Unknown Speaker 00:00 Have questions, they can come up to the mic and ask them and the panelists can answer them here, you should say, who you are directly directing your question to if it's more than one person say that, and please, no announcements now. Speak into it. And let's see. Unknown Speaker 00:21 I still think there Unknown Speaker 00:22 is affectations division between right wing and left wing. Really, I have heard a lot of people Unknown Speaker 00:33 say, Oh, that is not what can be done. Period. What can be done today? Unknown Speaker 00:41 Remember COINTELPRO? I think in unity there is strength is it should be, I think in unity, there is strength and to the extent that we don't have unity, we're divided against ourselves. And we really have to work to overcome those divisions. Unknown Speaker 01:06 What strategy? Unknown Speaker 01:07 Well, I think we have imagined. Unknown Speaker 01:20 So glad to because the measures that are going on right now I can do what it says, recommended way to see a solid version of the current life example, let's say George Miller's book on fire, if your phone's working last year for my channel, and give me some advice for deploying this in house sister. Unknown Speaker 01:53 Which as well as Unknown Speaker 02:00 the dangers in addition to the cottage, or jewelry, that we have the city over your chance to back up and get that cash. Now, you know, what I'm asking somebody? How do you know to position because that actually teaches you to be like, leading up to that Unknown Speaker 02:25 do? I really think that that is an extremely significant political question, which speaks very much to the real problems facing the feminist movement in the 1980s. Now, basically, I think that just to very quickly try to answer that. I definitely say that the feminist movement should work within the Democratic Party, and then that that becomes our focus. What I said is that I think that we need to become a unified movement, an organized movement with an agenda in the same way as there is an agenda waiting for us by the new right before this coming to read for the year for sure, that we need to know what that agenda would be as a feminist movement, that we need to have a presence and, and a and a political cloud in the sense that we already have here. I think the basic problem is that we don't have an organization, the level of feminist consciousness in the United States today is enormous. You know, you look at the polls, and you ask people, men and women alike, what they think about an era or what they think about abortion, that there are overwhelming support, particularly on the question of abortion in terms of what what the right of the woman is in terms of her own individual choice. So the point here is that it seems to me that that that there are two levels here. One is that there is a significant political populism in the United States that can be defined as feminists, and that we have yet to figure out a way to use that organizationally. Now, I think that proof in some sense of some of a conflict that does exist within the movement today within the mainstream movement was when the choice was put between Raven and harder now said that they would not support either one of those Saturday's nationally that was there that that was their position. Now, there are many people at feminists who disagree with that decision. But politically, it was enormously significant that for the first time, I mean, that is mainstream feminism. There was a statement that said the liberal will go to arena, the points of view are women are insignificant and insufficient. And that was a national statement. It seems to me that these are the beginnings of price to organize politically and effectively with what already exists as a global movement. to capture the new right Unknown Speaker 05:17 there is right now Unknown Speaker 05:24 already written six executive orders that will unleash the FBI and the CIA's operation chaos. It is not yet been made an executive order, but it exists. The operation chaos was suspended after the Rockefeller were allegedly suspended. I mean, all these things, you know, secret. So we don't know if they really suspended it. In addition, I want to point out one thing, the FBI shredded, literally hundreds of 1000s of pages of documents, which we then in the case of the American Friends Service Committee, versus Webster got an injunction. And last year, we got an injunction to stop the FBI from shredding all of these records. So there's a lot we don't know, but allegedly was suspended. Now there is this executive order. There's a tremendous move afoot to, you know, unleash the CIA and the FBI. Again, when I said before, in answer to your first question, I just had to recover. I'm sorry, I wasn't up for the question so quickly. Remember, COINTELPRO. I mean, I think it's very important to think in terms of what Zilla just said, which is that we really need to think about the greatest united front kinds of organizing everything which divides us at this point, you know, serves them. And I was very distressed this week to see an article, for example, in off our backs, which said, you know, that the right wing of the mobilization for survival refuse to pass an abortion resolution, well, that doesn't happen to be true. There was a tremendous amount of tension over it. But the mobilization for survival passed a very vigorous, pro choice resolution. And what that kind of thing does before we get the full story, well, already you see it creates how we can support the mobilization for survival. My question at the time was, why on earth should the mobilization survival deal with this anti nukes problem? You know, this maybe doesn't even belong here. I think we need to, to think about strategies which preserve unity in places where we can work together. Of course, we have lots of problems. The left men are ridiculous in their sexism and absurd in their attitudes. Maybe we can never work with them. Maybe we can work with them on some things. But but these are all questions of coalition building, the attack against us is coming from from all sides. And we have of course, made a tremendous, tremendous gains, we can't lose them by battling each other. That's part of their program. Unknown Speaker 08:33 I personally have discovered certain signs of racism within the women's movement, and our food program. If you look over this morning, you will notice that there is such a small percentage of women that a question must be asked is the women's movement, skipping oh, we're not reaching out to those who are authenticated with various meetings that I have been taken apart. And within the last three years, I have established that many women, Caucasian women assume that they are superior. Assume that any thought raised by anyone or mastered the fact is subordinate to this. And in fact, in many cases, I'm seeing women of color show up at a women's movement meeting and never return again. And I want to make a very specific example. I am a member of the National Organization of Women. I have and I have consistently been, I am consistently all over the world in terms of getting newsletters and not one person has sent me a phone call. Why are you not attending our meetings? Now? What can we do to cancel racism with the women's movement so that we form a united One of the main goals was trying to help. In response Unknown Speaker 10:12 to that, let me tell you a story. I'm very first of all, let me say I'm very pessimistic. I'm much more pessimistic, actually, in spirit than my talk says I'm hopeful, which is why I wasn't as pessimistic as I could be, at times. I participated in some of you here may have done so in the New England Women's Studies Association meetings in Boston. And the topic of the conference was a working conference on racism. And one of the interesting things that happened was the Asian Women's Caucus ran a workshop to dispel a lot of the myths about Asian women. And the Caucasian women sitting in the back, one Caucasian woman turned to the other one and said, if that was a group of black women sitting up there, I'd be afraid. In other words, the stereotype of black women as dangerous, as Demian is very present in the minds of even women who voluntarily come to a booking conference on racism. Yes, very often, the question has been raised by black women, are we going to be trading white male paternalism, white female, maternal ism. And their experience, unfortunately, has been precisely that, that what people have to understand about racism. And this is very, very difficult for people to grasp this, when we're trying to decide which dimension of stratification has, you know, is the worst one. Okay? We very often miss the historical realities that govern one particular one. For my analysis, racism is the controlling factor through which everything else must be seen when understanding the experience of black people in America, because racism has created two separate communities, which have black and white women have not lived in the same social world, they have not seen the same troubles. And so how in the world are you going to have communication when you live in a segregated society, and you think of how often when black women must engage in struggle on behalf of their children on behalf of their communities, when you start looking at the various agents of social control where black women live, and we're talking about where they live their everyday existence, to school teacher in the segregated schools, that are engaged in psychological and cultural genocide against their children, who are these people who are the policemen and now police, women who patrol black communities in a colonial manner. And in Boston, we have a new thing called Proposition two and a half, which will effectively eliminate every single female police officer from the Boston Police officer and all but I think four or five blacks, black males, every woman, regardless of her color will be gone from the police force next month. And nearly every black male because he's passed. This This has passed because they are using seniority last hire first fire. This is the same for all school districts in Massachusetts, you know about the trouble we have with the racism in Boston, and the problems with busing? The principal battle lines over the 12 years of struggle before that school desegregation decision. Were black women on one side leading the forces for desegregation and white women on the other who are the leaders of the forces for segregation. It is important for white women to remember they are white and look at the history of white people in relationship to black people. It I can't stress it enough. Students have asked me why in my race relations course, I do not treat women as a minority group. And I do not treat women as they might already in my race relations course because I believe I can teach me race relations courses in the same concepts and theories and never mentioned them. And it's very important that if the feminist movement is going to get rid of racism in the movement, they have to understand it thoroughly as an historical and structural phenomenon and what it means in terms of the exploitative, exploitative social distance that exists between black and white people in a racist society. Unknown Speaker 14:59 You For florists. And my role Unknown Speaker 15:10 was to not only Unknown Speaker 15:17 accept requests for this as a way of improving your credit, that I'm applying to No. Less than four years. And now, another time. There are a lot of issues. I think I got Unknown Speaker 15:37 it, say Unknown Speaker 15:39 marking things. In other words, like you're hoping that things will happen that I would have, I would still have the same extension as on here. Again, I have no certainty that I don't feel the way that we're saying, hi. I don't think I don't need to worry too much and take the art class and this class. Now. I know it's tempting to say last time, and then you come along and change as many, as you see, is going to some of your arrest. doesn't go very far. You want to take any question? You want to take Unknown Speaker 16:44 I? Well, you know, yes, I did. Know It wasn't funny. It's a very important question, a very important statement. I think I feel you know, I think that it's politically incorrect to feel pessimistic. Unknown Speaker 17:06 That's all. So I feel optimistic. Now, what I feel optimistic about in terms of the women's movement, is that if you look at the history, our history as women as politically active women, one of the things that you see over and over and over again, is women saying, okay, you know, the primary issue is the war, the primary issue is the depression. What I think is different now is women are saying, we don't have to choose, it's not an either or situation. We have for a very long time said later for us. And we're not saying later for us, we're saying we have to fight on every front. And we have to find our allies for each of those friends wherever we can. So in terms of the women's movement, I don't feel it's a treadmill. Quite the contrary. I think that why the radical right is so hysterical about us is that we're not on a treadmill, and that all over America, in Topeka, Kansas, in Detroit. in Urbana, Illinois, and a small towns and villages of the Gulf states, women are organized for their own needs as never before. And in addition, we had up the great peace organizations, we had up the ECLC, the emergency civil liberties committee, and we had up rank and file organizations that take care of our children, our neighborhoods, our communities, and we're taking care of ourselves, and we're doing it all together, I feel very optimistic. Unknown Speaker 18:55 Excuse me, I just I just wanted to say one thing very briefly, which is that earlier when I spoke and I mentioned the fact that it seemed to me that the major offensive against the feminist movement was because the feminist movement as a whole here, meaning here, not your more radical factions of it, but the mainstream part of the women's movement has been radicalizing its demands that, um, I think it really matters to ask what part of the women's movement you're speaking of when, when you try to assess where we are in 1981, as opposed to 1969 or 1971. And the fact of the matter is, clearly we've changed I would hope that we have developed enormously, which I think we have. The fact of the matter is, is that some of the factions within the women's movement that were necessary for its development, have redefined themselves in relationship to a strategy that has to become redefined if you really live in your political world. So that There is much discussion right now about is the women's movement alive? Is it dead? Is it dying? The point here is that there are really multiple arguments about that issue. It seems to me that going back to the question that blancher asked earlier, why is it that the anti feminism is so central to the aspect of 1980? Politics? I would argue that it is because feminism as a consciousness and as a politics is struggling to a new level of political clarity. And just very briefly, if you look at the arguments that were put forth in 1978, from the Houston meeting, funded by the government, it was your mainstream feminist movement, the demands that they listed, what it was that they wanted from the government, all right, basically, they were absolutely revolutionary demands an end to sexist education, and end to double discrimination against minority women, fair employment and open employment for anyone who wants it, the demands went 17 warmth. And basically, there would be nothing in there that anyone could really disagree with if you were interested in women being able to live human lives. So the argument about where are we and what are our choices? I think our choices are limited. To the extent that we don't we don't have the option any longer not to deal with the reality of mainstream politics, because that's where the new right has moved the politics. And so what we have to figure out is a way to be a feminist movement in relationship to that and to be able to move beyond Unknown Speaker 21:49 that. Why white plantation owners are really going to be watching on the ranch, and why we're gonna sabotage teachings in order to consider selling. Unknown Speaker 22:28 Yeah, I think I made a glancing reference to that in my statement, the fact that the issue of family life I have a Carruthers has a nice article called The War on African family hood. And where she essentially looks at the history of black people in America. They can't hear you. I'm a Carruthers has an interesting article called The War on African family input. And her essential statement is that understanding why people's impression in the United States or in the new world, but particularly in the United States, because it took some funny twists and turns is tantamount to understand you can use the metaphor of a direct assault on traditional struck family structures and relationships between males and females, historically, for the entire, you know, three and a half centuries all the way through from when they first came, until presently with the attack that was printed by Moynihan and so that, but what happened during slavery was essentially that you have a domestic human was a problem, critical political problem, because it was not until the 1970s. And this is a problem. It wasn't until the 1970s, that you begin to get a revisionist history of slavery that uses the perspectives of the slaves in terms of their reality. In other words, what actually happened to them, how they perceived it, and what they did, to organize against it. And the dimensions of slave resistance, were very one of those was in the area of the family, other than was in the area of slavery visually, you're just beginning to get a literature on that now, but in both cases, it was to maintain a community life separate from that of the master. And part of that was to maintain some sort of family life then involved, you know, mother, father and children or mother figure father figure, not necessarily biological mother with fatherhood, but those relations in relationship to children in the quarters because the slave master did not want it. And he did try to separate it. Unknown Speaker 24:47 Anyway, one can, can we allow this like, why people were lagging our family yet? Even our dogs I Unknown Speaker 25:05 think part of the problem is that we do not as feminists have a preacher with a TV show that brings in $50 million. Unknown Speaker 25:18 I think that is a major component of it. One of the whole fundamentals, this whole fundamental, fundamentalist complex is a real problem. For instance, you can hear me, for instance, I think I forget which News Magazine did a poll where they were trying to say that, quote, unquote, religiosity does not coincide with these political attitudes that are attacking us now. But one of the problems with the classification that they use for fundamentalist, meaning Jerry Falwell and his ilk is that all black folks are included in that category. Or if you don't even think about the labels of Black Legion, yet Jerry Falwell would never last two seconds in most black carpets. I mean, that is the kind, you know, the whole difference in attitude. And I think it was a way of trying to say, look, these folks really not so bad after all, and almost giving, you know, fall well, and his cruise and credibility, but we literally do not have the same kind of media power that those folks do. And that is has a big effect. There are some areas of the country where that's all people get on TV. And that's frightening. Unknown Speaker 26:32 Do we not we affirm that we are also the same? I think we are used Unknown Speaker 26:37 sometimes that we are almost Unknown Speaker 26:39 fit before Unknown Speaker 26:41 and my mother, Unknown Speaker 26:44 and they don't Unknown Speaker 26:45 use is big, and it's worthwhile. David, while so women are Unknown Speaker 26:54 really into dilemmas facing women. Unknown Speaker 26:58 Do you have a family except for your quirky people? That's a fair Unknown Speaker 27:07 question. One more comment. I think it's important also to realize that some that there is a literature in the feminist movement that has done precisely that, I think many for dance article in The New York Times not too long ago, dealing precisely with this issue of the family. And how do feminists make the statement surrounding family without trying to sound like, you know, we're just accommodating the opposition. But I think it's important to realize that people aren't, and in fact, most feminist issues are pro family. That's the problem. And that's why they're attacking us so bad. I think Unknown Speaker 27:48 ties into the idea of random water leaks. And seems like so far, a lot of what you're talking about combat this biological freedom. Unknown Speaker 28:06 That's what we talk about, we say radical, and Unknown Speaker 28:11 that seems to be the game of Unknown Speaker 28:17 radical meditations are actually done. Unknown Speaker 28:29 When I, when I argue that I think that mainstream feminism is becoming more radical primarily, I mean, here that it is that it is focusing on the patriarchal base of this society, which has really not been a recognized formation of the thought that really has a that has been part of mainstream feminism. Now, let me just very quickly, I can argue that the the identity of women as a sexual class, or I had really through 67 days now into the 80s, that there is much more of an identification of women as a sexual class, you need them to be theoretically a radical feminist to identify with that reality. And that has a lot to do with the changes in women's lives black and white women's lives, but even more significantly, white women's lives because black women have been in the labor force married women in the labor force longer than white married women have been in disproportionate numbers. My argument here is is merely to say that the radicalizing faction of mainstream feminism is because a majority of married women do work in the labor force are also mothers in this society, that the conflicts that are arising out of that reality the reality they live in their daily lives. It's coming into clear and starker contradiction in terms of their understanding their death. Initially, first within patriarchal society as mothers meaning here that they faced was the double day of work. So the point here is that that that the although that there has been the possibility of understanding this historically, never before, has there been the real capacity in daily life activity for a majority of women to understand the patriarchal base of the organization of their lives, and that that then can be seen pretty clearly in terms of the demands now that mainstream feminists are making. Louder. Unknown Speaker 30:51 Via email nation or rely on us, because of the structure and Unknown Speaker 31:01 the structure Unknown Speaker 31:04 and whether or not where the stations are set up, man Unknown Speaker 31:22 I didn't get your question. Unknown Speaker 31:25 saucer, Unknown Speaker 31:26 maybe 1491. Unknown Speaker 31:34 noticed a good news, good news. Bad news. Bad news. Bad news. Something to do with Unknown Speaker 32:07 it if I understand your question, you're asking about how we structure in b2b conferences and so on feminism? And does it preclude grassroots organizing? If that's your question, I just would like to say there is an incredible amount of grassroots organizing. And you know, one of the things that I've been working on for a long time is political warfare. And that is the use and misuse of words and the use of our mass media to defraud us of the reality of the world that we live in. The mass media doesn't deal with us. And so we think we don't exist sometime, except when we come together like this. But in fact, all over the country. There is tremendous amounts of grassroots organizing, tremendous numbers of events, for a variety of reasons, all of which have feminist and family and woman loving part parts to them, and they don't get into the media. But let me assure you, I just came back from Los Angeles in Detroit, the amount of public activity outside of New York where we sometimes don't see it, which never gets into the media. Toledo is incredible. Iowa, we think of it as being nothing but a few pigs in a university where it's not one of those vigorous women's communities is in Iowa and Nebraska. There's a tremendous amount of grassroots organizing and it's up to us to celebrate it because they wiped it out. Like they wiped out everything else. You know, there's a mind strike going on. It's not on the front page of The Times only Poland is on the front page of the times have you noticed that it's called political warfare? Unknown Speaker 34:21 Miami to see from a very coordinated Jersey City woman who has an image of God right guys Unknown Speaker 34:43 well, it was close enough. Unknown Speaker 34:50 I'm going to walk you through that last summer at the Democratic Convention. because he already Could you please take a break? And if you have to wait, since I've been waiting for route 47 We have to restart. When I go to? Unknown Speaker 35:20 Well, a lot of that a lot of the turnout stuff is still being compiled particularly along class, not class, sexual lines and racial lines. And but but it is now known that the number of women who voted that that this that they voted disproportionately in favor of Carter, and that the turnout of women women in general was down greatly from earlier. Elections more likely that 23% Normally, women are higher voter turnout than men. The other the other interesting piece of data about the election turnout was that men of course vote I shouldn't say of course, but men did vote twice. Twice as often for Raven as for three quarters of the moon going? On. Louder. closer to the mic. Okay. Yes. Before we begin, I'd like to see you in a moment as Unknown Speaker 37:08 you were the last speaker, we're Unknown Speaker 37:12 gonna have a discussion between the panelists and maybe one or two, but if you're wanting to go on the left, and so the one we may not have on the left get that one man Unknown Speaker 37:37 troubles a week from my wife one, day one. Microsoft perception of this is really different. But it seems to me that particularly a portion of it, which I feel like is that one, divine feminine certification organized is a lack of consciousness. Feeling of intimidation by going forward is intended to be to very apologetic amendments and not to replace the clock and really militant ministers. You're quite right. I think the whole slogan of liberals pro choice type of rhetoric typically are going to take larger goals, say I'm going to walk up with like one. And now not only to make one priority, or really take a leadership scholar who Unknown Speaker 38:40 has taken maybe the GRE Unknown Speaker 38:42 comes first and all the marks for Congress to consider the extension we are extremely hostile for people who have felt like time may have started. Massachusetts? Unknown Speaker 39:01 Well, I think that your statement does does reflect a real problem. And when I said that, I think the problem isn't one of consciousness and more one of organizing, it wasn't to say that those are two totally separate things. And clearly, the the way that one chooses to organize does also have effect on the way that people think about the problems. When I when I say that what we need to do is find a way to politically organized around the questions. Part of that is being able to clarify what the real political issues are involved. And I think that there is said is that it is true that many feminists have found it difficult to really get into the fray over the issues of the real conflicts that do occur in the process of abortion. I mean, it isn't an easy political or moral or individual question, you know, on and on. I think most women know that. So that's the point though of them, how do you really work with that politically and really try to talk about what the true conflicts and problems are in the question of abortion rights, pro choice, etc, that that had something to do though with being able to lay an organizational base, I think that they are very much combined. Unknown Speaker 40:25 First of all. Unknown Speaker 40:41 And answer compared to, and she asked her, Are you laid out so likely to be like her? You ever wondered? What is it that you identify with? So, Unknown Speaker 41:10 I love Unknown Speaker 41:13 that I've taken in five of the issues that affect all our training, we all have. Unknown Speaker 41:30 I think if you say we don't have to choose, I think the choices with the rise of racism will be made. For us. That is precisely the problem with racism. One of the things that I did not say in my talk, but which becomes comes through very clearly in the research that I did on women who are full time activist, is it there's a simple problem of time budgets that most people get involved in struggle to very specific problems that they have, looking at people who are involved in struggle over a long period of time, they become involved in other issues and other movements as they begin to discover the larger structures that are oppressing. And the survival realities, and the geographic realities, will operate in such a way as to force most activist black women to focus on the racism struggles, because of the everyday life implications that and a lot of the women that I talked to made this point because they were very upset. Okay, on the one hand, they recognize a lot of the issues of the women's movement, the problem, they had problems with some of the middle class aspects that dealt with fluff, what they call the fluff, but the basic issues are about around work, abortion, especially the use of abortion, to discredit women from the struggles they made, the women that I talked to, and the data that I gathered was back. But five years ago, so there was a high that very good when you measured against today's consciousness five years later, and then the consciousness was there, their understanding of the women's issues was there, it was the additional time budget that was devised. So that the right the retrenchment of racism. And the more top the the rise of more and more acute survival problems in the black community is not is going to make be the decisive factor because they will most likely go to meetings that will deal with issues of, you know, literally blood issues of other survival. And these are the activist women who felt that they should have a hand in setting the agenda of the women's movement, who felt they had something to teach other women because of their experience working full time, plus being activist full time understanding a variety of political structures that they were fighting against. And I'm talking about the professional activist net, but that the choice is very often were made for them in terms of who called them up and ask them for help. Direct help. Unknown Speaker 44:15 How do we deal with organizing and struggling? Okay, poor a lot of the sexism and I think this is the real damage that went ahead and did was that the report by discrediting black women the way it did and really blowing their images of strength into a an image that said, You're doing damage to the black community. Okay, on the one hand, those black ideologues who took on the issue who turned around and said to black women who doing too much getting the background, were the same folks that had a real practical problem because the reality It wasn't they were dealing with competent women who were very much involved in every facet of black light. And they had to turn around, tell them somehow get back in the kitchen. And so your middle class mainstream journals and Pauli Murray writes about this basically said black women should stay home and get out of the limelight, because it looks bad for the race, rather than because of any kind of basic patriarchal ideology. And so it became a more vicious and much more vicious, had a much more vicious impact. And as, as Angela Davis put it, in basically, the the stereotype turned black men against black women in a way that they had not been before that what. And so that was further exacerbated. So it's a real problem. Unknown Speaker 45:45 I would like to add one thing, you know, one of the things that's very important is that we break the kind of ghettoization of our commitments. And there is right now, a tremendously growing organization called the anti Klan movement. And the anti Klan movement is now operating in every single state in the union. And there are Klan activities, as you all know, not only in Connecticut, and New Jersey, but out on Long Island and Nassau County and Suffolk County. And one of the things feminists who want to really break this barrier should do, it seems to me and I don't mean to be prescriptive, but it's really available for all of us to work on, is to participate in the growing effort to stop violence at its source, I can give you statistics on the incredible kinds of violence that have been going on all over the country, but it is the anti Klan coalition that we could all participate in in some way. Unknown Speaker 47:05 On this point, as well, I think it's I think it's significant for feminists to recognize that there are some real parallels between the Moynihan Report of 65 and the poll, actual Family Protection Act of today. And that basically, in many ways, black married women who were in the labor force, doing what the white woman is supposedly doing for the family at the moment, that there are also ways that the structuring of the society has started also to change what the relationship is between black and white women. That's not to say that racism doesn't still function as an ideology. But it is to say that there are more common interests today between black and white women, when one looks carefully at the changes that have been going on, both in the black family and the white family. And that seems to be enormously significant for people who identify as feminists to really focus on in terms of trying to deal with the particular relationship of black and white women for the 1980s. Thank you very much. Unknown Speaker 48:16 I'm going to questions all but I hope that people can speak with you about why you Unknown Speaker 48:27 need to do a Docker for that. Sorry. There's a whole bathroom for where to be done. I'm sorry to say no. To even get into note taking on multiple levels in your company. Unknown Speaker 48:45 Whereas McIntyre, right over there, follow us. Follow everybody. Well, that was really steering right. Unknown Speaker 48:53 I'm glad your wife