Unknown Speaker 00:00 The abstract level, right here, we're saying this, of course, I want that for my daughter, right? Then, you know, she has this this boy that she's seeing. And you know, I think like, He's so mature and you know, he's like what else is? Where else? Is he going? What else is he doing? You know? And doesn't, you know that the whole whole issue is what's going to happen to her. And you have, and people have a very difficult time. And I think our education, our educational programs, and everything, don't help. But not, they don't help girls and boys to begin to see sexuality as something natural, something that they have to gain. Unknown Speaker 00:39 But what kind of like springs to mind for me, somebody who does that kind of work, is able to change all that. I mean, come on, I have to let this go and tell this girl, look, you could die, die. Okay, you have to use this. Well, Unknown Speaker 00:56 I started out when I started, it seemed pregnancy and sexuality work. As I was telling you all, when I switched over to doing more than mentioning before, I had much more of the attitude that you expressed. And certainly in my accent has been very much affected by the rise in teens, and also by what I know about adolescents, and I've listened to development, which is that they don't follow through the tape believe each other that you know, that they love, love mice for two months, but a whole range of a whole range of things in that whole issue of cognitive development, and being able to make decisions and everything and the tremendous consequences in two of the places that I work with just today that projects the syphilis rate is higher than it was before among teenagers is higher than it was before himself. So that's what I was gonna say about how he started on STDs, I would be taking a different view, I'd be talking much more about sexuality. Unknown Speaker 02:04 You know, what was being said by your there are some things about it. And one, one is the Unknown Speaker 02:17 teenage girls Unknown Speaker 02:20 to have sex, when in fact, they wanted it when desire that quite a delay or right in there. It takes a long time to develop desire to have it be the time when you're comfortable with all of those things. It's it's quite a developmental experience in itself. So the permission and access are required factor. The other thing is, is cognitive development, against enterprises. Because these articles indicate that age 16, girls do not have the cognitive ability to win cause and effect. And recoverability. Now, this isn't likely, I mean, because we know they can read their own futures, you know, right in front of their eyes and make all kinds of decisions about what they're going to do now, because they have no future because they use clear they're really, they have quite a political economic understanding that I do think there are educational things in elementary school and junior high school about causes and about probability, but it means that I only have 4% chance of getting pregnant, how that can turn out to me that there's a very good luck, guys, that those edge, really teaching things, and how to then make your own decisions is something that this educational system is rarely doing. And that's the job. It's not that they're not ready to make those decisions. Unknown Speaker 03:56 Sexual responsibility, and you can't teach it back on a given electric guitar. And you build on it, you keep building on it, until you know, and then you know, it, then they can really make a responsible decision. And that's what the countries that have good programs do. They start early and they keep building on that decision making all of that so far of the sexual sector. Unknown Speaker 04:29 Just disagree with you on one thing, I agree with you about the endless Development at 16. But in surveys that we've done a number of seventh grade programs, over 60% of the kids are sexually active in seventh grade. I think there's real that they have had sexual intercourse, Unknown Speaker 04:46 penetration, actual penetration, somebody Unknown Speaker 04:52 other questions that essentially, Unknown Speaker 04:54 I mean, that they are actually Unknown Speaker 05:00 because we have so much trouble doing it Unknown Speaker 05:08 took me to actually understand the mechanics, the biology of my body to understand what's happening. So when you said there was a penetration in the course, and you're having a, Unknown Speaker 05:19 really being an endocrinology and so I had a pretty good, I was talking about the mean age of onset of fever data and all of this, but one of the things I think we need to stop and think about is back in the early part of the meeting was puberty for 17 years. Now, as a living, I've been dropping for every TV. So that's a real problem. So children are really able to be sexually active and a lot earlier. And I really, you know, add really start talking about the meaning for boys and for girls. This past year, I did some physicals in a school during the school day. And I was shocked and how they felt the junior high school now might have gotten all the ninth graders rather than the seventh. Unknown Speaker 06:08 Now, but I think that, you know, sexually active is a stupid, it's just the one that we have that, indeed, has any survey data on it. And that's kids who say they had sexual intercourse. And then now they say they've had sexual intercourse, you, it's very difficult to get any information about separate groups, schools are not really up for having people ask these kinds of questions. But the in the program, so I'm talking about inner city, junior high school still in place, and AIDS programs yet Unknown Speaker 06:39 13%. Unknown Speaker 06:43 of white girls have been Unknown Speaker 06:45 sexually abused. Unknown Speaker 06:49 And 11% or so of black girls. But 8% of black boy 6% of white boy, sexually abused. So you know, you're talking about, Unknown Speaker 07:04 they've had some kind of sexual intercourse. Unknown Speaker 07:08 We don't have all of these Unknown Speaker 07:16 guys today have to watch the police, they have to watch the Unknown Speaker 07:21 watch the copy. Unknown Speaker 07:25 We know and you know, if the average child abuse or abuse 250 Different within the course of their lifetime. And it's usually people that they know. Well, I'm sorry, I Unknown Speaker 07:41 wanted to, I wanted to return to the point that you were meant to mean as important. I mean, as much as we ignore sexuality, I think that when we talk about it, often we run the risk of separating it from everything else, so that you were talking about, wouldn't it be wonderful if we could say to our children, that not only can you have satisfying relationships and an exciting life, and all of these things, but you can also sexuality to think the Congress is equally important. I don't think it's realistic to to expect that young women will have the ability to take control over their sexuality, if we deprive them of the ability to take control over any other aspect of their life. And if we educate young women in a way that essentially disempowers them in every other aspect of their life, but give them sexuality education, we're giving them really conflicting messages. Unknown Speaker 08:53 The part? I think that partly is because somewhat of an issue of describing conditions and talking about strategies. And that when we're talking about this kind of education, education for critical, critical thinking skills, education, for assertiveness, education, for taking, empowering education, talking about certain kinds of strategies, which, which are very important, but they're not sufficient. That is, you need help. You need major health care strategies. And you also need to change the conditions in which we raise children. It's a different kind of Unknown Speaker 09:34 contradiction, because what what we talked about essentially was the legislation of morality and extension of and we're talking about what's really happening in the real world the need for change. Unknown Speaker 09:47 I don't know what you mean by legislation around Unknown Speaker 09:49 for instance, the teenagers getting birth control what they have access, with or without parental consent, that kind of thing is but it goes back to shooting He hasn't set. Unknown Speaker 10:02 Right. But I think that we're very, as a society very conflicted about it. But we're conflicted on all ages. And that teenagers have to, in effect, with the least resources of maturity, and cognitive skills and money and everything else, deal with it very much on their own. And what we're saying is that there should be a whole infusion in the healthcare system in the education system of strategies, that young people Unknown Speaker 10:34 out there that may guess hurt I say that all the time. But yeah, but I can't wait for the doctor to help. And that's what I'm telling them, you know, they really, that they created the problem, they've been doing their job, we wouldn't have this problem. So I just kind of feel like they're in and they don't get out helping. Helping is to help pass legislation, you know, help really go out and be supportive of things. You know, none of us support. Nobody in this room say that I support Unknown Speaker 11:12 the premarital sex. Unknown Speaker 11:22 I'm saying I have two boys, Unknown Speaker 11:24 New York, but I've never been married. Unknown Speaker 11:33 That I wish like this was many years ago, and it was the issue Unknown Speaker 11:36 that was should women have jobs. I mean, it was Unknown Speaker 11:40 discussion when that went on walk after women have Unknown Speaker 11:43 jobs. And so then Unknown Speaker 11:44 me what you liked the fact that when you Unknown Speaker 11:47 thought they should have shouldn't have jobs was that they have jobs, so we have to get better jobs. So we had to have better and safer teenagers have senses an absurd question, right? They already had. They've been having sex forever. It isn't new. They didn't invent it in the list. So when required, because his parents ignored the things right. And we have to get past that, just as we did that other question isn't a relevant question. Unknown Speaker 12:12 And, you know, Unknown Speaker 12:14 what is very much a public health question, when you find deep ravine Bill developed for adolescents, because I'm saying the rational voice for voting voice that prevents what may be the best of the medical establishment? And I'm saying Unknown Speaker 12:38 it is. I was saying that I don't hope I act on it. I mean, I'm just talking about that the the feelings that are generated by by sexuality and by and youth and I think that that, that we need to have strategies that speak to those two parents were part of the strategy is that they have a right. Unknown Speaker 13:02 And I've been I think, the problem that part of the problem probably haven't gotten anyplace, is we argue so much, we don't come together and decide on a rational policy to help improve the lives of our children. We stay back here in this moralizing walk. Rather than really saying about, you know, let's stop moralizing the issue. Let's prevent pregnancy, Let's prevent sexually transmitted disease. I mean, the reason why syphilis and DC and all that's gone up so like, it's not more teenagers than anybody else. Out there out there selling sex for drugs, Unknown Speaker 13:42 but also been either one of one of the strategies for dealing with the whole question of adolescent sexuality is, is healthcare in general, adolescents and adolescents are the most underserved population in terms of access to medical care, and to allow the whole debate have to do with reproduction when the reality is that most adolescents need a whole range of care that although they're not taking as frequently as young kids, if you look at the hospital discharge rates for gastroenteritis for severe ear infections are all kinds of things that you expect to see in young kids to see quite high rates among adolescents as well. They are still often sick often need health care have the most trouble getting to it. And if we talked about comprehensive health care for kids, then dealing with it has to be Unknown Speaker 14:31 the problems is not really a health problem. There are social issues that are impacting our health. You know, I mean, immediate didn't have a drug problem. You we didn't get it, we didn't have sex and get pregnant. That wouldn't be a problem. Unknown Speaker 14:48 You know, that'd be no different than kissing. Unknown Speaker 14:52 Me again, but it's the consequence of sex in the pregnancy, because property that keeps on and then they get STD stuff ended up you know, that's again, then they bring alcohol and drugs and gotten out ready to kill themselves or badly bruised themselves up. So it's really you know, all these social issues that are wiping out our children. And we've got to stop trying to make it a moral issue and start dealing with the social problems. Unknown Speaker 15:24 But I also think it's a difficult in parenting that cuts through all this is what I'm asking that, and especially in the new era, in the past, we had the religious attitudes before that. The church synagogue, that's what you do. And now, what do you how do you parent them? Well, and that model is not really there. And I'm saying that black, and in the work that I've done through the system thus far, is to try to help not invest the quickest to try to help black teenage black mothers, single mothers, but some systems, let's talk about how to parent. And we've done a lot of workshops for the parents and how to kind of like in general. And I think the, the real consequence of it is also that kids hear this dispute, whether they want to have sex or don't want to have sex, they hear us being so confused. And out there, some of the borrower loss and some of the indebtedness, so they can even come to you and tell you that they had a sexually transmitted disease. They don't know what they're I've talked to an adult Indian woman yesterday, you know, we have a lot of different types of our community. And she said she told her mother, that she was pregnant, and she had a miscarriage. Unknown Speaker 16:48 So I mean, that's the kind of dilemma I think, a lot of adolescent approaches. Unknown Speaker 16:55 But in in the, I thought what you were gonna say, in the past, I thought you were referring to the sexual revolution, you're referring to cast past, I think, part you were describing as the past past, and then the past the past, as, right, no, no, but just for a minute, but the next part of the past, is a period of women's liberation and sexual liberation, pre aids prior to two aids, and now there's the present. And I think that we are struggling with trying to communicate a message that's positive about sexuality to young people, that underscores their, their rights to their own bodies, and to pleasure, as well as their as well as the complexities of sexuality and the fact that there are many risks involved for them, and that they therefore have to, it's not simple anymore, we're not saying don't have sex to you're such an age or don't have sex to married or only have sex with one person, or, you know, I mean, all these things that were absolutes, in the past past, and that sort of were thrown up in, in in the middle past, I think now, are, are being raised to a level in which it's much more complex. And so what you can say to two kids in, in programs or kids that are your kids, you know, or whatever is a message that that is very positive that their development, but which requires them to engage. It requires them to engage at a different level than they had to engage before. They have to think about them themselves. Unknown Speaker 18:38 really identified with it, how they felt about their children. Unknown Speaker 18:42 It was fascinating. Unknown Speaker 18:44 I mean, all of these factors that you're talking about all came out, and it seemed to me that the main issue that everybody was complaining about was separated from their children. Unknown Speaker 18:56 There are fewer people who felt that their children did have Unknown Speaker 19:01 a right to sexual pleasure and a right to sexual privacy. Because they're already there. But because these are parents would always talk to their kids about sex and sort of knew about their kids sex lives in a certain way. They were in this position of being like sort of participant for years you know, their children sex Unknown Speaker 19:24 love, because they didn't want to. Unknown Speaker 19:26 Susie would come home and say Johnny's legal, she's 16 years old just got a little red schoolhouse parents as well. Unknown Speaker 19:40 Do I want them to go out and sweep by your bridge Unknown Speaker 19:44 again, so I like riding on the pulse safe in my pocket but then they're safe my apartments are they having sex like I don't want to watch this. So that I might condemning him I can Joanie, it. In our generation, or roughly older generations, having sex was one of the ways that you became an adult, or at least you Unknown Speaker 20:07 separated from your parents. Unknown Speaker 20:12 So it's, in that sense just alone, you know, Unknown Speaker 20:15 it's very complicated. Unknown Speaker 20:16 Another thing I found was there was a double standard second double standard, I couldn't completely inaccurate. But parents, some have said that their girls, this question of pregnancy, so the girls are going to be more emotional than the boys. But now my experience of 16 year old boys is that they're far less able to Unknown Speaker 20:38 deal with emotional Unknown Speaker 20:39 scale girls, this was the opposite of you know, talk to the kids and I talked to their parents are totally different. And so therefore, they had to protect the girls. And the boys were really kind of really around about what to do. So, you know, these this just by way of saying that, issues of separation and self other and and change the way that parents are adult are involved in Unknown Speaker 21:11 becoming adults Unknown Speaker 21:15 will be having sex still being your face. Unknown Speaker 21:21 This program also contain network. Conference Committee recall askable patterns. And what we found is that reason parents, a lot of parents, not all but a lot of times real uptight about kids and their sexuality is they themselves don't know, they're not ready for the questions, they don't know how to respond. So there's a process around that, so that the parents are more approachable and able to admit to themselves, well, I can't quite discuss this with you. But But discuss this with you. But let me refer you to somebody who can and then, you know, split their open, they know more about how to deal with it when it comes down to very different from a parent who goes to church every Sunday to the choir. And your daughter comes home and says Mom, I want to go get ready for the job. Unknown Speaker 22:08 What do you do? Do you pull out the Bible, I mean, I couldn't do this. So there has to be education for the parents, Unknown Speaker 22:13 and you brought that Unknown Speaker 22:17 up what you find out what I found. Another dirty stat is not really good numbers. But the parents who were teenage parents, you know, parents who were teenage parents, it far stricter rules, Unknown Speaker 22:31 we'll use far Unknown Speaker 22:32 less likely to really talk. And you know that because all this well, I got pregnant, I'll put a mask, you know. Whereas you don't panic. We're older and moved really poor, forward toward more plants, but they were really much more likely to be open and accepting and really said they wanted their children African American sector Unknown Speaker 22:57 that they were more likely for you alluded to kids to go out of their own place. Unknown Speaker 23:05 To stay at home. I mean, I remember reading studies about how difficult it is for kids to be a parent. You know, these studies that they saw the difference? Unknown Speaker 23:15 Well, here's a, there is a lot of studies about how difficult it is to leave your parents home. And there are a lot of studies about how homeless you become if you're a teenage mother that goes out on your own. teenage mothers who go out on their own are very likely to to wind up homeless, that it's, again, another proportion. And again, we're not talking about the you know, the majority of teen mothers again, but most of the reason that the the Claire's motivation for going on in there are the reasons given the modal reason forgiven for going out on your own is abuse. And the other is being put out. So even though it's difficult to be a teenage parent with your mother, most of us don't actually set up their own house, Unknown Speaker 24:09 finding the girls of the teen moms of being addicted with the baby or something different where parents aren't even keeping the baby Oh, Unknown Speaker 24:17 yeah. Because they're, they're not. Well, they're not necessary. But Unknown Speaker 24:25 that's you can't do that. Unknown Speaker 24:27 I mean, that's one way. But the thing that also is lesson, we will try to sit down and hear what the girls issues are, and then what the mothers issue and try to help them recognize those issues or other family members. And the advantage of that kind of organization is that we don't have to go the legal route because sometimes, and that's one thing about the rational parenthood stearic Ukraine's another map field I thought she was in high school and you really you'll react now that kind of energy that you need work so that you can call down for that. Unknown Speaker 25:06 But I mean, if I think about the individuation things that you told me about, it was so much clearer when pregnancy was followed. Pregnancy was followed by marriage in most cases, which was true until the mid 1970s. For both blacks and whites, that you left home. Now, one of the things you probably left home, it was anything like my house, I never had my own room. I mean, are you gonna have sex with your sister in your room? You do sisters in your room, it's a little bit more difficult, but not all notion. So things changed. But I think in addition, when sex when sex gets separated from from reproduction, but when also when reproduction is separated from marriage, then it becomes less clear what the boundaries are between adults. And we turn adulthood in you that are you an adult? Are you a child, are you that you're a mother? But you're also 16? You know, it's very, there are a lot of complications. Unknown Speaker 26:13 Just a question here with the presentation. And we jumped off on everyone out there. And I understand the basics. There are so many monitors. Were there. People out there. But my question is how much of the results that we're getting from the study on real estate, what happens to poverty not telling you that? Because two thirds of teenage pregnancy is not even being Unknown Speaker 27:09 mean, the question of how many more percentage of these 1/3 would have gone on public assistance if they waited until they were 20. Anyway. And Unknown Speaker 27:18 all the all the results that we're getting Unknown Speaker 27:22 the results of teen pregnancy with teenage pregnancy. Unknown Speaker 27:32 Teenage pregnancy as a whole is a million teen I mean, teenage teenage teenage pregnancies. So less than half of that results in birth. So the first thing we know good teenage pregnancy just said it's not the same thing as teenage childbearing and that the poorer you are, the more likely that become a teen mother as opposed to have a kind of a pregnancy during your adolescence. Then the second thing is everybody who the temperature don't want welfare, not necessarily not poor, are they the teenage mothers still complete less years of school and have less lower incomes consistently over a 10 year period than their counterparts who don't, who don't become mothers? But I think that it is very, very difficult to separate out poverty and teenage parents. I think that people you know, you can't say that age alone is a predictor or poverty. It's this whole notion of of it, it's the same thing as trying to predict school dropout and unemployment. I mean, are you unemployed? Because you dropped out of school? Or did you drop out of school because you already knew that you would be unemployed, given that you've never seen, you know, anyone in your neighborhood get a good job or, you know, pay off for their schooling. So I mean, there's a whole range of things that become a part of that. I mean, I think I mentioned that they are, but the opportunity costs of delaying parenthood. For them is this is the part where they say, well, the girl chose, she wants to have a baby, they had a baby for some reason. I have interviewed lots of teenage girls, we've talked about the struggle that they've gone through to not become a teen mother, when their sisters and their friends were having babies. And they were feeling left out and they were feeling like they were losing their opportunities and everything smells so different from what I felt in my early 20s. Everybody my sisters, all my my friends were having their babies when they were in their early 20s. And God I felt like if I didn't have my first baby, notice, by the time I was 25, when I was really pushing it into, you know, middle age there, you know that that was and that was the world that that I lived in and that maybe I wouldn't have a child you had to get get married and I mean, everybody was married. Everybody was having their second kid and you weren't one because what was the experience of my friends who had a different upbringing than I did and went to a different kind of college and, and didn't didn't live at home, you know, everything was the poll, the opportunity structure outside that they knew that they could have this kind of job and they could go into grad, they could go, they knew they could go to graduate school, then you were there people who have gone to graduate school and then had had a baby, we then had children. So it was it was something that you could actually imagine someone like you doing this. So I think that one of the issues that happens with with teen mothers, as opposed to just girls who become pregnant, is the notion of how connected they are to an opportunity structure outside of theirs that's really helping them and supporting them to see that they could live in another way. Because there is a cost you you could you lose. I mean, you lose your your your friends, you lose the being a part of a social network that begins to go in any particular direction, you may end up if you Unknown Speaker 31:01 choose not to Unknown Speaker 31:05 two young women that I know actually three who were clearly the first young women in their families to get college education. And for all of them, there have been really difficult family consequences. I mean, in one in one family leave that it has ranged from who you think you are to, you know, support us. Mean, and has been very difficult for there for one young Hispanic woman who got married early, in part because she had been abandoned as a child and got married in order to have somebody there she was related to. She got pressure from her mother, her best friend and her husband not to be such a good student. And a third young woman, who's also Hispanic, I mean, he has gotten not so much a direct pressure, but just that all her friends who are her age, have baby, some are married, some are not. But she looks around her and it has it takes a certain amount of ego strength to be different entirely from Unknown Speaker 32:04 her peers. And I think it's not just ego strength, I think it's saying you have to be connected. It is ego strength. But where do you get that from? I mean, it never occurred to me that I could get a doctorate when I was in college, or that I could go to law school and get married. Right now I graduated from college right before women took off in law school. When I graduate from college 3% of law students were women, the time like five or six years later, it was up to 30%. And then it was half. So it was a dramatically different time. Because they weren't, they weren't you don't you didn't see other women who were doing this, Unknown Speaker 32:42 right? Oh, the other women were interpreted because they always like in the black community. They're always in fact, when you look at teenage women working age mothers or single moment, there are lots of single mothers. And, but that doesn't get interpreted as a model. Okay, that's good. Right? You don't have a man, right? Maybe you may be supporting yourself and adding them up. Because if your mother is single, and she has a job, which is supporting the teenage girl, often, I think see that that's not being unsuccessful in getting a man and that they're going to do a difficult Unknown Speaker 33:22 thing. Because it's when you talk about Yeah, Unknown Speaker 33:25 I think when you talk about this, this issue is directly connected also, to heterosexuality and marriage. I think that's what the girls think. And I have a man a boyfriend, that I love them all that that means somehow into that because I think that's a critical question about who she is. She got to grow up to be a single mother not have a man what's going to happen Unknown Speaker 33:50 to have a child. We're not able to have a child. Unknown Speaker 33:54 Well, no, that's true about black women about not a man not having a deficit about man. Unknown Speaker 34:04 Your mother, your mother? Unknown Speaker 34:19 She sacrificed Unknown Speaker 34:25 Oh, that's not because I have a man I have Johnny takes 15 to me that that question that's related to how much research and information has been done, about lesbian Latina. Because it seems also that this is a particularly could be a particular kind of manipulation, if you are uncertain about your sexuality, and it certainly feels like it might slip and then to get trapped somehow in to the federal sector question around and I wondered about that. Is there any information about residency? Unknown Speaker 35:03 I know that this question has come up a number of times. And I mean in different conferences, or meetings and I have looked for things. I haven't found anything in doing one large study in five cities about teenage sexuality. I wasn't the principal investigator, but the principal investigator it was a colleague of mine, had a question had several questions about sexual orientation, and a questionnaire and they were not allowed to ask him any questions. Unknown Speaker 35:43 In the interview that I've done, I do have necessarily. Unknown Speaker 35:59 There also plenty of lesbians who have children, not because they're getting trapped in a sexual role, but because there's women, they want to have children. Unknown Speaker 36:11 And adult lesbians. Unknown Speaker 36:15 We also realize that men if you interviewed teen mothers, when we were doing the daycare, manual, COVID, childcare manual interamente medicine, I don't know if you find this, I think, but it isn't as if you find lots and lots of young women who have long sexual term sexual relationships where they were having sex for a year, I mean, people, some, you know, some, a lot of teen most, don't remember when this happened, or, you know, they, they talked about it being twice or once or twice, I mean, we're not talking about, you know, holistic sexual relationships, except for some percentage of them, that's what we would like to move towards. But for a whole range of kids motherhood comes before sexual development before sexual for a whole, holistic sexuality is developing all or any kind of really positive and certainly before orgasm. So it's very different. Unknown Speaker 37:10 Yeah. adoption, said that 1,000,005 out of those five, how many Unknown Speaker 37:26 of us less than 4%? Less than 4%? Unknown Speaker 37:29 And I was wondering if anybody's done. Any studies on why is so low? Is it is it, the old myth is still? There, the baby won't get adopted? And you have to take it, but that's not true. We used to be Unknown Speaker 37:49 true. No, it's basically teenage. Unknown Speaker 38:01 Years mean, that is to be nearly as impressive. Unknown Speaker 38:06 I think it's actually the flip anyway, that essentially, it's not that there's that, that the change didn't come about in these huge numbers, I mean, just such big numbers, it's less than 4%. By fears about the baby not being adopted as much as by the availability of abortion, which meant that you were, you had to make some choice at some point about going through with the pregnancy. And so you could make the choice not to go through pregnancy without being illegal, and more difficult than it was in the past. And secondly, that you had models of single mothers. I mean, teenage single mothers are dealing with the issue of whether they can become and can function as a teenage single mother, but as this means that they haven't seen any other single mothers mean, at the point that I was divorced and had one child and was 20 like 26 I realized I could I was women's roles had changed enough that you were in the workforce, you could function you could you didn't have to go back home or you know, somehow and that was in the mid 70s somehow protect this right? be protected. And so I think girls saw that then so what's the big difference between being having been married and being divorced with a year old baby or Unknown Speaker 39:27 being single? Unknown Speaker 39:28 So we should finish up I guess they need to get Unknown Speaker 39:33 back their issues whether a black Navy will be it will end up being that there's something going on a magic Jedi about it. Because I can process now I'm trying to adopt going through what they have told me, they will not give me a black baby, they will not give me a dark, maybe they will give me a very light skin, you know. And I Unknown Speaker 40:20 just want to talk about Unknown Speaker 40:25 it without without being clear about the estimation phase, I'm saying that the black, I think black teenagers as well as black single mothers one of the last option to take teenage girls. Because adoption is seen, first of all, fairly recently, black children were mistreated in the adoption process, right. And then lastly, segregated. There is now even with white parents wanting black babies. And still, even with black parents wanting black babies, there's still a large percentage of blacks who do not get adopted. So even if I say I'm going to have this baby, and I can deal with it, the last place that I will be both advised by my parents and community and even in my own head, is put them up for adoption, they will not be raising another issue that has not it's not Unknown Speaker 41:21 a big deal, Unknown Speaker 41:22 and they have no opportunity to replace. Unknown Speaker 41:27 It doesn't feel it, that's a real option for Black to Black women to put up. Unknown Speaker 41:34 One more thing I was told by the black social worker, that there were plenty of black, two parent families waiting, praying for black babies, but I can't I Unknown Speaker 41:48 just said, I don't feel that's what we can attend to children that we have, that we give birth to in our community, even if you do she's been teaching my child to have a baby. And I hate her and I hate the big and all that. I don't think that that's an option that she should I don't think that's what she should. So it's not within our community, you don't feel but there is a question, right? I mean, there is widespread parents, white families, and black children when I'm walking, but I'm saying that if I say now that people question and I would suspect that we don't want the children to go out there into the unknown institution. And that has to be respected. Unknown Speaker 42:34 I'm going to go through before they even Unknown Speaker 42:35 get to a black family because the institution, you know, might not be Unknown Speaker 42:40 black children, my blood over there. If somebody to be on time to take care of themselves. Well, she's got to take yourself to the boys, man. But I'm not putting the child into that process. That's because Unknown Speaker 42:57 you have to be Unknown Speaker 42:59 your pride. Unknown Speaker 43:02 Yeah, but I mean, you have to think about the way you you perceive institutions is the way other people perceive institutions, institutions justice. No, I don't Unknown Speaker 43:14 personally but as a white person, you know, human person will be hostile against you as also as excellent person who's not lying. But your institution precedes you, for they know how much you pay for they see that you're wanting them to treat you differently. And you have a goal as a community, as a community Unknown Speaker 43:34 of women, so your community doesn't view institutions, institutions and corporations Unknown Speaker 43:44 and vice versa. is really Unknown Speaker 43:50 not evident. Not a chart but it's Unknown Speaker 43:54 not the only use out there ever think about private private agency, private adoption. Agencies right. Agencies right now also, we're not places where people are giving babies because private agencies asked you to abandon the baby with the expectation that it will get a good home and depending on who you are, you will have a different expectation that it will get a good Unknown Speaker 44:20 feel. Thank you very much. We can continue. I didn't get any sheets yet. Is there any pay