Speaker 10:41 sort of representing the tuners and the Tarot, sort of all of those folks family, you know, but same time, and they're definitely my, my family Unknown Speaker 10:55 into terms of having that relationship, that Unknown Speaker 11:00 sort of that enduring relationship, you know, and I think that's a lot of that, you know. Unknown Speaker 11:13 That, like whether or not I like it, and I can't swim, you know, that part of it, like, Unknown Speaker 11:21 if I need some Unknown Speaker 11:23 more, you know, but the family, I feel that I have to, Unknown Speaker 11:31 I have to be an electrician. Unknown Speaker 11:36 And that that's an important thing. And there's, there's tradition and all that. That's not shared to friends, Unknown Speaker 11:45 who may be it may feel very important experience in my life. But we do not have the same guy that had Unknown Speaker 11:57 to be 20 years of Unknown Speaker 11:59 being Unknown Speaker 12:02 and being part of their Unknown Speaker 12:05 movie. Unknown Speaker 12:08 The people who are issues? Unknown Speaker 12:11 Well, my parents, but Unknown Speaker 12:15 But I logically, you're not Unknown Speaker 12:19 meant to say yes, I do. I do. But save time, I'm looking into my work Unknown Speaker 12:26 as a parent, Unknown Speaker 12:28 in I think them, yeah, and I say my birth mother. Unknown Speaker 12:35 But Unknown Speaker 12:37 the relationship, if I ever find them will be the same. I mean, they won't be the way to me need to work for our customers. Unknown Speaker 12:51 And then, when it when it comes to people who are friends Unknown Speaker 12:59 they are like a family to me. Unknown Speaker 13:04 Because they're not people I just want to get to know I mean, Unknown Speaker 13:09 they're, Unknown Speaker 13:11 they feel very important. Unknown Speaker 13:17 That Unknown Speaker 13:21 is pushing families home and all that stuff, and my family is appealing Unknown Speaker 13:27 to my, my friends or the people so I can go into the evening with more Unknown Speaker 13:40 I think to me, that's a feeling of family. Unknown Speaker 13:45 And I mean, you sort of call the gay lesbian community family, you know, and, and I do that and it really feels that way. You know, Unknown Speaker 13:54 we have a concert so that, you know, all of the women and the men who come to that concert are women and men who generally ideologically or, or politically or, you know, feel similarly as I used to there's, there is a sense of like going home for Christmas, you know, and there is a sense of shared experience. And for me, I guess this family Unknown Speaker 14:21 because it is a very similar feeling. It's the shared experience of like a whole bunch of Christmas carols or something and that's like, one feeling of shared experience or I don't know concert. And the energy that's here is very similar to get Unknown Speaker 14:37 some Unknown Speaker 14:39 weather that Unknown Speaker 14:42 you would Unknown Speaker 14:44 eat into your bathtub. Unknown Speaker 14:48 And your birth mother biological father, and you're single. Unknown Speaker 14:54 Yeah. Unknown Speaker 14:57 He is biologically my parents. Unknown Speaker 15:02 and Unknown Speaker 15:04 friends are live Unknown Speaker 15:21 think at this point Unknown Speaker 15:24 then I have to send Unknown Speaker 15:26 the cursor Unknown Speaker 15:28 where I'm straight and I have to go check Unknown Speaker 15:33 that Unknown Speaker 15:37 out Unknown Speaker 15:39 honest quiet when is called a traditional family. So, my mother and father are still looking for ages that we share Unknown Speaker 15:49 I have two children Unknown Speaker 15:52 and for a long time, but the main obviously that was the the family that I was attached to Unknown Speaker 16:01 when I became a veteran and finally came afterwards Unknown Speaker 16:06 which was nice Unknown Speaker 16:07 but Unknown Speaker 16:09 and how are you Unknown Speaker 16:12 45 Unknown Speaker 16:15 And Unknown Speaker 16:19 and practicing Unknown Speaker 16:21 but the point I'm making is Unknown Speaker 16:25 that change because while they you know it is not something that is described Unknown Speaker 16:34 not in so many times as you could say it Unknown Speaker 16:39 can be shared even by experiences. So after that Unknown Speaker 16:49 that other women have gotten involved with Unknown Speaker 16:52 the movement Unknown Speaker 16:56 and with that formula I felt was a family of very very SHARED ACTIVITIES Unknown Speaker 17:05 becoming an MS two was interesting other kinds of things which are which Unknown Speaker 17:11 again those shared experiences with us Unknown Speaker 17:14 and as communities in those activities became another focus of mine Unknown Speaker 17:20 and I felt close to them I do feel I shouldn't take them up of course because that is a very vital part even though I have not Unknown Speaker 17:32 eliminated myself by any means from all the condition and in the family and Unknown Speaker 17:38 so it's nice Unknown Speaker 17:41 to Unknown Speaker 17:43 hear hearing Unknown Speaker 17:47 but Unknown Speaker 17:48 they're definitely Unknown Speaker 17:56 not the same me came out Unknown Speaker 18:04 so you are not alone Unknown Speaker 18:10 and we were married yeah Unknown Speaker 18:20 once married divorced Unknown Speaker 18:27 so I have my Unknown Speaker 18:30 family Unknown Speaker 18:35 when I have Unknown Speaker 18:37 like ex husband's family my Unknown Speaker 18:41 wife Unknown Speaker 18:47 was Unknown Speaker 18:51 going on out in the mountains miles Unknown Speaker 18:57 for much less prostitution Unknown Speaker 19:01 my brother sister Unknown Speaker 19:04 relationship Unknown Speaker 19:06 and all the children Unknown Speaker 19:12 my children my son married to his wife Unknown Speaker 19:20 and my loved one Unknown Speaker 19:25 so you can go for it Unknown Speaker 19:32 let's Unknown Speaker 19:34 finally consider Unknown Speaker 19:38 because maybe Unknown Speaker 19:42 I guess they know Unknown Speaker 19:46 that lives together and I can invite you to go who's the winner at the time so I don't think Unknown Speaker 19:52 that I had when I was married Unknown Speaker 19:58 but as I say I think because she Unknown Speaker 20:00 My Unknown Speaker 20:01 wife Unknown Speaker 20:05 and I have friends who I feel very close Unknown Speaker 20:13 by with Unknown Speaker 20:14 maybe one or two Unknown Speaker 20:17 friends Unknown Speaker 20:22 to Unknown Speaker 20:24 close the ones that stopped wanting to open here's Unknown Speaker 20:29 the one Hanson's friends they're very Unknown Speaker 20:35 like close Unknown Speaker 20:40 are those things straight Unknown Speaker 20:47 okay and I get to watch kind of standard diversification when I feel very much that there Unknown Speaker 20:55 is overwhelmed with Unknown Speaker 21:01 just that we have so much in common Unknown Speaker 21:06 except Unknown Speaker 21:10 for family watch to me is so breaking news families, dinners, things like that. I still do that like we'll have on canceled Tuesday is one we need to find me Unknown Speaker 21:22 my shoulder and the second one I'm going to Unknown Speaker 21:26 do it Unknown Speaker 21:43 Okay, hi, Unknown Speaker 21:46 everyone today I guess I'm talking about our family. Unknown Speaker 21:49 Right we're going to go ahead and talk about that Unknown Speaker 21:58 I grew up with images about the scenario Unknown Speaker 22:02 like everybody else Unknown Speaker 22:05 and that's what I thought a family should be. And when my parents broke up I realized that that was not part of that. And I looked for that for many many years I Unknown Speaker 22:19 simply tell my husband just because they were asking Harriet they were very stable most Jewish family and I'm Jewish my family not their Jewish but Unknown Speaker 22:32 celebrate the holidays Unknown Speaker 22:35 and I just really got into that and Unknown Speaker 22:38 I sort of fell in love in retrospect Unknown Speaker 22:45 my life I married her son Unknown Speaker 22:50 decided well this really is Unknown Speaker 22:53 a nice boy and all that Yeah, and I thought of watching the brother but I never you know, so I came out and that's when I really just I'd like go that stuff that I tried that for two years I tried that for many years but you know we've put on American two years together been part of his family for eight years Unknown Speaker 23:14 and how will we do that? Unknown Speaker 23:17 It usually when you want when I came Unknown Speaker 23:23 in been a member of down Unknown Speaker 23:29 and I knew someone's Unknown Speaker 23:32 none of them really fit the image I don't think that attracted to Unknown Speaker 23:37 me. So when I was 20 I finally met a woman that I fell in love with Unknown Speaker 23:47 and it was after that that I and started getting into community Unknown Speaker 23:56 that's when I really found a Unknown Speaker 23:59 completely different concept because it fell flat. I mean I was trying desperately to get into this other kind of family setting and it wasn't it wasn't me really and I found that very early on but it wasn't me it was getting into Unknown Speaker 24:16 a lottery fell to these people that was Unknown Speaker 24:21 my it's strange over the years I should have developed a family with my excellent one of the closest people Unknown Speaker 24:32 so it's very odd I never thought that it could be that way but you know because you see the way straight people relate Unknown Speaker 24:40 to each other. Unknown Speaker 24:44 But Unknown Speaker 24:46 over the years my my best friends now I consider my family is Unknown Speaker 24:52 seven years and we share a house together we still do and I have no Unknown Speaker 24:59 friends Unknown Speaker 25:05 She's my family and I consider her her mother for my mother. Unknown Speaker 25:10 I've never been close to Unknown Speaker 25:12 my father. Unknown Speaker 25:16 So did you Unknown Speaker 25:19 know when so Unknown Speaker 25:22 for many years, I tried to Unknown Speaker 25:25 consider myself a feminist. Unknown Speaker 25:28 And I've never been able to reconcile the fact that Unknown Speaker 25:31 my whole life through the rest of it is to be supportive of Unknown Speaker 25:37 each other culture Unknown Speaker 25:39 that I can't get along with my mother Unknown Speaker 25:43 many years Unknown Speaker 25:45 elevation, which is another person, and 50s, she had no choice Unknown Speaker 25:50 which is what you want. Unknown Speaker 25:52 And she really didn't want to be a mother at that time, she became a mother Unknown Speaker 25:57 sort of branching and Unknown Speaker 26:02 you know, wanting to make a connection. But I realized that this five years have really come to come to grips with the fact that we just don't want to show that you know, it's just wonders are those things. Unknown Speaker 26:15 So I've sort of let go of that and really consider the women around like, my loved one. Unknown Speaker 26:22 Just so happened that my most of my older brothers Unknown Speaker 26:29 and sisters have been very supportive Unknown Speaker 26:32 or in my life Unknown Speaker 26:37 most Unknown Speaker 26:39 and because they were supportive. Unknown Speaker 26:42 Yeah, like, like for instance, when we bought our house, my mother Unknown Speaker 26:47 my mother wasn't supportive at all but yes, my blender is smother. Unknown Speaker 26:52 Came over like this money and got us, you know, bought us things for the house. And you know, like that showed us a real sort of supportive and she was happy to Unknown Speaker 27:05 do sports and maybe that's not helping the poor man. Unknown Speaker 27:11 And I never felt that way. Unknown Speaker 27:15 But I certainly would Unknown Speaker 27:19 like to see my daughter and my Unknown Speaker 27:24 great friend Unknown Speaker 27:28 didn't get to we're just gonna say he was there was an accident. Unknown Speaker 27:35 That's a hard question to answer. Unknown Speaker 27:38 And the rest of it. Unknown Speaker 27:40 I grew up in a family Unknown Speaker 27:43 with Unknown Speaker 27:46 alcoholics Unknown Speaker 27:47 anonymous experience Unknown Speaker 27:50 doesn't work I wasn't able to reproduce for a few years. Unknown Speaker 27:55 And so I have a lot of siblings Unknown Speaker 27:59 and people who are ready to making up for Unknown Speaker 28:03 swimming pool Unknown Speaker 28:06 what I found is that when I first started, Unknown Speaker 28:10 I lived on my own and my experience was very much to create new Unknown Speaker 28:16 organizational systems. My experience when I went to college Unknown Speaker 28:21 I expected that all the way through my system Unknown Speaker 28:27 that didn't actually happen but a lot of my closest friends I feel he Unknown Speaker 28:36 was one of my sister Unknown Speaker 28:42 the remainder of my siblings are gathered together Unknown Speaker 28:48 and 25 now now we have a mark on holidays Unknown Speaker 28:56 get together and Unknown Speaker 28:58 it was a couple of years after I came out when my older sister Unknown Speaker 29:07 was in training us Unknown Speaker 29:13 and Unknown Speaker 29:16 your Unknown Speaker 29:18 family Unknown Speaker 29:20 in Unknown Speaker 29:23 Australia Unknown Speaker 29:25 we try to be supportive of Unknown Speaker 29:29 each Unknown Speaker 29:31 other Unknown Speaker 29:40 I don't know. I mean, it's so hard question to answer because I've spent my whole life Unknown Speaker 29:47 family has ever changed. Unknown Speaker 29:49 Also feeling like you're in control. Unknown Speaker 29:56 But I think I could do that for a while. Unknown Speaker 29:59 Sometimes Unknown Speaker 30:00 If you manage your best friend when you have that kind of relationship Unknown Speaker 30:07 I feel I mean I still often Unknown Speaker 30:10 find my record when Unknown Speaker 30:13 I think of myself as a writer and I find myself always writing about my mother father relationships I feel obsessed Unknown Speaker 30:22 with what was going on and Unknown Speaker 30:25 continuing to validate Unknown Speaker 30:28 myself Unknown Speaker 30:30 sometimes inherited Unknown Speaker 30:34 maybe just connected to by the strange but Unknown Speaker 30:38 it always Unknown Speaker 30:43 amazes Unknown Speaker 30:55 me when Unknown Speaker 30:57 is nice to know that you can come back Unknown Speaker 31:02 that's the difference between friends and my friends. And I feel like I know, Unknown Speaker 31:08 in some level do like family, Unknown Speaker 31:11 your 10 year Unknown Speaker 31:13 old my sister's was Unknown Speaker 31:18 mostly to do with it. Unknown Speaker 31:23 I think because we feel like we're not supposed to look Unknown Speaker 31:28 at it together to create something more meaningful. Unknown Speaker 31:34 I don't use those Unknown Speaker 31:38 kinds of shapes. Unknown Speaker 31:42 It was like it's very important to my sisters to talk about your body 102 around him Unknown Speaker 31:52 or she Unknown Speaker 31:56 was Unknown Speaker 32:03 very much concerned with who you are now. And what you share together might send me Unknown Speaker 32:10 a new love. Let me make certain choices music comes country, the band Unknown Speaker 32:21 Okay, great. This is your we had considered around the songs seven Unknown Speaker 32:28 we had an Unknown Speaker 32:30 eight. Unknown Speaker 32:36 But did have Unknown Speaker 32:39 a lot of similarities. A lot of variation Unknown Speaker 32:42 was my Unknown Speaker 32:44 as we were talking about what I can do, James, where she says I have two family when I was born into and in the one I've constructed. And I hear similar Unknown Speaker 32:57 people here. And I think that Unknown Speaker 33:03 that's probably not exclusive to Unknown Speaker 33:06 a lot of people construct family. Unknown Speaker 33:10 And, you know, on their biological chamber at HACC, which is Unknown Speaker 33:16 legally and culturally in America are Unknown Speaker 33:21 not defined by biology or adoption their Unknown Speaker 33:27 family, and Unknown Speaker 33:30 they know what your data will be this person. Not that many people a lot of controversy over who is your real mother, your real father. Unknown Speaker 33:41 But a lot of people don't consider transits and most of you did Unknown Speaker 33:47 to some extent or another Unknown Speaker 33:51 because there's a certain point at which that model just doesn't work for us. This has nothing to do with our lives. So it's just simply not working. So we do go off and construct something else. Unknown Speaker 34:06 So I think that the themes that Unknown Speaker 34:13 are Unknown Speaker 34:15 honest people Unknown Speaker 34:19 used to Unknown Speaker 34:21 tape record with you, Unknown Speaker 34:24 Emily, hi. Unknown Speaker 34:27 Read the image of Ozzie and Harriet. For me I was a manager Unknown Speaker 34:33 that still strong Unknown Speaker 34:37 for so many people who are entering Unknown Speaker 34:40 normal, right. That's your mother and father those two weapons out Robert guns are unbelievable after calling Unknown Speaker 34:49 on this sat Unknown Speaker 34:51 around telling my friend that she said Unknown Speaker 34:56 yes, the irony of Unknown Speaker 34:59 an act Unknown Speaker 35:00 Again, same set of fatherhood. That's another one that was for me Unknown Speaker 35:05 Kitten Unknown Speaker 35:08 so we have everybody has notions of what is normal family and so many people Unknown Speaker 35:14 out there experience, but I think it's particularly tight Unknown Speaker 35:20 we don't get legal recognition for our relationships and everybody has lovely names or longer as as affinity Unknown Speaker 35:28 but we have no Unknown Speaker 35:31 society that addresses that. Unknown Speaker 35:35 Legally or socially. So if you already have this visible if you don't if you don't have that, and I think it's one of the points that I want to make, which may not be new to Unknown Speaker 35:49 people, but it's like, at the end, apologists are really creating a new camp Unknown Speaker 35:55 that addresses to the creation of new things. So basically we're changing kitchen Unknown Speaker 36:01 none of you here have children outside of Unknown Speaker 36:09 the planet Okay, great. Unknown Speaker 36:12 And you both were married but we had your children Unknown Speaker 36:17 and I think that the sharpest Unknown Speaker 36:20 teacher that is the newest Unknown Speaker 36:26 which isn't always the case and sometimes as a couple Unknown Speaker 36:30 more than one person is Unknown Speaker 36:33 not so what do you call her? Unknown Speaker 36:36 Who issues if your lover doesn't get invited with you for the holiday? How are they going to relate to her baby she's just that Unknown Speaker 36:49 so many of I'm also like to work with Unknown Speaker 36:53 so many people experiencing these problems as their own personal problems or emotional problems and we talk about in therapy and we talk about them with our friends Unknown Speaker 37:04 but this really is a significant social change was really created in Unknown Speaker 37:10 Rawls theory a new a new kind of stuff Unknown Speaker 37:14 and people hate that word but in terms of description it because why come to terms with people use to describe the relationship with other Unknown Speaker 37:25 people Unknown Speaker 37:32 day okay partner the partner Unknown Speaker 37:45 friends Unknown Speaker 37:48 so Unknown Speaker 37:56 I'm sorry my blog Unknown Speaker 37:59 my girlfriend she's aware Unknown Speaker 38:07 so when you say that you are Unknown Speaker 38:10 so tired you want to say what does make me Unknown Speaker 38:15 any longer Unknown Speaker 38:25 not Unknown Speaker 38:30 wait Unknown Speaker 38:46 there's so much power stroke Unknown Speaker 38:50 relations Unknown Speaker 38:54 um, yeah, I feel like I don't know Unknown Speaker 38:57 why Unknown Speaker 38:59 you feel like that means you're going to do Unknown Speaker 39:04 what you do isn't isn't as important what you're wondering. Unknown Speaker 39:09 Well, if you Unknown Speaker 39:12 were to say that neither of the Unknown Speaker 39:15 morphic Unknown Speaker 39:17 fields are important to us Unknown Speaker 39:23 either Unknown Speaker 39:25 it's a fundamental reason it doesn't Unknown Speaker 39:29 you think of whiteness housewife. Yeah, I think Unknown Speaker 39:34 the kids not having time or energy Unknown Speaker 39:45 Well, I think that part of the problem is Unknown Speaker 39:48 I hate the word lover. Someone says to me, this is my lover. I don't know if they know me. They were dating for two weeks and they finally slept together or they've been living together for 25 years you could secure Unknown Speaker 40:00 Word letter really talks Unknown Speaker 40:02 about the sexual relations. Unknown Speaker 40:05 Right? It's Unknown Speaker 40:07 in the lesbian community, that the gay community to know. Unknown Speaker 40:13 It's possible that it can mean a lot more Unknown Speaker 40:16 relationship. But still I know when somebody says no longer together. Unknown Speaker 40:23 So a lot of people are trying to find a word, partner, spouse, living Unknown Speaker 40:30 witness. That's, you know, they always use that in court, Unknown Speaker 40:36 in bone, heterosexual, whatever the. Unknown Speaker 40:44 Exactly. But I think, again, words are very important, because words, describe our reality, and doing the work to describe the relationship because the relationship is not supposed to exist. Sometimes I think that Unknown Speaker 41:02 you should be really careful about thinking about how we want to Unknown Speaker 41:08 leave the gay community, but also taking the male patriarchy. Unknown Speaker 41:13 Welcome, the male homosexual for a long time before leaving work out what considered lesbian, Unknown Speaker 41:21 use the term level and use the term male, female, and the first thing in the personalized experiences were put to bed, kind of early experiences. And I think that what whatever, I'm sure, anthropologists, sociologists can tell us more, for whatever reason, when we took on the lesbian experience, we took on the gay male, some of the getting better experience. And now that I think I really just I feel as though as we enter this, that we not only have to redefine ourselves, more Spanish women, now we have to get a whole new vocabulary Unknown Speaker 42:01 to disengage ourselves from patriarchal institutions. And, again, a couple vocabulary. That's why we're having to, I think Amen. to that. Unknown Speaker 42:14 Because a lot of them are well, I mean, it's, it's very true that I mean, a lot of gay men have now indicated straight men. Unknown Speaker 42:25 But a lot of them at the same time, are men who, who are striving not Unknown Speaker 42:32 to, and they really are, but outside of the picture. Unknown Speaker 42:37 I think they do need to deal with Unknown Speaker 42:41 other Unknown Speaker 42:43 things. Unknown Speaker 42:45 Yeah, I'm sure. Unknown Speaker 42:48 Things Unknown Speaker 42:50 that we talked about, I think can apply to demand. And I think it's important, I would like to look at Unknown Speaker 43:01 that time, want to get my dissertation done. Unknown Speaker 43:04 And my heart Unknown Speaker 43:08 Yeah, right. Okay. Remember later Unknown Speaker 43:12 on at the City University of Unknown Speaker 43:18 San Unknown Speaker 43:19 Diego. Unknown Speaker 43:22 This is something Unknown Speaker 43:25 I started about two years ago, and I dropped that for a year. Unknown Speaker 43:30 I'm hungry, that's Unknown Speaker 43:34 it Unknown Speaker 43:45 this message Unknown Speaker 43:47 that Unknown Speaker 43:50 you need to Unknown Speaker 43:54 think about Unknown Speaker 43:57 a couple of things. One is, it is how you say term of reference. So I would refer to the man who is my biological father as my father. And whenever when I just did my father, I have the data. Unknown Speaker 44:14 So you can know the difference between winning and progressive. And we want to Unknown Speaker 44:21 do something about finding the word that that Unknown Speaker 44:26 describes who we are to win in Unknown Speaker 44:31 partnership with a lover Unknown Speaker 44:34 that people can take a Unknown Speaker 44:36 lot of women are focusing on I'm hearing more and more the word partner or life partner, and I've asked them why they're using it. I used to hear it a lot. It was straight. We're about adults, it used to go straight people have the same problems when they have problems and they don't know what to call it like my daughter. She doesn't happen Unknown Speaker 44:58 when it comes to describing Unknown Speaker 45:00 Here's what she was referring to. And he was he was when she saw this man. And they said, Well, we only invite you if you're engaged. Otherwise, it's expensive. And we can't play with friends. So then she said, Well, I live within this and that she finds out that she's not to go and Unknown Speaker 45:19 get through. Like, I see that with my parents that they know. Unknown Speaker 45:23 They have a hard time recognizing like the girlfriends and my brothers. And it's like, to them relationship is kind of invisible unless we marry them with us too. Because like, I mean, I'm out to them and talk to them about our relationship. But when we come visit, they treat us like, as if we were unengaged. Unknown Speaker 45:44 It's like, you stay here, and Unknown Speaker 45:47 it's like, Unknown Speaker 45:48 we're never gonna get married Unknown Speaker 45:52 when we get Unknown Speaker 46:07 10 years ago, and they since had lots of other locals, but they now live together again. And they took themselves life partners. I mean, you know, we love the lovers coming out with Unknown Speaker 46:28 no money, but the feeling that they have Unknown Speaker 46:37 I sort of feel Unknown Speaker 46:40 like Unknown Speaker 46:41 other things. Unknown Speaker 46:48 So I want to take the problem that I have, because Unknown Speaker 46:52 we don't live. In fact, the fact that non marital or social Unknown Speaker 47:01 is a change in the kitchen system. Unknown Speaker 47:04 Which, of course, you know, that's Emily Post's rule of etiquette, you have to invite someone who's a gay to have a very big Irish name, who got invited to their Unknown Speaker 47:18 site, you know, well, if they're gay, and you have to, but they're boldly dating, you're dating someone to 50 million years Unknown Speaker 47:27 that you know that they're not getting Unknown Speaker 47:31 to the thing and have to take them seriously. But we can never get engaged and married. By Unknown Speaker 47:40 that, I mean, that's the way the system is set up at this point. But I think that part of what I'm trying to do is a major point that Unknown Speaker 47:48 we have to first take ourselves in our own relationships Unknown Speaker 47:53 can be hard because that really involves finding our own eternal life Unknown Speaker 47:58 and then pushing ourselves Unknown Speaker 48:02 some sort of image or a community Unknown Speaker 48:06 that our relationships sometimes are these last years I Unknown Speaker 48:11 wrote an article in science about Unknown Speaker 48:15 the problem with competition Unknown Speaker 48:21 right and she wrote about how how shortening in relationships with Unknown Speaker 48:27 teams and that she she thought it was because Unknown Speaker 48:32 it struck me as if she was addressing a kind of self self definition by Unknown Speaker 48:42 I guess, Unknown Speaker 48:44 meaning that our relationships aren't necessarily gone that many people operate in principle that it's sort of like monogamy isn't something that Unknown Speaker 48:56 is authentic to Unknown Speaker 49:00 many of life sport and leisure community life and some people say I had that I was married now I don't want that kind of work, or fight. Well, that's been straight, they get married, we don't have to stay together. We love each other we all want to see evening. Unknown Speaker 49:16 With Gregor today is wondering if you are married and you want to stay in relationship, you don't want to do that. Again, we might want to live with some but not saying it's gonna be forever, you may or may not want the same life partners. Unknown Speaker 49:32 Would I would also say that there's a lot of people who do want that. You can have it some of it may be that they haven't gotten before the birth death marriage, or and mostly you're you're 25 Unknown Speaker 49:46 So I'm betting on yourself. Unknown Speaker 49:49 Lot of the women have been interviewed. So some have been the ones who are older, do want some sort of life partner. Unknown Speaker 49:58 For some reason I think that will Unknown Speaker 50:00 When I was younger Unknown Speaker 50:06 I had that idea that, I guess especially, I always thought that gay men never stayed together for a long time. But now that I'm like, more involved in the community and like, you know, realize, realizing what I want to get ideas to. Unknown Speaker 50:22 And I know with, like, aids that but really simple to think, with the men that I know that they Unknown Speaker 50:31 like, they Unknown Speaker 50:33 tend to feel that it's important to like Unknown Speaker 50:37 more long term relationships, I guess Unknown Speaker 50:46 a lot of people are doing rings, you know, that sort of Unknown Speaker 50:51 getting made me feel Unknown Speaker 50:54 a lot of my friends, just like Unknown Speaker 51:00 a lot of my friends have just gotten wedding ring. Unknown Speaker 51:05 You know, one of my friends just, he just had a right he was like, Go wedding? Unknown Speaker 51:16 are a lot of people I know that. Unknown Speaker 51:20 That makes Unknown Speaker 51:23 it look, see you know, it's Unknown Speaker 51:27 very similar. With heterosexual Unknown Speaker 51:31 stop in there. I mean, they weren't saved. Unknown Speaker 51:40 So what did you decide? Unknown Speaker 51:46 To do? I just want to know if you could tell us why you just have requested me to you. Unknown Speaker 51:55 You agreed to it. Unknown Speaker 51:58 Would you love this idea? Yeah. Did you Unknown Speaker 52:05 actually make a commitment. Unknown Speaker 52:07 But she, I'm the one who's lived with someone for 23 years previously. And she's my own woman. Unknown Speaker 52:14 Mrs. Taylor is what she's had like, about nine to 10 Unknown Speaker 52:18 teachers in this year, so. Unknown Speaker 52:24 But she says, Oh, I will never get married behind the idea of marriage. Unknown Speaker 52:29 But for all intents and purposes Unknown Speaker 52:35 such as marriage. I guess I'm doing this, because I haven't been before. Unknown Speaker 52:43 A habit, you know, no cure whatsoever. Unknown Speaker 52:45 Let's just Unknown Speaker 52:47 let me well with her, because we initially are spending Unknown Speaker 52:54 it is it is kind of similar? Maybe not necessarily. So maybe lovers like to exchange tokens? When there Unknown Speaker 53:07 was traditional? Mutual, I guess it could have been airing it could have been could have been anything. Unknown Speaker 53:15 I think one of the things that we lack in our community are the ritual to 2k Westslope pseudonymously. No, I mean, a lot of churches and synagogues, Unknown Speaker 53:27 bless unions, or like MCC actually married people. But you know, for mainline churches. And let's begin in Washington last marriage Unknown Speaker 53:45 we got rid of Unknown Speaker 53:54 that in the let's say the rate of heterosexual stay together that commitment as opposed to Unknown Speaker 54:02 gay was in my relationship. There were other things that sanction from our institutions. I was in a marriage longer than I wanted to be for a lot of economic, financial children. So when I had my first lover, and subsequently Unknown Speaker 54:19 I feel as you do, I don't need nor do I want to entertain those kinds of institutions are those that kind of ritualization which wasn't my ritual, marriage, and all our institutions of the Western world, our mail that was not my ritual giving the bride away. That was not my ritual. And the baptism and confirmation of my kids was not my ritual, I become an agnostic. Unknown Speaker 54:43 But I stayed in a marriage for rule which I say now for unbelievable wrong reasons. But not having internalized it or analyze it. I stayed angle I know so many men and women. It was convenient to stay or whatever we Unknown Speaker 54:59 in Unknown Speaker 55:00 Oh, lesbian relationships. The reasons that I stay are much different. For the reason why I'm in a relationship where I get in and out of relationships, I don't think it makes them less valid. When it makes them. The one thing that has made for me is more honest. When I think of the manipulation of my marriage by both of us, Unknown Speaker 55:22 and everybody else, and all of that, it was wonderful to put that aside, it was finally wonderful to be Unknown Speaker 55:31 as honest, I mean, that's something we're all working on, but in a much more honest relationship. So that if it appears, that way, I see it statistically. Unknown Speaker 55:45 I think that value judgments are. Unknown Speaker 55:48 And that's why we need to talk I'm not talking already that I'm telling you my experience. And I felt I was too long in a marriage that was sanctioned so much know that I had internalized so much. It's only when I became a feminist mentalize me that the first thing about is tried to be more honest. Unknown Speaker 56:14 First of all, when we talk about how long do as being gay couples stay together? When there's research on for as a researcher, as a social scientist, they're looking at these studies, they're psychopathic, they want to find out about couples they go to Unknown Speaker 56:35 a home watching Unknown Speaker 56:41 morning here, so Unknown Speaker 56:44 maybe I'm an old fart. Unknown Speaker 56:46 My friends don't go out to bar Ximena, my friends in your 30s. Unknown Speaker 56:53 You're not immigration. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of Unknown Speaker 57:00 things have really changed because more and more Unknown Speaker 57:04 men are becoming Unknown Speaker 57:06 our own Unknown Speaker 57:09 are becoming such a science and like looking at the problems with mythologically, there are really serious problems that how to access people. And a lot of times we can only access people who do it in the organization wasn't people and organizations because they're looking to meet somebody. However, that's not always the case. But if you are already connected to a network to me, as we live, we decided to do field work with people I did say to my friends, and everyone I knew I was looking to interview some people who's the kind of person to stay connected with that kind of person, as opposed to I could advertise two wishes, right, which I have, which could happen, but it's not like I'm going to a place and have to find. So there were I mean, all the studies. Unknown Speaker 57:54 Most of them well, I don't know that Unknown Speaker 57:58 didn't put the focus on. Unknown Speaker 58:02 So I have serious problems with that research. On the other hand much. Unknown Speaker 58:14 Oh, right. Yeah, of course research study. Unknown Speaker 58:23 Survey kind of research that looks like they will like social. Sociologists do like surveys, and they look into depression years and stuff like that. And they give you a question, you may go bar and Unknown Speaker 58:36 they're not going to be Unknown Speaker 58:41 problematic. So the older research that it does look at the question of longevity in public. Key advice isn't that people? This isn't a question. It is particularly burning for people who under the stereotype have stayed with us. And a lot of us have internalized. And the other point is, who says that you say who says that together? Unknown Speaker 59:03 Why should we always want to stay together and then sometimes it's you need to learn you're not going to be with each other. And also, there are lots of if you do want to stay together and you're straight, there's more support. Unknown Speaker 59:17 I know friends who have had a hard time trying to work it out their parents who like leave a leave or leave Unknown Speaker 59:28 and you can disagree with them. That is emotional stress. Unknown Speaker 59:34 Plus all the pressures Unknown Speaker 59:40 you know, imagine having an argument on the street, Unknown Speaker 59:43 you know, Unknown Speaker 59:45 in certain environments, not safe Unknown Speaker 59:49 and you Unknown Speaker 59:51 to be out in love Unknown Speaker 59:58 there's a whole world of experience Unknown Speaker 1:00:00 Two Unknown Speaker 1:00:02 inputs, different kinds of pressures on relationships. And when you're falling prices, there seems to be all these things that push the price. Unknown Speaker 1:00:11 We don't get closer. Unknown Speaker 1:00:14 Oh, no, this is my boyfriend. Oh, nice Unknown Speaker 1:00:19 to meet you get, you don't get Unknown Speaker 1:00:23 don't get a Unknown Speaker 1:00:25 couple Unknown Speaker 1:00:28 if you find the right. Unknown Speaker 1:00:32 When you're in the community, then like I have friends Unknown Speaker 1:00:40 you expect to like but in terms of parents? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:00:48 I mean, I have my family effectively Unknown Speaker 1:00:52 reconciled yourself. Just so you know, send us Christmas cards together. Unknown Speaker 1:00:59 You know, and when she comes over every few and then she children, when she comes every June, we sort of have to be together, we pick her up to our cabin, and we have to just, Unknown Speaker 1:01:09 you know, it's okay, if we bring our girlfriends? Well, if we had, you know, that's really Unknown Speaker 1:01:19 really valid that Unknown Speaker 1:01:21 everyone Unknown Speaker 1:01:23 should all stay away from trouble. Unknown Speaker 1:01:33 That's, Unknown Speaker 1:01:35 that's it, that's a fantastic story. But it isn't. Unknown Speaker 1:01:40 And also, a lot of times our parents or our biological family, going to whatever you want to call them, who accept this potential challenge and a lot of hard work. And as friends that what transplanted together almost two years. And they're both in the early 30s. So that's basically their adult life. And you said last year, one of one of their sisters was getting married. And they got the invitation with both of their names on rather than just bad for bet. And guess what was hurtful of their names on and I was so impressed, you know, it was it took nine years for that to happen. And then finally, Number novices, given the tech support, and now Unknown Speaker 1:02:32 it's an awful lot of work, whereas there's just much more Unknown Speaker 1:02:36 and that that Wall Street people love each other. And hopefully they're even worse, but there is generally a sense of, we'll give you welcome initially, and then we'll see what happens then this? Unknown Speaker 1:02:51 Well, she was we really didn't start talking about that that much, which I would really I would love to talk to that. But one of the things I wanted to mention that that didn't come up in the conversation is the idea of rituals. And personally, I think that we need to have Unknown Speaker 1:03:09 emotional, Unknown Speaker 1:03:11 validating our relationships, being gay, you're a couple that you're in your friendship, or whatever. It's like a public acknowledgement that this is. This is important relationships here. And I've seen that people Unknown Speaker 1:03:27 have had Unknown Speaker 1:03:29 commitment ceremony that we call or something and some people call for committing. Unknown Speaker 1:03:36 The idea, I think, is that a lot of people particularly like you said, who are married and don't want to work, you don't want to do certain things that like with marriage, Unknown Speaker 1:03:46 which I can appreciate. Unknown Speaker 1:03:49 However, I think we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think it's important to create our own, really create our own that will affirm ourselves for ourselves and say Unknown Speaker 1:04:02 that this is who we are. This is the way in which we have to start thinking grow, acknowledges Unknown Speaker 1:04:09 that we can learn together which wasn't possible. Unknown Speaker 1:04:14 That's the economic reality was introduced about women. I don't know if people are familiar with Unknown Speaker 1:04:20 that article, a Unknown Speaker 1:04:25 lot of historical work on the relationship between the intense friendships that were sometimes it's rude to be sexual between women in the 18th century, however, they all married women, they couldn't Unknown Speaker 1:04:41 live separately live independently, and now Unknown Speaker 1:04:45 historically economic Unknown Speaker 1:04:48 and we're really creating a new family. And I think that we ourselves, Unknown Speaker 1:04:55 want to get acknowledged Unknown Speaker 1:05:01 Hi. Unknown Speaker 1:05:04 We've just been talking in our family obviously, you want to tell us a little bit about your family? No. Okay. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:05:13 And we You said that your partner, oh, I'm sorry, that you're planning Unknown Speaker 1:05:19 and Unknown Speaker 1:05:21 testing. Unknown Speaker 1:05:23 The thing is Unknown Speaker 1:05:27 20 Unknown Speaker 1:05:29 the idea of sperm killing process. Unknown Speaker 1:05:33 And the thought that it might, you might be one Unknown Speaker 1:05:39 of those things that really held me back. Unknown Speaker 1:05:44 And it's true Unknown Speaker 1:05:47 that you would find me so much because it's possible Unknown Speaker 1:05:56 it's pretty short Unknown Speaker 1:06:02 it's the fact that Unknown Speaker 1:06:12 I went to, I went to a symposium in Quebec and October and someone was talking about that, that somebody has done research in England, and that they've come up with a way to join eggs Unknown Speaker 1:06:27 that they hadn't released it to the rest of the Unknown Speaker 1:06:31 year, Korea's the mother machine, which is all about reproductive technology, very frightening, but then control women's bodies to reproductive technology. Unknown Speaker 1:06:45 There's definitely Unknown Speaker 1:06:49 a lot of evidence Unknown Speaker 1:06:55 that bonds be strong and each Unknown Speaker 1:07:00 genetically so if you've had this sort of Louis substance, which they found Unknown Speaker 1:07:06 can be found in it won't release him yet, for obvious reasons. Unknown Speaker 1:07:12 The mother machine Unknown Speaker 1:07:14 like Gina proving he ena furious, Sunil. Unknown Speaker 1:07:19 I thought I can't I thought this was going to be Unknown Speaker 1:07:24 interesting. I mean, that's the way I interpreted what, Unknown Speaker 1:07:29 that's interesting. Most people do think Unknown Speaker 1:07:37 but then, that's what I that's my thoughts. It's like Unknown Speaker 1:07:43 we can there are my feeling was I wanted to I have about a million things. Unknown Speaker 1:07:49 This has been great. And I'm just kind of saying that that's interesting. Because like, that's right. I that's sort of what I assumed was family. Right? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:08:00 Having having people and, and I'm, I'm certainly interested in, Unknown Speaker 1:08:06 in interested in raising and biologically bearing a child. Unknown Speaker 1:08:14 I mean, as an adult to myself, it's sort of like, well, you know, a child is a child, but I also want to have the experience of Unknown Speaker 1:08:23 biologically being Unknown Speaker 1:08:27 and sort of understand what you say Unknown Speaker 1:08:30 about that. I mean, I Unknown Speaker 1:08:32 I don't consider myself to have you know, Unknown Speaker 1:08:37 I feel like I could make like I could face a boy today, I think I sort of think that that would be important to be graded. You know, Unknown Speaker 1:08:48 let's be for raising boys Unknown Speaker 1:08:57 and raise them more children. Unknown Speaker 1:09:00 They have different than any other people's voice and it's completely Unknown Speaker 1:09:09 because I have a lot of friends that experience and thought that my kids will be different than you know if he's around the West and of course, it's gonna Unknown Speaker 1:09:21 be well, I sort of feel like he really can't like I really like my waist. Unknown Speaker 1:09:28 And, and it sort of makes me feel like it support the bed. No, I Unknown Speaker 1:09:34 feel like well, I'll go like that Unknown Speaker 1:09:43 but Unknown Speaker 1:09:46 you wouldn't Unknown Speaker 1:09:49 know. I really I feel like I really like the experience of very, Unknown Speaker 1:09:56 like every six months I get through like this period of moving Unknown Speaker 1:10:00 He Unknown Speaker 1:10:01 really wanted Unknown Speaker 1:10:05 I know Unknown Speaker 1:10:07 this has been happening for a good five years really interesting. I'm sure it's very much reminded me about it Unknown Speaker 1:10:17 because the last time that happened was when the same weekend I started to touch my records. So it shouldn't be them like that was really clear that Unknown Speaker 1:10:30 you feel very much that your child Unknown Speaker 1:10:33 right, right it's like by like having my own child I can like find like my child Yeah, my grandfather's knows Unknown Speaker 1:10:44 that or like maybe I'm ever bonded because I was like slept in hospital practical to be about some of that parents Unknown Speaker 1:10:54 and missing that font. I don't know. I don't know what that means. But sort of like if I can do that then I could sort of like rewrite my own Unknown Speaker 1:11:03 okay, that there's all this sort of motives which I think Unknown Speaker 1:11:07 you know for when I wanted Unknown Speaker 1:11:11 to rewrite my history is probably going to be that Unknown Speaker 1:11:21 she said that she wants to chat to you so she could see someone that Unknown Speaker 1:11:26 she never had the experience of Unknown Speaker 1:11:30 looking at my whole family is so Unknown Speaker 1:11:33 they're all dark Unknown Speaker 1:11:36 I look like anybody Unknown Speaker 1:11:40 well how many of Unknown Speaker 1:11:43 you to have children Unknown Speaker 1:11:51 is there any I hope to know Unknown Speaker 1:11:54 and Unknown Speaker 1:11:57 I say use like too early to say that I know for a while I'm Unknown Speaker 1:12:01 not right now. Unknown Speaker 1:12:05 And Unknown Speaker 1:12:06 how do you have children and it hasn't been part today have you? Did you have her Unknown Speaker 1:12:15 as lesbian Unknown Speaker 1:12:20 okay Unknown Speaker 1:12:22 so I can talk about anyone's seeing what Heraldo other people watch for I haven't made the error tech watch I'm going to be sometimes Unknown Speaker 1:12:35 but the Geraldo show Unknown Speaker 1:12:38 had easier listening basically believable and I said my god Unknown Speaker 1:12:46 everybody knows about it because there is a popular few weeks ago Unknown Speaker 1:12:53 ratings we Unknown Speaker 1:12:56 get to talk to people Unknown Speaker 1:13:02 Yes, Cheryl crane is in order. Everybody showed Unknown Speaker 1:13:07 they had lesbians on and they one week everybody had transection every single Unknown Speaker 1:13:13 thing Unknown Speaker 1:13:19 I like watching them Unknown Speaker 1:13:22 because I really like seeing how people respond to them. And Unknown Speaker 1:13:30 the questions that they ask Unknown Speaker 1:13:33 happening Unknown Speaker 1:13:40 what how did you like how did you like you know Unknown Speaker 1:13:44 how do you get credit and not Unknown Speaker 1:13:48 right Unknown Speaker 1:13:51 the other day had a repeat of the show on this day Sally Unknown Speaker 1:14:02 I Unknown Speaker 1:14:05 really have this woman she has a book out and I forget Unknown Speaker 1:14:10 her name is Joy Schubert she was she's living happily with two good friends and Unknown Speaker 1:14:18 family maybe you've heard of the galas publications have talked about them when she slept with these two men Unknown Speaker 1:14:27 to conceive Unknown Speaker 1:14:29 their child so it's not clear to her which one is the actual biological father as it's not a problem they will share the news. Unknown Speaker 1:14:41 And the people will like so how did you get pregnant and how do you think? Unknown Speaker 1:14:46 And so he said well, you know what I could have other How did you do it? Then once she said that they have said that she wanted to have Unknown Speaker 1:14:55 it's amazing where Unknown Speaker 1:14:59 anyone can Unknown Speaker 1:15:00 It's like, you know, Unknown Speaker 1:15:02 like you're not physically capable. Exactly exactly like, how could you do it Turkey face? Right? I mean, one guy who came on that, why do they Unknown Speaker 1:15:13 have to Charlotte, Unknown Speaker 1:15:16 which is another way that that was my friend to be on to be Unknown Speaker 1:15:22 the either Jesse current, which case you would be involved in or Unknown Speaker 1:15:28 some kind of uncle or secret. And he decided to do a comparison between them he told them that he had masturbated into an RV full arch up jar. Unknown Speaker 1:15:40 And then she inseminated herself. And that clip people on this one was thinking that this woman is that she thought he couldn't love the child because we at the moment didn't have sexual Unknown Speaker 1:15:52 sexual partner that was like for the love of the child or something. I'm not quite sure the logic was the caffeine. Unknown Speaker 1:16:01 Right? Exactly the love creates a child where it's like to take biology. And also assuming that every time people have sexual intercourse, because they love each other baby child that's produced, produced love. That's what a love child is. Unknown Speaker 1:16:22 But Unknown Speaker 1:16:24 anyway, that having children is something that I do want to focus on. Gestation was a gem general, because I think that what is one of the area that's really the most radical, most of the area treats Distraint. Unknown Speaker 1:16:40 Most Unknown Speaker 1:16:44 so Unknown Speaker 1:16:45 the question then is, Unknown Speaker 1:16:48 what do you call the woman I say to women? Unknown Speaker 1:16:52 By anonymous, Unknown Speaker 1:16:56 both of them Unknown Speaker 1:16:59 was Unknown Speaker 1:17:01 different. Unknown Speaker 1:17:05 For me, we're gonna talk about it Unknown Speaker 1:17:08 called Finding people globally. Unknown Speaker 1:17:11 And have you thought about how you set yourself to school doctor with the child Unknown Speaker 1:17:21 shower Unknown Speaker 1:17:26 one additional bond, we want to go through this Unknown Speaker 1:17:30 constant presence Unknown Speaker 1:17:33 probably Unknown Speaker 1:17:39 about about three or four shows on YouTube via of what Unknown Speaker 1:17:45 we both want Unknown Speaker 1:17:47 to train, I always wanted to have a child and I wanted the experience Unknown Speaker 1:17:52 of having a child in my life Great. Mariama just wants to have that she wants to have the emphasis on it make a long term commitment to dealing with her, you know, when she gets older. Unknown Speaker 1:18:05 And I never particularly wanted to know from personal experience, so we're still talking about that. So chances are if Mary has been all the Unknown Speaker 1:18:16 way through Unknown Speaker 1:18:23 like a mother, her mother dies, this happens. And then the mother's family says, I would Unknown Speaker 1:18:31 love a paralegal Unknown Speaker 1:18:33 and a paralegal and we talked about it and if she has evolved Unknown Speaker 1:18:41 to statements Unknown Speaker 1:18:44 on total returns it's not if you have already had a Unknown Speaker 1:18:49 buyer apparent losing a job you can you can you can make guardianship papers, and simplistic proviso that if anything, Anthony was died, but the fight died cheating custody, because I don't have any other family was picked up. Unknown Speaker 1:19:09 People talking about that. That's the important thing. Like if you've ever dies, you know, so you had to Unknown Speaker 1:19:18 terminate and then Unknown Speaker 1:19:20 apparently to take you to court and Unknown Speaker 1:19:23 legal way and put it Unknown Speaker 1:19:26 back the way you can do it legally. Just adopting right off the bat is one one. Unknown Speaker 1:19:32 Like if Mariam says, Well, I'm going back to the back of your head Unknown Speaker 1:19:36 when she can't ask us how you can do that legally, because we're not if you're both living together, right, once the adoptions done, Unknown Speaker 1:19:44 and that's one way to circumvent that. Unknown Speaker 1:19:47 You'd have to be together and cared about. Unknown Speaker 1:19:51 Together. No, no, but once. Once it's done, it's done. I mean, there aren't any social church in Unknown Speaker 1:19:59 this country. Unknown Speaker 1:20:00 So you Unknown Speaker 1:20:05 abandoning her, I don't want to have anything to do with her Marian. But Unknown Speaker 1:20:10 like if she does school Unknown Speaker 1:20:13 and you know, Mary and deliverance is the, the biological mother, you go to PTA meetings legally who do Unknown Speaker 1:20:22 that? And that's I don't know, either. Like, if you can't have bad luck with that, like, if you are personally involved now I know. Yeah, but it's an interesting and important question when it comes to things like school and doctor and let's, you know, get to get permission, you know, who does Mary sign all the permission slips and all the doctor's notes and Unknown Speaker 1:20:49 in terms of Unknown Speaker 1:20:51 legal, a lot of them are cultural in the last year is happening. I mean, culturally, when I need Unknown Speaker 1:21:00 a note from home, I need to be tactically Unknown Speaker 1:21:04 in most cases, that's Unknown Speaker 1:21:10 the I would disagree with you, I would say, Oh, I agree with that. It's in our cultural things. Unknown Speaker 1:21:16 But in most of our kitchen system is abandoned. And Unknown Speaker 1:21:20 so the problem most most instances, people can go through their lives and not have any trouble. But if there was a catastrophe, and someone died, Unknown Speaker 1:21:35 this is a great yeah. See the thing that from my Unknown Speaker 1:21:40 ad, I couldn't make. Unknown Speaker 1:21:43 Right, you know, we talked about that. That's, that seems awkward to me. But I guess if you wanted to skip through, that's one way to do it. On my phone was brand new charity. And she said that when you love we can make as your will as it can, because as can the the non biological mother. Unknown Speaker 1:22:03 Three out of term non for some reason, I wish we find a word that doesn't be non, I like to use come up with Unknown Speaker 1:22:10 the sense of people doing things together. Unknown Speaker 1:22:14 And whoever is as critical of their job, and she does, she's sitting on it. Unknown Speaker 1:22:21 And I said, Well, how can you I always thought that you can say if I die, so and so what I want her to do that she said into nominations not that's not definitely our report, my little that I want my mother's writing can be just in a will and if the Guardian ships Unknown Speaker 1:22:39 as well. Unknown Speaker 1:22:43 It's when, like, for instance, she decides to go to the bank for two years Charles American citizen, she wants to stay in America, she she wants Unknown Speaker 1:22:52 to consign got into, like giving up on the rifle where she wants to take Unknown Speaker 1:23:00 it you got to guardianship uses a power of attorney. It's kind of power of attorney. But it's more it's more to do with just it's going to do with adoption. Well, it's divided back to the person's death. Unknown Speaker 1:23:13 I believe so. Because from my understanding that it won't, that why isn't the only way you win, you have to put in your will to nominate to The Guardian. However, as nomination in most cases before it Unknown Speaker 1:23:28 will move for most people, the court will agree well, bla bla bla bla bla, however, the court does have the right to disagree with there. So that means, you know, if unless it was spelled out that you want, first of all, unless you spelled it out that that's who you wanted to take the time, it's not going to be, as you mentioned the case and she could always change the world if she broke up with you consider your challenge with the biological parents. Unknown Speaker 1:23:56 What can you say when Unknown Speaker 1:24:01 you don't have Unknown Speaker 1:24:06 a couple that great that went together. What was the biological mother, they call themselves cool mothers raised his child until about seven and then broke up in a very, very bitter relationship. And the one woman who was not the biological mother left the court for custody rights. The biological mother does not want Unknown Speaker 1:24:28 the other woman to have custody rights. I don't know the outcome of the case custody rights. It's quite different when you're talking about a biological father. But this woman insists on having custody rights claiming she is the CO mother. She has raised this child she does not want to lose sight of this child but the biological mother is saying No way. And the other woman is saying Oh yes. Unknown Speaker 1:24:54 I mean, there are men. Unknown Speaker 1:24:56 We can see all the ramifications. I mean, we're just Unknown Speaker 1:25:00 touching me of all the ramifications. Unknown Speaker 1:25:05 And we will have to address it. Legally we will have to address it in terms of the childhood to school, absolutely have to start addressing this. But I think particularly can lead with when these are precedent say cases. Absolutely. And women are diverse as this woman to go to court to fight. I mean, she did not say okay, hey, cool, take it off, I'll hide under a rock will disappear. No way. She got lawyers and other women, not lawyers. Unknown Speaker 1:25:37 Get all the papers. Unknown Speaker 1:25:40 Not equal mothers ones more than one. Unknown Speaker 1:25:44 But of course, if a couple of folks adopted a child to get them Unknown Speaker 1:25:50 adopted a child and Unknown Speaker 1:25:52 the child continues with them to read on, I know, one Unknown Speaker 1:26:03 case where they may have Unknown Speaker 1:26:06 one case, isn't the time for letting in their name. I know too many, usually one woman will adopt. And like I know, for instance, to Brazil, and they were they were given but one of them Unknown Speaker 1:26:20 presented herself as the mother adopted was presented herself as her friend and, and they kept wanting to friend, a friend of the family to help her. They wanted a friend to adopt the child because they don't want to. Unknown Speaker 1:26:37 Because she had to she chose Unknown Speaker 1:26:40 children. Unknown Speaker 1:26:49 Really the pace at which these women had an agreement and had a different new definition of what Unknown Speaker 1:26:56 it was, we're both equal mother, and you go into a relationship, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. And then you have a conflict. So then what they wanted to bring the state in so then it's like, this is the place where our definition is being confronted with the legal definition. So I know of one case I haven't heard I'm not sure if it's the same word is different, rather than one where the Unknown Speaker 1:27:24 the biological father with the comb mothers throughout their uncle's life. Yeah. So Unknown Speaker 1:27:32 I've heard of a couple of incidents. Unknown Speaker 1:27:37 Right. So the father, the legal father, since he did that he he was word support. This is the same place Unknown Speaker 1:27:49 he went to court on our behalf. Oh, I see. Unknown Speaker 1:27:53 And so he can't wait to court thing he wants it and so then his sister Unknown Speaker 1:27:58 visitation rights. Yeah. So he went to visitation rights. This event you could have it in that way. If you also make Unknown Speaker 1:28:08 the men know he knows. Unknown Speaker 1:28:11 He may not want to see you anyway Unknown Speaker 1:28:22 and like their best case is like Unknown Speaker 1:28:25 no, man in the middle. Unknown Speaker 1:28:29 Yeah, yeah. I mean, in most courts Unknown Speaker 1:28:39 I mean, it was definitely they want to because they are legally defined as the parent whereas this woman had to pick up cases all Unknown Speaker 1:28:48 at once. It was Unknown Speaker 1:28:51 very nice because they Yes, that's why she This is a question that was a sperm donor. So there's no other person they didn't you know, Unknown Speaker 1:29:00 what the, I don't think anyone in their relationship at the time anticipated this or how the whole mother must have how close you can feel towards your child will not want to lose this child because of the dissolution of their relationship. I have read it who wants to come over there it is not Unknown Speaker 1:29:24 for the fear of relationship that a friendship relationship might last long relationship with the wife stay home. And I mean she she has any discipline right yet. That doesn't occur is that and that's interesting about family because because her co parents Unknown Speaker 1:29:44 they will they will Unknown Speaker 1:29:46 not necessarily Unknown Speaker 1:29:51 ever has it all. Unknown Speaker 1:29:55 Together. Unknown Speaker 1:29:58 Talks about the Olympics. Unknown Speaker 1:30:00 Maybe they would Unknown Speaker 1:30:04 smell best Unknown Speaker 1:30:06 but in terms of even if they didn't say like half time or whatever that the young woman back at Silicon Valley